Florist Stands Firm in Her Convictions

319

Hard as it may be to believe, the case of Barronelle Stutzman is one of the most important (and dismaying) things happening in America today. While the case isn’t the leading news story on any of the major networks, it should be. Because when the state can jump in and crush your business for refusing to bend your religious beliefs, something is rotten in the United States.

For the uninitiated, Stutzman is a florist in Washington. After declining to provide flowers for a gay wedding in 2013, she found herself the target of the attorney general’s wrath. The state sued Stutzman, claiming that she had violated the state’s anti-discrimination laws when she turned her back on the gig. Because of the lawsuit – and a second one being brought against her by the customer in question – she could lose her business, her property, and her savings. All for standing up for her religious freedoms.

An Unshakable Faith

This week, attorney general Bob Ferguson offered the 70-year-old entrepreneur a way out. For a relatively minor $2,000 penalty, a $1 payment for costs, and a pledge never to discriminate again, Stutzman could settle the case and be on her way. For weaker defendants, it would have been a no-brainer. But as this case has demonstrated, Barronelle Stutzman is anything but weak.

She rejected the deal, saying in a letter to Ferguson: “You are asking me to walk in the way of a well-known betrayer, one who sold something of infinite worth for 30 pieces of silver. That is something I will not do.”

In her reference to Judas the betrayer, Stutzman has made it all too clear what this is all about. This isn’t a publicity stunt. This isn’t some hateful bigot with a backwards idea of what America means. This is a loving, friendly business owner who is suddenly in the middle of a fight for religious freedom. Whether you agree with her or not, you have to admire her determination. There aren’t many people left who would put everything they have in this world on the line for Jesus.

The judge in the case, defending his position, said that “religious beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, but actions based on those beliefs aren’t necessarily protected.” A true enough statement – if your holy book tells you to kill infidels, that’s not going to stand up in court – but it ignores the fact that this case is not about discrimination. Not in the legally-protected sense, anyway. Stutzman has not banned her gay customers. In fact, she has gone on record as saying she hopes the customer in question will patronize her store in the future.

At the end of the day, we have a Constitution that protects religious freedom. We do not have one that protects gay weddings. Should the two come into conflict, the victor should be apparent. Unfortunately, in an age where Christianity is demonized and the gay agenda is celebrated, people like Baronelle Stutzman will be persecuted.

319 Comments
  1. Croco Dile says

    As long as the belief in “authority” remains, so will oppression.
    The belief in “authority”, which includes all belief in “government”, is irrational and selfcontradictory; it is contrary to civilization and morality, and constitutes the most dangerous, destructive superstition that has ever existed. Rather than being a force for order and justice, the belief in “authority” is the arch-enemy of humanity.

    THE MOST DANGEROUS SUPERSTITION
    by Larken Rose 2011
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzmOzQRq0ak

    1. Jimmy King says

      Your name should be “Croc” of something else

      1. Croco Dile says

        Your name should be “King of Dumb Asses”.

        1. Karen Gaddy says

          It really would be nice to have a discussion on this board without this disgusting far left wing homosexual jimmy king sticking his no sense nose in and insulting every poster who does not agree with his radical left wing views. I completely agree with your post.

          1. LastGasp says

            I agree. He contributes nothing but provokes responses by any means possible. Obviously a paid shill, a troll.

        2. Jimmy King says

          WOW that’s really clever. And it only took you a day to come up with it

          1. Croco Dile says

            That’s maybe because I’m not an internet junkie like you, King of Dumb Asses.

    2. ForPeteSaiche says

      Larken, you make many good points for smaller government, but the concept that a society can eliminate government is completely idiotic. Remember that American government is of the people, by the people, for the people. No more can you have a great business without a CEO and management than can you have a great nation without intelligent directors, moderators, and leaders. Your vision seems to be short sighted, your world seems a form of isolationism, and your videos seem a bit larkish (if that’s a word).

      1. Karen Gaddy says

        The government we have today is no longer of the people, by the people and for the people. It is an enormous monstrosity with its tentacles in every facet of our lives. How did this country ever come to this point? I am so disillusioned that I doubt there is any way back.

    3. sandman says

      Ah be d be d be d THATS ALL FOLKS!!!! Thank You Croco! that was very telling! ism huh? like in progressivISM? liberalISM? I case anyone is wondering what I am about here, after the fist video, click on the “50 year old cartoon” and you will see what I mean!

    4. Rattlerjake says

      This guy is right, but he is the most obnoxious and irritating moron to try to listen to; about on the same plane as hearing Ovomit’s voice!

      1. hangem'high says

        They’ll always be those guys descending from apes!

  2. ForPeteSaiche says

    Flower arrangements are a non-essential and an art form. An artist’s rights to chose their commissions should not be infringed upon in a free society. If the courts penalize this woman for her right to freedom of expression, then it becomes a disincentive for various artists to operate in tax-paying business format. The government seems to be disabling it’s Constitutional goodness, with progressiveness, toward some form of totalitarianism.

    1. catman says

      Your comment “should not be infringed upon in a free society” is right on the mark. However, with this administration (regime) in power we are no longer a “free” country. We are that what the regime says we are and that is anything but free. Our police departments are being militarized, our military is being cut to ribbons, the Constitution is being trampled on daily and we have an out of control spending problem combined with an open border that is allowing anything and anybody to cross over and reap the rewards of mine and yours work. No, we are no longer a free society as we once were.
      The solution ?? Get rid of this regime by any means necessary and if that includes an armed insurrection, then so be it. Maybe some day our senior leaders in the military will see the light and do what needs to be done to bring this country back from the abyss we are standing at now.
      When hard working tax paying citizens can have their property, businesses and savings taken by a rogue government, without due process by an IMPARTIAL judicial system, then we are in very deep doo-doo. These “queers” are a very small minority, but very noisy. Combine them with all the liberal do-gooders and bleeding hearts with more money than brains and you have an excellent recipe for what is happening in this and many other countries around the world.
      MY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THIS COUNTRY AND ONCE AGAIN BLESS THE AMERICA I ONCE KNEW AND FOUGHT FOR !!!!
      Korean vet.

  3. rog363 says

    When a man can impregnate a man or a woman can impregnate a woman, only then will I consent to calling it a marriage. Calling it a marriage is a slap in the face to every married couple with children. I understand that there may be a chemical imbalance in the makeup of certain humans that causes them to favor those of the same sex and I understand that they want to live as normal a life as they can with their differences, so I would recommend calling their union something other then a marriage because in the eyes of to many, it will never be a marriage.

    1. Joe T says

      rog………..U have an excellent retort………….and GOD doesn’t condone same sex machinations.
      Mental/physical perversion is the norm in today’s times…………..sad, sad, sad.
      Entitlement from liberalism’s ideology is root cause of immorality…anything goes mantra!!!
      Evil is as evil does…..

      1. S Boles says

        Hmmm, should we be saying to all of our unwanted immigrants, “Welcome to the United Sodoms of America”?

        1. Joe T says

          NOT an epidemic as of yet…but growing with liberal entitlements.

          U.S. Adults Estimate That 25% of Americans Are Gay or …
          http://www.gallup.com/poll/…/adults-estimate-Americans-gay-lesbian.asp...
          May 27, 2011 – There is little reliable evidence about what percentage of the U.S. population is in reality gay or lesbian, due to few representative surveys.

          The demographics of sexual orientation and gender identity in the United States have come to light in the social sciences in recent decades. The Stonewall riots in 1969, marked the touchstone of the modern LGBT rights movement. Over time gay villages first emerged in various port cities in the United States. The presence of openly LGBT people, (many of whom previously publicly self-identified as heterosexual and cisgender due to stigma, discrimination, and cultural bias), gradually emerged in most urban areas as LGBT community organizations, businesses and institutions were established. As a consequence, LGBT persons experienced less overall bias by their peers and various anti-LGBT legal provisions were dismantled.

          According to the Williams Institute review conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.8 % of American adults identify themselves being in the LGBT community; wherein, (1.7%) identify as lesbian or gay, (1.8%) bisexual, and (0.3%) transgender, which corresponds to approximately 9 million adult[1] Americans as of the 2010 Census.[2] However, a measurable higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction, or experience, without identifying as LGBT. This makes it difficult to accurately record the demographics of LGBT community in the United States. Studies from various nations, however, including the U.S., covering varying time periods and age groupings, have produced a consistent statistical range of 1.2–5.6% of the adult population.

          1. kotoc says

            And your argument is WHAT?? That this low percentage of Americans can dictate what the majority of CHRISTIAN believers are entitled to because they have different viewpoints? According to the “statistics” you provided here, this is a MINORITY that feel the need to control the Constitutional rights and religious beliefs of the rest of us. According to your numbers, the 75% should be controlled by the complaints of 25%? REALLY?? I say, TAKE A HIKE!!! Move to Transexual Transvestite Transylvania and leave CHRISTIANS alone!!!

          2. Frost says

            Wow. Just wow. If you read the first part of his comment, he’s implying that same sex attraction is a growing epidemic–which it is /not/– and you completely missed the point of his comment. Excuse me while I go laugh.

          3. kotoc says

            You’re absolutely right, Frost…. I totally missed out on that… MY APOLOGIES!! I suppose I forgot about sarcasm… my apologies to Joe T. !!

          4. Joe T says

            Forgiven

          5. David says

            Haven’t you heard ? This is now a country where the MINORITY rules. 1 person can cry offense, and the courts will side with him and ignore 10,000. Pure liberal, Politically Correct BS !!!!!!!!!

          6. Joe T says

            Forgiven.

          7. kotoc says

            Thank you for being understanding on my sudden and impetuous outburst… I should have learned a LONG time ago to be able to recognize sarcasm and read between the lines. Thank you for forgiving me!

          8. Vern Davis says

            Joe the real facts are that the gay population is between 2 to 3% in the USA. And I bet when the Terrorist take over America those percentages will go way down.

          9. Joe T says

            I’m not a prude…but God did not create Adam and Steve..what would it have produced…NOTHING.
            Gays………….with all due respect to their mental dysfunctional is horrid and terminal for human race.

          10. Peter Sherman says

            if god produced only gays… you can be sure they would still be able to reproduce. there are lizards who can reproduce parthenogenically… there are fish that switch from male to female as they grow up… there are worms that are hermaphroditic … others that choose male/female with each bonding… this whole notion that the world is heterosexual is a vertebrate-biased notion. that said… for vertebrates… it seems to be mostly male and female. just don’t get too up on the whole hetero is the only way of the world. its just our bias that leads us to think so.

          11. OldPatriot32 says

            Yeah, right; you’ve conveniently placed humans on the animal level-get a brain!

          12. PayTheMan says

            to be blunt, the position i am espousing isn’t really all that much of a fringe position. its called: wait for it… biology! biology is the part of scientific study that focuses on life. so, it might not jive with your view of things… but its not like i’m talking gibberish. just a different interpretation of the world… an interpretation based on science. science: its worth looking into. but, more congenially, Joe T did respond thoughtfully to my post. he noted the distinction between the worldviews of science and religion.

          13. Joe T says

            Thanks….PayTheMan,
            You’re rather correct in your science analogy of living organisms and animals
            per se’; albeit, I was strictly referring to GOD’s divine creation of a Man+ and a Woman- as GOD’s beautiful method to procreate and enjoy each other with his wisdom and creative thought that only humans are capable of ….. using wisdom and creative thought to create nearly anything……i.e., a rocket ship to the Moon.
            best regards, Joe T

          14. PayTheMan says

            thoughtful response. i would say that we are not unique in using creativity but the levels we have achieved are, at least on this planet, unique. interesting… i am assuming not a type… the man+ and woman- never saw that… is that a yin-yang sort of thing or a + / – sort of thing?

          15. Joe T says

            Hey PTman….good chatting in vogue with U….

            OK…..what I am expounding upon is that humans, in toto, are superior to other primates; bar none; e.g.; Top 10 Things that Make Humans Special by Charles Q. Choi, Live Science Contributor | August 22, 2011 01:49 pm ET.

            Yes, maybe not unique per se’, but grandiose and superior in all other ways of thinking by being able to imagine an idea or object and being fully capable to produce said idea to/for benefit mankind in general.

            Some primates can achieve basic adding #’s etc, but visualizing higher math, e.g.; C2=A2+B2; and prime numbers*, and formulas used for, e.g.; 36 27 75% and finding the answer….. primates don’t have the mental acuity!

            In retrospect, the sign of infinity is a figure 8 sideways oo; sorry starting to digress into quantum physics, except they could not describe in 3 words the process of invisibility…to humans it simple…anyway you understand my basic premise….you and I PTMan are the top in GOD’s creation on Earth…..enjoy.

            Characteristics of a man and a woman….created by GOD…our friend indeed.

            the…
            highest topmost uppermost foremost leading principal preeminent greatest best finest elite top-notch number one blue-ribbon blue-chip upper chief principal main leading highest highest-ranking ruling commanding most powerful most important prime excellent superb superior choice select top-quality top-grade first-rate first-class grade A best finest premier superlative second to none nonpareil A1 top-notch blue-ribbon blue-chip number one maximum maximal greatest utmost…..all humans should extol GOD every second of their life.

            *Find the prime factors of 30;The prime factors of 30 are the numbers 2, 3, 5.

            Who would have guessed……maybe Obama?

            best regards, Joe T

            and remember.this PTMan…

            Life is sweet, but life is short,

            so open your mind, to the truth in your heart,

            For in a fleeting moment, that no one can hold,

            Tomorrow is gone….behold…..Veritas!>© 2014-15 joe t

          16. PayTheMan says

            Well joe t, there is more ro you than i guessed at first read. Yes, if i want help building a car or even a tree house, i will ask a human over a chimp. If i want help getting my kite out of the top of a tree, or finding food in a forest, or even finding medicinal plants without a nearby lab, i would ask a chimp. Humans are superior at so many things but it all depends on the topic. Flying, we aint that good … Not without our tools. Running, we are slow. Strength, we are weak. Ability to locate something hiding, we lose that too. But thinking our way out of many problems, or, critically, thinking our way INTO problems… We win on those fronts. Lets see if our brilliant but still somewhat primitive minds can help save our collective civilization. Good reading you… Provocative stuff.

          17. Joe T says

            PTMAN…don’t sell yourself short….you have a rapier wit to retort….and ponder!

            Paradoxical conundrum:
            Everything GOD does is good, even if it’s bad; hence POTUS Obama;
            An enigma by GOD.
            Faith in GOD is the supreme test of humanity.
            Veritas!

          18. Joe T says

            Togetherness

          19. David Moore says

            Bias or not, it is what it is. Mankind is not fish, or worms, or lizards. We were created in God’s image. That having been said, heterosexuality is a learned state just as homosexuality is. However, man’s instinct, the way we are wired as it were, is to be heterosexual. Some folks don’t like that but that doesn’t make it any less true. Some people are more inclined one way or the other but that doesn’t change the fact that nobody is born gay.

          20. PayTheMan says

            your points, david, perfectly reveal the core of the debate for most folks: the two world views that come in conflict over this issue (and some others). organized religion and the secular society. you well state the religious view on this topic. the secular view is different (basically: homosexuality is a common although aberrant behavior seen throughout social mammals of which humans are just the one we tend to find most interesting. Homosexuality is likely a combination of nurture AND nature (i.e., both environment and genetics) but definitely appears to have some genetic components.)

            As such, these two world views clash on homosexuality. Bring in the practice of marriage into the equation and the complex differences compound because we as a society have conflated marriage with a lot of social benefits like being able to visit your spouse on their death bed (something often denied gay couples) not to mention all the financial benefits. IF marriage came with NO benefits, a LOT of folks would not feel the need for gay marriage. IF gay folks ALSO got all those benefits (but could not actually marry) a LOT of folks would not push for gay marriage.

            complicated deep rooted stuff. many of the folks on this site are religious (as in organized religion). that is to be expected on a conservative site as religions doctrine is, by practice, conservative.

            so, i am beginning to bore myself… but you raise excellent points and reveal (in our discussion) the heart of the debate we have before us. interesting times. thanks for writing.

          21. OldPatriot32 says

            Watching his limp-wristed descent on the steps from USA1 gave me all the info I needed to realize what he is.

          22. Joe T says

            He’s a descendant of CAIN…..

          23. David Moore says

            I wouldn’t give him that much credit… Except for the color of course… And no I’m not racist, I am refering to the curse of blackness that God put on Cain which had nothing to do with skin color. He was cursed with a black heart which sums up Obuma perfectly

          24. David Moore says

            I couldn’t agree more Joe, but as you have said the libs don’t care about what’s right or wrong nor do they care about individual freedoms. What the libs TRULY care anout is thier own personal power and to get and keep it. To that end they will do anything to get votes. If that means turning this great nation into a western world Greece then so be it, just as long as they remain in power. The real question is, can the damage that they have wrought be undone. One example is Obama’s amnesty agenda. If he succeeds to the level he desires that will potentially give the libs twenty million new voters. That is enough votes to swing an election is it not? That thought alone terrifies me.

          25. Joe T says

            Astute thinking…….you are on the right path to their real intent.
            best regards, Joe T

          26. Joe T says

            Obama words and actions are traitorous to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
            Pay back time coming soon.

          27. David Moore says

            Are we EVER going to have a congress that has the stones to impeach the crooked scumbag? I think not, at least not as long as it is controlled by Democans and Republicrats. There are a few true conservatives up there but damn few. Both houses need a good shakeup, especially the Senate. It terrifies me to think what they will let this pompous ass do with his pen in the next two years. And where is the Supreme Court in all of this. Have they gone to sleep?

          28. Joe T says

            Thanks Vern,
            Terrorists not going to take over the USA, albeit it appears from POTUS’s words, actions, demeanor and machinations towards USA that he is one of them in a covert manner, which is becoming self-evident that he is not what he said he was nor what he promised to become POTUS. A wolf in sheep’s suits, charlatan.
            As for the gays…..it is what it is………mental acuity is devoid in ill choices in one’s life….you reap what you sow. Veritas.
            best regards, Joe T

          29. David Moore says

            The bottom line is this… The gov’ment nor anybody else should have the authority to tell miss Suzanne who she can or cannot do business with. If the gov’ment wins, (God I hope not) then a precedent will be established for future cases.

          30. Joe T says

            Thanks for input David….
            read and rip…
            The root cause of all of this chaos in our govt is liberalism and the Democratic agenda to acquire votes to stay in office….power corrupts and they are very corrupt….at least 9 out of 9 of them!

            The liberals keep thinking their delusional thoughts, it only hastens the demise of the liberal agenda and brings more of their base – the ones who are finally seeing the truth behind their rhetoric to the ranks of Conservatives voters. People are waking up to the fact that liberal “solutions” do more harm than good to our nation, our people and our economy so their solutions are based on lies, fabrications and their Gruber mentality that the American electorate is stupid, makes poor choices and only they can lead us to the promised land. A promised land where the US becomes a 3rd rate 3rd world 2 bit country of misery, no hope, no change and divided.

            February 17, 2008, reprint – Psychiatrist Confirms: Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder

            As a clinical and forensic psychiatrist, Lyle Rossiter has treated over 1,500 patients and examined over 2,700 civil and criminal cases. Turning his hand to political psychopathology, the author of The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness, has diagnosed an alarming percentage of the population as suffering from the grotesque form of mental derangement known by some as moonbattery

            The Liberal Mind is the first in-depth examination of the major political madness of our time: The radical left’s efforts to regulate the people from cradle to grave. To rescue us from our troubled lives, the liberal agenda recommends denial of personal responsibility, encourages self-pity and other-pity, fosters government dependency, promotes sexual indulgence, rationalizes violence, excuses financial obligation, justifies theft, ignores rudeness, prescribes complaining and blaming, denigrates marriage and the family, legalizes all abortion, defies religious and social tradition, declares inequality unjust, and rebels against the duties of citizenship. Through multiple entitlements to unearned goods, services and social status, the liberal politician promises to ensure everyone’s material welfare, provide for everyone’s healthcare, protect everyone’s self-esteem, correct everyone’s social and political disadvantage, educate every citizen, and eliminate all class distinctions. Radical liberalism thus assaults the foundations of civilized freedom. Given its irrational goals, coercive methods and historical failures, and given its perverse effects on character development, there can be no question of the radical agenda’s madness. Only an irrational agenda would advocate a systematic destruction of the foundations on which ordered liberty depends. Only an irrational man would want the state to run his life for him rather than create secure conditions in which he can run his own life. Only an irrational agenda would deliberately undermine the citizen’s growth to competence by having the state adopt him. Only irrational thinking would trade individual liberty for government coercion, sacrificing the pride of self-reliance for welfare dependency. Only a madman would look at a community of free people cooperating by choice and see a society of victims exploited by villains. [From The Liberal Mind; The Psychological Causes of Political Madness by Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr., MD]

          31. OldPatriot32 says

            Joe T, please post that on Facebook under this article, for the world to see the madness rampant in society today!

          32. Joe T says

            OldPatriot32
            You (or anyone else) can copy and paste any article I post ….anywhere.
            I am rather inundated with communications in other realms…also.
            best regards, Joe T
            PS: if you need to know how to copy and paste….let me know.

          33. David Moore says

            Thanks Joe,
            Let me start off by saying that I am not anti gay. Having said that I believe that homosexuality in ANY form is an abomination, I believe that same sex marriage is WRONG! I can’t stand flambouyant queers. By the same token I can’t stand people who are heterosexual that show it off any time they can. There are some things that should be kept private.
            When someone we care about goes missing then we search for them. It doesn’t matter what their sexual orientation is we search for them because we care for them.
            Homosexuality is not a race therefore they should not have the same protections under the law that people of different races have. I am outraged about the legal case surrounding Suzanne the florist in Washington. If I were wealthy I would happily pay for all of her legal fees just to make sure these idiot gays lost.
            D

          34. Joe T says

            Point well taken…………As for the gays…..it is what it is………mental acuity is devoid in ill choices in one’s life….you reap what you sow.
            best regards, Joe T

          35. alaskat says

            David, I’m with you. God instructs us to oppose sin but love the sinner. I’d love to see someone or some organization like ACLJ or Liberty Counsel step up to defend Suzanne the florist. I support these legal agencies that protect American freedom from misguided tyrants. A private business has always had the right to refuse service to anyone, privately, no explanation required. While the state can make paying taxes mandatory and enforce cleanliness rules in businesses serving food, the idea that the state can force a citizen of the U.S. to do business with everyone who requests it is absurd, wrong, and morally repugnant. Anti-discrimination laws are an abomination and should be banned before 70 percent of us wind up in jail.
            We need to stop with just the one law protecting all people from discrimination. The discrimination would have to cause real harm or break existing laws, not just hurt someone’s feelings. Specifying groups or what constitutes discrimination is an endless can of worms that divides a nation and destroys it, which is the current administration’s intent.

        2. Thaaff says

          S Boles, why should we say anything to illegal invaders, except which bus to take that will take them back across the border? I couldn’t resist throwing this out! 🙂

          1. S Boles says

            Great point!!!

    2. guest says

      To use “gay” and “marriage” in the same sentence is ridiculous!

      1. Graybeest1938@yahoo.com says

        The voting is Obvious! America voted for Change in 2014 but nothing in DC has changed. Remember the sell outs in 2016!

        1. gregz says

          Yes it has. Things got worse!

          1. ward says

            AND 6 years of bo proves the “got worse” that he created by his abuse of power … !

          2. Joe T says

            Thank the POTUS

        2. Gary Grimm says

          we can’t wait any longer.

          1. nevergiveup says

            You’re right, we can’t.

        3. Joe T says

          AGREED

        4. Michael Dennewitz says

          And the Republicans are now as demented as Ovomit is. They kissed ass to regain the power and then threw every damned one of us under the bus!!!

      2. Joseph C Moore USN Ret says

        They are not the misappropriated word “gay”, they are homosexual. Homosexuality is an abomination in the face of G*d, whether you read the Torah or the Old Testament. (Jewish or Christian translations of the books of Moses).

        1. bill says

          or the koran

          1. john robel says

            I spell it KURRan

          2. OldPatriot32 says

            CURR-RAN

        2. 3ronald1 says

          CORRECT! And, people should read Leviticus – where God’s word spells it out. Paraphrased, it says that “if a man shall lay with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination” and punishable by death. (He didn’t create Adam and Steve in the beginning – for an obvious reason.) Definition of, and punishment for, incest and adultery is spelled out in there, too. Pretty serious and clear language. We must not forget what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the REASON these two cities were destroyed. Our time will come. I am surprised it has not already happened.
          Our great country is the most powerful and benevolent in the World. Our elected officials in Washington are allowing it to be diminished in so many areas (civil and military) by the current Administration. Our military leaders know what to do and can protect us from enemies, but their hands are being tied by the POTUS and his cronies (sheep). Voters must educate themselves on candidates/issues in 2016 and vote wisely! We can still save our Nation.
          Ronald M. Brown USAF Ret

          1. Joe T says

            3ronald1…
            Strictly referring to GOD’s divine creation of a Man+ and a Woman- as GOD’s beautiful method to procreate and enjoy each other with his wisdom and creative thought that only humans are capable of ….. using wisdom and creative thought to create nearly anything……i.e., a rocket ship to the Moon.
            best regards, Joe T

          2. Michael Dennewitz says

            And I really wish people would stop referring to them as gays.. During the middle and late 1800s there was a time that they referred to as the “gay 90s.” A HAPPY time. GAY – HAPPY ! Now these people have stolen the word, just to cushion the effect of being QUEER might have on people. They may be gay being QUEERS, but this is exactly what they are, QUEERS! And QUEER means ODD! Aptly so, it is terribly ODD to see one man ramming another in the rear. ODD – QUEER !! Stop degrading the word gay, call them what they really are…..
            Q U E E R S !!!

      3. ward says

        bo’s creation by his own whims & ways to screw the U.S. with his dictator regime … !

        1. Gary Grimm says

          with the GOP leadership standing by, looking at the ground.

          1. Michael Dennewitz says

            No Gary, they will be leafing thru their check books and admiring their balances!!

      4. Conservative says

        One cannot depend on the person they vote for is actually the person they portray themselves to be or even want to be but once they get in office they are compelled to walk in lockstep with the ‘leadership’ who can make or break them in politics. Making waves in the Democratic Party is forbidden and punished.

      5. Tiger says

        A farce but this was predicted thousands of years ago in Scripture and America the first country in this world to say this.

    3. Jimmy King says

      Who cares what it is in the “eyes of many” And who cares what you think. Be married, or don’t me married I don’t care what you do. I’m happily married. Have been so for 18 years. Have 3 great kids. None of that changes if the 2 ladies in the next town over want to marry also. Everyone preaches about States rights, individual freedoms and smaller government. If you truly believe that, keep the government out of our bed rooms and our business.

      Its not a slap in anyone’s face Get over it

      1. paulnordin@aol.com says

        I agree with you, Jimmy King.

        1. LastGasp says

          You are agreeing with a paid troll.

          1. paulnordin@aol.com says

            Dear LastGasp, I do not care what he/she is. I am just agreeing with what he/she said.

      2. RMCSRET says

        Well Jimmy in that vein then the Lady with the Flower shop and the Baker in
        Colorado I believe should then have the right to say NO I am not providing flowers or
        baking a cake for this occasion.

        1. Peter Sherman says

          that’s a tough issue you raise… and i don’t think should be conflated with the “get over it” comment to which you are responding. your question raised is “should we have the right to discriminate against minorities (of whatever type)?” i don’t think we should be because that is a well worn path to division, fascism, scapegoating, and even genocidal attempts). but, clearly many on this site believe that discrimination (so long as it is not against the dominant paradigm (white, christian, hetero etc) is okay. when placed into that language, do you still believe people should be able to legally disciminate?

          1. Jimmy King says

            No, the people on here think it should be ok to discriminate against people that they do not believe are equal to them.

          2. Peter Sherman says

            see the post from the proud us vet above… if i understand him correctly, it speaks volumes.

          3. Proud US vet/American says

            I do not believe it is discrimination if you “Reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.”. This Washington lawsuit IS infringing on the Florist’s rights as well. She has the right to do, or not to do business with whomever she chooses.

          4. Peter Sherman says

            a guy named noBS educated me on some of this and i am starting to see a point within all of this. SO LONG AS (and that is the important part) that the service / good is NOT considered a basic human right (e.g., housing, water, loans, food, education, healthcare etc.) than it seems to me that people can be somewhat specific in their clientele. noBS raised an even more nuanced point: if this woman sells flowers and a gay couple comes in and buys the conventional bouquet that she has sitting in the display, then she should not refuse selling it. However, if they ask her for something customized, above and beyond the standard product she offers to everyone, than maybe she can rightfully refuse service. Just to be sure, other stores can refuse service to heteros or white folks or christians or whomwever. JUST SO LONG AS what is being denied is NOT a human right and/or a basic service/product.

            This will be touchy to police and regulate but… theoretically… it sounds like a solid idea to me.

            to get to your comment… its not so much what you or i believe.. it is a question for our courts and their interpretation of our constitution. But, as someone from the other side of the political spectrum than most here… i think there is a viable middle ground.

          5. Proud US vet/American says

            This middle ground you speak of, must, be found whether you lean right or left.
            With that being said, All person’s must be afforded their personal beliefs/religion even if they run contrary to the majority. It is only when the minority or the majority try to push their beliefs on the rest that we have conflicts and opposition to the laws. At some point in everyone’s life they will have to stand and take a side, whether they like it or not! My views are this-the LBGT are trying to cram their beliefs down the throats of Christians for the sole purpose of gaining acceptance. To my way of thinking, this is very counter-productive and only makes their cause worse. As far as their to be LGBT right is concerned, they have got to accept the fact that not all people see normal as they do.
            The only thing this red-blooded, patriotic, Constitution believing American will not bend or assimilate to is the Progressive’s push towards an Islam based Sharia Law in this country. I am ready and willing to take up arms against other Americans to prevent this country from losing our Constitution and what this country means ans stands for in the eyes of the world.
            GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
            MOLON LABE

          6. Peter Sherman says

            super interesting response. a few thoughts and then sleep. of course i agree (as a bleeding heart) that all people should be encouraged to practice peacefully their religion (no matter which one) even if it bucks the majority or even if it bucks a minority. one reason i appreciate Judaism is they never proselytize in that they don’t even try to share their beliefs (let alone foist them). if i were gay, the first thing i would promote would be some alternative form of union that provides ALL the rights and privileges and responsibilities of marriage… but i would just call it something different and not try to pretend it was equal to religious marriage within a church (e.g, Catholicism) that doesn’t accept that. i have no problem given them the privileges but don’t feel it need be called one thing or another (or necessarily treated as one thing or another) just for the sake of “equality”. About the progressives pushing Sharia… speaking as one of them who works at a progressive place and hangs with progressive folk… there is nothing further from our minds nor the truth of our philosophy. In fact, totally the opposite: we want freedom and democracy and equal rights and equal protections and getting big government out of our lives and bedrooms and pocketbooks. We are as disgusted and afraid of any fundamentalist extreme approach that defies the wisdom of the constitutional rights…as anyone else. Somewhere in all the media and political slog, that message got twisted around likely by folks who benefit from our division. I know the extremists are banking on our division in diverse ways…. the more we squabble between ourselves the stronger THEY are. i’ll bet that you and i disagree on a whole lot of details, but when we get to the meat of the issues and our positions, in face to face dialogue, i bet the two sides have more in common than in opposition. we are all americans who love this country. I love it by showing my desire for it to be better and i critique it for that very reason. isn’t that what the people on this site are doing too? we don’t see eye to eye… but we are all aiming for a stronger, more democratic, more free, more responsible, less entitled, more constitutional, more peaceful america. we all, at the core, want the same things. good talking with you. now its time to go to sleep.

          7. Thaaff says

            Proud US Vet, AMEN to that!! Why have our law enforcement officers been prevented from investigating Mosques? We have a Muslim Brotherhood so-called ¨President¨ who needs to be run out of the White House pronto!

          8. Peter Sherman says

            okay… i just can resist. you are mentioning that you are ready and willing to fight against other american citizens to defend what you believe what YOU believe this country means and stands for. That is fascinating to me… because isn’t that far closer to sharia law than the democratic debates of a free society that I support? Think about it… to hold a particular view in a pluralistic society and be willing to fight (with deadly intent) those who disagree with you… just saying… to me that sounds really close to sharia law. i don’t mean to be offensive… i am just making a logical observation of the words you have written. I, for one, would not be willing to kill other american citizens (or anyone else for that matter) just because the did not share all of my philosophical and/or political beliefs.

          9. Proud US vet/American says

            The difference is—I am fighting for free enterprise, capitalism, free speech, religion, press, the freedom to have private guns and the freedom to criticize our government and its policies! I have been to countries that are governed by religious zealots and the people are nothing more than slaves to be killed whenever. If American citizen’s threaten this, my family or the Constitution of this country that I swore a life long oath to protect “against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”, then I will fight against other Americans-it won’t be the first time, or did you forget the Revolution, and the Civil war?

          10. PayTheMan says

            i hear you. i don’t fight for all the things you fight for… for example… the capitalism is a bastardization of what adam smith envisioned a long while ago and would likely call for a recall if he saw what we did with it (e.g., he wanted the consumer to be completely well informed… we have no idea what impacts we have when we buy something; he wanted there to be no subsidies (i.e., a free market) … ours is so full of subsidies there is nothing free about it etc.) But, ii hear you. i don’t want to return to another civil war and i feel there are enemies that are more rabid in the foreign realms than in the domestic ones… maybe that’s the big difference here. I am more concerned about the islamic extremists etc. etc. than those democratic folks with whom i may disagree (even strongly) here at home. but, don’t mistake me… i am no pacifist. a peacenik maybe… but no pacifist. i’ll do all i can not to fight… but if fight is my only option… i’ll do what i have to do. so… at one level… i hear you.

          11. 3ronald1 says

            I agree wholeheartedly with you. If the florist and baker MUST provide flowers/cake to homosexuals…then shall we go further and say that those businesses which post a sign “no shirt, no shoes, no service” must serve shirtless, barefoot customers? That would be ridiculous and would destroy their business! We are becoming a society of fools and idiots. Let’s go back to following the laws we have in place that protect our citizens. The business owners have the right to refuse service and that should not change.

          12. RMCSRET says

            Well Peter I guess then you do not mind what the Obama Administration does on
            daily basis when it degrades the Non Black or Hispanic communities of this nation. I also do not DISCRIMNATE against anyone. I do thought believe that
            GOD GAVE ME and EVERYONE ELSE the right to believe in things that you and
            others seem to believe is discrimination. If this is what you believe is it
            discrimination for a store owner to say “No shirt, No Shoes, No Service”?
            Very much the same thing here. I also say that “No Guns Allowed also
            is the DISCRIMINATION against anyone who wants to carry a weapon with
            them at all times.

          13. Peter Sherman says

            good comment. as a progressive, it bothers me when anyone (of any variety) is degraded… white, christian, male … anyone. But, given all the diversity and all the degrading, one has to prioritize a bit given limited time/funds etc. so, the dominant groups in control over many decades are not my first line of attention. But, that does not stop me (and other progressives) from being disturbed by degradation of any variety. The problem with your analogies, is that shirts and shoes and guns are behaviors… choices… and not fundamental aspects of one’s makeup. not as fundamental as, say, gender or skin color. So, there the analogy, while provocative, falls flat for me as it doesn’t cut to the core of the issue. hope that helps to clarify my position. interesting thoughts. thanks.

          14. Proud US vet/American says

            PayTheMan-
            By your comment you have classified discrimination into different degrees and classes. What is the difference if you discriminate on Religion or skin color or morals values? Is there truly a difference in the type of discrimination one may impose on another? Or, is discrimination just discrimination? This is one thing that has always confused me. Why? Because one person’s definition of discrimination may not be the same as someone from another country! Where do “WE THE PEOPLE” draw the line and define what real discrimination is?
            What I find as normal or acceptable may be totally absurd and discriminatory to you, and vise versa. Obama and Holder have a predisposition to allow Islam or Sharia laws or values easier than (for lack of a better term) American values or customs. Now this is just my opinion, and it has been brought to my attention at times that I am too “stiff” and need to lighten up, but as you know, we always think we are just fine the way we are. LOL

          15. PayTheMan says

            got me thinking. for me, all discrimination is a negative… it stereotypes people or behaviors or ethnicity or viewpoints etc as if they are a monolithic entity… but they generally are not. but, when we two rights (each legit) bonk into one another… discussions must be had and maybe decisions made. so, while i don’t like it any more than you… we recognize it as a fact. i don’t buy into that obama and sharia law stuff… not one bit… but the government has been disappointing to folks on both sides. for you… he is tearing down the fabric of america… for me he is not moving us fast enough in a good enough direction (not a direction you would likely appreciate). but about that last point… thinking that we are each fine just the way we are… crap… i sure do suffer from that syndrome. try to not take myself too seriously… after all… no one else does… why should i? take care…. good reading you. its a good op to converse with people we never would converse with under normal circumstances. my respect for you and some others through this site grows… despite the entrenched differences.

          16. OldPatriot32 says

            Pay, discrimination is discrimination, whether it be over color, religion, your hairdo or lack of it, or against being armed, or unarmed, blind, deaf, one-legged, etc. etc.
            Hope you get my point.

          17. PayTheMan says

            yes… and its a good one but i still think that in this complex world where one’s rights often butts up against another’s similar rights… the court system (or the “court of society”) has to sometimes play favorites. For my taste, i would rather defend someone who is discriminated against because of their unchangeable attributes like skin color than their changeable ones like asking for service in a store without wearing a shirt. With that as a base, then one has to ask if homosexuality is a choice (like yelling obscenities in a library) or is an unchanging attribute (like having one leg). if it is an unchanging attribute (as a lot of data now suggests) then i would hold it in higher esteem than a religious store owner’s right to discriminate. If the homosexuality is a choice, then it falls as equal to the store owner’s and given our general tolerance (or supposed tolerance) of religious conviction in this country, i would have to side with the store owner. so, its nuanced… and depends upon a lot of details.

            BUT, what if the store owner was a muslim who did not want to sell to a christian… then its religion against religion and a wash for me. or a religious person who did not want to sell to a hetero (that’s the closest, albeit, unlikeliest analogy)… would all the people on this site stand up to defend that with equal energy? i doubt it.

          18. RMCSRET says

            So by your own comment you have just stated that like Gay folks who you
            say are born gay and cannot change then by that same thought process
            a Child molester, Murderer, or any type of person must be given the same
            rights then. It is in there make up according to you to molest, murder etc.
            or do you mean something else?

          19. PayTheMan says

            The essential difference is the gay couple is not hurting anyone, the others you mention are. Its the same thing as i can swing my fist all i want until it comes close to your face. At that moment, my right to swing is sharply curtailed.

          20. RMCSRET says

            So pray tell how is the Florist hurting the gay person anymore than the
            gay person is hurting the florist like you state? Seems to me that the Gay is
            inflicting harm on the Florist by denying her Religious rights?

          21. PayTheMan says

            of course, we are not to say about such things… but to my personal view… not at all. but, at a larger population level… the florist is discriminating by the definition of the word. if she is disciminating based upon some personal attribute that is (or should be) protected by the constitution, then her actions are unconstitutional and in this experiment in democracy… the society has an opinion about that. the gay person is not denying her her religious rights… just how she acts upon them (i think that would be the argument and as subtle as it is… it is meaningful to the courts). like, i can have all the disgusting thoughts i want… but when i begin to act upon them THEN and only then does the law step in. she can have all the religious thoughts she wants… she is just not allowed to act on them when her actions trouble a protected group of folks. that’s really it. personally, i think the whole thing is blown way out into a political ping pong match… but, that is the way of cultural evolution. we are evolving and there are teething pains with such changes. good question. do you think i addressed it appropriately?

          22. RMCSRET says

            So you say that even though the CONSTITUTION Plainly states that she
            has a affirmed right to her religious beliefs since you or like minded
            people believe she dosent then in your mind she dosent is that pretty
            much what you are saying? If so they we as a country of laws have just went
            away and now we are a country run by the thoughts and wishes of the mob.

          23. PayTheMan says

            no… not quite. she can BELIEVE whatever she wants. but her ACTIONS upon her believes are regulated.

          24. RMCSRET says

            Wrong only in the mind of the LGBT community and the Liberal Progressives in
            Congress and the courts does the First Amendment not protect Beliefs and
            Actions. In reality it protects both whether we like it or not.

          25. OldPatriot32 says

            Pay, with your thinking, we should be inviting ISIS into our homes for a visit, and coffee and doughnuts! Then they could exit with our heads on a platter! Wake up!

        2. Jimmy King says

          But they don’t Not in the United States. A for profit business does not have the right to discriminate

          1. Proud US vet/American says

            But, they do “have the right to refuse service to anyone.” By NOT allowing this you (the courts) are discriminating against the Florist’s rights.

          2. Jimmy King says

            There is NO RIGHT to discriminate Vet.

          3. Peter Sherman says

            well that’s the whole point of why this is interesting: we have two conflicting rights. to go deep, its the right of one to practice her own interpretation of her chosen religion. on the other side, its the right of people to be treated without discrimination based upon their minority status. Both have rights… question is … which do we as a society champion under what circumstance?

            like abortion: two patients: both with opposing interests. do we defend a defenseless child that depends upon a mother’s body (and unknown support thereafter)? or do we defend a (sometimes defenseless) woman who can’t or won’t or doesn’t want to produce the baby.

            regardless of the opinions… that core opposition is why its all so interesting to debate and why no ONE side can have a slam dunk.

        3. disqus_C6fGXmCFNc says

          you are right if I do not want to serve you then that is the way it is and I do not care if you are a minority or not. I do not care if it were the pos oblowme either.

      3. Frost says

        Exactly.

        It astounds me that all people take away from this is, “How dare they want to get married!” The issue in this story is that the florist supported her religious beliefs by refusing service to a customer–this is her right. Why do people freak out about a same sex couple getting married/having a civil union?

        To the article, if this had happened to a bigger company, it would have been an open-shut case. Businesses have the right to refuse service. I hope she wins her case. But people also have the right to sue, even if it won’t win. She must also be informed of any offers one of the opposing sides comes up with, even if they know she won’t take.

        1. Jimmy King says

          Frost, according to the US Constitution, you are wrong She does not have that right

          1. Frost says

            But she does have that right. We covered this in Business Law. Businesses have the right to refuse service. How do you think Chick-Fil-Lay (or however it’s spelled) is getting away with refusing to serve gay customers in Utah? It’s their right.

          2. Jimmy King says

            Not sure who is teaching your Business Law class, but Chick Fil-A does not refuse service to anyone. Gay or straight.

          3. Frost says

            Yes, they do. I live in Utah; they’ve refused service to people who “looked” or “acted” gay, even if they weren’t. And by this, I mean that was their reason for kicking out two highschool boys who decided to test if that was true. One of them gave their friend a piggyback ride. (Thanks for the spelling, btw)

            There’s also the fact that where I work, we have the right to refuse service to customers in the form of kicking them out, usually for disturbing other customers. We’re allowed to do this for something as small as being overly loud in the. Gameroom–and it’s completely legal.

          4. Jimmy King says

            Kicking someone out for disturbing other customers, or for piggyback rides etc, is NOT the same as discriminating against them, or refusing to serve them, based on who they are. A movie theater can toss you if you kept shinning a flashlight in peoples eyes, but that’s not discrimination

          5. Frost says

            You don’t seem to be understanding me. In the case of those two highschoolers, their reason wasn’t, “they were goofing off and disturbing the customers.” It was because they thought the two were gay.

            Though you should be interested to know that I decided to actually look up what the law says on the matter. The answer is: it’s state-to-state. So maybe that’s where the miscommunication comes from, but federal law only covers discrimination based on race, skin color, religion, national origin, and disability. Everything else /should/ be left to the states. In court cases not covered by federal law, they must decide if it was arbitrary according to state law.

          6. Jimmy King says

            And what did the 2 boys do in response to being kicked out? Did they bring a civil action?

          7. Frost says

            no, of course not. They weren’t glory hounds, trying to get a moment in the spotlight. They were testing a policy made by the owner of the establishment, which I mentioned previously. Not that it necessarily had to be them to bring this up in court. The article proves it could have been the Utah Attorney General.

            My original point in commenting is that this is ridiculous. Her reason for refusing service was based on her religious beliefs and therefore not arbitrary; that’s why I support her winning, even though I don’t believe the same. Religious beliefs should never be considered arbitrary. And you’ve somehow managed to derail that by nitpicking over something that’s decided state-to-state, from someone who’s agreeing with you, that no, this is not a slap in the face to either of us!

          8. Jimmy King says

            Ok you’re talking about 2 different things. I said it isn’t legal to deny service to anyone based upon their sexual orientation. You said it was because it was done to these 2 boys in Utah. Well just because it was done, doesn’t mean they had a right to do it. It was never challenged.

            It is not a State by State issue. In fact Arizona tried to pass a bill last year making it legal for businesses to discriminate and Gov Brewer vetoed it before it could take effect, because she knew it wouldn’t withstand scrutiny and would have been heel on Arizona

          9. Frost says

            You really think theirs was the only incident? And yes, it is state-to-state, if you don’t believe me, look it up. That law wouldn’t have passed scrutiny if it was blatantly saying they could discriminate against someone, but what you need to watch is what current laws /don’t/ mention as a protected class.

            You seem to have a distinct inability to put together the information you’re taking in. Baka.

          10. Jimmy King says

            Your information is wrong.

          11. Frost says

            Keep your head in the clouds for all I care. At least I can manage to look it up.

          12. Jimmy King says

            I do too. Why don’t you post a link to your amazing research Mr Dershowitz

          13. noBS says

            I live in GA (the home of Chick-fil-A), so I’m not familiar with the situation in Utah. I have relatives who worked for and retired from CFA, and have NEVER heard of a single instance of customer discrimination. CFA also has openly gay employees (they can’t display it on the job, but they are treated like any other employee). Can you post a reference link to the incident(s) in Utah?

          14. Frost says

            unfortunately, I’m on my phone. It might be because it’s Utah, but somehow I don’t think it is. And how, exactly, are they supposed to show they’re gay? There wouldn’t be anything different about them unless they were wearing makeup, and that’s more likely they’re transsexual. Also, if anything did make it to court, in any state, it likely wouldn’t have made the news and employees wouldn’t be allowed to talk about it, in case they’re called in to witness or make a statement.

          15. noBS says

            Your post stated, “Yes, they do. I live in Utah; they’ve refused service to people who “looked” or “acted” gay, even if they weren’t.”.

            Above, I asked that you post your source. Is this just something you “heard”, or is there a newspaper/magazine article, or an online reference to back it up? If so, please post the source.

          16. Frost says

            And I’m still on my phone, so that’s a bit difficult. The comment aboutChick-Fil-A’s policy made local news at the time. Sorry I can’t remember which one. The two boys I brought up as an example are friends of my boyfriend’s. They did it because they didn’t believe they would be kicked out over it. They didn’t go to court over it, which seems to be everyone’s default reaction or expectation; they didn’t whine to the news for their fifteen minutes of fame, mostly because they thought it would turn into “he sadi-she said”. They simply decided not to go back to any of their establishments.

      4. LastGasp says

        Then you believe she is right.

    4. jackw97224 says

      Black’s Law 4th ed. makes it clear that marriage is between a man and a woman. So long as the homosexuals use the law, the must use all of it, and that means they can’t deny the legal defnitions and the case law support for them. In fact the homsexuals have already exposed their duplicity in picking and choosing.

      MARRIAGE. Marriage, as distinguished from the agreement to marry and from the act of becoming married, is the civil status, condition, or relation of one man and one woman united in law for life, for the discharge to each other and the community of the duties legally incumbent on those whose association is founded on the distinction of sex. 1 Bish.Mar. & Div. § 3; Collins v. Hoag & Rollins, 121 Neb. 716, 238 N.W. 351, 355; Allen v. Allen, 73. Conn. 54, 46 A. 242, 49 L.R.A. 142.

      A contract, according to the form prescribed by law, by which a man and a woman, capable of entering into such contract, mutually engage with each other to live their whole lives together in the state of union which ought to exist between a husband and wife. Shelf. Mar. & Div. 1; Seuss v. Schukat, 358 Ill. 27, 192 N.E. 668, 671, 95 A.L.R. 1461.

      The word also signifies the act, ceremony. Or formal proceeding by which persons take each other for husband and wife. Davis v. Davis, 119 Con. 194, 175 A. 574, 575.

      In old English law, marriage is used in the sense of “maritagium,” (q.v.) or the feudal right enjoyed by the lord or guardian in hivalry of disposing of his ward in marriage.

      HUSBAND.
      A married man; one who has a lawful wife living. The correlative f “wife.” People v. Snyder, 353, Ill. 184, 187 N.E. 158, 160, 88 A.L.R. 1012.

      MARRIAGE LICENSE.
      A license or permission granted by public authority to persons who intend to intermarry, usually addressed to the minister or magistrate who is to perform the ceremony, or, in general terms, to any one authorized to solemnize marriages. By statute in some jurisdictions, it is made an essential prerequisite to the lawful solemnization of the marriage. [emphasis mine]

      WIFE. A woman united to a man by marriage; a woman who has a husband living and undivorced.
      Homosexual “marriage” corrupts communications as people do not immediately know who is calling himself the “wife” and who the “husband,” notwithstanding the definition to the contrary. Socrates was condemned to drink the Hemlock for the alleged crime of corrupting the minds of the youth, while in fact he did not. However, the homosexuals have corrupted the the definition of marriage, consorting with judges, and so have earned and deserve the Hemlock.

      1. Jimmy King says

        Black’s law isn’t binding precedent. It is a dictionary and traditionally that is how marriage was defined

        1. LastGasp says

          And you have the authority to make that statement?

          1. Jimmy King says

            Black’s Law Dictionary defines “precedent” as a “rule of law established for the first time by a court for a particular type of case and thereafter referred to in deciding similar cases.”

          2. Jimmy King says

            Do I have the authority for calling it a dictionary?

      2. rog363 says

        You sir have stated the facts very clearly, unfortunately there are many out there that refuse to listen to the law. If a man can procreate with another man or a woman with another woman then I would deem to call it a marriage but they refuse to understand the laws of nature, there for I cannot consider them as married

    5. paulnordin@aol.com says

      I am married to the opposite sex and homosexual marriage is not a slap in my face. Marriage ought to be available to any two people, whatever their sex or sexual preferences are.

      1. LastGasp says

        A civil union should be available to anybody. Holy matrimony is reserved for a man and a woman.

        1. Frost says

          According to Christianity, yes. But there are recognized religions in the U.S. that have no problem with marrying two people of the same sex. Even if the state wwon’t give you an official marriage license, they will still give you the ceremony.

    6. kathy says

      So a man that takes multiple underage wives is ok but 2 people who love each other, regardless of gender, is not? Your Catholic priests that abuse little boys is covered up is ok? You people have no idea what love is and you’re the sickos.

    7. ward says

      THE gay sure as hell haven’t merited the true definition of marriage by the dictionary or GODS will, so why don’t they call there union what it is the s.s.h. or same sex hitch or n.p.k., no proxy kids …!

    8. ward says

      What is a “normal life” with gays when science says that gay genes are abnormal birth defects ..?

    9. tinkerunique says

      Sodomy used to be illegal. NOW it gets promoted.

      1. rog363 says

        You have Obama and this administration to thank for this.

      2. Jimmy King says

        Women voting used to be illegal as well. However some of us have evolved

    10. Joe T says

      rog363….thanks
      Strictly referring to GOD’s divine creation of a Man+ and a Woman- as GOD’s beautiful method to procreate and enjoy each other with his wisdom and creative thought that only humans are capable of ….. using wisdom and creative thought to create nearly anything……i.e., a rocket ship to the Moon.
      best regards, Joe T

      1. rog363 says

        I thank you also Joe for your understanding of God’s law and the laws of nature, unlike that fellow jimmy King, who doesn’t seem to care one way or another what you, I or others think. That’s what, I believe is wrong nowadays, to many just not caring. He then states that if the two women in the next town marry nothing changes, I beg to differ with his way of thinking, he says that he has three great children, he doesn’t seem to get it, that is what changes, they cannot bare their own children, so how, in gods name, can it be called a marriage …

  4. MILES E DRAKE says

    It is clear that militant homosexuals have become the Navy SEALS of the atheist movement. Because same-sex unions and marriages are problematic for a number of religions, this has been chosen as the battering ram with which the tyrannical state and the anti-religious elite that runs it will batter down the doors of the churches and eventually raze them as their heroes did in Russia, China, Cuba and Cambodia. In the end, they will just be another group of infidels to be beheaded by all-conquering muslims, but not all Christians will get to see this moment of karmic justice. As long as this country is ruled by a muslim puppet regime staffed by atheist metrosexuals, the state will wage war on religious belief; as with so many of our problems, the answer lies in regime change.

    1. OSAMA OBAMA says

      Navy S.E.A.L.s? I wouldn’t use this heroic, patriotic bunch and limp wristed, sissyfied, leftists in the same sentence

    2. Peter Sherman says

      take your comment in reverse… and see if that makes you feel different. currently, one could argue, a militant group of hetero, religious fundamentalists are attempting to tell another group who they can be, what they can do, what rights they have etc. that is not just hypothetical as you suggest but, within measure, what IS happening. does that trouble you at all?

  5. IMPCALGI says

    OK, so let me try to understand: “tolerance” means “do everything our way, or we’ll do our best to crush you”. And “diversity” means “you can think whatever you like, just not out loud”. Really? And this handful of loud mouthed bullies think that’s how they get to treat the majority of Americans? And they really think that the backlash when it comes is not going to be a tidal wave? And they really imagine they will see the other side of that?

    Keep pushing, ObamaNazi thugs; when you finally get the reaction you apparently are just thirsting for, don’t say that you weren’t warned.

    Ideals Mastering Power Creating All Life GOD IS
    http://www.impcalgi.com

    1. hangem'high says

      Look what the patriot act got us “NSA” and drones over New York!

      1. Jimmy King says

        Yeah thanks Mr Bush

        1. kotoc says

          Wrong….. “Thanks Mr. OBAMA!!!”

          1. LastGasp says

            It is a troll, well known on this site.

      2. IMPCALGI says

        Bush…blah blah blah…Cheney…blah blah blah… yeah, so it’s perfectly OK for Obama to repeat EVERY horrible thing they did and make them worse, as long you don’t have to open your eyes and see the world as it actually is

        1. hangem'high says

          “The kicker” The patriot act was supposed to be temporary but once Obama declared victor over the Taliban he left it in place and turned it on the Christians conservative’s and citizens of America.
          Nap time is over!

        2. hangem'high says

          That’s the problem my eyes are wide open!

  6. Robyn A. Goldstein says

    RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FOR WHOM. i AM ALL FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. YOU OPEN A BUSINESS TO SELLING TO THE PUBLIC, THEN WHO IS BEING DENIED THEIR FREEDOM. tHEIR ARE CERTAIN BUILDINGS REFERRED TO AS “wHITE GLOVES BECAUSE THEY LIMIT PURCHASING POWER TO A FEW, THERE ARE SCHOOLS THAT ONCE DESCRIMINATED AGAINST BLACKS AND ORGANIZATIONS AGAINST LETTING WOMEN IN FOR THE VERY SAME REASON OF DISCRIMINATION.

    1. Karen Gaddy says

      She was not discriminating against the PEOPLE, she was refusing to accommodate the OCCASION. She said she would like to do business with them, and that she hoped they would patronize her business again, she just could not associate with an unholy event that is diametrically opposed to her religion. These liberal, far left judges that this administration has stacked the court with need to disappear if the cannot learn the distinction between an unholy action and people. However, I do not understand how a SEXUAL BEHAVIOR can be a protected class. This is what makes me so angry. The will of the vast majority people in this country counts for NOTHING!

  7. Janice Foster says

    This Lady should close her business there and move to a State that will appreciate her and do good with her!

    1. Roger_T73 says

      You must mean a country that protects freedom.
      Amerika only cares about the freedoms of liberTARDS!!!

    2. Rattlerjake says

      That is exactly what MEXICANS do! They hate their country and their government so the flood into ours. If they stayed where they are and FOUGHT for their rights, they might have a worthwhile country. By moving, this woman would concede to the intimidation of government, giving them even more power and making others less likely to stand against tyranny!

      1. Peter Sherman says

        well… there is that pesky little fact that in mexico when people (like those protesting students about 3 months ago) open their mouths in protest… they tend to disappear.

        if we had a country like that (if we still had a country like that… as that was what happened here in the past)… those who did not have the stomach for fighting would would be rushing to canada. then, when they turned us back… we’d be between a rock and a hard place.

        1. Rattlerjake says

          They gave up their freedoms, they gave up their guns, they allowed their government to get far too controlling. A handful speaking up does nothing, but if the whole country attacked the government there’s not enough government to stop them! Of course now they are all here!

          If you’re so squeamish, leave!

          1. Peter Sherman says

            in the case of mexico… its not so much the central government but the cartel controlled state and local govts where the corruption gets to the level of massacring its people. i am not super up on mexican current events and politics but their central govt is trying hard to also fight those cartels etc. we have to acknowledge that our demand leads to their supply. if we had the climate to produce coca… we would but we don’t so mexico produces it for us. we do have the climate for marijuana and much of the mexican production of marijuana currently takes place in the hills of humboltdt county CA. our demand for drugs leads to their having all-powerful cartels which leads to their rank and file being screwed which leads to a big push to get out. add to that our pull (turning the other way while we fill otherwise unfillable field ag positions with mexican folks) and that push/pull is just too much to resist.

            i am not squeamish but i am less paranoid (afraid) than the average person on this site. i still believe in democracy (naive as that might seem) and still think our constitution holds some wisdom. i would rather fight from the inside than from the outside. i think it has a better chance of succeeding.

          2. PayTheMan says

            believe it or not… some countries that are straddled with military governments and / or dictatorships don’t ever let their folks get up enough to even think about revolting. in some countries, people don’t have the energy to think about anything but their next drink or uncontaminated water or subsistence. mexico is not one of those countries, not to that degree, but they have a lot of problems. speaking as one who works heavily (primarily) in latin america… many sectors of mexico’s citizenry did not “allow” their government to get too controlling… they never had the chance to voice such an opinion without being taken out. if i lived down there… exposed to TV etc about how golden everything was up here… crap… i’d pack up and move me and mine up here as fast as i could. if that meant walking through the heat of the desert, its possible it would do that too. we can’t blame these folks for wanting a modest sliver of what we have. we hold it front of their faces and then spit on them should they want to take a bite. we should consider being a bit more modest sometime…. then, maybe, fewer folks would want what they dream we have.

          3. Rattlerjake says

            Our forefathers were under the same oppressive government, yet they didn’t pack up and leave, they stayed and got rid of the tyrannical scumbags that were oppressing them. Once this nation became a nation and borders were established, immigration had to be controlled or we would have been overrun as is happening now. Of course people in countries oppressed by their government want to pack up and come here, but they have no right to do so! These people are NOT immigrants, they are criminals and should be treated as such.

            You’re welcome to leave too!

          4. PayTheMan says

            thanks for the offer… but i’ll stay for a while more. but your analogy is troubled. the oppressors our forefathers ousted were brits… they were on another continent and only modest numbers of representatives of their monarchy were here. that’s a HUGE difference. That’s like a fire at the bowling alley and a fire in your bedroom. both are fires… one’s more dangerous to you.

            so where does one draw the line. i am an immigrant (first-generation)… you are an immigrant (maybe third, maybe 8th… but an immigrant). where we decide to draw the line on this life boat? the obvious answer is once I am in the boat, NO more can enter. But, if i am the one still in the water.. i want in. you can understand that i know. so… where does one draw the line?

          5. Rattlerjake says

            It’s idiots like you and your stupid reasoning that is the problem. First of all, the colonies BELONGED to England, it doesn’t matter where the ruler is, they are still the ruler; it is their governors and soldiers that enforced the British rule. Secondly, EVERYONE on this planet is an immigrant, whether you believe in evolution or creation man began in one location and as the human population grew new areas were settled. Your argument is stupid!

          6. PayTheMan says

            except for your point about indepth analysis of history and root causes of issues being stupid, the rest of your points are valid. but, as one who spends a lot of my professional life in deep third world situations, i can say there are various levels of oppression. sure, the belgians, brits and US and others did horrific things as distant rulers during the colonial period… and those egregious events still plague most of those colonized countries… as the north americans are still struggling to get back on their feet after we europeans trounced them. so, sure, the brits were tough on the colonies and we worked hard, fought hard, dreamed hard and got lucky that the distance (back then) was enough to have them give up the fight and here we are today. but it wasn’t just purely hard work… it was circumstance as well. jared diamond has a book about why certain civilizations conquered others (and spread diseases) to others and not the other way around. its a big tomb of a book… but guns germs and steel is a good read.

          7. Rattlerjake says

            What in the f-ck are you babbling about? It’s obvious that your dock doesn’t even reach the water.

          8. PayTheMan says

            its a trivial academic discipline called… oh crap… forgot the name. its something really important about the past… and its analysis… OH! i remember: History. look into it sometime… its all full of fun stuff like what happened and stuff. and the weirdest part, its not always black and white. really amazing. see you at th library?

        2. LastGasp says

          What do you think is happening to our country right now? The state is trying to crush all opposition to it’s communist agenda. Crushing religion is one of the first steps.

          1. Peter Sherman says

            we have our problems to be sure… but we are not massacring loads of student protesters and dumping their bodies in unmarked graves. we are in dire straits but we are golden in comparison to many other countries out there. if we lived there… of course we would want to come here as well. its only natural for parents wanting their kids to outlive them.

    3. hangem'high says

      Once a government takes an inch they take over your religion. I’ve heard the liberal progressives talk about a state ran religion, which means all the little religions need to be squashed!

      1. Jimmy King says

        Sounds like a good start.

    4. Ron says

      This Lady has a right to do business with whom she chooses to do business with.

      1. Jimmy King says

        Not according to the US Constitution

    5. Jimmy King says

      You mean a State where the US Constitution does not apply. Ms Foster if you hate this country so much, why don’t you move with her

      1. Peter Sherman says

        don’t irritate people with those pesky little facts about that inconvenient constitution that holds more wisdom than does most of our populace.

    6. Peter Sherman says

      you don’t mean another state… you mean another country. North Korean, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Syria… there are many countries where discrimination is the law of the land. regrettably, in this country, there is no safe haven for those who choose to discriminate. its that pesky little constitution that prevents that. what an inconvenience.

    7. LastGasp says

      She shouldn’t have to.

  8. USPatriotOne says

    If people would just step back and see the Big picture going on here, all that is happening in the U.S., all that is happening around the World was and is clearly laid out, step by step, in the book of Revelations. God/Jesus/Holy Spirit tells no LIES! Yes people I believe the 7 year tribulation may have already started. Yes the public at large does not know who the Anti-Christ is yet, but I believe he is here and is hard at work destroying our World..!!! I also believe that the Satanic People/Monsters (Bilderberg, Mason’s, Illuminati, etc) working for the Anti-Christ already know who he is, where he is, and are providing him the material and financial support he demands to bring H**L on Earth! Our only protection is Jesus Christ himself…Repent, Pray, Prepare for the wrath of the Lord against all that appose him will be destroyed in the lake of FIRE..!!! Praise be the Lord Jesus Christ!

    1. Joe T says

      USPatriotOne……..you have been enlightened….most people have not.

      Congrats…………best regards, Joe T

      Colossians 1:13-20 “For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead so that in everything He might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him and through him to reconcile to himself all things whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”

      Veritas.

      1. USPatriotOne says

        Joe T, thank you. But all those that have not been enlightened had been pre-told in the book of Revelation. I pray for their redemtion but sorry to say, many will not see the light until it’s to late. The hour grows short and the light of the day fails the man/woman that has not stored up their lamp oil to light their way! As Jesus made clear, “I am the way the truth and the light and no one comes to the Father but by me! Praise be the Lord Jesus Christ!

        1. Joe T says

          Xactly……enjoy this…..

          God’s Accuracy –
          Beautiful

          When GOD solves our problems, we have
          faith in HIS
          abilities;

          When GOD doesn’t solve our problems HE
          has faith in our abilities.

          God’s accuracy may be observed in the
          hatching of eggs. . . . .
          -those of the canary in 14 days;
          -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days;
          -eggs of ducks
          and geese in 28 days;
          -those of the mallard in 35 days;
          -The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42
          days.

          (Notice, they are all divisible by
          seven, the number of days in a week!)

          God’s wisdom is seen in the making of an
          elephant.

          The four legs of this great beast all
          bend forward in the same
          direction.

          No other quadruped is so made.

          God planned that this animal would have
          a huge
          body,

          too large to live on two
          legs.

          For this reason He gave it four fulcrums
          so that it can rise from the ground
          easily.

          The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs
          first.

          A cow rises from the ground with its two
          hind legs
          first.

          How wise the Lord is in all His works of
          creation!

          -Each
          watermelon has an even number of stripes on the rind.
          -Each orange
          has an even number of segments.
          -Each ear of corn has an even
          number of rows.
          -Each stalk of wheat has an even number of
          grains.
          -Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even
          number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even
          number

          and the next row an odd number.
          Amazing!

          -The waves of the sea roll in on shore
          twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather.
          -All grains are
          found in even numbers on the stalks.

          God has caused the flowers to blossom at
          certain specified times during the day. Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said
          that if he had a
          conservatory

          containing the right kind of soil,
          moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers
          that were open and those that were closed!

          The lives of each of us may be ordered
          by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, if we will only entrust Him with
          0ur life. If we try to regulate our own life, it will only be a mess and a failure.
          Only God, who made our brain and heart, can successfully guide them
          to a profitable end.

          I Pray God Bless You In Ways You Never
          Even Dreamed. I didn’t think twice about forwarding this one.

          When you carry “the Bible” Satan has a
          headache; when you open it, he
          collapses;

          when he sees you reading it, he loses
          his strength, and when you stand on the Word of God, Satan can’t hurt you! And
          did you also
          know…

          that when you are about to forward this
          email to others, the devil will probably try to discourage you, but do it
          anyway.

          And the atheist believe in evolution…sad.
          Veritas.

          1. USPatriotOne says

            Thanks, I needed a boost today…May God bless and protect you and yours. Praise be the Lord Jesus Chrsit 🙂

          2. Jimmy King says

            E-I-E-I-O

          3. USPatriotOne says

            People like you crack me up…what you say means nothing…E-I-E-I-O…LOL..!!!

        2. paulnordin@aol.com says

          For me, the Bible is insufficient evidence for the existence of a God. If God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, why doesn’t He establish a modern communications link with His favorite creation, humans?

          1. JB Wright says

            Well, because then it would not require faith to follow God. And besides, if people could just talk to God through modern communication, can you imagine the onslaught of plea’s, requests. demands, etc.. God would receive everyday/moment. Just the requests for the latest phone would be ridiculous, never mind those greedy folks begging for a Ferrari or Lamborghini, etc…

          2. paulnordin@aol.com says

            About equal to the number of prayers?

    2. Jimmy King says

      You are totally right. Everything that is wrong with the world is contained in your post. In your opinion there is but one true god “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit (the one TRUE GOD)” Yet the Jews worship differently, and the Muslims see it differently and the Buddhist see it differently. And as each group feels like they are not being respected, they strike out. Its this BS, that “my religion is the true religion” crap that has caused more wars throughout history than anything else.

      Do away will all religions, and we do away with much of our troubles

      1. USPatriotOne says

        The one true God is not a religion, he’s GOD..!!! And Gods word in the bible for saw everything you just wrote and to follow God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is called faith…God is all knowing!

        1. Peter Sherman says

          how can you make the same case for someone who is questioning… or doubting… or just plain not believing. can you make a case for your perspective without citing GOD? if not… your point is only palatable to those who already agree with you. If you can, you can reach others as well. just curious… not an attack.

        2. Jimmy King says

          No, your religion says that there is 1 true god. That’s all. Your faith in your religion leads you to believe that there is one true god, Jebus and the holy spirit. Other religions believe in other things. There used to be many many gods. People who could not explain thunder, attributed it to a god. When they could not explain a drought, they attributed it to a god, etc As they learned more and more about science, they worshiped fewer and fewer gods. Which is why today 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are Atheists. Science has disproved all of this crap

      2. LastGasp says

        Not “our” troubles, your troubles. I have no problem with people that have religion, why do you?

        1. Jimmy King says

          I was referring to the poster who said there is One true god. I don’t have a problem with people that have religion. They are free to worship whatever they want. I don’t tell them what to worship, how to worship or when to worship. and all that I ask is that they treat and respect everyone the same way. If they don’t like same sex marriage, then don’t marry someone of the same sex. If you don’t believe in premarital sex…don’t have sex until you’re married. But don’t tell us how to live out lives

  9. Irene Elizabeth Grooms says

    I beliive in standing by your beliefs if you don’t believe in Same Sex Marriage then that is tour RIGHTS AND I THINK THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANY ONE YOU DON’T WANT TO SERVE.

    1. Joe T says

      Yeah……..what happened to no shirt, no shoes or no brain…..no service!
      Yeah…I added brain…..for common sense.
      best regards Irene…..Joe T

      1. Irene Elizabeth Grooms says

        Well i know i’m right about my comment all this chit started more since we have Obama up in our white house . Its a sin that i feel like GOD WANT FORGIVE AND I DON’T GIVE A SHIT WHAT YOU SAY OR THINK.

        1. Joe T says

          Irene….???
          POTUS…(Obama) is the sole, singular, and procuring reason and cause for “ALL” of the CHAOS and divisiveness, confusion and EVIL…
          that’s occurring in the USA and the Middle East as we speak…Obama is pure EVIL….just like the radical Islamic Muslim extremists … he is hiding in the White House in guise as the POTUS…aka
          Satan in the flesh, by “HIS” words and actions.
          best wishes, Joe T

          1. JB Wright says

            No, Obama knows just enough to be dangerous, he thinks he can manipulate the masses into peace. He is also a half assed Muslim, we know what jihadist’s do to half assed Muslims, they cut off their heads or burn them alive. Obama has a White House full of Muslims, all they have to do is walk up to Obama and it’s slice and dice. Obama is so stuck on his own stubborn twisted and erroneous agenda the dumbass can’t see Islam for what it is. The Jihadist’s outright tell Obama that they will cut off his head in the White House, so what does Obama do? The retard invites more of them to the White House for Dinner. Not too freaking bright.
            Frankly Obama has his head squarely stuffed right up his ass. I know it can be tricky to see sometimes because he is all ass so it just looks like Obama, the asshole standing there doing what assholes do, spewing out piles of stinking excrement.
            Those Obama administration Muslim staff ad advisers our demander-In-chief thinks are his friends will violate the wife and kids while Obama is forced to watch. Then they will do just as they said they will do, cut off O’s melon and hang it from those clown ears.

    2. hangem'high says

      It’s hard to believe that’s the only florist in Washington?

    3. Jimmy King says

      Its too bad that’s not what the Constitution of this Great Nation says. Irene, if you have the Constitution and this great nation so much, why don’t you leave

      1. paul says

        weather I shovel dirt,sheeit, or perform your brain surgery, my labor is mine. Period. No amount of money and certainly no law will force me or anyone from doing work they do not agree with doing.

      2. Irene Elizabeth Grooms says

        I’ve been here on this earth since (1934 ) When i go it’ll be when GOD CALLS ME HOME IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT SAID WELL YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO. KISS KISS OFF.

        1. Jimmy King says

          You can “think” people have the right to refuse service.
          You can “think” the earth is flat

          You can “think” anything you want, but that’s not what the Constitution says.

          1. Irene Elizabeth Grooms says

            WELL HAVE A NICE DAY CAUSE YOU ASS I’M GOING TO THINK WHAT I REALLY BELIEVE.

          2. Jimmy King says

            Yes, by all means don’t let facts or law get in the way of your ancient beliefs.

    4. Peter Sherman says

      so, just to be sure, logically for anyone who does not want to serve white folks or christians should have all the right do deny service. IF you say YES to that friendly amendment, then you have a legitimate leg to stand on. otherwise, you are promoting discrimination and not freedom. what do you think?

      1. noBS says

        I believe we need some sort of clarification regarding what types of business “offerings” can and can not be arbitrarily refused by a provider. Essential services — medicine, protection, shelter, etc. — should be guaranteed. Likewise, things considered “routine” or normal — food, clothing, etc. — should also be guaranteed, if the customer can pay for them. However, providing “specialty” items, things of an artistic nature, etc., should always be at the discretion of the provider. In other words, a store offering clothes “off the rack” would have to sell to anyone, but a clothing designer would not have to create a “wedding dress” for anyone, regardless of the customer’s status. A florist would have to sell a ready-made bouquet, but would not have to provide (or help design) flowers for a wedding. In most cases, the line of distinction could be drawn between “over-the-counter” items vs “special orders”, but there are likely other criteria to consider that will be identified later.

        1. Peter Sherman says

          wow…. that’s the most reasonably, logically thought through comment i have seen on this site in a long while. i don’t know your politics but can assume that if you are on this site, we don’t see eye to eye on most things. but, that assumed, your points cannot be easily parried… and i have to admit i agree wholeheartedly. i also think that your distinction between discretionary and essential as a divider sounds like a really solid first step (with details to follow as the policy takes hold). So, just to be clear, one cannot refuse renting primary housing to someone or a reasonable loan (given the demonstrated capacity to repay etc.). However, we must be careful as the corporations can be a bit ugly about such things such as Nestle’s CEO famously considering WATER a commodity that can go the highest bidder and not a basic human right. So long as the culture and/or govt can “police” against abuse… i think you have hit on something quite reasonable.

          that helps me because personally i don’t care that this woman refused service… even for the reasons she refused it. but i do care about democracy and the confusing rights of someone to be a dick and the rights of others not to be dicked. (to use un PC terms.) your definitions solve most of my qualms.

          thanks noBS… i’ll keep an eye out for your intellectualism… i am sure you will shine brightly given the background.

  10. Joe T says

    God’s Accuracy –
    Beautiful

    When GOD solves our problems, we have
    faith in HIS
    abilities;

    When GOD doesn’t solve our problems HE
    has faith in our abilities.

    God’s accuracy may be observed in the
    hatching of eggs. . . . .
    -those of the canary in 14 days;
    -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days;
    -eggs of ducks
    and geese in 28 days;
    -those of the mallard in 35 days;
    -The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42
    days.

    (Notice, they are all divisible by
    seven, the number of days in a week!)

    God’s wisdom is seen in the making of an
    elephant.

    The four legs of this great beast all
    bend forward in the same
    direction.

    No other quadruped is so made.

    God planned that this animal would have
    a huge
    body,

    too large to live on two
    legs.

    For this reason He gave it four fulcrums
    so that it can rise from the ground
    easily.

    The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs
    first.

    A cow rises from the ground with its two
    hind legs
    first.

    How wise the Lord is in all His works of
    creation!

    -Each
    watermelon has an even number of stripes on the rind.
    -Each orange
    has an even number of segments.
    -Each ear of corn has an even
    number of rows.
    -Each stalk of wheat has an even number of
    grains.
    -Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even
    number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even
    number

    and the next row an odd number.
    Amazing!

    -The waves of the sea roll in on shore
    twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather.
    -All grains are
    found in even numbers on the stalks.

    God has caused the flowers to blossom at
    certain specified times during the day. Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said
    that if he had a
    conservatory

    containing the right kind of soil,
    moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers
    that were open and those that were closed!

    The lives of each of us may be ordered
    by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, if we will only entrust Him with
    0ur life. If we try to regulate our own life, it will only be a mess and a failure.
    Only God, who made our brain and heart, can successfully guide them
    to a profitable end.

    I Pray God Bless You In Ways You Never
    Even Dreamed. I didn’t think twice about forwarding this one.

    When you carry “the Bible” Satan has a
    headache; when you open it, he
    collapses;

    when he sees you reading it, he loses
    his strength, and when you stand on the Word of God, Satan can’t hurt you! And
    did you also
    know…

    that when you are about to forward this
    email to others, the devil will probably try to discourage you, but do it
    anyway.

  11. papa doug says

    Stutzman

  12. chief1937 says

    If someone objects to certain actions by others should they be allowed to file a discrimination suit against that person? I think not. I also believe when the government can tell a business owner who they must serve it is indeed a sad day for America. Can I sue a gay person if they refuse to order me a Bible if I want one? My thoughts if you are fortunate enough to purchase a business (of any kind) you should be able to refuse service to ANYONE you choose.

  13. RolandF says

    Why does she not have a case of her Constitutional Rights to the pursuit of Life, Liberty and happiness’ are being violated? What a narrow minded and bigoted jerks these fellows are for even filing this suit.

    1. Jimmy King says

      Roland, you actually have it backwards, there is no constitutional right to discriminate, rather one protecting those discriminated against. Read it sometime

      1. JB Wright says

        Your freedoms end where my rights begin!

        1. Jimmy King says

          Something like that. Your freedom to swing your arm ends, where my nose begins

  14. kotoc says

    I admire this brave florist for her unwavering stance on what’s RIGHT… she won’t succumb to pressure, and she never SHOULD be persecuted for her faith. I wonder how quickly any person who CLAIMS to be a Christian would abandon their faith if they were told that if they don’t convert to Islam, they will be put to death? I would die for Jesus, just like He did for me!!! Whoever it was that started the ball rolling against her should be stripped of their business, position, possessions, etc. THIS IS AMERICA!!

  15. Timothy Bunn says

    I feel better this a.m. People are using “The Word” to repel the evil that is prevalent today. I believe this is the ticket.” Everybody get ready to get on board,the train is coming.”

  16. EruditeMan says

    We now live in the times Jesus told us would come: Good is called bad and bad is called good. A queer man getting married to another queer man or a queer woman getting married to another queer woman is an abomination to God and is therefor bad and should rightfully be called bad yet we are now told a queer man getting married to another queer man or a queer woman getting married to another queer woman is good. Get ready for the un-Affordable Care-less Act and is medical database and legalizing forced RFID by 2017’s arrival of the mark of the Beast. Get ready for the Antichrist in residence with his tranny at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC to continue ignoring US law and spending money the USA does not have to destroy use of Federal reserve Notes in favor of new medium of exchange which will permit restricting one’s ability to buy or sell without the RFID (Mark of the Beast) chips that will soon be here.

  17. dittybop says

    just show me one place in the Constitution, where it states that gay marriage is protected! That’s all just 1!

  18. David says

    HMMMM. I am a staunch supporter of the constitution and as such believe all citizens are equal and should be treated equally. I am not gay and have to intentions of becoming gay. I think being gay is wrong but it is wrong for me. If you want to be gay it is your right under a free society. I think queers are entitled to every right I have. HOWEVER, they do not have aright to change the covenant of marriage. If they want a legal union with all rights and obligations of marriage create a legal union but it is not marriage. Further, political correctness is a violation of our Constitutional rights. In addition a government forcing a merchant to conform to political correct action in violation of personal beliefs is not freedom. We are living under a socialist dictatorship forcing us to accept the governments agenda of a ruling class dictating how we will live. A government dead set against Christian values.
    If you want to be gay, be gay, I will live with your choice but don’t think you can fore me to like it or support it in any way. I will choose who I want to do business with not the government.

  19. disqus_JETq43v7xm says

    I applaud Stutzman!!! Here we have a case of blind faith in Jesus. If we Christians will stand together against the tyrannical Obama regime ig way. we can be successful. Jesus asks in the scriptures if there would be any faith when He returns…this lady gives me hope there will be. What if, just by minute probability. Jesus is looking for us to turn to Him in faith with our Muslim President and Muslim appointees and imbedded Muslim terrorist heading up our most critical committees…in other words an infestation by Muslim Brotherhood. As I write this I am reminded of the time when Jonathan and his armor bearer defeated the Philistine Army and put them on the run because they believed they were acting in the Will of God…God showed up in a big way. I am absolutely certain that if we Christians will turn to God in pray

    er, He will show His power and might. Help me here with a short, direct prayer to move the Hand of God: Dear God, Jehovah, we have sinned and our forefathers have sinned and we repent for all our sins past, present and future. We collectively ask that you move your mighty Hand to destroy the plans of the Muslims and the social elite to destroy the United States and Western civilization. Our politicians do not represent the people any more but only the interest of those who would destroy Christianity and Israel…both of which are your

  20. disqus_JETq43v7xm says

    your signature Nations, so we turn our trust to You. Amen.

  21. pmbalele says

    Well, the law is the law. Whether you’re white male, White female, Black male, Blacks female or belong to other racial minorities, straight of not straight, you have to obey the law. These TPs and Repubs are the ones causing all these problems in this country. They want to rule the country as they did before the 60s when Republican males were the masters. No more.

  22. Ron says

    No shoes, No shirt, No service is out the door. A blatant dictatorship is what we’re faced with!

  23. Daniel Unruh says

    You have to understand that we are in a spiritual warfare. there are real demons roaming the earth seeking to destroy the human race. They will occupy a human spirit and make people behave the way they do, including gay people. It is not the “WAY” of the lord. Our judges need to have a reality check and quit pandering to gays. If they don’t follow the Constitution, this Country is on the way to HELL in a hand basket! Stand your ground!!! Praise GOD, Praise Jesus, and Praise the HOLY SPIRIT!

  24. Wayne Thorson says

    I believe a bar owner should be able to put up a sign saying THIS BAR CATERS TO SMOKERS ONLY. Anyone that frequents this bar does so at their own risk. This would make as much sense as that florist.

  25. marlene.langert says

    I would like to appeal to the couple that is trying to get married. PLease get a different florist and respect the religion and the morals of this brave, strong woman. THe two of you are gay and proud of it. I do believe that she is also Christian and proud of it. You can or did get flowers somewhere else. Why make it difficult. You do not want the government to stop you from getting married and that is fine. She does not want you two or the government interfering with her religious beliefs. I would callit a deaw and show some respect and compassion for her.

  26. jackie Paper says

    dunno…what if a Muslim florist refused to do flowers for anyone other than fellow Muslims? We’d be shaking our heads, dismayed! Providing flowers for someone, doesn’t mean you are “approving” of them, you are just a business… open to “the public”. You don’t even need to know the customers’ faith or much about them to be their florist… I have mixed feelings about this.
    If a doctor came upon someone injured and said.. OH my I won’t treat them because of their faith or sexual proclivities… wouldn’t that be awful? I might not “like” homosexuality but they are humans.
    I think a MINISTER of a Faith should have every right to say Oh no I cannot perform the marriage ceremony of someone who goes against what they believe, but flowers? I’m torn.

  27. David says

    Go get’um girl……millions are behind you……..

  28. Dan says

    We are protected by an unalienable right to religious freedom. I hope this frivolous case gets tossed out, for all of our sakes.

  29. silverwolf says

    We have the Constitution that gives us rights to be able to conduction our lives around. With so many factions attacking the Constitution and our rights that we are losing those rights left and right. The powers to destroy our nation is at work. Good is look on as evil and evil is looked on as good. Our world has totally turned upside down. Gay people are people also but under God’s law of marriage it is between a man and a woman. Liberals rationalize that there is no God there for there is no law. But there is a God and there is God’s law. I will obey God’s law.

  30. Zombie apocalypse with beans says

    Agree, as a former storm chaser 55 years I’ve seen these hellish
    demons up close many times. They often briefly appear in dark reddish
    orange skies or right inside a killer tornado…

    Palm Sunday 1965,
    a sky monster a.k.a frightening looking creature appear right above an
    F-4 funnel cloud that had just destroyed part of our in Michigan town…

    They are hideous nightmarish creatures capable of any measure of evil, this much is certain…

    Video
    taped a weather manipulating demon in the year of our lord 1989 put, it
    on YouTube ~ God Tube just to name a few. Unfortunately, this
    frightening and most revealing supernatural footage has been
    deliberately deleted and blocked many times thus far…

    Took 20+ attempts to just download this short 2.5 minute video ~ UPLOADING ERRORS?

    Comments
    were always most insulting to me personally. calling me a phony,
    fraudulent idiot and religious moron, nutjob in bad need of taking some
    meds, is putting it mild compared to what they really had to say…

    Too
    those whom are blind to the supernatural, they see only a weird shaped
    series of clouds and little else. However, to my pastor and friend whom i
    freely gave a copy too a short time ago, he has now identified dozens
    of demons in that footage….

    Yes, I noticed that this page has an
    image uploading extra to it unlike most web sites . Therefore, to put
    my money where my big boastful mouth is, so to speak . Here’s a few
    still images from that same 1989 video footage of what I believe to be a
    real not in the flesh spiritual monster (on the right) referred to as a
    hellish demonic being…..

    Note: If this creature in this footage below ever possessed a man, like Obama? God help us all……

  31. jackw97224 says

    “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” is a sign I see displayed in some restaurants and
    respect the freedom of the entrepreneurs to choose. No one should be forced to sell a good or service to anyone. Men and women over the centuries have fought and died, ostensibly to protect such freedom of choice, and certainly did not sacrifice so much to assist homosexuals in forcing anyone to “heel”
    to their demands to violate another person’s religious beliefs or otherwise. Denying one his freedom to choose to sell or not to sell is dishonorable and dishonors those who fought and fight to protect that very freedom. At some point people in the majority will be forced to stand up to ISIS and the homosexuals; this nation was not to be ruled dictatorially by a minority or by a majority. Read Lysander Spooner’s No Treason No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority and then head on over to Marc Stevens’ No State Project blog to see Spooner’s message in action and winning against “the great Satan.”

  32. elmcqueen3 says

    If a couple wanted to place an order for a wedding cake at a muslim owned bakery with the cute little figurines of the bride and groom on top the cake with a Christian cross placed squarely behind these figurines and the muslim owner said he would not make such a cake because the cross offended his Islamic/Muslim religion…Could the couple take the baker to court and sue him for discrimination and or for violating their religious beliefs though they be different from his own…The court would probably stike down the lawsuit claiming the baker was only upholding his religious beliefs in Sharia Law thus leaving the soon to be newly weds without their cake…This country as become so “political correct” nothing makes sense any more…Who do we own this stupidity to…None other than the Democratic Party…”politifcal correctness” with which they refer to as a “common sense” doctrine has become a political football used primaryily within the ranks of the Democratic Party…After all who would dare challenge anything a Democrat may have said if their claim is one of “common sense”…Which is the Democrats way of getting around any issue….Beware when you hear any Democrat usine the phrase “common sense” in their dialouge…It is a ruse to keep you at bay and from posing any questions forthcoming..Deceit is a better word…It applies to all Democrats who double speak utter nonsense!…”When will They ever Learn?”…Peter, Paul and Mary.

  33. voted against carter says

    Stop with the PC terminology. Call it WHAT it IS.

    The sexual deviants ONLY make up 1.2% or LESS of the general U.S. population.

    WHY must the REST of us kow – tow to their attempt at FORCING us to condone their sexual deviant behavior as “normal”? NOT going to happen.

    I DO NOT CARE what CONSENTING adults do in the PRIVACY of their own domiciles.

    Attempting to re-define marriage into something it is NOT is a loosing proposition.

    When you HAVE to create acronyms to define your “label” there IS a problem with your “label”

  34. Morton212 says

    Good for her. She is not going to pollute her convictions by cooking up a cake for a gay wedding couple, though. Its not as if she enabled the wedding, as much as she might like to beat herself up about it. A cake is – just a cake.

  35. loran says

    I stand with this woman 100%. her story would be a great answer to todays Solan.com’s article today.

  36. paulnordin@aol.com says

    There is no God. Businesses should not be based on the religious beliefs of the owner’s. A business license should specify no discrimination based on race, color, creed or sexual preference.

  37. Robert Barnes says

    Someone please tell the lady about U.S. CODE TITLE 42 SECTION 1983 google and http://www.youtube

  38. Harry says

    Here is a possible comparison about how Barronelle Stutzman has gotten into legal trouble, because she has refused to provide flowers for a “gay” wedding, on grounds that homosexuality is against her Christian faith.

    What if either the chapter of a local neo-Nazi organization, or a local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan walked into a strictly kosher delicatessen. owned and run by Orthodox Jews, and demanded that kosher deli prepare a roasted pig, barbecued pork ribs, lobster, and steamed clams for their upcoming event?

    And then when the owner of that kosher delicatessen refused to accept such a catering order, because of how it would be against the religious faith of these Orthodox Jews, the local neo-Nazi chapter or local Ku Klux Klan chapter, filed a lawsuit against this kosher delicatessen, by throwing a hissy fit to complain this kosher delicatessen was guilty of bigotry and discrimination against their hate group chapter!?

    1. LastGasp says

      Good point, but probably wasted on the progressive socialists.

  39. xyzam says

    The solution is very simple: THINK! Take on the business and use the Accounting term of “Work In Progress”! Make the cake one spoonful at a time; one today, one tomorrow, etc. As for flowers; one stem today, apetal tomorrow, a leaf the next day, etc, until the flowers basically wilt and die. Then sue the bastards for refusing to pay for the flowers! You have complied with their order haven’t you? Then when the government comes screaming in, show the documented WIP records and tell them to screw off or sue them for harassment. Aren’t queers really queer?

    1. kotoc says

      It sounds like a funny way of dealing with this issue, but it wouldn’t hold up in court. It would be fun to watch on a “sit com” though.

  40. JB Wright says

    The attorney general is a commie rat bastard and he should be publicly shamed and then banned from the country. We do not need this foolishness in America, we were born free citizens and our constitution clearly recognizes this fact! Our constitution recognizes mankind’s free will and the natural born right to choose freely, freedom of religion and spirituality are among those things that cannot rightfully be taken away from us.

    Any jackass judge who thinks “freedom of religion” let me quote this:

    “religious beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, but actions based on those beliefs aren’t necessarily protected.”

    does not include being able to physically partake in your convictions is utterly delusional. How can one be given the freedom of religion if their actions based on that religion are not protected? This attorney general Billybob Ferguson and this retard judge both need to be banned from this country. Comparing not making a gay cake with killing infidels is just stupid. Killing infidels, or anyone else under less than extraordinary circumstances is quite illegal. Not making a gay cake is not only not illegal, it hurts nobody,
    We can be tolerant of gays and still refuse them service. The gays want to act however it is that they want to act but a woman with Christian convictions can’t? I see a huge problem with this double standard, If I sold scuba diving gear and someone came along wanting to buy, but clearly is not physically capable of diving safely, I’m not going to sell that individual scuba gear, I don’t want to be the one who sells this person something that will very likely kill him. Is that discriminatory? I think not.

    1. kotoc says

      Phfffft! A person can stand up for their religious beliefs. As you clearly stated here, and I quote: [“Killing infidels, or anyone else under less than extraordinary circumstances is quite illegal. Not making a gay cake is not only not illegal, it hurts nobody,”] When it was made KNOWN that it was for a gay wedding, the florist (standing up for her beliefs as a Christian) decided she didn’t want their business. THAT is the issue, not Islam (ISIS) extremists. You obviously classify her as someone who is extremist, but let me give you a little newsflash…. being a Christian is NOT extremist when one refuses to bake a cake. They are persecuting her for HER religion. How many Muslim women are asked to take off their burka when entering a place of business??

      1. JB Wright says

        My reference to killing infidels is in response to the following text from the article:
        “…religious beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, but actions based on those beliefs aren’t necessarily protected.” A true enough statement – if your holy book tells you to kill infidels, that’s not going to stand up in court – but it ignores the fact that this case is not about discrimination…”
        I do understand the issue, I was merely stating the irrelevance of the judges euphemism

  41. gmhunt4 says

    I wish the homosexuals had asked a Muslim florist to provide flowers for their ceremony. What would the Attorney General do then???????????

  42. Sharon Bianconi says

    Barronelle is a wonderful “Do Not Back Down” Christian and we stand with her in this trial. May the Attorney General who brought these charges Reap what he has Sown, more then he has sown and sooner than he has sown. GOD IS GOOD, ALL THE TIME.

  43. Graybeest1938@yahoo.com says

    Actually I think she was referring to Obama! Of course he in relative company along with Judas, Benedict Arnold, the Rosenberg’s, Jane Fonda, Eric Holder, just to name a few!

  44. Jacky says

    Good on you Miss, should you lose everything tset up an internet fund, i think that we can make sure that you come out ahead, the judge, post his name and address then forget about that low life.
    I have a small rental home that sits on 2 acres, it’s a lovely little house if you need a place to stay and I dare any cop in Washington to come here after you.

  45. savanah1 says

    I believe if you read closer you will see that she is not discriminating against gays, in fact she says she welcomes their future business,she does however stand firm in her religious belief according to the Bible that marriage is between one man and one woman,would anyone out there honestly go against everything they believe in?,especially when your entire life of seventy years centered around such beliefs?

  46. kensabic says

    articles of impeachment , NOW, against Obama!!!!!!!

  47. The duck says

    The Attorney General for Washington state is the violator of the First Amendment of our constitution for bringing this case against anyone. The homosexual culture does not care about our constitution that has stood very well since its inception. It is what we have fought 4 wars over to protect. It is what so many good men have died for. We should never give it up.

  48. Vern Davis says

    Looks like Putin wins again! Russian rules for the USA. This woman must have the only florist shop in town. But I applaud her for standing up to the new Obama laws. This show us just how much tolerance the gays have for other folks. How in the Hell can 1% of the population have this much power over our supposedly honest judges. Sounds like the judge must have some gay leaning, and he is looking out for his buddies. The lady should be able to serve whom ever she wants to.

    1. Tom Brechlin says

      Collectively, gay, lesbian, transgender is more like 3% but that is still low. How can they have such power? You tell me. Satan has a strong hold and the so called “Christians” have given in and I’ll tell ya what, we deserve whatever we get.

      1. Vern Davis says

        Its hard for Christians to fight the Gays, the Obama administration, the no “Ba**s Democrats, and crooked judges. Glad my good years were the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and since 2009 things have gone downhill quickly. Wonder Why?

    2. JB Wright says

      More like his “Butties”

  49. deseartu1 says

    Stand your ground do not give in what gives the gay person more rights then yours??? Go to the gay florist shop stop picking on an innocent woman just because she doesn’t believe in your lifestyle!!

  50. hummingbird1250@aol.com says

    Christians should back this woman up in every way possible. Write, email, call the Attorney General and tell him about it. I’m certainly not giving up anything I believe for a homosexual! I love her reply that she is not going to walk in the way of a well-known betrayer who sold something of infinite value for 30 pieces of silver! My prayers are with her!

  51. Tom Brechlin says

    157 comments which I don’t have time at the moment to go through, is there a fund that I can contribute to help her financially?

  52. jim marcum says

    I hope she sticks to her guns, sounds like she will. Now lets see if the Church will put it’s money where it’s mouth is and support this brave women. She’s taking on the most corrupt government in the world with the most deceitful and sinful agenda. God grant her strength is my prayer. Now Church tell us where to send the money that will be used 100% for this womens defense and to replace anything robbed from her by the government.

  53. tax man says

    Sure hope there is a higher court with some common good sense to fix this problem. This woman went out of her way to accommodate the clients but could not do this job so she even gave the clients referrals to others that could do it. There was no lack of qualified businesses that were ready, willing and able to do what the customers wanted. the customers actually got others to do the flowers and they were happy with the results. They did not want flowers for a gay wedding – they wanted a big fat lawsuit! Shame on them and shame on the judge who supported them. How about this Mr. AG – let’s have the US Supreme Court hear this case!

  54. jcmju says

    Stand your ground florist lady. We are praying for you!

  55. thecelt1 says

    The promised, wonderful world of that PHONY, FAKE, ILLEAGAL president has come forth to haunt us! I served in the US Air Force during the Korean War and am proud to have served.
    I served to help South Korea stay independent. I also served to keep the USA FREE. It
    appears that our government is NO LONGER a part of America. It has become a NAZI
    type government. We don’t need a Nazi government to surface again. When do we start
    shouting SIG HEIL, SIG HEIL to Herr O’BrainlessOne. I’m partly disabled, but will fight
    again, as best I can, to Preserve the United States of America as it was founded!

  56. Cat777 says

    What happened to separation of Church and State…Marriage was defined by Church not by the State, let Gays have a civil union with the benefits given to married couples and be done with it, better yet call all unions Civil Unions, for legal purposes and those who can go on to add the marriage (some churches don’t have a problem)… make it a Civil Union Certificate instead of Marriage Certificate, and again the Marriage Certificate would only come from a church, and would be for those who attend church or want that connection and for their personal records, end of problem…By the way, my nephew is Gay, and he verified something that I had found on my own, Gays have their own directories that let them know businesses that cater to Gays or don’t have a problem serving Gays, so when a business finds itself in this type of situation, it has been targeted! Activist search them out and push their agenda…why not just go to the businesses that don’t have religious beliefs or have them, but have already proven that they are okay with Gays, and leave the rest alone, it would do much more to keep bad feelings in check, and would prove that Gays can be tolerant, the exact thing that they want from everyone else.

    1. Tom Brechlin says

      “Marriage was defined by Church” … key word “was” not any more.

  57. Proud US vet/American says

    The LBGT lobby is as dividing and racist as Obama. They have created an atmosphere of hate and division that is eroding and destroying the very fabric of the Christian American society. Christianity is what this country’s core principles were built on. The LBGT is as destructive and dividing as Islam domination of the world is.
    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

  58. FreedomSpeaks2U says

    Want to rid America of most of the troblemakers? Neuter, Lobotomize and Deport ALL DemocRATS.
    That should reduce crime, ignorance, hypocrisy, welfare, gays, drug consumption by 99%….
    DemocRATS = Guardians of Lies, Fraud, Failure, Filth & Corruption….!!!

  59. Nancy says

    I dismayed, disgusted, and angry at the state of our nation and he degraded culture that I see every day.Standards of behavior have disappeared and have been replaced with garbage.

  60. JIMBO says

    She defiantly is a brave christian women. She has stood for what she believes and is entitled to believe according to our constitution. Jesus said if you deny me in your life I will deny you in heaven, or word of this nature. She knows who the winning team is in the end. God bless her.

  61. OldPatriot32 says

    When 1-2% of the population can dictate to the 98-99%, then the US is far down the road to duplication of the Fall of Rome! Lock and load, it’s on the horizon!

  62. hawk157 says

    It is interesting why “gay” couples select merchants to provide services for them, knowing that particular merchants may take offence to their life choices because of their religious beliefs. There are plenty of other merchants for any given service that they could select that are more than willing to assist them. They make their “demand” and the merchant must meet it no matter what? It appears to me that the “rights” of one group (gay couples or other individuals) are more important than the “rights” of another (the merchant or service provider), and thus in fact the merchant or service provider are in fact having their rights denied for the benefit of another. To most liberals/leftists, religion is of no importance and they have no understanding of people who do hold strong religious beliefs. The fact is, whether they believe or care is of little importance, for a person’s religious beliefs are protected by the Constitution. There should be no question that in a case like this where there are/were plenty of others ready, willing and able to provide the service, this woman is being prosecuted/persecuted solely for her adherence to her faith. If that doesn’t violated the her Constitutional right to practice her religion as she is lead, what does?

  63. Robert Brennan says

    God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!

  64. Paul Brown says

    This woman put everything she has and holds dear to her on the line for God, and I hope she comes out in front because it is time we tell these freaks of nature that we are not going to fall for their shit just because they have a faggot in Washington living in the WH with a transvestite American hating pig.

    1. Tom Brechlin says

      I have to say that I struggle with what you said here. Name calling and calling people “freaks” doesn’t help anything and in fact distracts from the point you were trying to make.

      She has already come out in front because she’s walked the walk with Christ and there will be no better reward then her personal salvation. The person being most harmed is the most is Stutzman and I really don’t thing you would hear her saying some of the things you’ve said.

      1. Paul Brown says

        Am I wrong that Osama is a faggot, many people he went to school with said he is GAY and even Joan Rivers said before she was killed off, that the mooch is a tranny living in the WH. She also said that he was a homosexual living with a tranny. I am only telling the truth, I don’t sugar cote anything I say just to be so politically correct.
        Yes I believe that she has walked the walk and talked the talk, she told the truth and stated her beliefs and is not pulling any punches. It is against what God wants and she is NOT going against God no matter what. She may lose everything here in this life, but she did not deny God at all, so she will gain the kingdom of heaven, something these fags and gays will not just as the demoncraps in this world. They are putting everything on the line to support the evil one, the anti-Christ. They intern will gain nothing when they die, they will die a horrible death as God said, they will burn in hell for all eternity.

  65. brian James says

    this is sad for the government to step in and enforce a perverted and corrupt law for the ones who live a life of perversion and throws the Bible out the window. the bible says a marriage is between a man and a woman. not Adam and Steve or Kathy and Katie. I will never accept these sick and degenerate laws. the time will come when the corrupt will pay the piper. our forefathers are truly ashamed of the nation that we have been led into by corrupt and greedy and perverted politicians who most of them are perverts and closets queens. our dictator himself is a closet queen and a fraud.

  66. sweetolbob says

    The important thing here is NOT what you call a marriage, or a union, or a shack job !
    The important thing is that this is a small, personal Business, run by the owner, who has daily hands on control of everything that happens. It is part of the backbone of America. It is not General Electric or (thank the Lord) General Motors. The anti discrimination laws that govern them are just a formality, because neither one of them would stop doing business with a particular part of society. They both need all of society.
    This lady does not need all of anything. She uses herPERSONAL

  67. Francis Seibert says

    I am totally against gay marriage.They can call it a civil union but it will never be a marriage.

  68. Thaaff says

    All Bible-believing Christians know that the practice of homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord our God! Adultery is another sin that God Almighty calls an abomination! The Holy Scriptures say very clearly that no liars will not enter into His heavenly kingdom! The one thing they all (among many others) have in common is the very real fact that the Living God absolutely and unconditionally loves each and every one of those individuals…..His love is so great and profound that He delivered up His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as a sin sacrifice so that all people, no matter what they’ve done, can have a chance of eternal life in His Holy Kingdom! Sin is sin is sin, and as I’m sure you know, He is the only One qualified to pass judgement upon them and us! His only requirement is that if we do wish to be saved from eternal darkness and separation when we pass away to have eternal life with Him is for us to love Him and to love each other as ourselves! This does not mean that we should tolerate sinful behavior….we are admonished to hate the sin, but love the man (or woman), nothing else! The fed has become so deeply corrupt, they demand that we the people become as morally and intellectually bankrupt as many of them are! I consider Barronelle Stutzman to be an American hero, since she epitomizes the spirit of America’s founders! She has passed the David vs Goliath test with flying colors and I admire her faith and resolve in refusing to betray the Lord Jesus Christ, even though she may lose all of her material possessions due to the hateful actions of a man who sadly lives in spiritual darkness! Do not be surprised when Barronelle Stutzman starts to recieve all kinds of support (materially and otherwise) from unexpected places, since that’s the way our Almighty God rolls!

  69. fred says

    Thank God someone still stands up against the tyranny that is this administration’s goal, and they are the ones that should be losing everything because they are against all freedoms, and for making robots of all of us in their “PC world” of criminal activity. They are lying criminal deceivers who just want to control us cradle to grave, and we need to send them all to Federal Prison for their numerous crimes against us.

  70. Gary Grimm says

    So, how can people donate to this woman?

  71. John BrinleyJr says

    first its same sex marriage ; next its marry your sheep girlfriend ……

    1. Morton212 says

      I don’t think there is much attraction between between civil rights activists and conservative women. So your paranoia is probably never going to happen.

    2. Joe T says

      Your point well taken…………As for the gays…..it is what it is………mental acuity is devoid in ill choices in one’s life….you reap what you sow.
      best regards, Joe T

  72. OldPatriot32 says

    Bless this woman, who not only has a God of her own understanding, but recognizes the value of Private Property rights! Big Brother should stay the hell out of her business; at this rate, our corrupt government would demand ISIS be served and accommodated in every small or large US business! Pathetic.

  73. Jesus is God says

    If queers are gay, then satan is joyful which I know is a irrefutable lie! I intend to contact the florist in this article and let her know that I am praying for her and that Jesus Christ who is God Almighty will crush her enemies beneath her feet soon! Queers are filthy predators!!! I have a younger brother who is unfortunately mentally retarded, now commonly referred to as developmentally disabled. 3 times during his lifetime, filthy queer predators attacked and molested him. I thank God that I was able to confront one of these satanic punks and beat the living crap out of him. The other two managed to hide their identity. But I will tell you this people, my younger brother suffers from severe trauma and is now in his mid-fifties. He cries to me still over what happened to him and all I can do is encourage him and let him know that one day Jesus Christ, who is the only God will cast those satanic scum into the eternal lake of fire where they belong! I am not going to bother you with my story but I also have been ostracized recently for taking a stand against these filthy sodomites.

    We now live in a psychopathic country where we are forced to subsidize abortionists (child murderers) and queers (child predators) against our consciences and our supposed inalienable right of the freedom of religious worship! Well, I will tell you this, Jesus Christ is coming soon and when it happens He will come as the lion of the tribe of Judah, and His judgment day will be a day of wrath and flaming fire to incinerate and consume His adversaries!!!

    All those who are fearful cowards who refuse to take a stand against this demonic wickedness will be consumed along with all those who dare to practice and promote their satanic evil and spit in Jesus Christ (who is Almighty God’s face)!

    Choose this day who you will serve for the day of Jesus’s imminent second coming is on the near horizon!!!

    1. Morton212 says

      I think you illustrate very well how sexuality and extreme religious neurosis are irrevocably entwined. Seek help before you are arrested for grevious bodily harm.

    2. Joe T says

      Point well taken…………As for the gays…..it is what it is………mental acuity is devoid in ill choices in one’s life….you reap what you sow.
      best regards, Joe T

  74. Joe T says

    Op ed

    ALL of the (fat cats) cronies (women and men) who are (very) comfortable being in Congress for years and years with dated stale ideas with Quid pro quo agreements and the mantra of “you vote for me” philosophy, but…. I’ll do what I want to do in Congress”; whether a Democrat or a Republican…….
    TERM LIMITS must be made mandatory…..somehow and soon…not years from now. Veritas!

    1. Morton212 says

      Term limits is unlikely to do more than transfer even more power to a faceless unelected bureaucracy.

  75. Joe T says

    POTUS is acting lawless……………so does Satan………..both will/has fallen from grace.

  76. Conservative says

    Isn’t it ironic that the Courts force Abercrombie and Fitch to hire a young Muslim woman, fully dressed in Muslim garb as one of their models. What is she supposed to model? Where is the justice in our judicial system. Muslims have their own courts with their Sharia Law, are free to adhere to their religious beliefs – I bet if the Muslim oppose abortions their doctor and hospitals are not forced to perform them. If a Muslim woman get pregnant without being married that Community or her family will decide what her punishment will be. I’ll bet we don’t have many Muslim single mothers expecting the government to feed, clothe and shelter her and her brood for life.

    All the mandatory fiats are geared toward Christians and unfortunately liberal Christians are falling right in line because their churches have failed them from a very early age.

    1. Morton212 says

      I think you should renovate your information sources. They are flawed and dilapidated.

    2. Joe T says

      Conservative…….astute
      Op ed
      The USA is being led down the wide path to oblivion…CHAOS…SOON all must rise and put an end to this way of societal change…………..it’s liberal indoctrination by POTUS who is a dire charlatan and is the prime example of this Chaos going on in the USA and Worldwide.

      I could digress on this subject in great length….Conservatives and Christians need a louder voice and a backbone to say NO to the riffraff that initiate this bane of existence.

      Remember the movie “the Christmas Story” how 2 rowdy kids bullying some other kids and Ralphie weari current ng glasses got fed up and beat the crap out of the bigger kid – whose demeanor is similar to a liberal, and the Democrats…. i.e. Nancy Pelosi..

      Ever notice Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi’s bullying tactics in Congress and Herr Obama’s continual LAWLESSNESS actions for years….we are too damn civil of a society sometimes.

      Look at what the IRS and Lois Lerner did for years, lied and contrived against the us, the citizens…what happened to them NOTHING…and Obama is the reason why everything bad happens everywhere and nothing is done about it at anytime…starting to digress…This POTUS Obama is the “Ace Nemesis” of the USA. Veritas.

      best regards, Joe T

    3. Joe T says

      The episode of Nancy Pelosi going beserk.

      By John Parkinson
      @jparkABC

      Chris Good
      @c_good

      Aug 1, 2014 8:48pm

      In an unusual breach of decorum, even for the divided Congress, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi chased Rep. Tom Marino across the House floor, taking offense at comments by the Pennsylvania Republican during debate on the border funding bill Friday night.

      “We don’t have law and order,” Marino began as he wrapped up his comments on the border supplemental. “My colleagues on the other side don’t want to do anything about it.”

      “You know something that I find quite interesting about the other side? Under the leadership of the former Speaker [Pelosi], and under the leadership of their former leader [Rep. Steny Hoyer], when in 2009 and 2010, they had the House, the Senate and the White House, and they knew this problem existed,” he continued. “They didn’t have the strength to go after it back then. But now are trying to make a political issue out of it now.”

      Off-mic, Pelosi then approached Marino, crossing the aisle in view of cameras, and apparently challenged Marino’s assertion that Democrats did not do anything about the issue when they had majority control.

      “Yes it is true,” Marino replied directly to Pelosi, who was House speaker in those years. “I did the research on it. You might want to try it. You might want to try it, Madam Leader. Do the research on it. Do the research. I did it. That’s one thing that you don’t do.”

      Marino then urged lawmakers to support the border supplemental “because apparently I hit the right nerve.”

      After Marino concluded his remarks and as many Republicans applauded their colleague, Pelosi crossed the chamber again in view of cameras, enraged, pointing and sticking her finger at Marino.

      She then followed Marino up a Republican aisle, gesturing and arguing with him. Lawmakers on the GOP side gathered in dismay as one spoke out to tell the chair that the House was not in order, in an effort to halt the bickering.

      Pelosi finally relented after Republicans tried to get between Pelosi and Marino, and she returned to the Democratic side of the chamber. The House then promptly voted to approve the $694 million border supplemental, 223-189.

      *UPDATE: According to Pelosi spokeswoman Evangeline George, “Leader Pelosi just wanted to remind the Congressman that House Democrats had the courage to pass the DREAM Act – and have the courage to stand up for what the American people want: bipartisan, comprehensive immigration reform.”

      George added that “Pelosi accepted the Congressman’s apology.”

      But Marino’s chief of staff, Bill Tighe, stressed that Marino did not apologize to Pelosi, and will not apologize.

      “[Rep. Marino] did not apologize to Leader Pelosi and does not intend to do so as he has nothing to apologize for. She was entirely out of line in approaching him while he was recognized and delivering remarks on the Floor,” Tighe wrote in an email. “Her staff’s comment in your story about her accepting his apology in simply not true.”
      Later, Marino took to Twitter to explain his side of the story.

      1. Conservative says

        Pelosi is a rabid dog and needs to be chained in some cage. She and Harry Reid let power go to their heads decades ago and they believe they are superior to everyone else. Some people just cannot handle a little power.

        I really was amused today when she learned a large group of prominent black pastors wrote to the Congressional Black Caucus and chewed them for not supporting and attending the Joint Congress when Netanyahu. They really scolded the Pelosi Sheeple and informed them or reminded them how supportive the Jews were in the marches for freedom and equality. They reminded them that the Jews were God’s chosen people and now Israel has always been our most faithful and strongest ally.

        I guess that got the message because Pelosi came out and was very sheepish. She stated she wished Netanyahu would come but if he did she WOULD attend. She said that the other Democrats could make their own choice about attending. Now wasn’t that very considerate of her to bestow her permission to her sheeple.

        I’ve already deleted the story and the video but I’m sure we’ll be seeing more of it but only on FOX. You know King Obama must be in a real tizzy over this.

    4. Joe T says

      But, following Nancy Pelosi’s strange behavior on the House floor, during which time she broke decorum and interrupted Republican Rep. Tom Marino before chasing him around the floor, Woods tweeted concern for Pelosi. The outburst was so outrageous that he questioned her mental sanity.

      Woods may not be alone in pondering whether Pelosi has a mental issue. Pelosi’s fellow Democrat, Rep. Nita Lowey, uttered an incredulous “What is she doing” while witnessing Pelosi’s bizarre antics.

  77. Wayne says

    f–k this

  78. dinkerduo says

    I believe that the only reason this *gay* thing is so out of control is because obozo is gay himself and several in his cabinet are also—so it’s push-push-push and *gay* in your face–some even say the his wife is a *tranny* which wouldn’t surprise me one bit when you look at her body proportions–her height–take away the female hormones and she’d loose the tiny breasts and any softness would go away–also take away her hairdo and make up which cover up most of her manish brow ridge etc.!!!

    If obozo wasn’t *gay* this type of suit–which initially WASN’T brought by the two supposedly offended gay guys–it was brought by the ACLU and the AG of the state joined in! One of the gay guys is a good customer and friends with the owner and said he understood her position—IT’S ALL THE OTHERS WHO THINK IT’S THEIR BUSINESS TO BUTT IN!!! The two guys should demand that the suit be STOPPED–THAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!

  79. Terry Hamblin says

    The State of Colorado about 3 years ago had a biblical day. The State Legislature passed a law that made the sale of Pot legal and on the same day passed a Law making same sex marriage legal. Oh, because the bible states that “men who lie together must be stoned”.

  80. 4USA2 says

    Don’t know how to do this but Christians should set up a website for donations for his woman so she can somewhere down the road, at least buy another home. This is absurd that the LBG community must now also be going after her home. There are many LBG florists now everywhere; is there some reason they can’t go to one of those florist shops to get their wedding flowers???? God bless this lady. She is standing for freedom of religion and deserves to be given her rights.

  81. real talk 1 says

    Gay people are sick people mentally sick and until mankind treat it as such it will only get worse as long as humanity embrace political correctness humanity is on a downward spiral !!

  82. adrianvance says

    The Obama Gestapo takes many forms.

    Google “Two Minute Conservative” for clarity in analysis.

  83. Robbert Hoekstra Azusa says

    INon gays have rights also. It is time for the normal or non-gay community to speak up and fight for their rights. The U.S. Constitution cives us the same rights meaning we do not have to give in to gay demands even though a gay prfeference president favors the gay community. More power to you Baromelle for standing up for her rights. Why is the non-gay community so afraid to speak up? Can’t they see that Hussein Obama is deliberately undermining America’s family moral values? If he favors gays and lisbians, that is his business, but do,t let him impose them on US. Down with Sodom and Gomorrah.

    1. Joe T says

      Published: 09/11/2012 (would someone describe this person POTUS OBAMA as sane?)

      A prominent member of Chicago’s homosexual community claims Barack Obama’s participation in the “gay” bar and bathhouse scene was so well known that many who were aware of his lifestyle were shocked when he ran for president and finally won the White House.

      “It was preposterous to the people I knew then to think Obama was going to keep his gay life secret,” said Kevin DuJan, who was a .gossip columnist in Chicago for various blogs when Obama was living in the city as a community organizer and later a state senator.

      “Nobody who knew Obama in the gay bar scene thought he could possibly be president,” said DuJan.

      DuJan, founder and editor of the Hillary Clinton-supporting website HillBuzz.org, he has first-hand information from two different sources that “Obama was personally involved in the gay bar scene.”

  84. Joe T says

    Paradoxical conundrum: Everything GOD does is good, even if it’s bad; hence POTUS Obama;

    An enigma by GOD.

    Faith in GOD is the supreme test of humanity.

    Veritas!

  85. Joe T says

    A Paradoxical conundrum:

    Everything GOD does is good, even if it’s bad; hence POTUS Obama;

    An enigma by GOD.

    Faith in GOD is the supreme test of humanity.

    Veritas!

  86. Joe T says

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28
    JUST CLICK ON PHOTO TO WATCH VIDEO…ALL DOUBTS NOW ERASED

  87. Evermyrtle says

    “The Birth Of A New Communist Nation!” We are no longer free! The guts of a free nation, is being able to worship as you please, without restrictive government rule.

  88. Tiger says

    If the Almighty created Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve it would have been a short book.

    No problems with Climate Change or anything else. The world would still be pristine and filled with the lower animals who many times show more compassion and tolerance than the so-called higher animals, homo-saps-onandon.

  89. GodBlessRealAmerica! says

    Reject these Liberal Atheist Democrackhead racist thugs fight back file lawsuits against them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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