Economic Scholar: Don’t Hike Minimum Wage

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According to David Neumark of the Center for Economics and Public Policy at the University of California, Irvine, politicians who want to help the poor should stop trying to jack up the minimum wage.

“Setting a higher minimum wage seems like a natural way to help lift families out of poverty. However, minimum wages target individual workers with low wages, rather than families with low incomes,” he wrote in a San Francisco Fed research paper. “Other policies that directly address low family income, such as the earned income tax credit, are more effective at reducing poverty.”

Neumark’s paper comes at a time when both of the leading Democratic presidential candidates have proposed raising the federal minimum wage. Hillary Clinton wants to raise it to $12 an hour; Bernie Sanders wants to see it raised to $15 an hour. There have also been private pushes for a raise, led by unions such as Fight for $15.

According to Neumark’s paper, very few of the nation’s poverty-stricken families rely – in any way – on a minimum wage income. In 57 percent of families who fall below the poverty line, no one works at all. On the other side of the coin, approximately half of all workers earning the minimum wage are under the age of 24. As it was always intended to be, the minimum wage marks a starting point for teenagers and other unskilled and uneducated employees. It is not intended to be the last rung on the ladder.

“Mandating higher wages for low-wage workers does not necessarily do a good job of delivering benefits to poor families,” Neumark wrote. “Simple calculations suggest that a sizable share of the benefits from raising the minimum wage would not go to poor families.”

Worse, minimum wage hikes can actually shut these low-income workers out of gainful employment altogether. Small businesses – local restaurants and the like – rely on cheap labor to keep costs low. Artificially increased wages force them to either cut staff or hike prices, a choice that puts them at an even greater disadvantage with national chains that have other ways of smoothing the wrinkles.

The fight for a higher minimum wage is not a fight for America’s poor; it’s a fight for America’s teenagers – the last people on the planet who need the taxpayers to boost their income. And with the age of automation creeping up on the country, Democrats should be careful about ushering in a policy that could eliminate millions of jobs overnight.

269 Comments
  1. matt says

    Neumark is an idiot let the government pay for it yea thats the answer.

    1. Kent2012 says

      probably should read this article once more…I believe that he suggested not raising the minimum wage and wrote nothing about the “government paying for it” whatever it is…

      1. glenn398 says

        Kent You need to reread what he is saying. He is saying since most don’t work and are on welfare wages don’t improve their standard of living. He is suggesting paying those on welfare more money to sit on their rear.

        1. Mark Lahti says

          No glenn you need to read the article again. You guys made me think I might have missed something. I went back and reread the article a couple of times and I can find nothing suggesting paying anybody anything more. Either your reading comprehension skills are nil or you are intentionally choosing to put forth a different message than the writer intended. Either way you are wrong and should probably do something to improve your reading comprehension skills.

          1. matt says

            What i was saying Kent Mark and Glenn giving unearned tax credits to people who pay little or no taxes, who ultimately pays for that you And me

        2. Kent2012 says

          Glenn I reread the short article, he may have a link to a more comprehensive piece that I have not read. The short article suggests that hiking the minimum wage is not a good idea for a couple of reasons…One thing he focused on was the fact that poor families would not be helped due to not having ANYone working in those families…then he went on to suggest that a bump in the minimum would probably not benefit those entry level workers due to businesses reaction to the mandatory increase, at least initially….That has been shown in a number of locations, most recently in the SeaTac area….

  2. Dan says

    Liberal policy is designed to do exactly the opposite of what is intended for. Nearly all of the small businesses will not be able to absorb such a law and will fall victim to the larger corporations.

  3. Phoebe Isley says

    It doesn’t take a scholar yet this scholar is saying what the majority of us already knew. Raising minimum wage? Just plain stupid forom any angle you look at it.

    1. MAHB001 says

      Stupid yes, until you look at if from a socialists angle…

      1. Uselessbastard says

        Or an educated macro economics angle with historical data to predict effects.

        1. MAHB001 says

          All the educated macro economics angled people have weighed in.

          Raising the minimum wage is just a socialist ploy, it will hurt far more people than it will help.

          1. Uselessbastard says

            Somehow I doubt your sources then — do you have links to ALL of the data and comments from ALL of the economics professors? Perhaps a list of counterpoints from different factions with a percentage that agree on the potential consequences?

            From what I can see, CPI and PPI show no historical correlation between increasing the minimum wage nominally and price inflation.

            Regardless, if we have 3% annual inflation, by definition, you should get a 3% wage hike to offset the additional cost of living. All else being equal, If you don’t get a cost of living increase, then your employer is arguably giving you a paycut instead… And if we followed that logic, minimum wage would already be over $10/hour

          2. MAHB001 says

            https://www.youtube.com/user/MrUniversity?v=oESAMwiF40c

            I suggest you do some of your own research rather than listening to the liberal progressive talking heads on TV.

            What the Government is doing is increasing the cost of goods via laws. That increase stops small businesses from entering the market because it is not cost effective. Bottom line, with an increase in the minimum wage, more businesses will go out of business because of the artificial dicking of business costs. That will represent a loss of minimum wage jobs, for us all.

            It is because of our BIG Socialist Government dicking with things that we have them lying to us about how great things are, lying about how many jobs are being created, and lying about the facts….

            The media is nothing more than Goebbels lying about how great things are going to be under communism. .

          3. Uselessbastard says

            *sigh*

            Considering the video you posted — you should watch it, because you obviously didn’t even understand my point. Since I do actually have a background in this subject matter, I will say it again.

            Historically, there has been no correlation between an increase in the average CPI (Consumer Price Index) nor the PPI (Producer Price Index) any time the minimum wage has been increased.

            That means, there has been no marginal price inflation outside of nominal when the minimum wage has been increased. You can look at the data yourself. They even have pretty graphs!

            You comments just show how little you actually understand about percentages and how our economy works. High school supply and demand economics doesn’t really cut it 😉 Regardless, my point is that the percentage of people who get a wage increase when the minimum wage increases a modest amount doesn’t statistically account for enough of the nation’s GDP to make a noticeable difference. Additionally, some of those monies will be ‘offset’ by a decrease in funds transfers from social welfare programs. I.E., some people who are working but also on government assistance will no longer require government assistance.

            Being that as it may, look at the PPI and CPI data, and let me know if you care to revise your uninformed opinion. Additionally, from a capitalist perspective, it’s better to have someone working than someone sitting on the couch. If even a minimum wage job lets someone be able to be live, regardless of if they are ambitious enough to educate themselves and find a higher paying job, they are not directly affecting my tax dollars. Understand? If you truly are a conservative, you’d accept that simple logic.

            And stop saying the government is socialist, you’re an idiot if you think that. The government does not own the means of production, ergo not a socialist establishment. Conversely, any government, by definition, is a social program that collects and redistributes wealth from the group. We’re just arguing as to the extent of which the government redistributes. If you stop the blatant pandering and buzz word fear mongering, we can have a legitimate discussion. Else, go back to school.

          4. MAHB001 says

            Sigh…..

            Your use of the highly manipulated and Government controlled indexes is a trick that I choose to no longer fall for. The CPI and PPI come from sources that manipulate the data to suit their purposes…

            They have been manipulated for so long that they are meaningless when it comes to the REAL world, and they can be used to prove or disprove just about anything.

            Your points are actually just a feeble attempt to confuse and obfuscate the REAL issues.

            And that REAL issue is that increasing the minimum wage is not going to help the poor, it will actually hurt the poor. There will be less minimum wage jobs and the INCREASE in costs will simply be passed on to the consumer, who lost their job because their Pizza shop went out of business because of Socialist Economic pukes doing whatever it takes to destroy Capitalism and push us further and further towards socialism.

            Sigh… again….

            Liberals have been following the agenda items listed in the book, “The Naked Communist” for YEARS now. The agenda items were designed to weaken Americas institutions, in preparation for the destruction of Capitalism and the institution of Socialism…. The Democrat Party has adopted the ENTIRE LIST, including number 15.

            15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

            Both political parties are now controlled by socialists. The Republican party elite (RINOS) are nothing more than liberals in conservative clothing.

            I am not an idiot to think that the Government is socialists. Our Government is no longer for the people, it is for the CONTROL of the people. That is socialism…..

            Our Government controls the MEANS of production via permits, fees, and laws… If you need an example study the Keystone pipeline….. Look at the land grabs by the BLM, and what the EPA is doing.

            sigh…. sigh….. and sigh…….

            You will not be able to prove anything that I say is wrong, so you will lower yourself to insults and trying to discredit me with some arrogant statement like above.

            As the good socialist you are, you know that the only way this socialist coup will happen is if it stays underground and undetected until it is too late. As the socialist Norman Thomas said…

            “The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

            I for one will not stand by and let this country fall to communism via small bits of socialism. And don’t tell me that I don’t know the difference between Communism and Socialism. There is a reason Socialism doesn’t exist in the REAL world and that is that it ALWAYS falls to some sort of communism…..

          5. ABO says

            Well thought out and well presented, MAHB, thank you for that.

          6. MAHB001 says

            No, thank you.

          7. glenn398 says

            So you don’t think there will be any affect from giving people a huge wage, what world do you live in. How about the fact that is you double the lower wage that everyone else above that will expect the same. So all if will do is raise prices and nothing gained except inflation. Quit living in a dream world as for every action there is a reaction.

      2. ABO says

        And why would any intelligent person do that, MAHB001?

        1. MAHB001 says

          If you understand your enemy, you can figure out ways to stop your enemy.

  4. worn out 123 says

    Democrats want the greatest number of people on the dole as possible. (So they will vote democrat.) One party rule is their goal. So our American economy suffers. So what difference at this point does it make?

    1. glenn398 says

      Worn out Read again what he is saying, most are on welfare and don’t work so an increase in wages makes no difference. All he wants to do is increase the payout to those type of people.

      1. worn out 123 says

        ” . . . .if you must raise it.” Never said I favored raising it to 12, or even 10 dollars an hour. I do not.

        1. glenn398 says

          I don’t think there should be such a thing as minimum wages as years ago we never had such a thing and didn’t have a problem. Where our real problem is allowing unrestricted amount of people to come to this country and our open borders. They destroy our wage base and of course heavy on the government dole programs. Proof is back in the 40s and 50s we didn’t have all these problems until the government started messing with the system.

          1. worn out 123 says

            It’s all politics. European leaders as well as our present administration decided to flood their nations with “undocumented democrats” to win every election for the next 100 years irrespective of how their citizenry or the nation itself suffered as a result. It worked. No republican has any chance to win the presidency now. Henceforth America has what Obama wanted; ONE PARTY RULE just as in China.

          2. glenn398 says

            You’re right but I can’t blame this total problem on the liberals as way back when Johnson was elected to the senate the republicans knew he won with votes from the grave. They said they didn’t want to raise a stink and so let him win. Johnson’s policies of huge welfare programs kick started us to where we are now. So just this one event that the republicans let pass brought us to where we are now. Today the liberal left along with the rhino republicans have the power and will continue us down this path until there is nothing left of this country as we used to know it.

          3. pineapple says

            If President Obama was supposed to help Americans achieve a better life for themselves, a new report confirms that his presidency has been an unmitigated failure. According to a new survey by Google, 62% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings.
            21%, sadly, don’t have a savings account at all.
            “It’s worrisome that such a large percentage of Americans have so little set aside in a savings account,” said financial analyst Cameron Huddleston. “They likely don’t have cash reserves to cover an emergency and will have to rely on credit, friends and family, or even their retirement accounts to cover unexpected expenses.”
            But how could that be? According to the mainstream media, Obama has managed to completely turn the economy around, restoring it to the lofty heights of the Bush administration. His economic policies have been an unqualified success that Hillary Clinton should be proud to run on. He is, in short, a king among men who will be remembered for driving the country through the worst recession since the Great Depression.
            But it’s odd that his administration and its champions could make such an argument in the face of so much contrary evidence. It’s true: America’s economy is certainly in better shape today than when Obama took office. But considering the depths of the recession, you could have put a trained monkey in the White House and found recovery by now.
            What’s remarkable is how slow that recovery was in getting here and how overstated the recovery has been. The media routinely ignores troubling statistics like the real estate slump; new home sales went to a 10 month low in September. Consumer spending was almost entirely flat in third-quarter reports, meaning the biggest American economic indicator is failing to promise a better future.
            Obama publicizes job growth, never failing to promote another consecutive uptick in employment. But this is the president playing games with reality; as conservatives have pointed out for years, this administration is desperate to hide the millions of Americans who have dropped out of the workforce altogether. They aren’t counted among the unemployed, making any betterment in that department highly suspicious.
            In the end, this isn’t about how disastrous Obama has been on the economy, it’s about how much better things could be right now. Instead of pursuing free market solutions that would stimulate the economy, Obama is trying to force clean energy regulations onto the states, a move that will cost thousands of jobs and hike electricity prices at the same time.
            Republicans are (rightly) distracted by terrorism at the moment, but there is ample room to bring the economy back to the forefront of this election. The next president needs to unshackle the private sector and stop taxing America’s job creators out of business. Safety doesn’t begin and end with the destruction of ISIS; economic instability is a looming disaster for millions.
            – See more at: https://www.fixthisnation.com/conservative-breaking-news/obamas-economy-leaves-millions-without-savings/#sthash.P3haGdmK.dpuf

          4. glenn398 says

            You’re right on there plus Obama has been encouraging people to go on the government dole and even advertising it in South America

          5. pineapple says

            Saul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today…….

            Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

            Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, Ca
            Education: University of Chicago
            Spouse: Irene Alinsky
            Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

            Anyone out there think that this stuff isn’t happening today in the U.S.?

            All eight rules are currently in play

            How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

            There
            are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able
            to create a social state. The first is the most important.

            1) Healthcare = Control healthcare and you control the people

            2) Poverty
            = Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are
            easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing
            everything for them to live.

            3) Debt = Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

            4) Gun Control = Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

            5) Welfare = Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)

            6) Education = Take control of what people read and listen to “take control of what children learn in school”.

            7) Religion = Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools

            8) Class Warfare
            = Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more
            discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the
            support of the poor.

            Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

            Alinsky
            merely simplified Vladimir Lenin’s original scheme for world conquest
            by communism, under Russian rule. Stalin described his converts as
            “Useful Idiots.” The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which
            they have seized power and control. It is presently happening at an
            alarming rate in the U.S.

            If people can read this and still say everything is just fine…they are useful idiots.

            “It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.”

          6. glenn398 says

            We are well on our way to completing everyone of those requirements.

          7. Francisco Machado says

            Socialism is feudalism on a national scale.

          8. ABO says

            Well done, pineapple, well done . Thank you.

          9. iamcurious says

            Bravo! If we had merely taken the losses in 2008, the economy would have healed on its own. They have done nothing more than put off the day of reckoning, and it will be much worse when it gets here. The left-right paradigm is a false one. The greatest enemy of the American people is elected politicians in Washington, DC. They must all GO!

          10. Kent2012 says

            yes sir and what has been spent on the war on poverty ?? 18 Trillion and counting ?? then observe the poverty level….whoa it is still the same…some one’s strategy is failing…not only does welfare in this country need a major overhaul, but we are in desperate need of a president and when we get one that president and the adults in the legislature need to end the “global welfare” program…jerks like those in palestine and other countries, in the middle east as well as africa, need to get their acts together without our financing them or taking their “refugees”(sic) into our country because of some guilt that an illegal alien from kenya is trying to lay on us…too bad that the clowns in the democrapo party are such candy panties that they support this clown and his rag loving communist concepts..

          11. olf says

            There will never be a replacement for the character of truth and righteousness. Those who want power are wicked and care nothing for human being. Look at the UN, mrs Clinton, mr obarry, and many other organizations / countries whom clearly are more interested in self power and resources than it’s people. Africa should be at the pinnacle of the countries most wealthy / healthy. Oil, gold, silver, diamonds, land, wildlife, water and all sorts of resources to draw from. Some one is keeping them in the back woods of intellect. They need true leaders of compassion, not prideful tyrants like those in our top government positions.

          12. gregsmom says

            I think that a big part of the problem is that women on welfare get paid more for having more children. It should work the other way: the more children you have, the less welfare you get.

          13. glenn398 says

            You’re right, the same if you rewarded your kids every time they did something bad. That is the major reason we have such huge ghetto’s, built by rewarding women to breed without a father.

    2. olf says

      The problem with this dumb idea is. #1 it’s a leftist road to further destruction. # 2 When it go’s up, so does food, rent, gas, taxs, etc. It always hurts the people they are telling it will help. Those pushing this dumb propaganda will not be hurt. If gas doubles they can afford it. Same with the rest of the costs. #3 Is that it eliminates a training wage to hire “train” people so they can learn the job. #4 Anyone who falls for their lie doesn’t know how the economy system must work. Messing with numbers you know nothing about will be unforgiving. Numbers don’t lie, wicked people lie.

      1. worn out 123 says

        There has never appeared to me a shortage of wickedness or wicked people, btw.
        EVERYONE has a beginning to their work life. 95% of us do not learn (by practice) the entire basics of HOW to work. Hopefull the concept is given most of us by parents, but, generally without much practical application. This is a great advantage of entering the military (it is not a place for misfits to be “reformed”, however). After I learned HOW to work and accept frequent instruction and supervision I was permitted to attend a school. Didn’t have time to learn much, however, the OJT that followed honed my skills and as a natural end result I eventually gained invaluable leadership skills. decades I briefly attend a business college and it was a breeze due to my didactic training & all my years of experience. Was my pay low initially? Yes, indeed! Was the low pay and hard work worth the effort. Yes, indeed!
        Raising the minimum wage just a bit too high will eviscerate this time tested training procedure outside the military, as well as crushing some businesses. Where will the multitudes of young learn how to work then?

    3. gonzales27 says

      Dems love welfare,LBJ invented it. Keeps voters in their voting base

    4. ABO says

      They know, worn out 123, that when the people become completely dependent on the government, the government controls them completely.

  5. junkmailbin says

    the affect raises prices for the low income workers. Big box and fast food also go up negating the raise.
    Hilary the elite stores prices are so highMoochie do not feel the effect since

  6. Ivy says

    Why should someone flipping burgers be making $15/hour? Paramedics don’t even make that to start, and they save lives!!!!

    Low wage jobs aren’t meant to support families, they are mainly for teenagers and first jobs. If people want a job that can actually support a family, then get some training/schooling and get a better job. Raising minimum wage everywhere is a huge mistake.

    1. glenn398 says

      Ivy when you have the lowest I.Q. producing the majority of the kids now for decades there just isn’t enough jobs for that level of intelligence.

      1. olf says

        If you look at a healthy citizenry, being a people of honor and contentment is much more valuable than the highest paying positions. The steps of learning and growing in job skills can never be over looked or skipped. That is a recipe for failure whether short term or long term, either way spells failure. The big government culture has lied to our people, making them believe short cuts will get you there faster. Short cuts in character will destroy you. There are no quick ways to intelligence and character. We learn by experience and sobriety, not half baked ideas of the wicked teachers. The word “learn” is very important. Those who teach / preach other wise are liars. The very worse way of life, is allowing government agencies to think for you. That is a sure fired way to complete destruction. Thank you for your input, you have some points. There just so much more truth to the subject than many understand or want to learn. It is not superficial training that makes ones life complete. God Bless your path. Thanks for your time.

        1. glenn398 says

          We have spent over 17 trillion alone on Johnson’s great society not counting all the other government give away’s. The results of all these government give away’s is we have more on the government dole today then working. The liberals however say the answer to that problem is we need to spend more money to correct this problem. If you had the same policy with your own children you would be a fool to ever expect that they would ever amount to anything.

          1. olf says

            True. Free is never free. There is always strings attached. Someone is paying for that free. I find it amazing that people like Obama can tell people to go after the top 1% and they believe it. He is the 1%. Their plan is to keep the masses distracted while they stick it too the masses. Hard to believe they have dumbed so many down to buy the lie.

          2. glenn398 says

            The masses are now the minority and it is now impossible to outvote those on the government dole. How anyone could believe you can help anyone unwilling to help themselves is beyond me. I guess to a majority at the time bought those programs but too late those paying for these programs realized it was making them poor along with the rest. Before all these give away programs started in the mid 60’s it only took the husband working to support a family but as taxes rose it became necessary for the wife to go to work to stay middle class Think today the only way to stay middle class is if you put your kids to work also.

          3. olf says

            Those of us that have gone back to the word of God, “The Bible” has found the freedom through the truth of God’s perfect plan. If His principle’s are not followed in your life, you are doomed. His principles, promises and blue print are true and He keeps them. Without His leading nothing else will work. I have learned this by trial and tested by fire. We must learn to accept correction through truth. He opened my hearts eyes to become honest with myself and God. My life is now completely about following His principles and statues that is the foundation in truth. It all starts and ends with His truth. Liberty, truth and freedom comes only through Him. God Bless you Glenn. Amen

          4. Uselessbastard says

            Which god? Did not the Christian god promote giving all your wealth to the poor and the needy?

          5. olf says

            There is only one God, Father & Creator. The same God you will answer to as well. At that time “Every knee will bow and every mouth will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all.” May God Bless your path to truth. Amen

          6. Uselessbastard says

            Replying with New testament hearsay isn’t much of an answer. There are billions of people who are not of the Christian faith.

          7. John Phillips says

            That is true.
            Look at the economic circumstances and compare with Christian faith countries.
            Where would you rather live?

          8. Uselessbastard says

            That’s a very narrow minded view point you have. I could remind you about the Dark Ages in Europe whilst China and the Islamic Empire were the ones with the higher standard of living and technological Achievement… However, for the sake of this discussion I will acquiesce to your supposition that ‘now’ is the only thing that matters. Being that as it may, a good portion of the
            European Union no longer identifies as Christian (56% population of total), but rather have an affinity of Spiritual or Deistic. Here’s a bunch where the vast Majority are not ‘Christian’ yet still have a very high standard of living…

            France: 40% identify as Atheists or Agnostic, 27% Spiritual, only 27% believing in a God.
            Czech Republic: 37%, 44% and 16% respectively
            Sweden: 34%, 45% and 18%
            Netherlands: 30%, 39%, and 28%
            Estonia: 29%, 50% and 18%
            Norway: 29%, 44% and 22%

            Outside of the EU, but in the English Zone, a few points of interest…
            Affiliation with Christianity fell below 50% in both New Zealand and Australia, as of the 2013 census. Some have even identified as ‘Jedi’ and ‘Pastafarian’ 😉

            And if you want to argue about Christianity as being the ‘driving force’ in prosperity, then all I have to do is go to the Asianic areas:

            Japan has only 2.3% of their population associating with Christianity, and 51% claiming not to be religious.
            Korea only has 28% Christianity, 46% no religious affiliation.

            And to argue against Islam being a limiting factor on General prosperity, I.E., if you were Muslim, and obviously didn’t have to worry about a state sponsored religion hampering your way of life… Here’s a few Islamic countries that have a higher gross household income than most ‘Westernized’ countries:

            Kuwait: $40,854
            Quatar: $26,555
            Bahrain: $24,633

            And to add insult to injury on your line of thought; virtually all South America identify predominantly with Christianity and we refer to most of them as 3rd world nations.

            Would you care to retract your ‘point’ on this matter, or am I missing something?

          9. pineapple says

            If Muslims are so happy with their standard of living, why are they fleeing to the U.S.?

            ” Here’s a few Islamic countries that have a higher gross household income than most ‘Westernized’ countries:

            Kuwait: $40,854
            Quatar: $26,555
            Bahrain: $24,633″

            Are these average incomes, which include the incomes of rich oil barons? If so, the incomes of the masses are much lower.

            A German’s View on Islam – worth reading. This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.

            A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

            ‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’

            ‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’

            ‘We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.’

            ‘The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’

            ‘The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.’

            ‘The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?

            ‘History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.’

            ‘Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’

            ‘Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa, too, while the Lord’s Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.’

            ‘In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.’

            ‘In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.’

            ‘As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts – the fanatics who threaten our way of life.’

            Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand.

            Extend yourself a bit and send this on. Let us hope that thousands world-wide read this, think about it, and send it on before it’s too late, and we are silenced because we were silent!!

          10. Uselessbastard says

            YES! Let’s cherry pick only the situations relevant to your narrative whilst ignoring anything else that may refute or make your assumptions moot! You wan’t to end hate and war? Educate your children, teach them languages, then let’s have sex until everyone is the same color. Sorry man, Islam is no worse than Christianity. And You can replace both of those nouns with any other arbitrary religious demographic.

          11. gonzales27 says

            One is not needy if they do not want to work and earn a living but prefer to remain on the public dole.

          12. Uselessbastard says

            But they are working! And they are poor! Did Those nazarene just take government handouts when they took Roman Bread? Wait, that doesn’t make sense. Jesus must have ignored them.

          13. Uselessbastard says

            By definition, the masses are the ‘majority’. History lesson; most of these programs were enacted to replace a rapidly growing (and arguably corrupt) Union membership. You could, return collective bargaining rights to the people for both public and private sectors and see how it goes…

          14. olf says

            Why are you late troll.???

          15. Uselessbastard says

            Such a wise and informed response, yet you didn’t even attempt to answer my question. Also, your grammar is impeccable.

          16. glenn398 says

            Yes by definition you are right but my definition was that the paying masses are not the majority anymore.

          17. Uselessbastard says

            That is more of a sign of income inequality on a graduated tax system than anything else. If all of the income is skewed to the 1%’ers, then that’s where the majority of the revenue will come from.

          18. glenn398 says

            The problem is they keep raising when they consider the poverty level and so they are cutting out a huge amount of people that should be paying some taxes. Number wise the rich are very few so adding them to the numbers of tax payers still leaves you with the majority not paying any taxes. I believe if you live in a country you should contribute to the function of that country as you sure benefit from all the government functions.

          19. Uselessbastard says

            The calculation has been pretty static since 1963; with an adjustment that takes government benefits into account starting in 2010.

            “The U.S. Census Bureau determines poverty status by comparing pre-tax cash income against a threshold that is set at three times the cost of a minimum food diet in 1963, updated annually for inflation using the Consumer Price Index, and adjusted for family size, composition, and age of householder. “Family” is defined as persons living together who are related either by blood or marriage.”

            The calculation is pre-tax; so if the poverty rates have increased, it’s due to rising costs of living and stagnate wages. This would allude to a corporate/business issue rather than government action. I.E, if less people were at the lowest tax tier, then you would have a more even distribution of tax revenue.

          20. glenn398 says

            Government action has a huge addition to the cost of both products and the constant increase of taxes. Sales tax alone goes from 6% to over 11% depending on the state you live in. Property tax even when the valuation went down the taxes still went up. So most of the blame goes to government who keeps printing money that when that huge amount is released into the public will cause a huge inflation problem.

          21. Uselessbastard says

            Stay on topic, this is about the minimum wage and inflation. Look at the CPI and PPI data, because from your other comments about ‘printing money’ and property taxes, you obviously don’t understand economics.

          22. glenn398 says

            You want to throw figures out without setting what the standard is. Saying a family means nothing as a family can be two or it can be any figure above that. Before all this government dole people did what they could afford but today we can do whatever we please and if we can’t make it by working then good old uncle Sam will come to our rescue and at the same time cry about needing a raise without putting in any effort to improve ourselves. That kind of thinking is what got us here in the first place and you post all the charts you want, reality will kill all your charts.

          23. pineapple says

            After reading this post, I have concluded that your tag line is appropriate.

          24. Uselessbastard says

            Yes, let’s try an insult since you have nothing of substance to back your comments up with.

          25. John Phillips says

            It is very hard to give a poor person more than the self esteem and independence the gift robs them.
            I remember a quote from years ago that it takes government about $40,000 a year to create a $10,000 job.
            If by magic all the the non tax payers were removed from that system (think they all found good jobs and started paying taxes) just think of all the disruption in big government when there were no people who qualified for the services.
            Oh wait a minute. All the workers would still come to work and staff the programs and administrators would be asking for more money so they could hire more people to go look for poor people who qualified for the “free” services.

            In the real world there is no such thing a free for a high demand item. The closest we get is when there is a surplus byproduct but then the byproduct usually is close to free because it is in less demand than the main product.

            Lets all sign up for the free education if hillary is elected. We should all be PHDs

            This is not a handout the the students. It is a handout to the education system.
            Like the teachers union. Did the teachers union give money to hillary? Is this a way for hillary to pay them back or is she just trying to buy votes?

          26. glenn398 says

            No matter what, the government will always find reasons to hire more and more people. On the other hand if there was no reason to hire all these people into the government system can you imagine the unemployment rate, it would be out of this world. Especially since they usually hire 3 people to do what one person does outside government work.

          27. ABO says

            What, only three???

          28. glenn398 says

            That’s only for the simple jobs.

          29. ABO says

            Aren’t those the ones that really confuse them?

          30. glenn398 says

            Being in management most of my life had to deal with both local and federal officials and it boggles the mind of the stupidity you have to deal with.

          31. ABO says

            I can about imagine.

          32. glenn398 says

            I remember one workplace inspection where they couldn’t find anything wrong but it was obvious he was determined to find something. So he went back into the rest room and showed me some drops of water on the floor. I said yes people do that after washing their hands. He wrote me up on that and I said there is nothing I can do to correct what people do. He said that isn’t his problem we need to correct this problem. Told him the only way I could correct this type of problem was to put a janitor in the bathrooms all opening hours and he said if that is what it takes.

          33. ABO says

            Incredible, glenn, but I would imagine it’s a common scenario.

          34. glenn398 says

            Am sure I was not the only one to have to deal with these idiots but that is also why it is a lot more expensive to run a business in this country. Bill Gates said it best when he said it would cost a billion dollars more to build a large manufacturing plant here as compared to anywhere else in the world.

          35. pineapple says

            There are those who work for a living(minority), and here are those who vote for a living(majority, unfortunately)

          36. glenn398 says

            That is the way our country has been going for a long time but it now becomes a major problem because we now have more on the government dole than working. It used to be helping with food, then shelter but today there are 122 government programs for the so called poor. How is the I-phone helping the so called poor with what is needed to live. People say that doesn’t come from taxes, well when the price to pay for these free phones is added to the phone bill of those that pay it may not be called a tax but just a tax under another name.

          37. ted j says

            when you have a stupid, uninformed electorate… that is happens..people voting for freebies instead of country….

          38. pineapple says

            “Hard to believe they have dumbed so many down to buy the lie.”

            Must be true, or he would not have been elected twice.

          39. ted j says

            it is the dems way of prosperity.. just keep giving away money you don’t have until the day of reckoning…. then we will blame the GOP… and the complicit MSM will support that lie.

          40. glenn398 says

            There is nothing left to give away that is why we have to borrow huge amounts of money every year

          41. Uselessbastard says

            Despite your obvious misconceptions of government debt, the solution to debt spending would be a balanced budget amendment. That being said the only way you’re going to get people to be outraged enough to do that, is to let them experience it in the only place they understand… The pocket book. If there can be no compromise in our legislature about which programs to keep, raise taxes unilaterally to cover the debt expenditure. Then we can discuss which programs can be cut in order to pay down the debt.

          42. glenn398 says

            We have the balance budget law in our state and what they do is put it in some department where it isn’t counted as debt and still overrun the budget. Like all governments they always find a way to cook the books.

          43. pineapple says

            President O’Bama blames President Bush for leaving him a $1.3 trillion
            deficit.

            This deficit includes the $700 billion TARP loan which O’Bama,as a senator, voted for.

            Since $500 billion of the TARP loan was repaid, this leaves a
            Bush deficit of $800 billion, of which $300 billion was due to a pork laden farm bill which Bush vetoed, only to have his veto overridden by a Democratic controlled Congress.

            O’Bama increased the $800 billion Bush deficit by 100% to 1.6 trillion in 2010, and will add another $1.3 trillion in 2011.

            Also, it’s not true for O’Bama to claim that the Bush Administration “funded two wars without paying for any of it.” As noted by the Heritage Foundation’s Conn Carroll, spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were already incorporated into Bush era calculations, which now seem miniscule compared to Obama’s record deficits:

            After all, this is the man who attacked the Bush deficits and repeatedly promised to scour the federal budget “line-by-line.”

          44. Uselessbastard says

            Wow — you’re just plainly ignorant. Wars used to be financed by war bonds. Where was the corresponding tax increases when we went to war? Oh wait, we cut taxes for some reason on the wealthy because that spurs job growth and the war would be paid for by oil profits (but we won’t tax the oil companies for some reason) And again, you have very little understanding how economics work.

    2. gonzales27 says

      Libs will never get it going back to LBJ war on poverty. So you raise the minimum wage,then prices will go up an equal amount for producers to maintain their margins. Then the spiral begins. Another round of wage increases followed by another round of price increases.

      1. pineapple says

        It’s called runaway inflation and can destroy an economy quickly.

        1. gonzales27 says

          Yes sir,thanks.

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          2. MAHB001 says

            Scum Puppet. Spam.

        2. AfricanTraveler1 says

          It is called decency and humanity.

          1. John Phillips says

            It is called: “Remove the lower rungs on the employment ladder”
            It is also called: “Eliminate all jobs that cannot turn a profit at the new wage”
            One of the biggest forces for audimation.
            At $15.00 per hour your fast food meal will cost twice as much, staffed with half as many employees or someplace in between these extremes.
            What good is it to double the minimum wage if all prices double? Who have you really helped. The big winner will be the government which will collect more than twice as much in taxes from these workers.

          2. Mark says

            I think you mean “automation.”
            Either way, you’re 100% CORRECT.
            I believe that replacing the “Federal” Minus Wage with A Living Wage, based on how much it costs single people.and families of various sizes to afford the necessities of life is the answer.

            Unless I’m mistaken, nearly no teenager has living expenses that they would need a lot of money to pay.

            Such a solution would restore the ability of employers to pay starting wages to young people and to move up to paying a living wage to others, based one the cost of supporting yourself, and a family of various sizes in your state of residence.

            Of course, since I believe in suchl a sensible resolution to this problem, our mind-numbed political masters will probably lgnore it, because this kind of “Good sense” thinking is totally uncommon to them.

          3. pineapple says

            Not only that, the millions of people who are on welfare will not benefit if wages are increased, because they have no wages. However the costs of their necessities will go up, causing them to sink further into poverty.

            Liberal logic is illogical.

          4. ABO says

            Only in your pathetic little fantasy world. Unfortunately, in the real world the results of such presumed “decency and humanity” hurt others in a big way. It would appear that you aren’t able to see beyond the end of your nose in order to consider the possibility of related results that harm others. Or do you just not care?

          5. gonzales27 says

            Yea,when you are 19 Trillion in debt with veterans living in the streets,and raising the debt limit constantly so we can borrow more from China and leave the debt to the next generation.

          6. worn out 123 says

            Decency, humanity, and murdering the unborn. The tolerant left. Btw, it is more accurately if called “more unemployed”. Just can’t wait to start living off working and retired Americans, huh?

        3. Uselessbastard says

          Yet neither the PPI nor the CPI data shows correlated increases in inflation when coupled with previous minimum wage hikes. If the minimum wage was tied to the CPI, it would be over $10/hour. The fact is, the number of people making minimum wage is not a significant enough part of the economy for this to impact things the way you are trying to think about it.

          1. John Phillips says

            True. it is mostly the food service industry and to a lesser extent retail salespeople.
            The ugly part is the wait staff in most restaurants are the only min. wage people and they make the most money because they get tips. Most of the non tipped workers make more than the min. wage. “Busboys” and dish washers can be an exception.

          2. Uselessbastard says

            Doubtful, since farming has gotten significantly more mechanized of the last century. However, in the realm of unintended consequences, mechanization isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the Terminator and Matrix style dystopic future scenarios.

      2. azabigail says

        Plus those kids earning $15 an hour to work at burger places will not have incentive to move on to better things. I can see changing “how” some minimum wage workers who do harder but necessary work should be paid more, but bonuses for good jobs, meeting deadlines, etc., would be better.

      3. pineapple says

        “Another round of wage increases followed by another round of price increases.”

        Not to mention another round of job losses.

        1. gonzales27 says

          One thing I will never understand is how we remain trillions in debt,and keep adding to the deficit,but send trillions to foreign Countries that hate us. ?

          What’s wrong with paying down the debt and quit borrowing from China?
          No cost of living for seniors this year and Veterans living in the streets.

          1. ABO says

            Just some of the end results of African Traveler1’s ‘decency and humanity. Wonderful isn’t it???

          2. gonzales27 says

            Yea trying to buy friendship with countries that hate us?

          3. ABO says

            ?????

    3. pineapple says

      Soldiers deserve a raise before fast food workers. After all, soldiers risk their lives and many lose their limbs protecting our country, only to be denied the health care that was promised them when they return home.

      If fast food workers want a higher income, they need to acquire the skills that higher paying jobs require.

      1. Uselessbastard says

        A minimum wage was enacted to place a lower value on the requirements of a normal individual. I.e., You pay person a wage in which they can survive, if you’re paying less than that, then either that person is starving or someone else is paying for their food and shelter. E.g, you wouldn’t purchase a horse and not expect to feed it.

        1. glenn398 says

          Bull how do you think we survived way before there was such a thing as minimum wages. Of course that is when people were responsible and didn’t expect to put very little effort in on their part and it was everyone else’s responsibility to take care of them.

      2. glenn398 says

        It is getting to be in this country where a lot of people risk their lives just walking out the front door but totally agree with you on soldiers being taken care of medically. As far as wages I remember as a private E=1 got $98 a month plus taxes were taken out of that plus then you were forced to support the red cross and that was in 1966. Today they are quite well paid in my opinion.

        1. John Wilch says

          Brother, you were making $23 more than I did in ’64, I made a $75/month before taxes. When I made E-4 I was making $349.10 per month in ’67. (I was over 6 than). Oh, of course I was also receiving Flight Pay ($75), Hazard Duty pay, over-seas pay and that time, I was in ‘Nam.

          1. glenn398 says

            I was in from 66 thru 68 so that was a couple of years ago so I may be wrong on the pay but thought it was 98

    4. ted j says

      $ 15.00 MINIMUM WAGE ONLY BOOSTS THE UNION DUES….demon-crats want to ruin this country and that is a good start..it is all for the VOTES…

      1. olf says

        Unions are leftist despots. Their father comes only to steal, kill and destroy. That is the standard of those whom have been running our country. No more. That is done, in God’s name Jesus. The righteous have turned back to our creator who founded this country. The left is shaking out of their boots because all the evil they have been doing is all being exposed. No more buying votes for the minions !!! God lead us we will follow. in Jesus name Amen / Shalom

    5. worn out 123 says

      If the best one can do is flip burgers perhaps that person should not reproduce. When he/she is doing better than that in life, then is the time to consider raising a family.

  7. richard schlinder says

    An artificial stimulus of the free market always ends in the opposite effect.

    1. olf says

      Yes Sir Richard. When will people understand that short cuts never workout well.
      Increasing the lower wage will cause every other category of cost to increase as well.
      Those congress or government people make way too much money. When the price of gas doubles and a hamburger is $10.50 fries $4.50 drink is $4.00 = $19.00 it won’t bother them at all, they can afford it. We can’t afford to pay the government slackers any more. They have left the people for selfish gain. Public service is altruistic first, then be fair and true to those who are honest. Unions must be out. They are so big now they have become corrupt. Their useful time has passed.

      1. richard schlinder says

        So the union leader places down the demands. They want 10% increase over the next two years. So the company representative says okay fine. All we ask is for you or any of your people to tell us out how we can increase our gross production at that amount so we can pay you your demands. The money has to come from somewhere. The union leader says that is not our job. The company representative says,should we cut the pay to all the office staff,marketing department,shipping and handling and inventory control so your people can get a raise.?? No answer!
        The only reason company leaders give in to union demands because if they don’t they will be out of a job. The system is broke!

        1. olf says

          Break the unions backs. They are one of the reasons government has got so out of control. And they use those union dues to buy votes for the left. The supported Obamacare and then turned around and demanded to be taken off of the mandates. Now just who do you think is getting the shaft ? Obamacare is part of the communist islam take over plot. Whatever the left is for, we must be against. They do nothing for the good of the people. They want power and control, that’s it. And they could careless who they destroy getting there. When they say it’s for every ones good, you know it’s lie. The only way for anyone to get back to right will be through the principles of God. The Golden Rule and Ten Commandments. Anything less will never work.

          1. richard schlinder says

            History has shown us this a thousand times before. The stakes are high and everyone is corrupt. The Tower of Babel will fall causing a total destruction and a cleansing. Many innocent people will fall but so will the machine,the corrupt organizations and governments will come apart. Militaries will fight for their own existence and not for any government. Law enforcement will be home with their families trying to survive. Law and order will cease. All that will be left is your family and maybe a few friends who will be asking,now what do we do? This all can only play itself out,there are no options,no answers.

          2. olf says

            that is the second seal horse, bright red, It’s rider was permitted to take peace from earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. Revelation 6:4 I pray you know God / Jesus and His righteousness. There will be no other. Repent and know peace. Amen

        2. pineapple says

          Union demands are legalized extortion.

          1. richard schlinder says

            Pine. I could not agree more. I was 22 Y.O. had a wife and one in the oven.I needed a job.My Dad got me a job in a factory. After 29 days,I told my Dad I had to quit. He asked why.I said I would have to join the union on the 30th day.I just could not bring myself to do that.

  8. Wayne Thorson says

    This economic scholar needs to go back to school. I wish he was working for minimum wage he would think differently.

    1. MAHB001 says

      Only in your entitled little cocoon could you justify the loss of jobs and destruction of so many peoples livelihood, that socialism brings.

      1. Wayne Thorson says

        False again. Only in your head you brainwashed fool.

        1. MAHB001 says

          So you are saying that outside of your entitled cocoon one can justify socialism?

          The minimum wage is used by Unions to justify their own existence. Minimum wage was never intended to bring people out of poverty….

          Now Liberals use it to encircle their wagons as their policies are only enslaving the poor and driving them deeper into poverty.

          1. Mark Lahti says

            Hey there my friend. You know this fool is a troll. He’s been here before. I get a kick out of his big ole texan style hat. I guess if some fool thinks he is a cowboy then that gives him the cajones to talk crap like that. Again, these socialists resort to lies and name calling. It is all they have when confronted with the truth. Anyway, good to hear from you again. Wishing you and yours a happy new year and God Bless.

          2. Wayne Thorson says

            I am so lucky I have never had to live on minimum wage. I have to feel sorry for anyone who has had to. I know it is not all their fault. They just work for a greedy employer. If you would stop and think how you would like working for minimum wage you might change your mind..

          3. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            Explain how someone who never graduated Highschool deserves to make $15 an hour flipping burgers and mopping floors. Then explain why minimum wage raises but other wage groups do not, such as someone with a bachelor’s degree who works in banking. Go for it. Knock yourself out

          4. Wayne Thorson says

            Are you so ignorant that you don’t understand economics? The unions are all backing raising the minimum wage. Once it gets raised it will bring more money into the business world which gives proprietors more profit so the unions can then ask for more money for their members. It is definitely good for the economy.

          5. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            The unions all back them, so they must be good…? Really?! Most unions are just mini mafias where you pay dues wether you join or not, IF you have the option to opt out of joining, which some states do not allow. It is called the ‘Right to work’ and they are extortionists. Not all, but certainly many. Unions are the reason why bad teachers cannot be fired, never mind if they deserve to be, why unproductive workers cannot be fired, as they should be. Unions used to do good things time to time, now many of them are just about gaining money and power. http://www.nrtw.org/d/big_labor_special_privileges.htm

          6. Wayne Thorson says

            If you don’t want work for a company that is organized in the Union you don’t go to work there. You go to a company that pays minimum wage. Is that so hard to figure out. You don’t deserve to work for a union company if you don’t want to sacrifice what the other employees have to get that wage up there. Scabs get what they deserve when they cross that picket line.

          7. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            Are you mafia? Seriously. That is extortion and people should have the right to choose wether they wish to be a part of a union or not. Clearly you do not believe in or have never read the Constitution. Mafia used to do the same exact thing. Offer their ‘protection’ for businesses and if they ‘refused the great offer’ then the mafia bullied them until they caved. Unions are nearly the same, just go by a different name. I guess you would have been a great goon.

          8. Wayne Thorson says

            Have you ever been a scab? You seam to think they are all right. I think it is terrible that they want come and work for a company where the workers have sacrificed walking on picket lines and fighting for benefits and wages then some scab thinks he should be able to walk right in there and get all these benefits that he has never sacrificed anything for. They can go work for minimum wage for all I care.

          9. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            The process you are referring to ‘able to walk right in there and get all these benefits that he never sacrificed anything for’ is called progress. What is the point of freedom if a person cannot choose wether or not to be a part of an organization which controls aspects of his or her life? What is the point of progress if not to improve conditions for those who come after you? Your whole statement just seems so selfish, hypocritical and anti-Constitutional.
            If anyone does not want to have some entity controlling their work (if the union says picket, everyone pickets, etc) and paying a portion of their wages for ‘protection’ that they don’t want, that is the definition of extortion and taking away that choice from the individual is indeed trampling their freedom and Constitutional right to pursuit of happiness

          10. Wayne Thorson says

            If they don’t want to pay union dues then they can go and work for minimum wage. They have that choice. Nobody forces them to work for a company that is organized.

          11. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            That is not Constitutional and not a true exercise in freedom. You sound as bad as the anti-discrimination groups who say, ‘If you don’t want to serve everyone then don’t own a business’. It flies in the face of what the Founding Fathers intended when they formed this nation. Constitutional rights include the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, freedom of religion. No where does it say submit to extortion or move. Clearly you need a refresher course in Constitutionalism

          12. Wayne Thorson says

            If a woman doesn’t want to have sex should she have the right to work for a brothel? Where is this in the constitution. You far right Republicans seam to think you know all about the constitution only when you want drive your ridiculous point. If I don’t want wear a seat belt when I drive a car can I use the constitution as a defense when I get a ticket for not wearing one?

          13. Bythepeople4thepeople says

            What? Your response is just a shot in the dark. Here, allow me to turn this around on you and see if you can come up with a coherent response. If a woman wants to have sex and then gets pregnant as a result of having sex, should a stranger who has never met her or doesn’t know her pay for the termination of that pregnancy or for the continuous care of that child?

          14. Wayne Thorson says

            Yep, definitely against the constitution.

          15. iamcurious says

            No, it does not! It reshuffles the money there, with no change in the value of productivity.

          16. Wayne Thorson says

            The economy in this country is not going to change for the best until we redistribute the money from the filthy rich to the middle class and the less fortunate. It is just that simple. Raise the taxes on the filthy rich and lower the taxes on everyone else.

          17. ABO says

            Thank you, Wayne. You have just proved yourself to be completely delusional. It is you who does not understand economics. Your little story would be great if it held even the slightest modicum of truth but it is nothing but pure delusional nonsense.

          18. Wayne Thorson says

            All I know is that it is better than trickle down Reagonomics. Nothing ever gets trickled down to the average Joe. It just stays at the top in their bank accounts or some place overseas where they don’t have to pay taxes on it.

          19. iamcurious says

            You aren’t just stupid. You’re hopelessly stupid.

          20. Wayne Thorson says

            I suppose.

          21. ABO says

            There you go. Now you’re starting to catch on.

          22. Wayne Thorson says

            Have to humor the guy.

          23. ABO says

            Oh, is that what it is. Humor.

          24. MAHB001 says

            Wayne, don’t you know, you didn’t do that…. You didn’t get that job above minimum wage…
            Somebody else did that for you.

          25. Wayne Thorson says

            yup.

          26. Wayne Thorson says

            YUP. I’m glad you agree.

          27. MAHB001 says

            And now you run around trying to force others to do what you should be doing yourself….. That is sad dude.

          28. Wayne Thorson says

            YUP.

          29. Wayne Thorson says

            YUP.

          30. ABO says

            Ha! Well put MAHB001.

          31. Kent2012 says

            wanynee, like most panty waisted socialists, misses completely the concept of “entry level wage” his statement “I have never had to live on minimum wage”…gives up the reality of his socialist bent…those folks that jump out into the street to “demonstrate” for $15.00 an hour wage should return to their place of employment only to find another worker is doing their job, maybe a syrian “refugee”…or some one from Mehico City….by way of Brownsville….

          32. MAHB001 says

            Waynee is a socialists, He was told by his handlers to push for a minimum wage, so waynee follows instructions.

  9. glenn398 says

    His point really is most are on welfare so wages don’t matter and so his answer is give more to those sucking the life out of the poor working stiff.

  10. zoehoney says

    Go big corporation and AUTOMATE! Screw all liberals

  11. zoehoney says

    What liberals seem not to know is that America is BROKE and we cannot take on more ON THE DOLE. Who is going to pay for those on the dole? No one there are not that many wealthy anymore that could possible support the millions that are headed to the food lines or in them now.

    1. glenn398 says

      zoehoneyl you are wrong as the liberals will tell you that the only way out of this problem is spend more money on it as we caused the problem by not spending enough on it in the first place.

  12. MAHB001 says

    The minimum wage was hiked in San Diego CA and small businesses went out of business because of it.

    One such business Sanfilippo’s tried to sell the business but nobody would purchase it. 40 years in business, and closed by a socialist government.

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/26/sanfilippos-pizza-la-mesa-wrap-up/

    http://www.cbs8.com/story/29898568/la-mesa-about-to-lose-its-landmark-restaurant

    1. Kent2012 says

      I think those clowns were the same scum sucking pigs that told the Navy that they did not want any military presence in san fransicko….it was causing them a lot of difficulty digging their wadded up panties out of their cracks…I can see where that could take place…their panties wedged their heads in their crack…tough go there…

      1. MAHB001 says

        I believe you are correct.

  13. C K Johnson says

    Australia has a minimum wage of $15.00 per hour. McDonalds charges the same money there as they do here. How many people responding would work for Minimum wage? Maybe this economist would like to start out at Minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. pineapple says

      I started out at minimum wages as a ditch digger with a pick and shovel. I also worked on a garbage truck for minimum wages. I increased my qualifications by working my way through college as a common laborer. After finishing college, I was able to earn more than the minimum wage.

      1. Kent2012 says

        ck is full of it

    2. olf says

      Please move there.

  14. curmudgeon VN Veteran says

    Minimum wage is only there to give organized labor a benchmark when they are negotiating for pay increases. It is NEVER intended as an assist for raising people out of poverty. That’s simply the excuse for why it must be raised. One of the best examples of the results from “The Law of Unintended Consequences”.

  15. paulrph1 says

    Besides $15 for a hamburger is to much. I have a hard time with 5-6 dollars.

    1. iamcurious says

      Me too, and I won’t pay it, therefore, I don’t patronize it now. Raise the minimum wage any further and I won’t even stop at a fast food restaurant anymore!

  16. daveveselenak says

    If the stupid sheeple weren’t that then they would start calling for there to be a reduction of salaries for the public servants – what azzholes and hypocrites, they deserve each other!

  17. Grelberforever says

    Teenagers and out of school college kids will be eliminated completely from the job market. Send the people who try to live on minimum wages to tech or training schools so they can QUALIFY for a job worth $15/hr. It would be worth it to the economy to pay them current minimum wage to support their families while they are being trained to support themselves.

    1. glenn398 says

      Grelberforever have you looked at the graduation rate of college students, if you did you wouldn’t be proposing such action.

      1. iamcurious says

        Of the ones that do graduate, it has been revealed that between 35 and 45% of them cannot demonstrate that college had any effect on them, beneficial or otherwise. 38% of the American people cannot even pass the mental/intellectual part of the armed forces exam anymore!

  18. gregsmom says

    The McDonald’s near my house just closed down. Liberals don’t understand consequences of their actions. So a bunch of minority kids are now out of jobs, because that’s mostly who worked there. What the heck did the liberals expect? There will be more shut-downs, and many more companies will switch to computerized ordering. Some already have done that around here.

    1. pineapple says

      Kentucky Fried Chicken shut down near my house. Raising the minimum wage takes from the already razor thin margins until it is a losing business.

      1. Kent2012 says

        yes, but many fail to recognize the prime problem is education..Our education system has become so infected with socialist/communists that we have a huge number of folks that are voting age and those twits have A.) zip economic education. B.) zip historical education. C.) zip civics education. D.) zip capitalist economic understanding, BUT they know A.) how to put a rubber on a cucumber. B.) how to wear a hijab. C.) who Che Guevara is. D.) and gay is normal, heterosexuals are Christian haters….and the scum in the media just keep the insanity roiling…

        1. olf says

          Thank you Kent, you hit the nail directly on the head. They have been taught that stupid is good. Our education system should be shut down until it is healed of the lying corruption that has infected it. There is a better way. Teaching dumb is evil.

      2. uddeboda says

        All the burger take aways near me, and we have 3 different ones, are doing well, and their staff earn about $21 an hour…………..BUT………….its not in the USA

        1. ABO says

          All susidized by your friendly, socialist, Swedish government.

          1. uddeboda says

            gofuckyourselfturd

          2. ABO says

            Glad to see you expressing the full extent of your intellect.

  19. tarotcardman says

    The minimum wage this was meant not lower the wages ,in a stable economy , it ‘s value is greater . in a poor economy we suffer the lost value, buying power of the dollar, a snicker bar candy . was 5 cents no tax , 1957 today $ snicker bar is $ 1..00 tax 7cents if the minimum wage does not keep its value reason says it needs a raise to cover the lost value of the dollar. This is a value issue our dollar is lousing value , when you give your money away the value is lost give money and goods away we give trillions away FOREIGN COUNTRY WHO NEVER PAY BACK WE SUFFER FROM POLITICAL DUMBNESS GIVING MONEY AWAY THAT YOU COULD HAVE HAD ,

    1. iamcurious says

      That’s but one small part of a very large problem.

    2. uddeboda says

      Exaggeration…………..giving trillions away………pull the other leg or provide a link

  20. Mike Stempo says

    I’ve had this minimum wage discussion with a number of folks. They give me the most myopic and tunnel visioned look, totally missing the larger, longer, and wider point of why raising the minimum range has consequences beyond the mere act of a wage increase for an individual. It’s like trying to reason with a very young child. Their responses and explanations are usually very emotional against all reality and reason. It is no wonder politicians on the left have good odds of playing the minimum wage card.

    Here’s a good overall quote. It is unclear who to attribute it to, but nonetheless an accurate observation. I venture that we are in the latter stages of the apathy to dependence stage

    “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

    Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.”

    1. olf says

      Bingo.

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  22. Bill1012 says

    If politicians think that $12 or $15 per hour minimum wage is good, why not just go ahead and make it $50 or $100. That would be even better!

    Having some politician or bureaucrat decide what a person’s labor is worth is the stupidest idea ever to come down the pike! Any idiot knows that those that receive an increase in wage that is not accompanied by a commensurate increase in productivity or worth, will necessarily involve an increase in prices. The value of the increase wage will soon be eaten away and the minimum wage worker will soon be right back where he/she started! The increase helps no one but government. Government will increase the amount of tax revenue it receives without having to go through the effort to convince taxpayers of its necessity! Minimum wage increases are the progressive’s way to place additional taxes on the poor without the taxpayer’s knowledge.

    Those who end up taking it in the neck are those on fixed income retirement. Since they do nor benefit from the increased wage, they still have to bear the brunt of the increased prices. The wage increase just pushes many of those further into poverty!

    No person in the US is “required” to work at any specific wage.The wage paid it the result of an agreement between the worker and the employer. If anyone feels his/her labor is worth $12 or $15 per hour, he/she has no business accepting a $7 wage rate in the first place, and then agitating for an undeserved wage increase from the politicians!

    1. Uselessbastard says

      Read the history of the labor movement. We enacted minimum wage reforms because of exploitation by businesses who viewed workers as expendable or fodder. “It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country”

      1. Bill1012 says

        Useless, your
        response makes no sense!

        There is not one employer in the nation that can compel a worker to his/her employment! All employment is by mutual consent. If a worker does not agree to the terms of employment there is no employment contract, Period! An employer can NOT exploit a worker, unless the worker so desire the exploitation. If a worker feels exploited
        he/she can quit and find employment elsewhere!

        Additionally, the concept of a “living wage” is nonsensical! Please define what you mean! For example, a single female teenager and a married man with a spouse and three
        dependent children are hired to do the same function; do both workers require
        the same “living wage”? Who should be empowered to make the determination?

        1. Uselessbastard says

          Yes, you’re correct! Somehow history is incorrect and there has never been mass exploitation of workers! All those children preferred to work! And those coal workers, what on earth could they need air filters for? They knew that they could just mosey on down to the next coal mine and get and employer that knows how to treat their employees well! I sure hope you don’t get pregnant when working, your boss is totally obligated to fire you since you can’t work any more. Hey, why should an employer hire two people when they can hire one at work him twice as hard!

          You’re joking right? I’ll give a simple analogy in case my sarcasm fails you. If you buy a horse and expect it to work, you need to feed and shelter it. A minimum wage is a simple low bar with a broad mathematical calculation on what the average person can live off of. Because if the business isn’t paying for that person to live, someone else is. Understand?

          1. Bill1012 says

            Useless, you really need to reexamine your Socialist leanings.

            Employers do NOT hire horses; if a horse is needed it will be bought or rented! A worker is hired to perform a function that contributes to the profitability of the
            business. The wage rate offered can depend on many factors such as the
            capability required and education necessary to perform the function, the
            availability of labor in the local labor pool, expected productivity, and so
            forth. The wage rate has NOTHING to do with the desired lifestyle of the
            worker. An employer is concerned with getting the work done and producing a
            profit. If a prospective worker requires a higher wage than what is offered it
            is the worker’s responsibility to either modify his/her lifestyle or refuse the
            offer! That responsibility does NOT reside with the employer!

          2. ABO says

            History shows that Labor Unions, when they first came to the fore were useful and actually, at the time necessary but have since become corrupt and no long

            er serve those who are their members. Were that not the case, the unions would not be pushing the government to force workers to join against their will.

          3. Bill1012 says

            You may be correct, but there have been a number of influences that have changed the status of workers wages and working conditions over the years. One of the primary advantages the workers of today have is mobility. A hundred years ago, workers were basically confined to work where they lived, that is no longer the case. Employers can no longer expect workers to accept whatever offer is laid on the table, and are required to provide commensurate wages and benefits to those available on a much larger environment to insure a quality workforce.

            It is the impetus of the cushy positions of the labor union bosses that is pushing for governmental assistance in the forced membership in labor unions rather than the benefits accrued to members. The bosses see their own self interests are at stake with dwindling union membership, and since the workers see little advantage purchased through union dues, their best alternative is through governmental edicts to insure union membership.

          4. ABO says

            Thank you, Bill, you have provided a very well thought out explanation as to why Labor Unions are no longer a legitimate entity in today’s society. I would like to think that perhaps at some point in the future a new and legitimate form of Labor Union will emerge that will actually stand up for the legitimate rights of American workers, rather than simply lining their own pockets at the expense of those they claim to represent.

          5. Bill1012 says

            As clarification, I wholeheartedly support the ability for private sector workers that wish to join or form labor unions as long as there is no coercion either from within or without the unions. I feel that workers should be free to do as they please on this regard. Additionally, there are some employers that prefer to deal with one entity, the union, rather than have to negotiate with each individual employee.

            Public employees are in an entirely different category. All public sector unions should be abolished and prohibited! When government worker unions bargain, they meet with elected officials who, most often, probably owe the unions for the majority of their campaign funding. The official doing the “bargaining” has no ‘skin in the game’ and will ‘kowtow’ to the unions in order to insure future campaign funding. The one entity with ‘skin in the game’. the taxpayer, doesn’t even get a seat at the bargaining table at all and ends up taking it in the neck! There is nothing fair or equitable about public sector unions at all!

          6. ABO says

            I agree entirely with your reasoning, Bill. Thank you.

          7. pineapple says

            If the employer doesn’t pay a living wage, then improve your qualifications and
            seek a better paying job. That’s what I did by working my way through college doing manual labor.

            I have no sympathy for those who are too lazy to exert the effort improve their own situation, but feel entitled to whatever they want.

          8. Uselessbastard says

            So you’re saying the people who are working are just not working hard enough so they don’t deserve to be able to have time to improve themselves because they have to work harder to put food on the table.. Sorry man. Logical incongruity. Human work has value, and if you wanted to be scientific about it, you could say that the minimum value of human work is what is required for that human to live — feed and clothe themselves. There is literally no where in the country where one can live off of 40 hours of minimum wage. If that person’s job isn’t supporting them, then someone else is. It’s just basic common sense. You need a human to do work, then you must pay at least what that human needs. You wouldn’t use a horse for farm work and then not feed it ’cause it was too expensive.

    2. uddeboda says

      What a load of crap, the only reason why companies can pay such low wages,practically no benefits, or paid vacation………..is that the workers dont belong to unions……….the “slaves” get what they deserve

      1. Bill1012 says

        You really need to get a reality check! The reason employers pay the wage rate they do, is because they have workers willing to accept the wage offered! It has nothing to do with anything else. If no worker was willing to accept the wage, it would not exist!

        1. uddeboda says

          Then you too should look at the reason as to why minimum wages, AKA slave wages exist in the USA and the UK…………no UNIONs or very very small, less than 6% of workers in the USA are union members……….same applied to the UK during the 1980s when Thatcher outlawed the unions and they too have very low union membership…………Low Union membership, mean the greedy companiescan do jusy what they like with their workers….AKA slaves………most of Europé have unions, and in my country Sweden as well as Denmark and Norway,union member ship is in the high 70%…….and working conditions are super, very high wages right across the board, 38hr week, plus full benefits, as many as 35 Days vacation a year with full pay, 480 Days maternity leave, and as of late fathers can now take 3 months leave with full pay to be with their Young Child……..and many many dads are doing it, free Healthcare, medication, dentalcare, hospitals………and retirement pensions are at about 80% of final salary……………a worker in a fast food rest earns about $22an hour

          1. Bill1012 says

            I have no problemwith private sector Unions at all. In fact I, not only was a Union member, I was a Local Officer, frequently negotiating with the management for grievances and benefits.

            But the reason that membership in them has fallen in the US, is that they are nothing but money funnels for the Union bosses, and a way for the government to suck more wealth from the workers. More and more manufacturing jobs are being shipped offshore, primarily because of the Unions, so now there are fewer and fewer jobs available to workers.

            But, again, as I previously stated, no employer can force any worker to accept “slave wages” at all. Every wage rate offered has to be accepted by a worker or it will not be paid! The workers are in the driver’s seat when it comes to wages! The same with benefits! If a worker accepts the benefit package offered, he/she has no
            one to blame!

          2. uddeboda says

            There lies the difference between Swedish and American mentality, we trust our unions and they do a damned good job…….getting at least 3% wage increase year on year, even during this present economic crisis which is still ongoing

          3. Bill1012 says

            I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with non-American labor organizations and practices. But it does mystify me that one should herald wage rate increased during an economic downturn! The primary effect of that eventuality is to deprive the employers of the necessary profits to expand and lead out of the failing economic situation. By being so short-sighted as to demand wage rate increases for themselves, the Unions are putting the well being of the rest of the nation at jeopardy!

          4. uddeboda says

            During this economic downturn, which started around 2007, Sweden my country was not affected, we had learnt our lesson in the early90s, when the big banks came cap in hand wanting bailouts……..the government refuse, and instead they bought allbut one bank, dismissed the top officials and put in their own people, 2 yrs later the banks were resold to private Investors…….this was an idea that had never been used Before or since, and Swedish finance experts were over in the USA giving lectures in the early 2002-2003, showing what Sweden did…………they were laughed at…………THAT could never ever happen in the USA, WE ARE to big to fail…….FF to 2007, and the rest is history, Swedens economy in 2007-2008 was so strong that we lent billions to small EU nations,Iceland, Ireland, Portugal and the Baltic states…………its pretty easy when you know what you are doing

          5. Bill1012 says

            I really have little specific knowledge about European Socialism, and, if you Europeans are comfortable with your economic system so be it.

            Personally, I can not envision having to submit my freedom and liberty just for economic stability. The freedom to amass great wealth is a corollary to the chance for economic loss. To be able to choose for myself how to invest or use my own assets with low taxation and no government mandated policies and procedures to hamper me, and then to be responsible to only myself for either success or failure is and has been a dream for a long time.

            When government interferes in my economic or social choices utilizing tactics such as selective taxation, punitive economic regulations and minimum wage laws, it goes beyond the pale and is a violation of the principles upon which the USA founders based the formation of this nation. The reason the USA exists is to avoid the governmental interference so prevalent in Europe, then and now,

          6. uddeboda says

            Let me put you straight right now, it is NOT socialism, the correct term is social democracy…….and at this moment in time, only two EU countries have a true social democratic government, France and Portugal…..the remaining countries are either true 100% conservative……similar to the Republicans in the USA or they are a coalition governments, centre right or centre left.

            Just because some EU countries have economic stability…unlike the USA which has debt up to its eyebrows……….individuals do have the freedom to invest and pay low taxes yet still reap the benefits of their country, is their choosing…..people are not hampered here, they can do just what they like within the law, pay low taxes etc etc etc…….you really should read how some of these countries work,and not read all the crap that you have obviously been Reading, to utter such tripe……..and then finally you utter….””a violation of the principles upon which the USA founders based the formation of this nation.””………..papers written in the late 1700s……..Wake up jerk to the modern World………on second thoughts dont, people like you are few, and are fun to read about, better than the Comedy Channel

          7. Bill1012 says

            You may define government any way you choose.But whenever government seizes control over individual choice, I call it socialism or communism. The government in the USA has been trending more and more toward socialism in resent years. and I am determined to do all I can to stop this drift. You may see it differently, but I see it as a movement towards laziness. When people believe that its just too much effort to do things for themselves and choose to pay government to do it for them, the loose the ability to make their own choices. I abhor that mindset.

          8. uddeboda says

            That is true…….””.But whenever government seizes control over individual choice, I call it socialism or communism””………aswas in the USSR,amd several East EU countries prior to 1989…………then you go on the say………more crap……..””The government in the USA has been trending more and more toward socialism in resent years. and I am determined to do all I can to stop this drift.””

            Socialism AKA social democracy in Europé has nothing to do with laziness, most EU countries are extremely highly productive, way way above the USAs productivity………and still you go on…….””choose to pay government to do it for them, the loose the ability to make their own choices””…….you are so far from the truth…….but if you Think the US way of doing things is best OK, Everything you need or want, from the day you are born until you die, you either have to pay for it cash in hand or buy Insurance to cover

          9. Bill1012 says

            Your last statement seems to indicate that you belief that there is a “free lunch”! Or, that you believe it is your neighbor’s responsibility to pay for your own wants and needs.

            I wholeheartedly reject both concepts. I believe that I am responsible for my own well being, that to offload this responsibility to ‘someone else’ is nothing more than laziness personified!

          10. uddeboda says

            If you are an American then I understand you reject those concepts………..you like theway things are done in the USA, and if you have a pretty good job,and can afford all the Insurance policies that are needed, Money to pay for Healthcare, medication, hospital treatment, higher education……then so be it, here in most EU countries we have a different Outlook on Life and people……….most of us pay reasonable amount of taxes toget the freebies we get, some people are worse off and pay Little or no taxes, yet they still get the same perks as everybody else…………….its what we Europeans call SOLIDARITY……….where all people are humans and deserve respect. not the crappy way you Yanks like it……….””I have got mine, so fuck you others”………..but do carry on with the US model, where Close to 50million live in poverty……….you wont see them of course, you cross over the road, or never visit the ghettos which are in every city….YOU are a Cold hearted fucker

          11. Bill1012 says

            This will be my last response. When ever those on the left run out of reasonable responses they ALWAYS revert to name calling and ad hominems. It is not my intent to attack your character because of your socialist leanings, but rather to point out that I believe that freedom is more important than security!

            I also believe that the root cause of poverty lie with the lack of proper individual motivation, usually brought about by the willingness of the government to assume responsibility in lieu of personal freedom.

            And to your last point. Just because someone does not believe that the government has a proper role in providing “charity”, does not infer that that person does not believe in individual charity!

          12. uddeboda says

            Little tiny wussie dont give up so easily, just because you lost the battle with me, tomorrow will be another day, you can go spit at a few blacks……….and stop using that Word……..SOCIALIST……..your stupid ignorance is showing

          13. ABO says

            Considering that you have resorted to insults and given up on the argument, it appears that YOU have lost the battle. Don’t want to admit that your government is Socialist? Why’s that? You seemed so proud of it earlier but now you don’t want to hear about it??? Hmmmm

          14. uddeboda says

            And when have I said that my government is a socialist government

          15. ABO says

            No you claim it is a social democracy but your own government lists itself with the UN as a socialist democracy.

          16. uddeboda says

            No it does not

          17. ABO says

            You can’t show a link that supports your contention but I need to post a link to prove mine. You claim it is an “alternative to both capitalism and socialism, then add “if such a thing were possible”. You can’t even support your own contentions. By the way, you can piss off back to Media Matters or HuffPo or where ever socialist clowns like you find your myopic rhetoric that you follow like the lemmings you are.

          18. uddeboda says

            LINK…………http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/3752
            It is you who is the Lemming, you read all the right wing crap again and again, and when you dont like it you spew even more lies

          19. ABO says

            Did you find that one in your Idiot’s Guide to Liberal Talking points? At least I know now where you got everything you’ve posted here, word for word. Cut and paste much,, Lemming?

          20. uddeboda says

            gofuckyourselfturdagain

          21. ABO says

            Oh, what an intelligent response. How did you ever apply all of your intellect in only an hour to come up with that??? Someone must have helped you as you are obviously not capable of even something that simplistic all on your own.

          22. ABO says

            Well, now I see where you get every word you post here, word for word. And of course in your little delusional mind posting a link to an incredibly obvious far left site proves your right. You aren’t just a lemming, you are a myopic, delusional lemming.

  23. Dan says

    Just another ignorant attempt at “we should all be equal in everything” by the libs. We are all born equal, some people work hard to succeed and some work hard at doing nothing. Why should the lazy be rewarded.

    1. iamcurious says

      The lazy/unmotivated workers can only be rewarded by taking part of the value of the labor of other workers and giving it to them, either directly or via an increase in minimum wage.

      1. Dan says

        Unfortunately, the only thing this will do is destroy what little competition is left from the few small businesses of the big corporations.

  24. Conservative says

    Let’s be real: A mother or father works at McDonalds and gets paid $15.00 an hour. She goes home tired so takes her child or children to Burger King and has to pay $30.00 to feed herself and kids that day. She goes to the grocery store where the cashiers make $15.00 an hour but she has to pay $7.00 for a gallon or milk, $5.00l for a loaf of bread and $10.00 for a pound of ground beef. How is this going to improve anyone’s life?

    1. Uselessbastard says

      You’re speaking of inflation. Please look at the historical PPI and CPI data and then return to your argument.

    2. uddeboda says

      You have to be making up these things……they cant be the prices in the USA…………or perhaps they are………..is food sooooooooooooexpensive

      1. pineapple says

        What are the tax rates there?

        1. uddeboda says

          Tax rates on food, is that what you are asking…….12% which is included in those prices

  25. iamcurious says

    The leftist thinking is so stupid. Why not just print and give a million dollars to every person in America? Of course, at that point the value of money as a medium of exchange, would be zero. If you raise the minimum wage, the entire pay scale across the economy would have to adjust upward because everyone above the former minimum wage would have just received a pay cut. A minimum wage increase comes directly out of the pocket of everyone else working in the economy. Therefore, those wanting to raise it, want everyone else to cut them in on a greater slice of the pie, with no corresponding increase in their value. It’s idiotic. It’s shortsighted. Even the earliest settlers in the American colonies learned their lesson about socialism/communism in the first year in America.

  26. John Wilch says

    Raising the minimum wage is a bunch of crap. Hell I started out working for 90 cents an hour picking cherries, topping corn, and bucking hay during the summer, and unloading trucks for a dairy during the winter all the while attending high school. My wages helped my folks out by buying school supplies, and some clothes. I know that I had to get an education to advance in those jobs. When those summer jobs ended I was earning (1/75/hr) because I learned how to drive a tractor.

    1. uddeboda says

      My OH My——-yippie du dah………aint Life grand

      1. John Wilch says

        uddeboda, I forgot to say that at one time I was working as a custodian ($2.50/hr) and the minimum wage was raised to $3.00/hr. Do you think I got a raise to compensate for my time on the job, I started out at $1.80/hr, nope my pay was just bumped up to the $3.00/hr mark and to make matters worse I had to train a new guy to use the cleaning equipment safely?

        1. uddeboda says

          Thanks for recalling the 1950s

          1. John Wilch says

            uddeboda, that wasn’t the 50’s that was the early part of 1960s, I was in High School at the time. Oh, when I enlisted into the Army, my base pay was about $50/mon. Hows that for pay, I think that figured out to about 15 cents/hr thank God that I was single then and when I got out of the regulars I was probably making $349.10/mon. as a Spec4-E4 over 6.

          2. uddeboda says

            Wow…………when I enlisted in 56 in the UK my monthly wage was about £12, after 4 yrs, served mostly in Ulster……..I came out and my wage was about £40 a month in 1960. in 65 I was earning £60 a month, emmigrated to Sweden and my first wage was THREE times that…………thought I had come to heaven

        2. ABO says

          You won’t get any intelligent response from the Parasite “uddeboda” John.

          1. uddeboda says

            Isnt it annoying when foreigners come onto US forums and criticise the natives………there now, run along now back to mommie and get some titty

          2. ABO says

            Doesn’t bother me when it’s someone like you who just spouts unsubstantiated nonsense which proves that they are completely uninformed. Saves us having to prove the point when you’re perfectly willing to do it for us.

          3. ABO says

            As I said to John just now, I never expect or receive any intelligent response from you and you immediately prove my point for me. Thank you.

          4. uddeboda says

            Dont thank me, thank Mommie

          5. ABO says

            You really are a pathetic wanker. Grow up, Clown.

          6. uddeboda says

            I dont wank anymore I grew up………..perhaps you should also ditch the handcream

          7. ABO says

            Don’t need it. I’ve got a fine, beautiful woman who… Oh, forgot, you wouldn’t understand that sort of thing.

          8. uddeboda says

            Beauty is only skin deep

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  28. Tchiock says

    There should be no minimum wage Period!

  29. gerald Hughes says

    I have been in 3 fast food joints in the last three weeks that have point of sale robots. Wonder what they did with three people that used to run them

  30. uddeboda says

    “””According to Neumark’s paper, very few of the nation’s poverty-stricken families rely – in any way – on a minimum wage income. In 57 percent of families who fall below the poverty line, no one works at all”””…………so what do they live on…………..and dothey just sit on their obese backsides and wait…………

  31. Bill Cash says

    The real issue is any rise in minimum wage is a useless effort, just like the COLA. And businesses that support the everyday people, such as super markets, will simply raise the prices and everything goes right back to where it was. Then too if you raise the minimum the business must give the “long time” worker a raise as well. If I’m making $15.00 per hour after five years employment and you give a new comer the same salary I should expect a comparable increase in my check, raising products prices even more.

  32. Roy Fredrichsen says

    As I understand it, “A minimum wage is for beginning job seekers, who, if qualified enough can go on to higher paying jobs. At least that was true in my 50 years of job hunting. Now, I am told I am over-qualified just because i have prior experience.

    1. uddeboda says

      Thats something new—-an overqualified jerk

      1. ABO says

        This from an undereducated jerk.

  33. snowyriver says

    If you raise the minimum wage and don’t compensate those on Social Security you are slapping our seniors in the face.

    1. pineapple says

      Not to worry, we will have free “end of life counseling” while we are starving.

  34. jimmy midnight says

    It’s a mathematical certainty: If minimum wage was raised by some wild, crazy amount, something like from $7.25 to $30 all at once, employment would be diminished.

    In the real world, where gradualism rules, it’s not that clear cut. Current proposal, to go to an also pathetic $10.50 over two years, might reasonably be expected to lower employment and profitability, and also to increase consumer demand and overall prosperity.

    Now, there’s significant data available from localities that have raised minimum wage. It strongly suggests that worries over employment and profits are exaggerated, and that stimulation is unexpectedly robust.

    Many hundreds of thousands of twenty- and thirty-somethings with family responsibilities are stuck in retail and foodservice jobs; and entry-level paramedics and so on often are started at one or two or three dollars above the minimum.

    Because individual businesses will initially lose some profits, employers will, generally speaking, never increase overall wages unless forced to do so by law.

    Most people posting in this space are, with regard to economic issues, already butt up and head down, looking toward these “malefactors of great wealth” and saying, “You’ve already got me, mentality-wise. Might as well take my body, too. Give it to me good.”

    That’s how long-suffering and misguided you “conservatives” really are. Employers, and “malefactors of great wealth” are much like government in being more powerful, and less accountable, than we are; and both must be forced to treat us decently. You conservatives, and your inability to understand this, is holding the whole world back.

  35. MichaelZZ says

    THE CONCEPT OF “MINIMUM WAGE” IS A CANCER TO OUR NATION’S ECONOMICS, SINCE IT TENDS TO CREATE A PERMANENT UNDERCLASS, MAKES THE USA, INC. LESS COMPETITIVE, CONFLATES AN “ENTRY LEVEL” WAGE WITH A LIVING WAGE, AND WAS TWICE DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY. THE MAJOR BENEFICIARY OF MINIMUM WAGE IS THE BANKING INDUSTRY.

    IF THE ABOVE WEREN’T ENOUGH, PLEASE ENJOY THE FOLLOWING:

    We will always have problems, but unless we recognize, analyze to understanding, we will not possess the requisite information to mitigate those problems.

    I propose that the MINIMUM WAGE concept appears to be classism, at its core, and it appears that those promoting minimum wage and increases thereto are accepting of a larger permanent underclass, and that many of our problems are rooted because of minimum wage.

    MINIMUM WAGE, What’s It All About?

    Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage (minimum wage) workers, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). Most of them, i.e., those who keep their jobs, would receive higher pay that would increase their family’s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold. Those who lose their jobs (per CBO projections) would see their incomes fall (brilliant observation).

    Unfortunately and, perhaps, insidiously, no mention is made of those who will not be able to find entry-level jobs and will be cast within a low and, perhaps, permanent underclass.

    That manufactured situation would cause frustration, depression, and desperation, which, probably is not a healthy situation for a community of any size.

    Any and all legislation, that would tend to create that situation, should be held as irresponsible, mean-spirited, shortsighted, and damaging to our economics, and if that thought were valid, any advocate for such legislation must be dismissed with prejudice.

    The CBO projects that, once fully implemented in the second half of 2016, an increase of the Federal minimum wage of $7.25 to $10.10, as advocated by President Obama would reduce total employment by about 500,000 workers, or 0.3 percent.

    Stipulated and underscores, “Any and all legislation that would tend to create that situation should be held as irresponsible, mean-spirited, shortsighted, and damaging to our economics, and if that thought is valid, any advocate for such legislation must be dismissed with prejudice.”

    The CBO estimates that the increased earnings for low-wage workers resulting from the higher minimum wage would total $31 billion.

    However, those earnings would not go only to low-income families, because many low-wage workers are not members of low-income families. Just 19 percent of the $31 billion would accrue to families with earnings below the poverty threshold, whereas 29 percent would accrue to families earning more than three times the poverty threshold, CBO estimates.

    Moreover, the increased earnings for some workers would be accompanied by reductions in real (inflation-adjusted) income for the people who became jobless because of the minimum-wage increase, for business owners, and for consumers facing higher prices.

    DISCUSSION:

    If it were mandated, by legislation, that federal expenditures for personnel must be reduced by 12%, effective January 1, 2017, would it be better to lay off 12% of the federal workforce or to reduce wages and benefits by 12%?

    When one is laid off, there are many negative results, including, but not limited to depression, unable to meet financial obligations, losing property, such as his or her home, and adversely affecting his or her future in so many other ways.

    When one has a moderate reduction of income, but maintains his or her job, he or she will not be thrilled, but will adjust his or her lifestyle, accordingly.

    Which is better for a community, legislating the loss of jobs or a moderate reduction of income with all maintaining their jobs?

    Similarly, which is better, a higher minimum wage with fewer jobs or more jobs?

    Should it be Congress’s responsibility to advocate, propose, and pass legislation that would positively benefit our Nation?

    What is the “theory” that legislation, that is projected to cause 500,000 lowly paid workers to lose their jobs, would be beneficial to our Nation?

    The 500,000 only represents those low paid workers, who would lose their jobs, but does not include the vast numbers of new potential entrants into the workforce who will be unable to find those “entry-level” jobs.

    An entry-level job is critical to one’s future as it is the first rung of his or her ladder to the future. Our “leaders” should pass legislation, which would stimulate the creation of more entry-level jobs, now fewer.

    Whereas Senator Diane Feinstein was a co-sponsor of the $10.10 proposed legislation, on July 22, 2015, I was told by a member of her staff that, in April, she co-sponsored proposed legislation promoting a $12.00 minimum wage, thus the estimate of 500,000 lost jobs rises to X lost jobs and even fewer will find entry-level positions.

    It appears that Einstein’s definition of insanity is alive and well.

    Redundancy can be good: “Any and all legislation that would tend to create a situation that would cause fewer jobs and fewer opportunities should be held as irresponsible, mean-spirited, shortsighted, and damaging to our economics, and if that thought were valid, any advocate for such legislation must be dismissed with prejudice.”

    It appears as though ANY minimum wage is damaging to any community.

    The concept of “minimum wage” is a classic oxymoron and it is an irrational conflation of an “entry-level” wage with a “living-wage”. I offer five characterizations of wages: entry-level, minimum wage, living wage, union wage, and market-wage.

    Manufacturing within U.S.A., Inc. is becoming less competitive as wages rise.

    Many service jobs are, also, being off-shored.

    How many jobs has China, et al taken from us?

    NONE. We have given them our jobs.

    How often do we hear the question posed by Mr. Wonderful (Shark Tank), “Have you priced this item from China”?

    CAN IT GET WORSE? OH, YEAH!

    I posed the following “theoretical” question to staffs of Senator Diane Feinstein, Senator Bernie Sanders, and my Congressman, Brad Sherman:

    If minimum wage were $25, how would that affect high school graduation rates and the increase or decrease of unauthorized visitors and how would “no minimum wage” affect those two segments?

    After more than 15 calls to DC and SF, Senator Feinstein has not offered a reply.

    After 6 calls to Senator Sanders’ DC office, the best I could get was that a staff member said she was uncomfortable giving her opinion, but will make an effort to obtain a reply from the Senator. A campaign volunteer said he agreed with the obvious answers, but still supported Senator Sanders.

    After too many calls with Congressman Brad Sherman’s staff in DC and in Van Nuys, one staff member offered, off the record, that he or she and his or her father agreed with the obvious.

    It appears that the higher the minimum wage, the result will be lower high school graduation rates and a higher number of unauthorized visitors.

    This is more evidence to confirm that it appears as though ANY minimum wage is damaging to any community.

    Any artificialities (in this case, any minimum wage) inserted into the economy will have unintended consequences.

    Politicians who advocate minimum wage are ignorant (doubtful to perhaps), afraid to speak truth (for fear of losing their positions), or attempting to win votes (pandering), but regardless of the reason, any advocate for such legislation must be dismissed with prejudice.

    We, the People, desperately, need leaders, not politicians who have embedded within their DNA the “need” to lie.

    mz

    mikiesmoky@aol.com

    07/28/2015

    On July 4, 2015, Congressman Sherman and I were walking out of Woodland Hills Park as I asked him about minimum wage and he responded that there is some good in the concept.

    On August 27, 2015, I was told, by a staff member of Congressman Sherman, that the congressman believes, in some situations, a “minimum wage” is appropriate.

    If that report were true, it appears to be a stellar example of obfuscation and political-speak (redundancy).

    Congressman Sherman (Ca-D, 30th) supports the “minimum wage” concept, as do almost all Democrats.

    If my narrative is valid, why would anyone advocate for any minimum wage?

    Last edited: 06/11/2016

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