George Zimmerman Selling the Gun Used in Trayvon Shooting

683

Liberals were horrified by the news that George Zimmerman is auctioning off the gun he used to shoot and kill Trayvon Martin – the event that laid the foundation for the Black Lives Matter movement.

“I am honored and humbled to announce the sale of an American firearm icon,” Zimmerman wrote in his GunBroker listing. “The firearm for sale is the firearm that was used to defend my life and end the brutal attack from Trayvon Martin on 2/26/2012.”

GunBroker pulled the listing on Thursday. It’s not clear if it will be reinstated, but you can see why they want to avoid undue attention. In the gun-hysteria climate of today’s America, firearm dealers and brokers want to fly under the radar as much as possible. You never know when the left will turn your business into their latest gun-control crusade.

In an interview with an Orlando news station, Zimmerman said he was standing up for his rights as a citizen. “What I’ve decided to do is not cower,” he said. “I’m a free American. I can do what I want with my possessions.”

In the post, Zimmerman wrote that he would use the money he earned from the sale to push back against liberal efforts:

I am proud to announce that a portion of the proceeds will be used to: fight [Black Lives Matter] violence against Law Enforcement officers, ensure the demise of Angela [Corey’s] persecution career and Hillary Clinton’s anti-firearm rhetoric. Now is your opportunity to own a piece of American History. Good Luck. Your friend, George M. Zimmerman ~Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum~

The Latin phrase translates to: If you want peace, prepare for war.

The reaction to Zimmerman’s auction has been predictable and even, to an extent, understandable. Even if you think Zimmerman was justified in the shooting, you can be excused for thinking that this sale is in bad taste. After all, we’re all susceptible to the propaganda of the mainstream media, even when we think otherwise.

But the truth is, Zimmerman has every right to sell his gun and he should not feel even slightly guilty about doing so. This man has had his life ruined by an overzealous prosecutor and a false media narrative that persists to this day. Like Ferguson officer Darren Wilson, he has been ostracized and vilified for doing nothing more than defending his life. He could spend the rest of his life as a slave to the Martin family and he would be unable to rescue his reputation. Once the left decides, it’s over.

So if Zimmerman has decided to embrace his role as one of liberal America’s most hated icons, who can blame him? In a world where up is down and good is evil, media vilification is the inevitable result of living a conservative life.

If only there were more elected Republicans who understood that.

683 Comments
  1. Bachelor With Sense says

    LIBERALISM is a Mental Disease! The ONLY CURE for it is a Bull et between the eyes!

    1. Alex Ferguson says

      All you Reich Wingers ever think about is violence—use of reason is beyond you. By the way, Teabagger, how on Earth can you type with Ted Nugent’s scrotum shoved down your throat?

      1. Dan says

        Wow Alex they say ignorance is bliss so you must be one happy fellow.

        1. AKLady2015 says

          You certainly seem to be.

      2. kbmiller says

        Spoken like a true Chicago Cuns fan. Get a life you f’n jerk.

        1. AKLady2015 says

          Why do you embarrass America with childish name calling?
          That is something most children give up by the 2nd or 3rd grade.
          Why would anyone agree with a adult who is that immature?

          1. kbmiller says

            If you read Alex’s posts, you’d see I was giving back to him the crap he started using in attacking others.

          2. charlie Hall says

            u eat shit & bark at the moon

      3. maddog0311 says

        Alex, I’m afraid you’re off your meds again, may I give you a suggestion, please check your-damn-self back into the mental home for a nice long stay to ensure you’re taking your meds again. Please do yourself this small favor, you’ll help everyone out that way even you – nut job!

      4. charlie Hall says

        Gee all the violence this year has come from the liberal side

        1. Tired... says

          Indeed, the King of England has verified that you are correct.

    2. maddog0311 says

      I’ve been told by informed reliable sources that Liberals really want to commit suicide by Republican’s, that’s why they constantly provoke them with their insane lunatic crazy ideas. I can not see one reason, either good or bad, why not to oblige them!

      1. Alex Ferguson says

        From your photo, it appears that you sold your soul to have your young brain scooped out and replaced with hatred, violence, and that mind-set of the weak–patriotism. If the photo is accurate and you are , indeed, an idiot jarhead, you have sworn an oath to protect the very people whose ideas get your panties all twisted up. You are a loser, doggie—ideas frustrate you, and the only recourse you have is that which has been drilled into your otherwise empty head—-VIOLENCE. Seek help……..

        1. Garys_opinion says

          Oooo, a pissed off under educated liberal.

          1. AKLady2015 says

            Really?
            Our Founding Fathers were liberals.
            If you don’t believe that to be true, I suggest you ask the King of England.

          2. charlie Hall says

            you cunt say that

          3. Michael Dennewitz says

            NOT THIS DIMENTED BITCH AGAIN!?

          4. Robert says

            “Liberal” then and Liberal NOW are different Liberals. The progressives twist terminology to make it ACCEPTABLE.

        2. maddog0311 says

          No, Alex, I wore that uniform defending your rights to say what you damn well please. And to put your question to rest yes I am a former jarhead, 6 years, 1966-1972. BTW “violence” s the only language that everyone understands the exact meaning once you’ve give them a fair warning to stop! Finally, Alex, of all the people on this earth that I’ve met over the last 68 year, I’ve found the Marine Corps guys to be the least violent of all men, because they completely understand the end result of war, which they have no will whatsoever to lose! Peace is created and maintained only by superior firepower!

          1. PatriotGal says

            AMEN and thank you for your service.

          2. bb says

            Semper Fi !!

          3. Rick01234 says

            Peace is the goal of real freedom, it’s price is Eternal Vigilence. Keep it.

          4. Michael Dennewitz says

            You go bud… I’M a disabled Vietnam vet myself, and ANY marine I came in contact with, I showed RESPECT to. More than a handful gave up their asses to save ours in Nam!!

        3. bb says

          Go suck a big one!!!!!
          You have no right to disparage the uniform or the wearer. Your mind has been twisted by the minions and fellow travelers from the universities in Peking and Moscow that teach how to make Americans hate their country. You are a victim of brain washing. You should fall on your knees and thank that Marine for standing ready to defend your sorry ass!!
          Semper Fi And Good Night Chesty Puller Where Ever You Are!!

        4. Tired... says

          Alex, It is people like you who will ultimately turn to killing those who disagree with you and if the current trend continues, that will occur sooner rather than later.

      2. Kate says

        Ignore that idiot. Thank you for your service to our country.

      3. AKLady2015 says

        Our Founding Fathers were liberals.
        If you don’t believe that to be true, I suggest you ask the King of England.

        1. maddog0311 says

          Perhaps your founding fathers were “liberals”, which I doubt, but mine landed here on the Mayflower and this country was never intended to be run by left wing communist crazy nut jobs asses that don’t know their head from their butt.

          1. bb says

            Semper Fi !!
            And Good Night Chesty Puller Where Ever You Are !!

        2. charlie Hall says

          u are a cant OOPPS should have hit a u

        3. Tired... says

          That is certainly revisionist history.

      4. maddog0311 says

        Liberalism isn’t only a Mental Illness, but unfortunately it is that and a combination of an IQ around that of a rock plus absolutely not one lick of common sense! I frankly classify liberal’s as blithering idiots at large in society when in fact they all need to be rounded up imprisoned in a re-education camp of which they’ll never be releases! 🙂

  2. ray2hill says

    The Republican fascination with what happens to the Travon Martin kill equipment show how sick those who call themselves conservative are.

    1. elkhunt says

      ray —bet you still want to use the girls rest rooms—your boy brock insane obummer said you could

      1. AKLady2015 says

        Why do you embarrass America with childish name calling?
        That is something most children give up by the 2nd or 3rd grade.
        Why would anyone agree with a adult who is that immature?

        1. elkhunt says

          its the truth—not name calling—brock insane obummer is in fact a true idiot and anti American

          1. AKLady2015 says

            Why do you embarrass America with childish name calling?
            That is something most children give up by the 2nd or 3rd grade.
            Why would anyone agree with a adult who is that immature?

          2. AKLady2015 says

            You do not even know how America elects a President.

        2. elkhunt says

          i’m a veteran and you are not—you are the embarrassment to America—-not me….liberal whack jobs like you who helped put obummer in office twice should be ashamed of themselves

          1. AKLady2015 says

            I am a veteran. I served in Vietnam.

            Oh, and foolish one, the American people do not elect the President. The never have. Unless the Constitution is amended, they never will.
            Get an education.

          2. elkhunt says

            yeah right—another brock insane obummer cyber vet

          3. AKLady2015 says

            Why do you embarrass America with childish name calling?
            That is something most children give up by the 2nd or 3rd grade.
            Why would anyone agree with a adult who is that immature?

          4. AKLady2015 says

            The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.
            U. S. Electoral College, Official – What is the Electoral College?
            http://www.archives.gov/…/elector...
            National Archives and Records Administration
            Loading…

          5. Robert says

            Another reason to amend our Constitution.

          6. Billy Ray says

            Just because you are a vet doesn’t make the name calling any less childish.

          7. sramsey says

            Yes, we should be ashamed of the way the Prez, saved the economy, saved the auto industry, saved lives by getting our real veterans out of a war they should not have been in, and I could go on and on and on. Unfortunately, bringing home our folks from a needless war was not before 4500 good men and women died for nothing. So ashamed, only of you for disrespecting the real veterans out there which surely is not you. Oh by the way, have you heard that the dump wants to privatize the VA and the repubs on the hill are trying to pass a bill to get rid of the GI bill. Yep, they really love our military men and women alright. NOT!

          8. elkhunt says

            BROCK INSANE OBUMMER HASNT SAVED ANYTHING…HIS GM AUTO CO IS STILL BANKRUPT AND CANT PAY BACK THE GOVT LOANS…AND YES–YOU CAN GO ON AND ON LYING, BUT NO ONE SANE LISTENS TO YOU

          9. elkhunt says

            Obama administration to issue decree on transgender access to school restrooms ,,,Yes….instead of keeping our military safe, brock insane obummer wants perverts in little girls rest rooms—What a idiotic ass both obummers are—Brock and Kong

          10. Robert says

            What WAR did ohomo get us “out of”. What I think you meant, and I could be wrong, but pulling out ALL of our Troops from Iraq?? The vacuum created after total withdraw created…….tick tock , tick tock… Please answer…… How’s that working now? Where are our military now being placed???

          11. Tired... says

            Don’t forget Syria and Lybia, as well as the increased influence of Russia and Iran in the region, capped off by a nuclear “deal” that ensures nuclear warheads for Iran’s missiles.

            The answer to this mess is an amicable divorce. I don’t know about you, but I want to live in a country that believes that the founders were wise and the constitution a precious document that was specifically designed to prevent impulsive changes. Obama is a disaster but you will not convince a liberal of that any more than you will convince a conservative that he has saved the economy and made the world safer, so let’s just divorce based on irreconcilable differences. Split the country, as well as its assets and liabilities, in half as part of a great social experiment: Liberals on one side and conservatives on the other. It would be interesting to see which side prospers and which side does not.

          12. Robert says

            Already know the answer to which side would prosper. The Conservative side! The Conservative side wants the cheap immigrant labor, and the Liberals would want to pay the illegals 15 bucks per hour, and keep all the blacks on welfare, while sucking all the Rich dry, and TAXING the “middle class” at 70 to 95% tax bracket! Over regulations of businesses would then make jobs hard to come by, causing the illegals to go on the welfare, and only the Millionaires and Billionaires would be left on the LEFT to pay for all the abortions and birth control and everyone’s Healthy Care subsidies.
            On the Conservative side, the cheap labor would benefit the Businesses, creating a vibrant economy, which creates demand, creating more jobs, which creates more money in the civilian market, which creates profits for the business owners which creates more business start ups equals PROSPERITY!! Whatcha think? Am I over looking anything?

          13. Tired... says

            You covered the economic side well…liberals certainly don’t want a thriving middle class because it provides too much individual freedom.

          14. Janice says

            Please permit to use your drivel as an example of the idiocy your kind spreads. It is a classic of what US brand of Conservatism propounds.

          15. Robert says

            Here something, you might understand. Liberal governing is like NORTH Korea. then, Conservative governing is like SOUTH Korea.
            If you want to live in a Liberal ( communistic socialism ) go spend a week there and see how it works. I know someone who actually ESCAPED on a train from there. He is a doctor. And I am a nurse. I “feel” for everyone, including the Looney Left.( actually, I give “them” their meds to keep them from going POSTAL) I have compassion in my heart, but IIT doesn’t mean I have to bend over for tyrants like our illegal invader in the Peoples House.

          16. Mike Johnson says

            Janice, Well you got that right. So much BS. All blacks on welfare??? all illegals would go on welfare ??? Suck the rich dry ??? I can’t even get started on the health care crap we have. The mess we have is because Congress needs a business manager and to stop with all the pork. And as Congress made all these Free Trade Deals, Americans can barely find jobs.

            And in the news Trump is the bad guy because our current tax system has more holes than swiss cheese. I only wish I had enough money to use the loopholes he can.

            The country problems are all based on changes to the tax system that started in the 60’s. The rich have bought Congress, and they get to keep more than the poor.

          17. Janice says

            Please permit me to use your drivel above as a classic example of the primitiveness and idiotism it shows about the economy with untrue facts and macabre conclusions. Thank you for the favor.

            You are silent about the economic disasters that the Republican presidencies, worse by GW Bush, left behind for the Democrats to fix. Purposefully to mislead the uneducated electorate, used for propaganda like Goebbel. I won’t give you the facts that belies your pronouncements. Time will be wasted doing it.

          18. Robert says

            Where did I say REPUBLICAN? I just reread what I posted. Not a mention of REPUBLICAN.
            Please stop Imaginning things or putting your SLANT on my words. I said no such thing.
            P.S.: Today, there is not much difference in DemocRats and Republicans. They both want power and all your money.

    2. MAHB001 says

      It seems by the posts, that Republicans are not as fascinated as liberals.

      1. jimmy midnight says

        Hey, Mr. Mad, wonder if you agree w/me that many of the things your friends are saying here are really quite ugly. Maybe they’re joking.

        Bet the gun in question will ultimately be purchased by a Republican or conservative.

        Z would be behind bars, probably only on a manslaughter beef, if prosecutor had been appropriately diligent.

        1. MAHB001 says

          Jimmy, what goes around comes around. The frustration shown on this site by conservatives in my mind is justified. This case shows just how low the left will go to disarm America. Lies and deceit, shame on you.

          George Zimmerman was exonerated by a jury of liberal peers. He was found innocent of all charges and was simply defending himself. His life was destroyed by his own actions of saving his life. Ironic isn’t it. A guy raised by blacks, destroyed by liberals.

          You say you want people to be able to defend themselves, why not George Zimmerman? You say you are not after our guns, I am beginning to think otherwise.

          What is shown here by conservatives is the lack of empathy for fake liberal concerns over some black thug that those very same liberals are using to promote the liberal cause of disarming America.

          https://youtu.be/Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

          1. jimmy midnight says

            Well, we don’t know who the jurors were. So you really should refrain from calling them a “liberal” group. Z is a nark, and was well-known as such by local police, who had asked him, apparently w/insufficient insistence, not to follow the late young Mr. Martin anymore.

            He got out of his car, and now Trayvon’s dead. Seeking a cheap buzz, which he was likely doing, shouldn’t be a death-penalty offense.

            Now Z’s been acquitted, and in USA! can’t be tried over this again. So I have to join you in wishing him good luck in the future.

            Allow me, once again, to assure you that having officials come into anybody’s home to remove their anything, is something most of us leftists would deplore. Oh, and happy Spring.

          2. MAHB001 says

            That is what is maddening about you Alinsky Radicals… You never admit you are wrong, NEVER….

            This is how bad it has gotten. If Travon Martin had come into my home here in CA, and started beating the crap out of me in my bed, and my wife ran into the other room and got a gun out of the safe, ran to the other room and got some ammo, ran to the other room and got the proper magazine, loaded the gun, and threw it to me, and with my last conscience thought before blacking out, I shot Trayvon.

            The Police would show up 3 minutes later, come into my house, guns drawn, handcuff me, drag me to jail. I would spend all that I have to defend my actions, and I would be in jail. My life would be utterly ruined for two reasons, I was forced to take someones life to protect my own, AND the liberals would make sure of it…. Just like they are doing to George Zimmerman, every chance they do not waste.

            The MEDIA did their job of altering 911 tapes, and sensationalizing all things bad about Mr. Zimmerman, and making a little Trayvon look like a saint. It is a perfect example of the power of a corrupt MEDIA….

            Fight the MEDIA at: http://www.madashellboycott.com

          3. jimmy midnight says

            “It stop being self-defense when bitch get outta car packin’ heat.”

          4. MAHB001 says

            Sure, and Hands up Don’t shoot, really happened as well….

            Don’t let them lead you around by your emotions Jimmy.

            George Zimmerman didn’t use deadly force until he was given no other choice. Staying in the car was no longer an option, Travon Martin could have stopped the beating, not intensified it, as all reports showed.

            At that point in time, Travon had many more options than George did… Travon chose poorly.

    3. Tired... says

      That is a silly comment. Trying to paint everyone with the same brush in a deliberate attempt to marginalize the group is called stereotyping and that is something that thinking people of any persuasion should find objectionable.

  3. Alex Ferguson says

    The only creeeps who would bid on this are the same sick White men who collect SS daggers……..

    1. Kate says

      Not just white. That’s a lame bandwagon to jump on.

    2. charlie Hall says

      So how much did you offer bug eye?

  4. JDVERNELL says

    I would love to see Zimmer man shot in the head by one of the women he has abused,threatened and harmed. The prosecution threw this case as they were instructed to do by gov. Rick Scott!

  5. Alex Ferguson says

    If you Teabaggers actually think that murderer, pedophile, and wife-beater Zimmerman is going to use the proceeds from selling a murder weapon to fund your lost cause, you are even stupider than you think I think you are………

    1. Helga miller says

      How did he even get this gun back? It is a free Country (or is it) and he can do as he wishes!

    2. Kate says

      Stupider ?

    3. kbmiller says

      How stupid can a person be if they think that, “stupider” is a word?

      1. Kate says

        Unfortunately, the English language has been dumbed-down by and for the last few generation’s less than adequate education.

        1. kbmiller says

          YEP, it started with the IDIOT liberals DUMBING DOWN the standards. Remember when they thought teaching “EBONICS’ was a good idea? HA HA HA HA These LEFTISTS continue to fail to understand that it is men with weapons, that keep us free and allow JERKS like them to be able to spew that type of rhetoric from their pie holes.

    4. Michael Dennewitz says

      I’ll bid on it.. Hail yes!!?

  6. elkhunt says

    now that Trayvon and mikey brown are taking a dirt nap—the gun is worth more every day

    1. Billy Ray says

      Again, Trayvon was committing no crime. He was just walking home.

      1. elkhunt says

        yeah right—he was looking for a fight and if Zimmerman didn’t kill him he would have been dead himself

        1. maddog0311 says

          Hey, if Zimmerman didn’t kill this hopped up on dope little fool then he’d of just been kilt by someone else because he couldn’t leave his hands off other people. That’s zackley what happens to everyone that can’t behave them damn-selves in this society. If I were in charge I’d round up everyone like Martin and march them over to the Cotton Wood Grove and have a friendly “Neck-Tie” party and leave them all “Hanging out-there” after the party was over. BTY you can’t talk nice to violent nutjobs, you must stop them on the spot – dead in their tracks! Otherwise this society would be insane.

          1. elkhunt says

            YEP

          2. jetmagnet says

            I guess if your a racist bastard it makes all the difference. lmao!

          3. Rick01234 says

            Redneck justice is obviously in your genetic make up, have you been drinking alcohol at 5:44 Am? Get a grip on your alcohol consumpson before it closes the lid on your coffin!

          4. Rick01234 says

            Anyone who buys into the concept that Cannabis use turns teenagers and twenty somethings into assaulting murderers has been watching reefer madness for two long, it’s alcohol that does that. The Stat’s on that hold water, the rediculous headlines from the 30’s still work on fools and liars…alcohol is the drug of choice in domestic violence period, and any police officer can back me up on that statement.

          5. Rick01234 says

            Guns are tools, and require good judgement in their use. Zimmerman is a wannabe cop, which is why he is where he is today, which he obviously is regretting now, I’m not saying he was wrong to defend himself, but he clearly went out of his way to look for trouble, and boy oh boy did he find it! For the rest of his life!

          6. jetmagnet says

            You stick up for a wife beater, a criminal, and a derranged mother fucker? You have no fucking class. you’re a dirtbag!

          7. maddog0311 says

            I don’t really care who kilt Martin, he off the streets and Florida is a much a safer place without him in it sneaking around behind apartments in the dark attacking people while he’s hopped up on dope! This time he attacked the wrong man and got his just desert! What kind of man Zimmerman is or isn’t, is not my concern, I think Zimmerman did Florida a favor and we are all the much safer for it! If Zimmerman beat his wife, or if he is a criminal, that isn’t up to me to be his judge and jury, I’ll let you handle my light work and judge him anyway you want to, I could care less if you ask the judge to hang him I don’t care and its none of my business now since he’s preformed his civil duty!

        2. Billy Ray says

          Yeah, he would have committed suicide when he got home that night.

          The dude was not committing any crimes at the time nor had he just committed a crime. You can’t excuse one man’s loss of life based on the you profiling him as someone bound for an early death.

          1. elkhunt says

            TRAYVON THE CRIMINAL WHO HAD A RECORD AS LONG AS YOUR ARM WAS SHOT DEAD FOR TRYING TO KILL A MAN…GOOD RIDDANCE

          2. elkhunt says

            billy you idiot–he had a long record in south fla where he lived until he visited mama

          3. Billy Ray says

            Provide a source. I did. He had no record.

          4. Billy Ray says

            Also, speaking of questionable character http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/12/us/george-zimmerman-timeline/

          5. Betterbob says

            Liar.

      2. maddog0311 says

        Word on the street has it by informed reliable white house sources that, Travon Martin actually grabbed Zimmerman’s gun out of his jacket and shot and kilt his-damn-self with it. They say Zimmerman tried everything he could to stop young Travon, but alas nothing worked and you know the end of that story. I’m not saying that it the truth, who in hell knows what the truth really is, other than Travon, who has gone to a far better place and can no longer talk or for that matter eat Skittles! Such is the ways of life deal with it.

        1. Jimmy Quick says

          Travon Martin, peace be upon him, was a person we could all look up to?

          Are you insane? The only way anyone could look up to this guy is when he was on top of you beating the stuffings out of you.

          Whether he pulled the trigger himself or Zimmerman did as he claimed doesn’t matter. It was his time and the world is a safer place now that he is gone.

        2. Billy Ray says

          I refuse to accept one man’s murder as something to just “deal with it”. Unfortunately he was not the only person to die unarmed since then at the hands of someone who should not have fired. It’s not just race either, see James Boyd and Dillon Taylor.

          Also, Zimmerman in his actions since this case has shown that he is the last guy on Earth you ever want to let have a gun.

          1. maddog0311 says

            Awww you’re just full of “Sour grapes”. The stark raving stinking reality of all this is, it boils down to the distilled essence that, Travon Martin is dead, buried and looking up at the grass roots, while Zimmerman who is happy and smiling, is still on the green side of the grass. As of this morning it has been reported by reliable sources that “Z” is well and alive and working his butt off to sell the gun that kilt Travon! I mean you can’t really blame “Z” for trying to sell off that gun now that he’s been proven “innocent” of any wrong doing. I think “Z” is asking a small fortune for the gun, but it is his to do with as he pleases isn’t it, this is still a free country – right, Florida isn’t governed by the blacks, for the blacks and of the blacks just yet! So…, Zimmerman should be able to do with that gun whatever he wants – right? I mean to say, the man is only trying to eek out a living from an unfriendly town for god sakes, many black people hate him and want him dead, they need to leave him alone! It wasn’t Zimmerman’s fault that T.M. went nutty and attacked him while all “hopped up” on drugs was it? Looks to me that T.V. got his-damn-self-kilt caused by his own fault by trying to attack Zimmerman, who had every right to protect himself- right? Come-on be honest. If anyone attacked me in the dark like sneak thief pounding on me I’d assure you I’d definitely shoot them too, and so would you if you could be honest with yourself. What else could you do, let the bastard bash your head in without putting up a fight – Please!

      3. Jimmy Quick says

        What part of self defense do yo not understand. By Martin’s fat girlfriends own admission, Martin waited for Zimmerman and then brutally attacked him. According to an eye witness, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating his head into the concrete sidewalk and Zimmerman was crying for help.

        Are you stupid or do you just not care wha the truth is?

        1. Billy Ray says

          So Zimmerman says he was “jumped”. There were no other witnesses watching the whole time. I think it was more likely a mutual engagement in the fighting, which would nullify a self-defense argument except that it could not reach the bar of “beyond a reasonable doubt”. If there is a mutual engagement, it does not matter who is winning or losing the fight.

          1. Jimmy Quick says

            It is established beyond a reasonable doubt. Martin told his fat girlfriend that he was waiting to beat up Zimmerman. He waited in the bushes and when Zimmerman got close, he jumped out and overcame the far smaller Zimmerman immediately. Zimmerman never had a chance.

            All evidence proves that Martin was beating Zimmerman to death.

            You need to stop lying.

          2. Billy Ray says

            Hogwash. They totally had a confrontation. Zimmerman was still an instigator, he was also a terrible fighter and got outsmarted by Martin.

          3. Jimmy Quick says

            Your both stupid and insane. Go bother someone else.

          4. Billy Ray says

            You owe me a thank you for educating you on this case. You are welcome.

          5. Jimmy Quick says

            Idiot.

          6. Billy Ray says

            Get your facts straight. Zimmerman was not smaller. Martin was 5’11” and 158, Zimmerman was 5’7″ and at least 185 pounds if not 200. He was pudgy but he is aggressive albeit does not pack much of a punch.

          7. Jimmy Quick says

            Obviously you have no idea what arm length has to do with fighting ability. It is also obvious that you have no idea of the great advantage it gives an attacker to hit someone by surprise. Martin was a trained MMA fighter. Zimmerman is a fat middle aged guy.

            It is not even know for sure who pulled the trigger on the gun. You need to let this go cause no intelligent person is ever going to agree with you and the idiots you run with are just gonna get you killed.

          8. Billy Ray says

            Zimmerman was 28, not middle-age by any means. He is aggressive despite being pudgy and not fit. Yes Trayvon was leaner and more fit to fight, but that does not mean that Zimmerman could not engage him. The size difference in this case does not matter.

          9. Jimmy Quick says

            What is your age and build? I’ll prove you are wrong. Sign a disclaimer stating that you agree to the terms and I’ll pay someone to beat the stuffings out of you. The only risk is that you might die, but that is a risk your gonna have to deal with because that is something you will have to agreed to. One other thing, it has to be filmed so that I will have proof that you agreed to be ambushed and to get beat up by a superior fighter.

            Also, all rights to the video are mine because I paid for it. Then if you live, I’ll send you flowers and you can be part of the film too as you are recovering in the hospital and you can tell the home audience why you were so stupid.

            Sound interesting?

          10. Billy Ray says

            I don’t engage in fighting because I do not believe in it. Zimmerman on the other hand got the fight he was asking for. There should have been no self defense argument, except for there was not enough evidence that it was not self defense. The “not guilty” verdict by no means meant “innocent.”

          11. Jimmy Quick says

            I see you up voted yourself. Your own vote is the only one you’re gonna get.

          12. Billy Ray says

            I got 2 actually. You are at nil. But that does not matter. What matters is that some dude is dead because some novice with a gun could not handle the situation. What is worse is his arrogance and ignorance displayed after the trial.

          13. Jimmy Quick says

            I can agree this thing was way over played by the press, but most people have no idea how something like this is gonna play out and Zimmerman certainly was blindsided by it.

            How many times did you hear that Zimmerman was helping to raise two fatherless black youths or that his neighborhood was the staging ground for an inordinate amount of house burglaries or that Martin had a long criminal history or that Martin had drugs in his system when autopsied?

            These are facts you had to dig for if you were willing to allow the full story to be told.

            All the press kept running with were pictures of a 12 year old Martin, gunned down in cold blood by a “white” hispanic mad man. That became the story because Obama was paying for it and you had better not go up against that guy or you go to prison for some made up charge and your family gets destroyed.

            If you had jumped on this when the news was fresh, you would have seen that the real Martin looked like the monster he had become, before the internet was scrubbed of all of his other pictures.

            This thing had multiple victims, most of which have just been used as pawns like you to carry a false narrative and to stick to it no matter how many time other people tell you the truth.

        2. maddog0311 says

          Don’t waste your breath, you can not convince an idiot or anything because they don’t have the intelligence to process the information and arrive at a logical conclusion, i.e., 1+1=12 and they don’t seem to care! What can I say.

      4. Mike11C says

        Oh really? When did it become legal to assault someone and smash their head against a sidewalk? Maybe BEFORE the assault, “he was just walking home” but, he crossed the line because he didn’t like being surveilled. Everything that came out about this kid, after the incident, makes me believe wholeheartedly that he was acting “shady” and, that’s exactly why Zimmerman was watching him. If he would have just gone home, none of this would have happened but, he had a chip on his shoulder. He had NO right to double back and ambush Zimmerman which is exactly what he did. Zimmerman is the one who did nothing wrong.

        1. Billy Ray says

          Since when is it okay to stalk someone? Trayvon for all we know was defending himself against an armed man who was stalking him. If Zimmerman did not follow him, Trayvon would have just continued walking home. What would you do if someone followed you around with a gun and then confronted you?

          I believe it was likely a mutual engagement in the fighting, which automatically nullifies a self-defense argument no matter who is losing or winning. The only issue was that they could not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt that was what occurred and that it was not self-defense.

          Acting shady is not a crime. Trayvon was just walking home at 7 p.m. It wasn’t even an odd hour of the night. He had on a hoodie. So what? We have due process written in the Constitution numerous times for a reason.

          1. Mike11C says

            Zimmerman didn’t “stalk” him. He thought Trayvon was acting suspicious and, following someone walking through your neighborhood is NOT a crime. Also, Zimmerman’s gun was concealed, Trayvon had no clue he was armed. He might not have attacked him if he did.
            You may believe it was a “mutual engagement” but, I and the entire jury do not. It has been proven that Trayvon doubled back and started a confrontation. Self defense was the verdict in a court of law. Get over it already.
            No, acting shady is not a crime but, attacking someone who is watching you because of that shady behavior most certainly is. If he had just gone home, Zimmerman may have guided the Police to the residence to make sure but, no crime would have been committed. You do remember Zimmerman was on the phone with the Police at the time he was following Trayvon, right? He only hung up because he lost sight of him. That’s when he was attacked. Trayvon could have had his due process but, he took matters in his own hands and, he paid the price for that. Don’t forget, Zimmerman has Constitutional rights too. The right not to be attacked and, the right to defend yourself against physical violence.

          2. Billy Ray says

            Since when is walking home from a convenience store with skittles and Arizona iced tea while talking on the phone shady behavior? The dude was just walking home with a hoodie on, that’s it. And no, nothing was absolutely proven in regards to Zimmerman being attacked. There was a clear confrontation and likely mutual engagement. The jury had some members that wanted to convict Zimmerman but they just could not reach the high bar of beyond reasonable doubt. Zimmerman’s behavior post-trial erased my doubts, he had two arrests for domestic assault on two different girlfriends.

          3. Mike11C says

            Oh, you were there and, you’re an expert on what “shady” behavior is? “Shady” behavior is anything that just doesn’t look right and, that is open for interpretation. If you see someone you think is acting that way, you have the RIGHT to observe them and call the Police, which is EXACTLY what Zimmerman did. What you don’t have the right to do is attack someone who thinks you’re acting shady. “The dude was just walking home.” Well then, how do you explain why he doubled back to confront Zimmerman? “High bar of beyond reasonable doubt”? Yeah, that’s right. That is also in the Constitution. It’s funny how you are willing to embrace the Constitutional rights of Trayvon but, you don’t like when that same Constitution is applied to Zimmerman. Trayvon should have just gone home and called the Police himself saying, “Some dude just followed me home, I don’t know what his intentions are”. But NO, he had to take action himself which got him shot because he was slamming someone’s head against the sidewalk.

          4. Billy Ray says

            He was being stalked! Remember stand your ground? The whole premise is that you can stand up for yourself and fend for yourself, and the same for self defense. If you are under attack you don’t always have time to wait for police. He was under threat and was fending off a threat, someone who confronted him and mutually engaged him. Zimmerman pursued him, but remember Zimmerman is a novice at best with a history of aggression who is also a puss, not a trained policeman. I believe Zimmerman engaged him, making it mutual and nullifying the defense argument, but he was entitled to his due process which ultimately got him off.

          5. Mike11C says

            Well, today’s word of the day is “gullible”. It’s obvious that your mind is made up and, no amount of the evidence that was released will change that. Trayvon circled back around and confronted Zimmerman while he was on his way back to his truck. “Stand your ground” did not apply to Trayvon’s actions. “Mutual engagement” you say? If that were the case, why was it that the only marks on Trayvon, besides the bullet hole in his chest, were banged up knuckles? At the beginning of all this, the media fed you a story and, you bought it. First, they posted a five year old picture of him. Second, they (CNN) edited the 911 tape to make it sound like Zimmerman made a racial slur during the call. Then, they (also CNN) distorted the video of Zimmerman at the Police station to make his injuries look less severe. Why did they go to such great lengths to make it look like Zimmerman was guilty? The whole thing smelled like crap from the beginning but, slowly, the truth did come out. It’s too bad that some people (you) had already made up their minds that Zimmerman was a “racist” and guilty of “stalking”, “attacking”, and “murdering” a “sweet”, “little”, “innocent child” who never did anything wrong. Sorry Billy Ray, that’s just not reality.

          6. Billy Ray says

            Hogwash again. Trayvon was defending himself from Zimmerman and was knocking the crap out of Zimmerman, who like I said was a pudgy wuss who was aggressive. Half the jury wanted to convict him but were talked out of it, and fairly so as they could not reach the bar of beyond reasonable doubt. If you listen to Zimmerman since the incident you will see how bloody ignorant and arrogant he really is.

          7. Mike11C says

            Whatever Billy Ray. I didn’t listen to Zimmerman, I listened to the evidence that was discovered by Law Enforcement and, it painted a different picture than the one you’re looking at. I looked at maps of the area, pictures of Zimmerman’s injuries, Trayvon’s Facebook and Twitter posts, Law Enforcement statements and testimony, and the information released from the autopsy, as well as the undoctored 911 recording, and witness statements. What, or who, are you listening to, CNN’s purposeful distortion of the audio and video tapes, Trayvon’s parents, Al (race baiter) Sharpton, Jesse (the “has been” racial instigator), or Trayvon’s little lying girlfriend? Zimmerman’s ignorance and arrogance is irrelevant to the case, which is exactly why he was found “not guilty” and, that bar of “beyond reasonable doubt” is a right guaranteed by out Constitution. It’s there to protect us all, not just Zimmerman. It was proven that Trayvon had gotten away and, Zimmerman had given up trying to follow him. It was also proven that Zimmerman was headed back to his truck when, Trayvon came around and initiated the confrontation. This subject has been debated over and over for a few years now and, there is nothing new. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman feared for his life and, Trayvon was shot as a result. The evidence, which doesn’t lie, supports a version a lot closer to Zimmerman’s story than your skewed opinion.

          8. Billy Ray says

            You clearly don’t listen to Zimmerman, I don’t know how else you could stick up for someone with two separate domestic battery charges. And yes, I have followed this case as well. I don’t see the beyond reasonable doubt standard met, however I do have my doubts that it was truly self defense. The jury was also split initially on the case, and they definitely heard more than we did. It is not so clear as to how the attack happened or as to what exactly happened in those 40 some seconds of fighting and the minutes beforehand. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimmermanaccount.html

            In terms of race, Zimmerman profiled him, which in and of itself is racism. The phone call and the evidence clearly indicated that. He did not hate blacks, but at the same time you can’t tell me that if Trayvon was white he still would have been followed.

    2. sramsey says

      Elkhunt, you are a real idiot. I wanted to say so much more but as the Lord says, vengeance is mine. You can run but you won’t be able to hide from him. Laugh now cause you won’t be laughing then.

      1. elkhunt says

        LORD SAYS OBEY THE LAWS OF THE LAND AND ZIMMERMAN DID—TRAYVON DIDNT AND SO THE STORY GOES, HE IS DEADERN A WEDGE…YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WILL TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THE LORD WHY YOU TOOK UP FOR A COMMON THIEF,AND DRUG ADDICT AND A POSSIBLE MURDERER IF HE WASNT KILLED HIMSELF””””’

        1. jetmagnet says

          Your going to Hell. Your support murder, “thou shalt not Kill” you support murderers!

          1. Robert says

            Murder?? Who was murdered? Both Zimmerman and Wilson were DEFENDING their lives from Gangsta THUGS. Isn’t that the reason you carry? You do carry don’t you?

          2. ivan says

            interesting thing is of course, it was Zimmerman who was doing the following of Martin. It was Zimmerman who confronted Martin. Poor, Zimmerman, not man enough to fight like a man, but with a gun, that made him so much of one…really? Wonder how you all would feel if it had been a white man Zimmerman killed.

          3. jetmagnet says

            Zimmerman was a pussy, he needed a gun to be a man. He beat up his wife and his girlfriend, threatened to shoot his father in law. Look up what the pussy’s life was growing up. He molested a 13 year old. If he had any balls he would have left his gun in the car and approached the kid carrying a soda and skittles, no weapons. mano to mano. Pussies need a gun, cause they lack balls.

          4. Robert says

            With an attitude you have, one day you will meet the same fate. Calling people pussies because they carry a gun. A gun is a means to be an equalizer. A 5 foot 9 inch tall 185 pound man against a 6 foot 5 inch 250 pound man gives the smaller person a equal playing field. Bet you call little women who shoot thug rapists DICKS too?

          5. jetmagnet says

            I’m an a veteran and former agent. I’m not worried about anyone. If you go around thinking every black person is a thug, you’ve already lost.

          6. Robert says

            Where did I mention BLACK? Thug means black? Sorry, but color of skin is not what is important. CHARACTER is. Just as many WHITE niggers as Black. That argument doesn’t work with me.
            And, as always, Thank You for your service, whether we agree or disagree with each other on this subject.

          7. jetmagnet says

            Many righties are calling travon a thug, ok? That’s their excuse why he deserved to die, it’s racism. Now if you’ve studied the case, read the transcripts like I have you know it was a hung jury, bound by “stand your ground law”. You would know zimmerman is a nutjob and trayvon was just a kid minding his own business.

          8. Robert says

            But, I must disagree. Martin came back for a “visit” for Zimmerman to TEACH him a lesson. THAT decision is what got him killed.
            Just like a drinker does. After a case of beer, when that thought occurs ” I think I need another six pack” and they grab their keys, walk to the car, and while enroute to the store, kills a family of five on their way home from the movies. And of course the Drunk lives and while in court after the tragedy the Drunk says: “If they weren’t so rich, they wouldn’t have been spending all that money at the movies, and they wouldn’t have been IN MY WAY DRIVING TO THE BEER STORE.
            Sorry, but someday ou will have to admit ( to yourself) you stand on the WRONG side of the truth for this case.

          9. joe says

            no he deserved to die because he attacked the guy at that point he became nothing more than a target

          10. jetmagnet says

            In all my days working with the criminal justice system and courts i’ve never heard of a white criminal refered to as a “Thug”. The word thug came from a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. It was adopted here in america to describe black gang members and criminals.
            If you care to argue this point, show me reference in a rightwing rag, blog or forum that refers to a white guy as a “Thug”. lol

          11. Robert says

            Now, you could be correct that white criminals atre not called THUGS. I call all Street criminals THUGS. It is a CHARACTER trait. It has nothing ( at least for me ) to do with color of skin.
            So the white mafia strong arm “goons” are not THUGS? That is what I would call them( just before they shot me in the back of the head)

          12. Tired... says

            Growing up I watched the news and read a great number of murder mysteries. During that time there were a number of high profile killings within organized crime. In both of those contexts the word “thug” was used to describe mostly white members of organized crime or ethnic gang members who used strong armed tactics to intimidate people. Recently in more urban settings the term has been used to stylistically describe the culture of African-American gang members and those associated with it; but in reality the question is one of context. You may see it as the latter because of your experience; I see it as the former because of mine. The bottom line is that to many people the term “thug” refers to the intimidating tactics employed by an individual, not their skin color.

          13. Robert says

            Thank you. I grew up in New Jersey. Which everyone knows was the mafia’s dumping grounds in the 70’s and early 80’s. I observed the culture too, as a friend of mine on Occasion had family which knew the Testa mobsters. Met one once who was killed in Philadelphia.

          14. jimmy midnight says

            Maybe I’m a little older than you, but I remember thinking old-style white gangsters, typically Italian, but possibly Irish or Jewish, were what people meant when they used the term “thug” in, like, the 50’s and 60’s.

            Since the 80’s, thirty-something yrs. ago, we agree the term absolutely implies Black. Your etymology is also spot on.

          15. joe says

            you are delusional you racist liar

          16. joe says

            you damn liar you are and always have been a welfare monkey

          17. joe says

            racist pig

          18. Robert says

            It is not ILLEGAL to follow someone. In his roll as neighborhood watch, it was his duty to look out for the community. There had been a rash of break ins just prior to this confrontation. If Martin would have just stopped and asked “why are you following me” and said to Zimmerman “my daddy’s girlfriend lives here” then that would have been it. Unfortunately, THUGS don’t like to follow the law, which Zimmerman did. Zimmerman had a permit for his weapon. But did Martin have a permit for all the guns he was selling? You are defending the lawlessness.

          19. jetmagnet says

            He was told by police to stay in the car. did you read the transcripts?
            So if he was white he would have followed him, correct? Maybe he follows everyone carrying a soda and skittles, you know that’s a dangerous weapon. lmao

          20. Michael Dennewitz says

            You’re starting to sound like a baby that’s crying cuz his diaper is full of shit!! ?

          21. jetmagnet says

            Most of you fruitcakes are whining pussies. I worked undercover in black neigborhoods for years, never needed a gun. Little pussies like to show off and go kill a N**gr to be a man.

          22. Michael Dennewitz says

            Awwwww.. a brudder got his ass shot and da rest of you cry like little pissants. I’M in Florida, Orlando to be exact, and drug busts are made every other day. 99%of dem iz BLACK too!! Two days ago, a bank robbery…yep, you guessed it, three BLACK dudes.. Two damned lazy to GET A JOB and doin it “their” easy way. Oh, by the way, one of them died. Shot by a BLACK officer. We’ll never hear any more about it! ROFL

          23. Robert says

            Undercover? Such as LAW ENFORCEMENT? You don’t understand the law very well for being in prior law enforcement.

          24. Michael Dennewitz says

            You dumbass bootlip, you worked “under” the covers, of yer boyfriend, and you were a lookout for the drug cartel! Come on chickenshit, admit it!

          25. bb says

            Uuuhhhhh, bootlip, Uuuhhh!

          26. JoJo Gunn says

            HA!!! well that was mighty racist of you… Working undercover in black hoods…Thats profiling… Why were you there? Passing out lollipops? You contradict yourself.. Try another tactic. Go ahead.. Tell us how yu took the moral high road and quit law enforcement becaus of all the racial injustice.

          27. bb says

            YHe bought an ice cream stand with his cut of the money

          28. joe says

            you are also a liar

          29. Robert says

            Yes, I followed the trial very closely. My father lives not far from where this happened. The police did not tell him to “stay in his car” it was a dispatcher. And Zimmerman was out of his car looking for a street sign for a location. He had lost sight of Martin, and was walking back to his vehicle when Martin stepped out of the shadows and asked Zimmerman if he had a “F ING” problem then sucker punched him from behind.
            I carry also. In MY judgement, I would have only done one thing different. I would have shot Martin with a Glock. Cheap guns tend to jam and the reason to carry a weapon, any weapon, is to protect your LIFE. Exactly what Zimmerman did.
            Would I have done things different? Yes. I wouldn’t have got out of my vehicle. Zimmerman should not have got out. But, I am not Zimmerman.

          30. jetmagnet says

            The dispatcher is the voice of the police. I see you have no education in what the dispatcher’s duties are. They’re trained to handle situations b4 police arrive. Last time i checked you can’t shoot someone for taking a swing at you, ok? Your totally clueless about the law. Your life has to be in imminent danger, like someone taking swings at you with a baseball bat.
            Now zimmerman’s SYG defense was based on his head being pounded on the sidewalk. If you look at his head on the police video, it was a scratch that didn’t need any treatment. If he was a wannabe cop, you would think he could defend himself without a gun, I can. 99% of the time anyone can. Years ago fist fights where common, nobody was shot. Bloodied up a bit and hurt egos, maybe.
            Here’s why the SYG law is bullshit. Two angry people meet, both carry guns. One can shoot the other and claim his life was threatened if there are no whitnesses.
            The mere fact the dead man has a weapon gives support to the murderer.

          31. Robert says

            You got it all figured out don’t you. Every situation is different. That is why we have juries, courts, judges, and lawyers. You are very condescending. Your comment on my education shows that you have no regards for others folks opinions. Have a pleasant day.

          32. jetmagnet says

            Sorry, if you don’t know what a police dispatcher’s duties are. Fella, you never stop getting educated. If you think that is condecscending your looking at it the wrong way. If you want to read condescending remarks, just look at the ones aimed my way and I don’t whine about it.

          33. joe says

            you deserve it you are a well known racist in these forums and by the way we also thing of you as the village idiot

          34. JoJo Gunn says

            So if Martin was legit in his reason for being there, and innocent of any wrong doing, why was his response to assault Zimmerman instead of, I don’t know, talking to him? How is it you kool aid drinkers always fail to see these obvious facts… Yea.. Used to be fists, before that, from most rational people there was verbal resolution. And yea.. Why didn’t Zim just mind his own business? Why aren’t you now? A big part of the problem with our society these days, is everybody minding their own business…. When i grew up, everyone knew each other in my neighborhood, now, no one even looks at each other… Too busy minding their own business… Maybe 20 years ago when Martin was growing up… A few more folks should have paid attention, maybe they could have helped him make better choices in life.. Instead of minding their own business… Maybe if someone cared enough not to mind their own business, he would have cared enough to avoid the lifestyle he chose. Oh yea, one more thing… What goes on in my neighborhood.. Where my children live and play… Is MY business.

          35. joe says

            no moron it is not does it hurt to be so stupid

          36. bb says

            Yes you can.
            Semper Fi

          37. bb says

            All magazine fed weapons can and will jam. They will over heat and cook rounds. If there is one in the chamber and you are carrying it around it will go off safety or no safety.
            Semper Fi

          38. edjweaver says

            Well-stated, Robert.

          39. Robert says

            Thank you.

          40. joe says

            nope you are wrong you racist pig the rat deserved to be killed he became violent I dont care if George followed him around all day calling him the n word thats no reason to resort to violence you dimwit

          41. ivan says

            actually, you could get locked up for following someone if it is reported to the law. In this case, Zimmerman took the law into his own hands. A despatcher represents the law in most states at least. Only thing Zimmerman was looking for was trouble. As for guns being sold////whose, other than Zimmerman. Martin had no gun on him. He was unarmed.

          42. Robert says

            Actually, someone( in most states ) doesn’t hasve to have a GUN to “ARMED” . Every hear of Strong arm robbery? No gun, no knife, no baseball bat.. The act of FOLLOWING someone is not ILLEGAL in any state. Stalking may be, but Zimmerman was not STALKING.

          43. ivan says

            not stalking , right, guess that is why he got out of his car and followed, but that is not stalking. As for following not being illegal , if this had been a woman he was following, that is exactly what it would have been. If he had been minding his own business, none of this would have happened to begin with. AS for his being the so called “neighbor hood watch guy”, big deal, in his concern, he called the cops should have left it at that.

          44. Robert says

            You can’t change the variables such as gender to fit YOUR narrative.

          45. joe says

            that is NOT what happened you media puppet

          46. Janice says

            You can object to being followed and challenge the follower to cease following. Zimmerman is the asshole, not knowing how to respond to the challenge and deescalate a possible violence. Who knows Martin may have felt threatened and get mugged by the white man with a gun.

          47. icw says

            fists can kill, hello!

          48. ivan says

            well golly, sure a shame then that Zimmerman was to dumb to know how to use his own then.

          49. icw says

            to dumb or too dumb? check grammar, please

          50. Janice says

            You can evade and leave the scene or use soothing language and showing friendly demeanor to deescalate the situation.
            You don’t need a gun to defend against a fist.

          51. Robert says

            It is moronic to defend yourself with a fist against a gun too ( unless you don’t KNOW they have a GUN!) Such as in the Martin/Zimmerman case. That is why most folks that carry, carry concealed, just in case you are not well versed in firearm culture. Do you have a GUN? Oh, heck why did I actually ask that?????

          52. Janice says

            Robert,
            your obstinate self-indoctrinated firearm culture (yeah, the modern successor of the Ole Wilde West culture) dictates you to use your trigger finger upon no matter what perceived threat.

            I encountered one encounter in the 70’s in DC successfully against a “gun threat”. The mugger faked to have a concealed gun behind his leather jacket. And with my deaf eyes I could discern the protruding finger behind the jacket. I didn’t even need to use my fist or karate hand to fend him off.

            You completely misunderstood what I wrote what Zimmerman should have done to deescalate the situation. He would not have been confronted by Martin, had he started with a friendly banter at the VERY BEGINNING of the encounter. A civilian neighborhood watch should do this upon seeing an unfamiliar face, has he been trained properly

            You think, people are blind to whatever is behind the concealment? The concealment will be spotted. Your hand movement toward the concealment will give you away, if not already spotted before. Martin with his Black experience in the racist environment in FLA is attuned to the dangers and must have spotted the gun before the confrontation began.

          53. Mike Johnson says

            I worked in Harlem, Bronx, and Brooklyn, for 20 years. And while working I never confronted the wrong person. How do you know what options Zimmerman had, lying on his back with a bloody nose, and bruised head ? When two trains hit head on someone is going to get hurt. And a smart person white, black or purple usually knows to back down and walk away. Zimmerman called police, Trayvon could have backed down instead of attacking Zimmerman.

            As I understand you, you think Trayvon knew Zimmerman was armed so he hit him ?? Well he was high, I back away from guys with guns, but that’s me, in the old days I had my 32 auto, but backing away was the smart move. If you shoot the moron there are to many forms to fill out, and the legal fees are high.

            I’m a minority, my kids are minorities, as is my wife. The world is racist, damned right !! big deal. Everybody has a degree of racist thoughts, you more than most.

            Watch out for those Chinese drivers, but they make great food.

          54. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            You’re beating a dead horse, this was all hashed out and tried in public opinion and court, the punk lost all around, THE END

          55. Janice says

            Well the horse is not dead yet!

          56. joe says

            nope you are wrong you know NOTHING about the law chucklehead

          57. Janice says

            Martin most likely asked Zimmerman this “why you following me?” question, perhaps angrily, because noone likes to be followed and he sensed he was racially profiled. His Black experience justifies him to be angry, being so profiled. But something in Zimmerman’s response must have led to the escalation resulting in the physical confrontation. Zimmerman is the asshole, having the intelligence of a racist, and felt he must exert his authority (speak “white supremacy”) by pulling a gun, even though he was instructed not to do so. The thug is Zimmerman alone, who did not follow the order of the LEO’s..

          58. Robert says

            How about, as the court transcripts stated, Martin( a really polite church youth pastor ) stated ” You got a F ING problem”? THEN SUCKER PUNCHED HIM FROM BEHIND in the face.
            Then Martin, feeling so bad for being rude, offered to share his skittles and tea, a smoke a blount( code word for sharing his marijuana cigar, and a couple 40 oz malt liquors and sing kumbaya and some smores around the campfire. How’s that sound?
            Could of happened!!!

          59. JoJo Gunn says

            No different.. I don’t drink the kool aid your on.. It isn’t about race… Not EVERYTHING is about race!

          60. ivan says

            not about race you say. The only reason Zimmerman used for following Martin was that he was black ,.

          61. icw says

            here we go again. I am tired of this .black innuendo. black, white are the same. we all bleed red

          62. ivan says

            cool, I am a bit tired of the idea that it is fine just to kill , which it seems, most on here have no problem with that. Golly, hand me a gun,,,makes me a man, wooooooo

          63. icw says

            have you heard of a thing called “self defense” and hope it will not happen to you.

          64. Janice says

            Zimmerman’s and Officer Wilson in Ferguson were not acting in self-defense upon close analysis. The shooting is avoidable. The confrontation were escalated by them, by their pulling a gun. They were attackers!

            I was in a mugging situation in Washington, D.C. two years after Martin Luther King’s assassination The mugger pretended to be carrying a gun behind his leather jacket. I was able to defuse the situation. The best thing of the situation was neither of us had a gun.

          65. Tired... says

            Sorry, Janice, but Officer Wilson was clearly acting in self-defense. One only has to look that the initial struggle in the car to understand that Brown was the aggressor. It would be absurd for Wilson to pull Brown into the cruiser on top of himself where Brown’s bulk would have restrained Wilson while allowing Brown access to any potential weapon in the vehicle. If Wilson was gong to pull Brown, who weighed 100 pounds more than Wilson, into the car to shoot him, he would not have missed.

          66. ABO says

            Unfortunately, Tired, Janice is obviously not the least bit interested in hearing the truth as it doesn’t fit her delusional liberal agenda. Might as well talk to the wall.

          67. Robert says

            Too bad ( for both of you ).

          68. edjweaver says

            It’s obvious none of us can reason with you, Janice. Polite suggestion: why don’t you take you arrogant ignorance somewhere else. You’re just plain wrong here and you just don’t have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

          69. joe says

            you are a dullard

          70. bb says

            Hannibal might enjoy a meal.
            Semper Fi

          71. edjweaver says

            Ivan: Are you as dumb as you seem herein? Why don’t you comment on the young blacks — many children — who are murdered EVERY FUCKING NIGHT by other young blacks in (no specific order) Baltimore, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Memphis, Washington, Philadelphia, Wilmington (Del.), New York, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit and — hundreds this year alone — CHICAGO. And that’s just east of the Mississippi. Are those not murder? Do you not give a shit, you pathetic hypocrite?

          72. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            However because black male’s are more likely to participate in illegal activities they will bleed more red than white males

          73. Janice says

            What about the Mafia actions? Are they innocent? Your racism is showing!

          74. ABO says

            Your statement is quite possibly the most disjointed and incoherent thing I have ever read. Not surprising however, considering what you have been posting here thus far.

          75. Janice says

            The blood is red from any race, but the reality of our actions don’t see them the same. That’s what racism is about.

          76. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            However wasn’t Zimmerman trained to ” profile” individuals as part of his job at one time ? So you look at LEO’s as racist because they are trained to “profile” citizens ?

          77. elkhunt says

            zimm did a good job protecting himself from being killed and shot dead the idiot punk instead of wounding him and letting him back on the streets in a hour

          78. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            Yes Sir

          79. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            He wasn’t an LEO, he was an INSURANCE UNDERWRITER that was a part of a volunteer neighborhood watch/home watch program formed due to the rise of burglaries in the neighborhood. He was just a concerned, Hispanic citizen, that loved his neighborhood. Also, that whole “police are trained to profile,” nonsense is untrue because profiling is illegal.

          80. JoJo Gunn says

            Thank you for making my point…

          81. edjweaver says

            No, dipterd, the ONLY reason he was following Trayvon was because he recognized that Trayvon was not a resident of the development and, as I said, there had been numerous burglaries in the area. But, you be a good liberal and just ignore the facts. BTW, why don’t you call you local sheriff and police chief and ask them what percentage of drug-related crimes and committed by young blacks? (And I’m not saying Trayvon was on drugs but Zimmerman didn’t know that). The top drug-related crimes are burglaries and muggings — to get drug money. Ivan, if you would just lay their and allow yourself to be pummeled to death, and not draw your weapon to save yourself simply because your attacker is black, fine. But speak for yourself. I’ll defend myself and not worry what sniveling liberals like you think I’m a man or not. Along those lines, you have any idea the ages of Zimmerman and Martin and the heights and weights of each? I doubt it — and you probably don’t give a shit. Here’s something you also don’t know. George Zimmerman regularly tutored black students and took a black high school girl — a friend of the family — to her prom so she didn’t have to miss it. Some racist, huh? But I’ll say it again; you white liberals don’t let facts get in the way of your agenda. How sad!

          82. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Not to mention he is Afro-Peruvian and German. His mom, Gladys Cristina née Mesa Zimmerman, was born and raised in Peru by her black grandfather. His father, Robert Zimmerman, met his mother in Peru during a 22 year long military career followed by 10 years in the Department of Defense.

            Also, just because I like cleaning all the facts in this, he went to All Saints Catholic school and then Seminole State College. The shooting happened in Sanford Florida, a “doors locked, windows up,” neighborhood. (I live in Florida, used to live right outside Sanford)

          83. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            No, he had run Martin out of the neighborhood before for suspected drug use/distribution and burglary or unoccupied homes. Martin had a trespass order in effect and was not supposed to be on the property. Zimmerman was off rotation and leaving post when it occurred and he seen Martin slink onto the property through that dark alley (one Zimmerman reported to the cheap home owners association that the lights were in disrepair for weeks). He dispatched authorities but his gut, and responsibility as a citizen and concealed weapons permit holder in the state of Florida, told him that it is best if he, someone that can stop a thug criminal from hurting innocent people, kept a visual on Martin. Moments later he was proven right in his instinct as Martin began forcibly entering the residence of a disabled elderly man with no legs.

          84. edjweaver says

            Blatant ignorance — or liberal talking points — or BOTH — Ivan. I earlier posted why Zimmerman followed Trayvon because of the many burglaries in the housing development. The fact he was black could very well have been a secondary factor. I mean, what group commits well over 60 percent of the burglaries in the U.S.? Young black males. But of course, that’s another FACT that you liberals not only won’t accept, you deny it. Then you wonder why jerks like myself claim you have no credibility. Wise up!

          85. elkhunt says

            you idiot jo—-this has nothing to do with NASCAR

          86. JoJo Gunn says

            Oh…. Sorry, wrong discussion.

          87. Janice says

            Remember, Zimmerman was racist in mentality throughout. On this basis, he was doing his “neighbrhood watch”. Any unknown white face is OK, but any unknown black face with a hood jacket is suspicious. So racial profiling is happening..

          88. edjweaver says

            You know, your bullshit is really starting to annoy me. George Zimmerman is NOT a racist merely because the liberals from whom you get your (mis)information suggest or downright state that he is. George Zimmerman regularly tutored black students — FACT. He took a black high school student to her prom because she didn’t have a date. FACT. Just because the far-left, radical socialist liberals at MSNBC, CNN, NPR, NYT, Wash. Post, etc. didn’t report on that doesn’t make it untrue. Got it! It’s white liberals like you and them that keep race relations in the toilet. Stop with your lies and calling people you don’t know racists you liberal bitch! I have two black grandchildren and a great-grandson all of whom I love dearly. I don’t want them anywhere near today’s black culture and they sure as hell don’t need liberals such as you doing their bidding. And I can tell you, they would be royally pissed, both of my black grandchildren, to read of your calling me a racist. Take a looooooong hike. Janice.

          89. icw says

            You are so uninformed.

          90. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            You racist bastard

          91. ivan says

            and name calling makes you look so good.

          92. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            In this case yes, it’s simple and to the point. Truth hurts eh? Because people don’t agree with your opinion you label them as racist and YOU were the first to point out skin color and make a issue. I’ve given you too much time obviously your a liberal and there’s no talking to you

          93. ivan says

            really, and just who called who names on here? Pointing out skin color is not calling names… however, what you called me was. But of course, since it was you who did it and had to be someone else at fault first, republican you must be. AS for truth….. really….now it sounds like Trump.

          94. mr2bears@hotmail.com says

            You betcha

          95. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            It was also Zimmerman that prevented Martin, a drug-crazed teen criminal, from robbing an unsuspecting legless man.

            If a drug-crazed white man was breaking into the house of a legless man and got shot – Zimmerman WOULD have been heralded a hero, given the key to the city, and NOT been made into a social pariah. That is the TRUTH!

            Headlines: “LOCAL HOME WATCH SAVES DISABLED VETERAN FROM WOULD BE BURGLAR!”

          96. jetmagnet says

            He looked real hurt in the video in the police station, give me a fucking break. I know more about this case then you’ll ever know, I live in Florida. The fucker disobeyed police, hunted the kid down, antagonized him, them murdered him.
            The facts show the zimmerman was pissed off that day, and was tired of those damn N**grs hanging out at the complex, so he hunted the kid down and shot him.

          97. DJ says

            Strange. Zimmerman was part black. No race involved here.

          98. jetmagnet says

            He’s part hispanic, and he’s a known racist here in Florida. We know him. The cops know him real well.

          99. Robert says

            Funny thing, Zimmerman was so “racist” that he enjoyed TEACHING urban minorities. Hummm.. Try again.

          100. Tired... says

            Zimmerman had an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather.

            So, if you are correct…George Zimmerman is a left leaning, gun toting, racist murderer who cheats people out of money.

          101. Robert says

            Hispanic, but that didn’t fit the narrative for the media.

          102. Janice says

            No, his name is German or Jewish. He is tanned like most Meditarrean. His facial features are more Caucasian, not Negroid. Your eyes are not discriminating enough to know it like my deaf eyes.

          103. Tired... says

            It appears that your eyes have deceived you.

            From http://www.latinpost.com/articles/3250/20131024/george-zimmerman-ethnicity-white-latino-hispanic.htm

            “Zimmerman’s mother was born in Peru and has black ancestry, which includes her Afro-Peruvian grandfather. His father is white, and of German descent, and has had a long career in the military. Zimmerman’s voter registration lists him as Hispanic.”

          104. Robert says

            I know you won’t admit it, but you are wrong. Your language is appalling. You will have a more civil conversation with better vocabulary. My father lives in the Melbourne area. Plus, I also am a CHP holder.I have never hunted down anyone, although I almost had to pull my weapon Twice. One time they were white, once they were black. Just reaching into my jacket was enough to deter their actions, hence THEY ( and I ) both lived. Shame Martin didn’t do the same, and a shame for Zinn too. Try not being sdo biased. The court of law ruled Zimmerman NOT GUILTY. Should have been INNOCENT.

          105. Janice says

            Zimmerman got a meek prosecution, nearly exculpatory. Martin could not be there, even in spirit, to give his side of the story. The jury’s dismissal was based on the meek evidence that was presented and they were politically in support of the “hold your ground”-law in Florida. So the trial was wholly biased, a travesty of justice.

            The same kind of prosecution was done in Ferguson, Missouri. The DA purposefully confused and mislead the grand jury, made it difficult for them to indict.

          106. Robert says

            First of all, you don’t seem well versed in gun laws and regulations. It isn’t ” hold your ground” it is stand your ground. Which means you have no requirement or ” duty” to run away which is called ” retreat”. In some Liberal stated, usually the States with the toughest anti- self defense laws, the ones that you have to pull teeth to get a conceal carry permit, you are required to try to leave in the opposite direction or hide like a coward, before you can justify taking another’s life. This is not just limited to firearms either. If an intruder breaks into your house and it is only your wife home and the thug wants to ” do your wife” and all he has is a knife, and she shoots him with a gun, that is excessive force and your nearly “soiled” wife will be charged for use of excessive force. Her only recourse is to go get another knife to fight them off.
            Secondly, Mikey Brown assaulted the policeman and got what he deserved

          107. Janice says

            Mikey Brown was defending himself upon seeing Officer Wilson pulling his gun. First Mikey was responding to the verbal abuse by him. His demeanor may be threatening. But Wilson was in the power position. He was protected inside the car and trained to thwart his fist coming from an awkward position. Then Wilson continued shooting to Brown when he was walking away from the car, as witnessed by the construction workers nearby. The gun misfired. Then when he returned, although wounded, Wilson kept shooting, completely unneeded, he could walk back increasing the distance between them.
            Wilson at this moment was absolutely not in danger of his life at all.

          108. elkhunt says

            glad he did—-another black thug off the streets

          109. joe says

            you know nothing you are a RACIST PIG the little criminal rat got what he deserved

          110. Billy Ray says

            Zimmerman instigated the whole incident. There was probably a mutual engagement in fighting, which nullifies any self-defense claim except for that there was not enough evidence to show “beyond a reasonable doubt” that it was murder and not self-defense.

          111. Robert says

            Are you a lawyer, or prosecutor? Dang, we got to reopen the Zimmerman/ Martin case now!!!

          112. disqus_tKlEuAw2uq says

            GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT. killing AND MURDER IS DIFFERENT, PROTECTING YOUR LIFE IS NOT MURDER. New International Version

            For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

            New Living Translation

            For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

            English Standard Version

            For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

            Berean Study Bible

            For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker

          113. jetmagnet says

            Thou shalt not kill…end of story!

          114. DJ says

            I guess you try to live by Old Testimate Law. Jesus fulfilled the law because He new it was humanly impossible to keep the law. He gives us a way out!

          115. jetmagnet says

            So how many Romans did Jesus kill defending himself? You can’t argue with me, you’ll lose. Jesus, said, “turn the other cheek”.
            Thou shalt not kill, is God’s word, now you either believe in God or you don’t.

          116. Michael Dennewitz says

            Ahhhh, if you can’t win a debate with intelligence, drag out the Bible and misquote Jesus.. Put the Bible away and yer dumber than a damned rock! ROFLMAO

          117. jetmagnet says

            The problem with ignorant, unread, uneducated people like yourself..is if you can’t justify stupid, you insult and prove what stupid is to yourself and everyone else.
            I’ll challenge anyone on this subject, any preacher, teacher or professor.
            And the people here aren’t christians, they’re racist bigots that go against everything taught in the bible.

          118. Robert says

            Thou shalt not MURDER. God instructed many times for the Israelites to go take their land back and kill those that occupied that land. I don’t argue what the Bibles say, but the term Thou shall not kill is a translation.

          119. Michael Penson says

            Who r u to stand in judgement? “Judge not that u be judge.”

            Jesus stated “Then said he unto them, but now, he that hath a purse, let
            him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him
            sell his garment, and buy one.” Luke 22:36 at page 110 New Testament in
            the King James Version

          120. joe says

            the dump rat deserved to be shot zimmerman deserves a medal and a gift certificate to applebees

          121. joe says

            it was not murder you ass

          122. DJ says

            Actually it was self defense not murder. God recognizes our right to self defense. It was good vs evil. Martin was total evil.

          123. Janice says

            It was absolutely not self-defense. He was the attacker. Who was pursuing Martin? He knows Martin is not carrying any gun. He should just initiate a peaceful conversation. But his words were too unfriendly and threatening to turn the encounter into a fight. Martin was in self-defense, not Zimmerman, after seeing Zimmerman drawing his gun. At best Zimmerman could just say “Never mind, Have a good night” and leave the scene.

          124. edjweaver says

            Zimmerman did not pull the gun until Martin was slamming his head into the pavement, you lying liberal bitch. The witnesses all said they couldn’t know at what point Trayvon saw the gun. You’re succcccccccch a typical liberal. Just ignore the fact to put forth you “oh, the poor blacks” agenda. You’re pathetic.

          125. Janice says

            You don’t know the exact timing when the gun was pulled. Your version does not make sense. If Zimmerman was on the ground with his head being slammed, he would not be able to pull his gun. Police photo shows him slightly wounded, only a scratch on his head. He could not have been “slammed” to the pavement. This would leave more scratches on Zimmerman’s head.
            The most likely and sensible scenario is 1. Martin confronts Zimmerman. 2. Zimmerman pulls his gun fearing a physical attack (he had several other options). 3. Martin attacks him physically to prevent him from shooting and brings him to the ground. 4. Zimmerman had the gun already in his hand ready to shoot when falling to the ground. 5. He shoots him.

            You are only screaming invectives like most racists, lacking the ability of objective analysis.

            Don’t you see, Zimmerman becomes uncomfortable to see his gun provoking the image of Martin every night. For his mental sanity he must sell it. He has become mentally unstable, therefore, he should not carry any gun, at home or in the streets. His violence against two women proves it.

          126. Tired... says

            Even in your scenario, it would still be self-defense.

          127. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            You are arguing with a person who could be described as being devoid of reason. It is like getting into a pi**sing contest with a skunk. Her total reasoning (or lack thereof) is based on prejudicial speculation and bigotry.

          128. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Zimmerman had the tar kicked out of him… Pics above…Nose broken, deep tissue contusions, large laceration at the top rear of the head, a second deep laceration at the rear of the head, several other lacerations and abrasions on the head with severe bruising… Martin was dishing out some pain, don’t get it twisted. Zimmerman is guilty of choosing to live at another’s expense. All the liberal cry-whiners would choose the same if you threw them into the same situation with the same options.

          129. Janice says

            Shane, you are discounting what preceded. Martin needed to defend himself causing lacerations on his face. Simple! He would not need to be so ferocious, when not fearing of getting shot.

            It is simply a question of who did what FIRST to whom. All others follow this this first action. It amounts to the final analysis what is more problematic to begin with that caused the altercation, the stalking or carrying a gun, both on the side of Zimmerman and none on Martin.

          130. Janice says

            No, Zimmerman had other options, as shown above in the scenario, number 2. By not pulling a gun, chatting with him. will deescalate the confrontation. The violence occurs just because he PULLED THE GUN. Nothing more!
            It was NOT in self-defense. The other more common-sense option was not used.

          131. Tired... says

            I am all for avoiding the use of force but it is difficult to have a conversation when you were sucker punched.

          132. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            According to the three eye-witness neighbor’s that saw the whole thing from the point of when Martin entered the alley, they described it as having never seen a gun. The witnesses say that Martin entered the alley, a few moments later Zimmerman entered the alley, Martin jumped on Zimmerman and Zimmerman called for help, then Martin started repeatedly slamming Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk, Zimmerman pleaded for Martin to stop, a moment later a single shot was heard, and Martin slumped to the side.

          133. Janice says

            This portion, the final encounter was after Zimmerman’s followed him. Martin entered the alley to observe him, trying to verify his suspicion. Seeing it confirmed, he attacked him. The statements of witnesses can be taken with some grain of salt. A gun can be unseen from a distance by witnesses, but clearly seen by Martin, perhaps even before he entered the alley.

            The wounds on Zimmerman’s head are grass. But they do not prove a ferocious fight occured, just abrasions from the contacts with the pavement, no bruises on the face.

            The point you missed, this altercation would not happen if Zimmerman initiated a friendly chat before the incident in the alley happened.

            Your previous statement that Martin entered a home of a legless veteran is incredible. Did Martin do it before the confrontation, even on the same day?

          134. Robert says

            You ever serve on jury duty? You should be disqualified if they ever make that mistake!!! For Justice’s sake!!!

          135. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            ROFL!

          136. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Where are you getting a dialogue that occurred between them? There is no mention of any conversation they had in ANY of the official reports. I mean, not even statements that were omitted later. Where are you getting your information?

          137. edjweaver says

            “Official reports?” What NBC, ABC, Miami Herald, PBS, CNN? Get some accurate news sources, then come back,

          138. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            NEWS sources? ROFL! Try public records… You know, court records, police reports, autopsy and coroner’s reports – all public domain. Listen to the news and hear a slant, read for yourself and get an educated opinion.

          139. Janice says

            So FOX is your acceptable source? You don’t even accept accurate facts that do not jibe with your bias.

          140. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Also, how could Zimmerman know if Martin did or did not have a gun? Second, Zimmerman did not have a duty belt and holster, he was carrying concealed, ergo, Martin never seen the gun, except maybe in his final moments after being shot.

            Martin was pulled out of the window of a disabled man’s home that he was burglarizing!? Criminals have no right to self defense. The moment you commit a crime against another your rights are temporarily suspended.

            I would love to know what crack media you are getting your story from – this one is totally new to me.

          141. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Zimmerman should have said “Never mind, have a good night,” and left the scene… Allowing Martin to rob an elderly disabled person? Do you have security or neighborhood watch where you live? Would you appreciate it if that was your house he was breaking into?

          142. DJ says

            I’m glad we are saved by Grace! We won’t go to Hell for our sins. They have and will always be forgiven.

          143. Michael Penson says

            We are saved by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Grace is what you say over food like pork,

          144. daveveselenak says

            self defense is not murder – stupid!

          145. icw says

            amen

          146. Janice says

            KIlling or murder or homicide, the semantic difference does not matter. All of them are TRAGIC and unnecessary.

          147. Robert says

            There is a LOT of differences between self defense and taking a life, and taking a life by murder. But a person not knowing the difference, can’t understand “common sense” either. Those folks are called Liberals who desire the police to protect everyone, and for no one to be able protect themselves. That’s a group which YOU belong to. Give it up.

          148. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Murder – when you plan in advance to kill another person with malice aforethought.

            Manslaughter – when you accidentally kill another as a result of negligent or abusive behavior.

            Self-Defense – when you kill another that you reasonably believe is trying to kill you.

            They seem pretty cut and dry in their difference.

          149. Robert says

            That was the point I was trying to make to Janice. But as you can see, she just don’t comprehend what self defense is and that if law abiding citizens don’t have means to protect themselves, only the THUGS will have firearms. And that our 2nd Amendment “right” doesn’t come from the Government, but that the Constitution limits the government from infringement of that right.

          150. Robert says

            Sometimes killing IS NECESSARY. that was an idiotic statement.

          151. WhiteFalcon says

            Made by a true idiot.

          152. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            So, what is your resolution to the “rabid dog,” mentality (or a rabid dog for that matter)? Like these radicalized kids that fall in with terrorist groups. They make bombs and kill dozens of people per detonation, they cut the heads off of people of other religions or those that support capitalism, they rape and kill women and children for breakfast… Are we supposed to talk to them? Hug them? Give them a trophy? Give them free housing and Obamacare? What should society do? I mean, in your experienced opinion…

          153. WhiteFalcon says

            I was just adding to the post made by Robert. He said to Janice “…that was an idiotic statement.” and I said “Made by a true idiot.” I guess I wasn’t clear enough. The true idiot is Janice.

          154. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            No worries… Sorry if I gave you the Nth. Getting tired of idiocy.

          155. Robert says

            So, whom are you referring to as a true IDIOT?

          156. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Some people believe in infinite victimhood unto death… It makes them feel like martyrs or something, even if it is pointless and will be instantly forgotten. You must live with the burden of a lot unnecessary guilt for that.

          157. Robert says

            True. Have you read some of the comments Janice made? She throws in her own ideas of what Martin was thinking, how he responded to Zimmerman pulling out a gun on him, and how nice Martin was to Zimmerman, how Martin knew he was being “profiled” etc etc…
            She sounds like Nancy Piglosi or Diane Feinstein talking about Assault Weapons!!! No actual knowledge of what she is talking about
            And Thank You for your service, it is much appreciated.

          158. Janice says

            NO, definitely unnecessary. It was NOT in self-defense. There was no war there.

          159. Robert says

            You are qualified to make that judgement that it was “NOT in self defense” by what authority? The jury might have something to say like NOT GUILTY, due to his ” hold his ground” defense.

          160. joebabe says

            Janice, read most of your posts………sorry,,,,,,,fubar. Had Zimmerman been unable to stop the threat of death or grave bodily harm …..he would have probably died. A skull bashed on concrete is not good for the skull.. That would have turned out differently too. You are “second quessing” the results of a trial by jury! Go ahead, continue to attack GZ, see how many people you can convince…..u r unbelievable!

          161. Mike Johnson says

            When you are bloody, on the ground from being attacked talking time has gone by. And Trayvon was high, have you ever tried to reason with a drug addict when he is high ??? While most people would avoid the situation, and waited for the police, that still does not change that Trayvon attacked, and got shot because he choose to attack.

          162. WhiteFalcon says

            I was adding to the last of your statement. The true idiot is Janice.

          163. Robert says

            Thank you for the clarifying that for me. I can sometimes be the IDIOT. You just saved me some embarrassment and alot of typing!!! Thanks again.

          164. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            We should have let Hitler take over the world right?

          165. Janice says

            Shane, your rejoinder is wholly pointless. I won’t even ask you what your point is. Your historical knowledge of what transpired in Germany is faulty and narrow-minded to draw parallels with the insane use of guns in this country. I grew up there and am much more knowledgeable about the Dritte Reich.

          166. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Janice,

            Ha-ha… Like the Zimmermann Telegram…

            You may be more well versed of the works of Arthur Moeller van den Bruck than I – I will agree, and I must admit that I never read much Nazi literature except Mein Kampf (in high school). I was more a fan of the Treaty of Versailles in that era of history. Although I am familiar with the works of Friedrich Nietzsche, who Moeller van den Bruck borrowed a lot of philosophical ideas from, especially his anti-Marxist views.

            However, you know that is not what I was talking about.

            You know nothing about me. My mother was born in Pirmasens and raised in Husum. My mother’s family was shattered into two by the war and to this day, half her family won’t even talk to us because they were indoctrinated in fascist beliefs. I also read my grandfather’s war memoirs (and got a beating like you wouldn’t believe) when I was a teenager. I have been to Germany many times in my life, usually around Schleswig-Holstein (Rendsburg, Neumunster, and Lubeck typically – to visit family) but we did a few tours of more popular areas.

            Just because my father was a Scot, and I am a first generation American, don’t think I’m ignorant to European history (or world history), nor act like you have any more experience in the world than someone you don’t know. It doesn’t behoove our interaction and I don’t appreciate the condescension.

            Ich kann hier sitzen und deutsche worte zu sprechen wenn ich wollte. Es erweist sich als nichts.

            My point is in response to your ideal that there is never a reason to kill. Yes, there is… The use of overpowering force to defend oneself or another’s life is perfectly acceptable when one or another’s life is in imminent danger.

            Hitler was a murderous tyrannical dictator with an indoctrinated army of fanatics that were viewed as incapable of compromise or societal assimilation. They would not have stopped their invasions until they were stopped… by force (and we see that he did not stop until he was forced to, through violent response). Other similar madmen of history are Rafael Trujillo, Muammar Gaddafi, Franciso Nguema, Saddam Hussein, Koki Hirota, Ismail Enver Pasha, Nicholas II, Hideki Tojo, and many more – all stopped by violence and death.

            If they did not wish to die violent deaths, maybe they should not have led violent lives.

            There are – without a doubt – situations where killing is not only an acceptable idea, but may be the only available option. Villainy will always find a way to kill when it wants to. Why shouldn’t the other side have a fighting chance?

            I have to ask, because your little avatar picture looks like you have a family. I myself am a father of two. If an attacker were present and harming one of your children, and you had a gun in your possession, would you not shoot the attacker? Could you stand by and watch another be killed when you have the option to stop it? (even if they were just a defenseless stranger)

            If not, how could you live with yourself after?

          167. Janice says

            Ach, your justification seems to be able to kill a tyrann. Hmm, were McKinley, Lincoln, Kennedy brothers, Reagan tyranns to invoke the 2nd Amendment rights of gun owners (this “right” only applies to the paranoid gun owners). What about Martin L. King and Gabbi Gifford? Were the Mafiosos invoking the 2A to kill each other? Were the Druglords? They were purportedly “defending” themselves. The Mafias could bring up the same rhetorik about protecting their families.

            Just look at how the victims of those assassinations have become advocates for sensible gun control. You are telling them how they “could live with themselves after”, using your words? Are you telling them to regret not having a gun with them? Are you telling the Newtown, Stockdale, and Aurora mothers to stop their anti-gun activities and arm themselves afterwards with automatic weapons?

            In gun-rich countries, political opponents got shot during the election campaigns.

            But in reality, it could go without guns, even better so. I survived a mugging attempt in the 70’s in DC, exactly because the attacker did not have a gun, but was faking to be holding one behind his leather jacket. No gun owner, however trained could defend against an attacker holding a gun, ready to shoot. Even a kid holding one, even a two-year old toddler. There are too many stories to attest it. Statistics bear that out too. You need to contrast US gun fatalities with those in Germany and several other European countries. The markant difference can only be ascribed to the huge difference in gun ownership in those countries and here. Australia, which has a more similar gun culture as the US, is now “experimenting” with the idea of reducing the general gun ownership. Lo and behold, it does work there in reducing deaths by guns.

            I have been living in this country for over 50 years and have been doing fine. Don’t give me this BS psychosis of needing a gun to defend myself and my family against any attacker. The NRA was only hyping up the hysteria of enemies around us, of Hitler, Mussolini, Gaddafi, Trujillo, Saddam, and all the names you dropped. Your throwing in the name of Hitler was extremely dumb.

          168. Robert says

            Oh, never mind…. No matter what anyone says to you, YOU just don’t get “IT”. Always some comeback like…Australia being similar to the US gun culture experimenting with the idea of reducing ‘general gun ownership’.
            I think you better give Hillary Clinton a call. Maybe she can let you know, and you might believe HER but Australia pretty much is a gun free zone ( except for the criminals!!!) PLEASE ASK HER!!!.
            ANOTHER INSANE STATEMENT: the NRA is ” hyping up the hysteria of enemies such as HITLER,MUSSOLI,GADDAFI,Saddam,etc.” This just shows how much a Liberal nut case you truly are.

          169. Janice says

            Robert,
            you ask yourself Hillary the question. I don’t need to do so. I know her answer already. She will confirm the fact as I stated. Australia was not a gunfree country, but has become nearly so by an act few years ago. Thank you for confirming my statement.

            The names of tyrants comes from your Master Gunnery Sgt USMC friend, who wants to show me that civilian gun ownership would have killed them, which is shown to be absurd. I heard too many times from the NRA the argument along this line, which MGySgt just repeated. Yes, the NRA and the gun nuts have brought up the notion that the 2A gives you the right to kill a tyrant. I encountered more than a couple times the contention, “The holocaust would not have occurred, had Hitler not confiscated guns from the Jewish people” and similar absurd arguments.

            Being liberal is a honor! The word carries only positive meanings, even in connotation, in all languages that have it in their vocabulary. Only for gun nuts in THIS COUNTRY is the word an insult. The misused “insult” ricochets immediately back to you, like a misfired bullet from your gun that fails to reach its target.

          170. Robert says

            Oh, where to start??? OK.1) the 2nd Amendment gives us the TOOLS to overthrow a TYRANTICAL GOVERNMENT. Not to “kill” our TYRANTICAL leader. 2) All those mentioned by OfcShane, as far as I know, were overly oppressive and had ORDERED civilians murdered enmass. 3) I would bet my life on it that IF Odumbo were stupid enough to DECLARE all guns illegal and went about systematically coming for our guns, that we civilians would not be subjected to a Holocaust that the Jews were by HITLER. Why? Because we have guns and will NOT turn them in. 4) Australia ( even the folks in government ) now realize that only the CRIMINALS INCLUDING the muzzies will have guns. Their muder/ rape/ and violent crimes have risen massively in the past several years. 5) Is it really an “honor” to be a mal- adjusted Looney toon, that doesn’t follow our rule of laws ie the Constitution, and feels that the MURDER ( and you yourself said there is few instances where it is JUSTIFIED) OF HARMLESS FETAL TISSUE( also known as an unborn human) is held in high regard?
            Yes, you can be happy and honored to be labelled a Liberal. Have at it!!

          171. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Your rhetoric is all across the board Janice. However, I still read through all of it.

            1. The right to keep and bear arms, does not only apply to “paranoid gun owners,” but to all US citizens. Actually, if you have a psychological diagnosis of paranoia you cannot own a gun in the US.

            2. When people start talking about the MAFIA, gangs, and drug lords in regards to the 2nd Amendment, they are petitioning to ignorance. Do you honestly believe that criminal organizations give a crap about laws? Hello, they are criminals! If they want guns they will get guns – damned be any laws.

            3. I don’t think any victims of assassinations can advocate for much if they were assassinated. People with agendas USE those deaths to advocate but the victims are dead and unfortunately no longer have a voice. Martin Luther King was a gun owner and advocated for gun rights (and all rights) when he was alive. Look it up.

            4. In the shootings you listed, no automatic weapons were used… In Newtown a .223-caliber Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle, a 10mm Glock 20SF handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer P226 handgun were used, in Aurora a M-16 rifle, a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun and a Glock 22 .40-caliber pistol were used, in the Stockdale shooting it was a shotgun (no model listed). These are all civilian (sports) grade single action and semi-automatic weapons. None of these are automatic weapons.

            5. In 2004 I survived a mugging attempt in Cumberland County NJ, with an armed attacker who was poised and ready to shoot his stolen Beretta 9mm semi-automatic pistol during the robbery. I used my Krav Maga hand to hand fighting techniques to disarm my assailant and turn his own gun against him. Aside from robbing me he planned to take my 21 year old, 4′ 10″ 97lb fiancee (at the time) hostage as a bargaining chip in his getaway. He was 17 years old and I was 24 on leave from OIF for Christmas. I will never be caught without my own firearm again and would sooner die than give up my right.

            6. I love it when people talk about contrasting US fatalities with the EU nations. First convert the numbers to “per capita” since none of the puny EU nations have 317,000,000 people and 250+ metro cities. Then look at the numbers. Yeah the EU reports low figures right? Now look at unsolved crimes and missing persons. WHOA! You are like 5000 times more likely to get gone without a trace in virtually ANY EU nation than the US huh? Over a million people go missing in the EU every year – vanished without a trace, never to be seen again. Where are they? Probably dead and buried in the hills somewhere or at the bottom of some bog and do the police give a crap? Nope, because if they find those bodies they’d have to report the murders right? Then your numbers argument goes down the tubes. You are quoting “reported” fatalities, not projected.

            7. The gun fatality rate in Australia decreased (“reduced deaths BY guns” – because less guns, makes perfect sense) but crime rate and violent crime rate increased – so fat lot of good that did right? You are less likely to be shot to death and more likely to be bludgeoned to death. Being bludgeoned to death is so much better than shot to death in my opinion. What was it that diamond miner guy Smiddy used to kill his wife and three kids after she turned over his hunting shotgun, a table leg!? Much better way to go! Smashing your wife and kids skulls with a table leg. Yep big improvements there. I’m sure his psychiatric rehabilitation will be much easier for re-assimilation into society.

            8. I NEVER – EVER have read anything from the NRA dropping ANY of the names that I mentioned. Trujillo – seriously!? NO ONE outside of college educated advanced history students (and Dominicans of course) know who Rafael Trujillo is! The same can be said for Franciso Nguema, Koki Hirota, Ismail Enver Pasha, Nicholas II, Hideki Tojo, and many others! These are not common grade school or even high school names. This comes from either in depth collegiate research or advanced autodidact historical obsession (something I suffer from both of). Also, I never mentioned Benito Mussolini but yes, he was also an executed madman (along with his mistress Petacci and 13 others) in village of Giulino di Mezzegra, in Como and shot by “Colonnello Valerio.”

            Your argument is 90% fallacious liberal Kool-Aid garbage! I thought your come back would be far more intelligent, intellectually honest, and factual than that. Especially considering you claim to be a German, a studious and scientific people.

          172. Mike Johnson says

            Guns are not the problem, never were, and never will be. Poverty, mental illness, and poor education are the problem. The biggest problem is the poor, and parents who were not educated, raising children who do not understand the importance of an education. Look at ISIS, a bunch of ignorant morons who have never had any education. They actually think they can take over the world.

            King and Lincoln were the greatest men in history, both shot by ignorant morons. Both assassins though they would be heros. And all the gun laws in the world would not have saved them. They were targets because of their believes. Both could have had better protection. And both must have known they were targets.

            EDUCATION is the key, JOBS are the key, I also believe RELIGION is a key. I know the atheists will disagree, and sorry but the BIBLE is the better of the books.

            American has given up on GOD, and that is why we have no respect for life, add in no jobs, no education and you have a deadly mix.

          173. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            As far as the gun argument is concerned… What also of bladed weapons, blunt objects, personal weapons, strangulation/asphyxiation objects, fire, drugs, drowning, poison, explosives, automobiles, power tools, etc?

            The problem in the United States isn’t the instrumentation of the murders but that fact that such stressful political, social, and economic situations exist to drive people to murder. That is the real issue everyone wants to avoid because it isn’t an easy fix. Banning guns is easier. Afterward it will be knives, swords, and cutlery. Then batons, clubs, and baseball bats. Then martial arts, boxing, and wrestling. Then rope and plastic bags. Then flame emitting objects. Then all drug that can potentially be overdosed. Then pool and bathtubs. Then any chemical that can be rigged to explode. Then your driving privileges. Then power tools… Finally, sticks and stones… Because you know what, if someone wants to kill – they will find a way.

          174. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            It is when you’re an idiot…

          175. Janice says

            Only a true self-defense is not a murder. But many killings are defended as a self-defense which are in the final analysis not. Too much credibility is often given to the surviving shooter, claiming self-defense.

          176. daveveselenak says

            Getting your head bashed against the cement by a thug and wanna-be gangsta high on drugs is self-defense, if you can not see this then you are deluding yourself – put yourself in his place, what would you have done – kissed and made-up?

          177. Robert says

            She would have told Martin that she understood his victimization of being black in the racist white man’s oppressive society and Martin would then feel a common bond to her and would have apologized and went to church with her the next Sunday and afterwards he would treat her to dinner and dance to show his appreciation for her understanding his plight!

          178. An American says

            No , The original reading states, thou shall not murder If someone is trying to murder you, you have the right to defend yourself. If that requires killing them in self defense , its not murder !
            ,

          179. jimmy midnight says

            It all depends on translations and interpretations. And we be up against variations in that even if we were dealing in “original” Hebrew or Greek.

          180. icw says

            your?

          181. Tired... says

            Help me understand your logic. How does the commandment “thou shalt not kill” mean that Elkhunt is going to hell?

          182. JoJo Gunn says

            Kill is inaccurate… The Scripture, when translated correctly, says Murder.. There is a difference..

          183. GaryE says

            You liberal idiots. I have yet to see any intelligence out of you idiots who think you know what your talking about who have not been there or done that. Lets see what you do when you have a nano second to defend yourself. Tired of all of you idiots who can sit in your safe space telling others what they are when it would be whole different story when your the ones who are being attacked. You are so clueless and ignorant when it comes to the real world. JETMAGNET please do yourself a big plus and keep quiet so as not to expose yourself as the moron that your are. I’ve seen housefly’s who are much more intelligent.

          184. elkhunt says

            you idiot liberal dimorats would be singing out of a different song book if criminals like Trayvon killed your little daughter—You numb skulls would want his head chopped off

          185. joe says

            it is not murder to kill a dump rat they are pests

          186. John E Strom Jr. says

            jetmagnet, where did you “learn” English? Your spelling and grammar are pathetic. I’m guessing YOU went to public school and had one of those liberal NEA teachers.

          187. edjweaver says

            Nobody murdered anybody that night, moron. And it’s you’re, not “your going to hell.” Go back to school and learn something.

        2. Michael Penson says

          You are correct! Luke 22:36

          Jesus stated “Then said he unto them, but now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” Luke 22:36 at page 110 New Testament in the King James Version

          1. Tired... says

            Help me understand how that verse supports Elkhunt’s statement.

          2. Michael Penson says

            ZIMMERMANJesus gave permission (His Authority) for all to be able to defend themselves, family, friends and property. The Founding Fathers knew and read the Holy Scriptures daily. Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill.” at page 91Old Testament in the King James Version. Romans 13:1 ……….No higher power. Acts 5:29 …….We ought to obey God (Elohim אלהים) rather than men”. All laws come from the Holy Scriptures (please stop using the word bible). God first, family. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. ( YAHUSHA
            (יהשע) is the Messiah. TRAYVON would have killed ZIMMERMAN. You know it in your heart. Drugs was the reason for the attack. The democrats have used the blacks terribly. They tried to the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Johnson was the Speaker of the House and refused to bring it on the floor of the house for a vote. After the civil war the democrats organized the KKK. They kill thousands of blacks. The muslims have and use slaves to this very day. And the democrats supporter the Muslims. Even the BHO has stated that he is black. Another lie. He is a Arab. If you would like to speak to me find me on Facebook. Pray. Pray because there terrible times coming to the United States.

          3. anAmericanByChoice says

            Correction: the correct wording is not “Thou shalt not kill.” but “Thou shalt not murder.” This said, there is decency and then there is debauchery. The picture is in bad taste.

          4. Michael Penson says

            Right

          5. Janice says

            Zimmerman was not defending himself. He was the attacker. He had a gun and was following Martin. By virtue, he was following him, he is the attacker automatically. Anyone will be incensed when followed. There was an exchange between them that Zimmerman conveniently did not report before the fight happened. Martin saw the gun, he knows he must defend himself, otherwise he will be shot no matter what, given Zimmerman’s temper (he was charged with physical abuse against women repeatedly). It was Zimmerman who escalated the confrontation into violence. He was even instructed twice, not to use the gun.

            Now his conscience is banging him. The gun is a constant reminder of his misdeed.

          6. John E Strom Jr. says

            Janice YOU are an ignorant fool. Trayvon Martin stalked Zimmerman and punched him in the face. Get your facts right.

            Unless you’re black, then forget about facts – just go with “Whitey Dun it.” It’s worked for Obama and ‘the brothers in the hood’ for years.

          7. edjweaver says

            Like I said, Janice, white liberals (and some blacks) just ignore what witnesses ALL report. Zimmerman certainly did report a suspicious person in the area he was authorized to act as a civilian patrol in a development where numerous burglaries had occurred. He was NOT instructed anything about any gun. The policeman on the phone suggested he not pursue Trayvon, a suggesting that was in no way legally binding. Eventually, Zimmerman did end his pursuit but in the meantime, according to TRAYVON’S OWN WORDS to his girlfriend on the cell phone, he doubled back and confronted Zimmerman. It’s white liberals such as you who keep race relations in this country in constant stress.

          8. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            You nailed her! Her lack of analytical thinking is immeasurable. This seems to be a common attribute with all liberals.

          9. Michael Penson says

            No ma’ma U are wrong.

          10. Tired... says

            We all see what we want to see. Would you double back and confront someone who was following you at night when no one was around? I wouldn’t. And it appears that Trayvon wasn’t interested in confronting Zimmerman; instead he chose to sucker punch him.

            Even though I can legally carry a firearm and often do, I would prefer to avoid the fight than to provoke it. Therefore I would have headed back to the store where there were lights and witnesses and/or called the police if I was concerned for my safety. Trayvon’s actions that evening suggest that he was looking for a fight, not trying to avoid one.

          11. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            You have special knowledge of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin prior to the attack? What was it? Where and what is the proof of your allegation? By your analogy any officer who approaches another person is an “attacker.” Your prejudice is glaring .

          12. edjweaver says

            No, we don’t but we choose to take Zimmerman’s word for it because the WITNESSES BACKED UP EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAID. Our prejudice is glaring, yours is blinding — because you wanted Zimmerman to be guilty simply because the victim was black. Trayvon told his girlfriend — who originally lied and could have been charged with perjury — that he was going to go back and “get that cracker.” Your a liberal disqus VNW…, so just ignore the facts as you liberals so often do.

          13. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Ed, I think you may have misfired there… He/she was just asking rhetorical and ironic questions to Janice. Obviously, Janice didn’t closely follow the case but is spouting “original” disinformation about it.

            (I say original because I actually followed this case and read a lot of public records like the court transcripts, coroner’s report, autopsy report, and police report records releases, and some of what she is is saying was NEVER BEFORE MENTIONED ANYWHERE! LOL! – it’s like, “she heard, that some guy on Twitter, tweeted her cousin’s Facebook friend about something he may have read on some meme on some website,” type information.)

          14. Janice says

            Shane, what you get on “public records” does not convey the whole picture that helps me understand the situation. Out of the conflicting statements, you best reduce them to a skeleton of very basic facts, discount whatever Zimmerman claimed in his defense. Martin is dead and has nothing to say on his behalf. Most relevant is the essence of the shadowing Martin and the ensuing skirmish. The fact is also that there seems no verbal exchanges between them exist. Zimmerman as the pursuer should start at the very beginning with something like, “Hey friend, are you new in this neighborhood?”, which appeared not to have happened.

          15. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Of course it didn’t, Martin wasn’t new to the neighborhood, he had been trespassed from the neighborhood previously because he was suspected of being one of the potential burglars. Zimmerman followed him as he entered the property of a private community, of which Zimmerman was serving as a volunteer neighborhood watchman.

            Another thing, I am not really drawing from either the prosecution or defense’s statements, nor am I drawing from any of the garbage the media sold us. I am going by the 11 eyewitness accounts (3 from the start, 5 more in the middle of the incident, and 3 more near the end – their statements were conjecture at best since they arrived after the shot), the presented evidence from the coroner’s and autopsy reports (this is hard science), and the corroborated facts and forensics presented by the detectives assigned to the investigation.

            I am talking cold, hard, fact. No sides nor bias. No political or media slant. Just fact.

            No one has the whole picture because no one is inside the heads of Martin and Zimmerman except themselves… However, we have the facts gathered from the investigation. This is what a court uses to prosecute and the jury uses to convict.

            Does this tell us whether Zimmerman is a racist or Martin a thug – no, it doesn’t establish motive. It does establish if Zimmerman was within his rights to defend himself or not, which is the question in a “murder or self-defense,” scenario.

          16. Janice says

            You seem to suspect Martin to be doing burglaries. If Martin weren’t new in the neighborhood, why must Zimmerman be following him. Martin is visiting his family in the neighborhood. Something is fishy there in the statements.

            That’s what can transpire in a court of law, given its limited ability to adjudicate, given its “innocent until found guilty” bias to the defendant. Zimmerman is found not guilty just because of “reasonable doubt”. Nothing more.

            Outside of this, Zimmerman is the causer of the conflagration. Only because he had a gun, a death occurred. Is shooting justified or not is wholly debatable. What we are considering here is a multifaceted social problem. The problem of crime and racism and all the aftershocks from them, plus the presence of a gun compounds the problem. Just play the scenario, had Zimmerman not carried a gun, a very different outcome would have come which resulted in no deaths. Most notably, the psychology of feeling the power of a killing machine in your hand (or on hip) engineers the chain reaction of killing and killing, unfortunately indeed.

          17. edjweaver says

            If he didn’t have a gun, Zimmerman may have died (would you have given a shit?). Who knows when the much stronger Trayvon would have stopped slamming his head. Nobody is suggesting that Trayvon was behind the burglaries but he did have a fairly lengthy criminal record — another fact you can deny — for someone his age. Zimmerman was acquitted because there was no evidence of his guilt of the charge of second-degree murder, as the witnesses testified. As I said earlier, say something about the young blacks who are murdered every night by other young blacks. Oh, no that doesn’t fit your agenda, your “the black is always right” bullshit, does it. Everything is racism to white liberals like you. Over 50 million white people voted for a black man for president of the United States — twice. Most did so out their “White Guilt” but vote for Obama they did. Take you everything is racism, anti-gun, fact-denying liberal bullshit somewhere else, Janice. We are all tired of your pathetic attempts to re-try Zimmerman and your miserable outlook to everything.

          18. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            You got me mixed up with someone else. I am in no way a liberal and I have always been on the side of Zimmerman. You can apologize later.

          19. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            I think Ed reached that fed-up crazy point and is just ready to kill everyone no matter whose side they are on…

          20. edjweaver says

            I just read your “I am in no way a liberal …” post and I hereby apologize.

          21. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            Thank you. It was a total shock for someone to call me a liberal…in fact, a first. Anyone who knows me would tell you that I am 180 degrees from a liberal.

          22. Janice says

            Your prejudice and ignorance of what commonly would occur are indeed glaring.

            Zimmerman is no officer. Martin was justified to feel threatened. His experience as a member of the Black race alarmed him that something unsavory was afoot against him. I am not alleging anything, but reconstructing the most viable scenario which Zimmerman did not report for obvious reasons. At least Zimmerman could have initiated a friendly and exploratory chat with Martin upon seeing him, which apparently did not occur.

          23. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

            What you don’t know, or want to know, or realize, is that thugs do not have friendly chats with strangers. Thugs act first and ask questions later. There is little doubt that Zimmerman would be the dead one if Martin (who looked like Obama’s son, if he had one) had the opportunity to kill him.

          24. Robert says

            Usually, the oppressors would be the Police to the Black race. Just admit it. Everyone “alarms” blacks IN YOUR VIEW. Funny though, blacks kill more blacks….how can that be??? I really am not expecting a logical reply from you though.

          25. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Yeah…Zimmerman should have let that tripping drug zombie kid finish breaking into that 87 year old legless man’s house, rob him, kill him, whatever right? Then Zimmerman should’ve given Martin a stern talking to on his way out?

          26. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Your statements are so remarkably out of context and chronological order that it is utterly staggering.

          27. Tired... says

            Michael, I appreciate your response. I have no problem with self-defense, including stand your ground laws, but I am not sure that I would draw the same conclusion from that passage.

          28. Michael Penson says

            What else would the followers of Christ do with a sword. Remember the ear cutting………………there wasn’t any butter to put on your bread. Pray about and seek the answer from our Hebrew God.

          29. Tired... says

            The servant’s ear is an extension of the previous passage, as the disciples asked whether this was the time to use the swords. What happened immediately following the servant’s ear being cut off? Keep in mind that I believe in lethal self-defense when necessary, but I am arguing for more circumspection.

            Prior to carrying, I asked myself a question: Why am I doing this? Although others will feel differently about what I am about to say, and certainly have the right to do so, I could not carry if the only reason I was doing so was out of fear. By that I mean that personally I was not comfortable if the only reason was that I was afraid of everything and everyone around me…if my goal was only to protect myself at all costs. It was only when I began to view a gun as a tool that may allow me to intervene to save my life or the lives of others by either its presence or discretionary non-presence (concealed-not shown) that I realized that I had the maturity necessary to make wise decisions in stressful situations because my attitude was no longer aggressive or fear driven.

          30. Michael Penson says

            It is more than a tool. In our DNA is a response to eminent danger, the “Fight or Flight” response. Only the in the most life threatening, a fear of death, when the moment one decides there is no choose, when you hear the warning from your brain, ” you are going to die”, violence of action will be required.

          31. Tired... says

            As I said, some will disagree, which is fine.

      2. elkhunt says

        VENGEANCE IS ZIMMERMAN’S

        1. maddog0311 says

          Travon lead a short but unhappy life, to bad so sad. Next time maybe he’ll know better to start fights with an armed man!

          1. jetmagnet says

            So if you start a fight with me, i can blow your fucking head off?

          2. Robert says

            Possibly

        2. jetmagnet says

          Zimmerman ran after the the kid and shot him. I don’t see vengence, may you rot in hell!

          1. Robert says

            Better revisit the FACTS of the case. Sadly, you have taken the Thug Side. Trayvon had “lost” Zimmerman, but decided he wanted to teach WHITEY a lesson.As Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle, Martin came out of the dark, smiled, then sucker punched Zimmerman. Except for the “smile( I added that) it is all FACT in court transcripts.

      3. JoJo Gunn says

        That you responded at all, lumps you in the same boat then right? Because vengeance is His… So then by responding at all, you’ve taken it upon yourself? See.. We ALL fall short.

      4. GaryE says

        sramsey, for once I wish ignorant people like you would read the Bible. God gave us the right and the responsibility to defend ourselves on this side of the fence. Once we are on the other side yes then vengeance is his.

      5. joe says

        I thought that post was the funniest thing I have seen in a while and I am not worried about god I will just eat a whole bag of holy crackers before I die and he will have to let me in.

      6. Janice says

        Who knows, Zimmerman had a vision of Jesus who bade him to get rid of the gun.

    3. jetmagnet says

      Your a sick bastard, probably a satan worshiper. Your going to hell.

      1. Jimmy Quick says

        Hey clown. I guess they are spraying down your padded cell, I mean bedroom right now so you got to get in your computer time?

        1. jetmagnet says

          Well what have we here? Another asshole with shit for brains!

      2. Michael Dennewitz says

        Hey velcro head, guess we can tell you’re no preacher, just from what you have the balls to print.. Hey, you’re going to be late for your welfare appointment. Git on outta here!!

    4. Tired... says

      This is wrong and makes those of us who support the second amendment look bad. I think that neither Zimmerman nor Trayvon were innocent in the events of that day and it is a shame for both that it ended the way that it did. Mike Brown made a series of bad choices and faced the consequences of those choices, but we should neither celebrate nor make light of these situations.

      1. Bob says

        it’s his personal property. He was the one who was attacked, So WHY all the PC.
        Because bar rock politicized it that’s why!!

        1. bb says

          I lived in two places where thugs roamed and drugs were sold. The cops were in on it. One cop even quit and opened an ice cream parlor near the drug distributors. He claimed his grandmother died and left him some money. Yeah right, it cost him at least $700,000.00 to buy the land, build a new facility and equip it. “Granny my ass.
          I tried to fight the drug dealers. The cops locked me up.
          Semper Fi George and Good Night Chesty Puller Where Ever You Are!

          1. David C. Telliho says

            I ran the drug dealers out of our small town. They conducted their affairs in a church yd. after dark, mostly. It is located across a road from our large back yd. . The Church owns a timber on 3 sides of their building. At night, I would walk down our rd.,enter the timber &come upon them from behind. I carried a S&W 45LC on my hip&my12ga.Rem.870,&my 1911 45acp in my shoulder rig. All loaded. It took a few times inviting them to go elsewhere,but go they did&haven`t been back for several yrs. They never knew where I came from,or who I was. I encouraged them to realize I was serious. Also,I was polite,but firm.If they complained to police,I never knew&was never bothered by them.

          2. Shock@awe says

            What the fuck, what movie where you in, you are not running any serious drug dealers out of town, they must been wanna-bes, why don’t you go and help other neighborhoods with there problems

          3. David C. Telliho says

            I have a family,kids,grandkids,and 3 great grandkids. I don`t need any help,now, and didn`t need any then. The individuals were so shocked, they accepted my(as I stated)polite suggestion to leave and not come back. Not knowing where I lived or came from, added to their bewilderment. I forgot to add, I sometimes took our family german shepherd along. I don`t think the dog impressed them so much as the unmistakable sound of a ‘870’ pump cycling a round in to it`s chamber. It don`t matter what you think of me,I relate what I`ve done in hopes of encouraging other men to resist evil. I applaud those who do.

          4. Shock@awe says

            If this is true I do applaud you. Unfortunately in most states to carry that amount of firearms at one time is illegal beyond your domicile. So I say to you more power. Stay legal and stay safe.

          5. David C. Telliho says

            We live at the edge of a rural community. We had called the Sheriff office several times over a couple years. It seemed as tho those people knew the law was on the way,they always left before the Deputies showed up. The Sheriff of the county S. of us, was dirty. I helped put one away in Miss. and another in Ia.. But those are other true stories. I didn`t get serious with the idiots across from us until my kids & grandkids found needles in the church yard. I`m not aware of any restrictions on number of firearms one might carry at one time in Ia. When I hunt, I carry 3 handguns, sometimes a 4th., 4 knives and my longgun. The 45acp. in shoulder rig.22 derringer in shirtpocket,Walther ppks 380 inside pant holster,and sometimes 22 cal. 9 shot H&R revolver on a belt holster. Plus the longgun. Either the 870, or 22 rifle. Depending on the hunting season. Knives ; 2 hunting knives,1 on belt,1 in fanny pack,gerber,and pocket knife. I decided , however, the next time I have bullets hit a tree beside me, I will shoot back. Insofar as other areas are concerned, I have been known to stalk nasty folks. I like to know who they are and where they live.

          6. mossbergman says

            where did you come up with that law? U from Ca or NJ?

          7. Bob Pante says

            You don’t let anyone know hoe well you are armed.

          8. Blessed_Miarah says

            Yep, don’t want none them hos knowing what your packing! LOL!

          9. Blessed_Miarah says

            How do you know anything about this man?

          10. Shock@awe says

            I never claimed to know anything about this man. I simply stated that where I’m from it’s a lot more complicated than that. There are laws that won’t allow you to legally carry the firepower he was armed with all at one time. An individual wouldn’t be able to do anything alone because the gangs are rooted in the city. They’re born and raised there with family, friends and neighborhood ties. The psychology is different. It’s like prohibition in the 1920s the government wanted it but most people accept alcohol as a necessary but undesirable business. As I stated to David, I applaud you for your efforts and stay safe.

          11. Blessed_Miarah says

            Sorry, I later read through more of your comments but got busy in between. I misunderstood. Thank you for you mature and explanatory response though. It is nice to see folks that can debate or even argue a situation without nastiness.

            Are you in Illinois or Washington? Sorry to hear that. I am firm believer in in standing one’s ground and not giving into the cycle of victimhood. Being a black woman makes me ultra-sensitive to that aspect of our black American social state. I believe that the cycle of victimhood ends with the realization that you have the power to change all things. Having the power to stop those that would harm you is the power granted by the 2nd amendment in my eyes. Therefore, I believe it is a cornerstone of a successful nation and people.

            I was raised with other black people telling me that I would always be second to some white person and always have my dreams and opportunities stolen. I refused to believe that and decided to actively change my directions. I feel that all these things tie together in life. Equality can only be achieved through the personal empowerment of feeling truly equal. The most equal I have ever felt in my life was at an NRA Shooting meet-up. Met some of the nicest people in my life.

            I think everyone should carry. It’d make the dishonest rethink their life choices.

          12. Rachelle McKinney says

            “my room mate Mary Is getting paid on the internet 98$/hr”…..!jk308etwo days ago grey MacLaren P1 I bought after earning 18,512 Dollars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k Dollars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over. hourly 87 Dollars…Learn. More right Here !jk308e:➽:➽:➽➽➽➽ http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsCrucialGetPay-Hour$98…. .✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸::::::!jk308e…….

          13. David C. Telliho says

            Shove your adds where the sun never shines

          14. Michael Dennewitz says

            Your roommate Mary wasn’t even a good lay! Tell her I want my 75 cents back!!!

          15. Laurence Almand says

            David – Good for you! I admire your courage. I suppose Obama and Holder would try to have you prosecuted for using your firearms. I wish you had shot a few of those street scum – then they would be gone permanently, instead of taking their corrupt business elsewhere.

          16. David C. Telliho says

            Thank you,Sir. The only reason for being armed was I figured the dealers were. Seems like whenever there`s a bust, they always have guns. I used every bit of wood craft I possess when I approached. It was always at night&I know those woods&the trails. I try real hard not to take chances. It was funny, They`d be in a small group of 2-3 a few times more. Then they`d realize there was one more person. I always invited them to church,too. One guy got a bit smart about it. But I had the advantage. Good grief,I caught one guy doin his girlfriend on top of a grave one night,in the cemetery behind the church. Then the ladies who cleaned the church found a used condom behind the pulpit. Some folks have no class or respect. I never ever threatened anyone with harm. 1 nite, I let air escape from a L. front tire&the R. rear tire. on their car. My goodness, what a fuss when they discovered that second tire after a trip somewhere for an air pig. I`d like to have seen their faces when they saw what I`d written on the side. ” Don`t come back” .

          17. Blessed_Miarah says

            Good for you David! Nice to see some folks still care about their neighborhoods. I never leave home without my Kimber Compact Stainless II 1911 .45 ACP. It is my most important evening accessory! Every evening!

          18. David C. Telliho says

            I will carry a 1911 now & then. I`m seriously considering carrying a .38 S&W revolver instead. I know it`s downsizing, but even the lowly 22 is deadly, when proper bullet placement is applied. What do you notice when there`s a shooting. I see police tape and little yellow plastic markers everywhere a shell case was found. Why ? Fingerprints. Some of the bad guys are getting smarter&carrying them. When I travel, I carry the 38. It`s more concealable,lighter. There is a web site where the guys show different caliber results in ballistic gel. My Walther PPKS in .380 cal. ,penetrates just as deep as a .45acp. Tissue damage and ft. # of shock are greater,of course with the 45. I carry the Walther 24/7. Again,bullet placement is everything. A buddy tells me,”it`s better than a pocket full of rocks”. I used to carry a 22 revolver. He asked why. I said because I can hit where I want,because I know where it shoots. None will believe me,but I hunt small game with it&can take a running rabbit,or a squirrel with out fifty kazillion shots. Also, I have to add, there is always someone better. A better shot,faster,better mechanic,etc. Thank you for your kind words&watch yer top knot. The Kimber is a nice high quality weapon.

          19. Laurence Almand says

            Yes, police corruption is and always has been a huge problem for society. Look at all the money the cops made during Prohibition!
            Police corruption is yet another reason why citizens should own firearms and be able to protect themselves – the cops won’t do it.
            Read DIAL 911 AND DIE for an analysis of why police won’t protect citizens.

          20. Bob Pante says

            You got that right. In Little Egg Harbor I had a boat stored in a marina that was shut down for code violations. I caught burglars taking my stuff and called 911. Worst mistake I ever made.

          21. Blessed_Miarah says

            Little Egg Harbor, you from Jersey?

          22. Bob Pante says

            Originally. Florida now. I worked only blocks from where the Martin/Zimmerman s#%t went down. Sanford Police Department can’t be too short handed. I went through radar traps everyday on my way to work.

          23. Blessed_Miarah says

            Well, realistically, the police are present for law enforcement. They are an arm of the state. It is most likely that if you call the police they will be arriving after whatever criminal act you are reporting. If you are still alive enough to report the crime, they will investigate and if they find significant evidence to arrest and convict the felon then they’ve done their job. You cannot rely on them being there in time to save you in a crisis though. The idea of expecting police to save you in dire circumstances isn’t the most cogent method of survival.

          24. Laurence Almand says

            Amen! Read the excellent book DIAL 911 AND DIE for an analysis of why you cannot depend upon the police for protection.

        2. Tired... says

          Does anyone bother to read? My response was directed toward elkhunt, not the article; your comment has nothing to do with what I said.

        3. ward says

          The” kid was his,” illegal or not bo ignorantly made the asinine statement and proved his racist actions of prejudice that created the real problems of racism … !

      2. Paul Bogart says

        Y his whole thing is a bunch of crap! If it had been two white men or two black men there wouldn’t have been a problem. Or if dead one was white it would be ok..

        1. disqus_htVNWSBEmM says

          Exactly right!

        2. Laurence Almand says

          You are correct. Many Whites are murdered by Blacks every year, yet nothing is said by the Socialist media.

          1. Blessed_Miarah says

            Sadly, many whites are murdered by blacks, many blacks are murdered by blacks, many whites are murdered by whites, but none of those issues carry the essence of media and political taboo that “white on black” crime carries. It is because they can angle it for the perpetuated endless victimhood of our people.

            Well, I want to say for myself, I am no victim! No racist system ever oppressed me. Yeah, I bumped into a few ignorant people here and there in life. When I was a kid I slapped the bejeezus out of them and when I got older I overcame them with wit and whimsy.

            I have been pulled over more times than a few in life and never been shot. I’ve gone to court and had decent judges give me breaks and a not so decent judge give me a hard time. One time I had a judge that hit me pretty hard but I lost my cool so it was my fault.

            However, I had more opportunities than many of my friends, and I had many white friends. I took advantage of those opportunities and joined the Kappa Alpha Theta and I graduated Magna Cum Laude from Princeton University in 2010. I have Ph.D.s in both Engineering and Biomedical Science.

            I am proud and happy to be an American where I know I am free to be myself and fight in the pursuit of happiness. Thank God I am not from Africa where to this day, i may have been starving or a slave.

            My people need to stop allowing these criminals to convince them that they are helpless victims and empower this once proud and industrious people to reclaim their heritage and push forward knowing they can be more.

        3. Blessed_Miarah says

          Like the other fella said in the comments. “If a red haired Irish white man shot Zimmerman then Zimmerman would’ve been black.” It is all in how they want to spin things and play semantics games.

      3. joe says

        no it is NOT wrong it is his gun he can do what he wants with it and that rat crook deserved exactly what he got period. I am more for the 2nd than anyone so speak for yourself the second that rat punk turned violent he was no longer a human being he became a target period

        1. Tired... says

          Joe, I wasn’t talking about Zimmerman.

          1. Cheryl Liu says

            “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet 98$/hr”…..!nt402etwo days ago grey MacLaren P1 I bought after earning 18,512 Dollars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k Dollars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over. hourly 87 Dollars…Learn. More right Here !nt402e:➽:➽:➽➽➽➽ http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsStockGetPay-Hour$98…. .✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸✸::::::!nt402e….,….

          2. joe says

            Nope he chose violence he becomes a target NOTHING more ,like shooting a rat in the dump

          3. Tired... says

            Then we vigorously disagree.

          4. joe says

            You are promoting violence if you think it was OK for that criminal rat to attack the guy with no consequences. He would have killed Zimmerman had he not been stopped and who knows how many others would have been at risk if he was so willing to smash a guys head against a concrete sidewalk. He needed to be taken out he deserved to be taken out he was garbage plain and simple. Violent scum like that are to be treated like a plague wipe them out.

          5. Tired... says

            It is clear that you do not understand my point. I have no problem with self-defense; I just think that we shouldn’t celebrate taking the life of another human being, even when taking that life was necessary. Dehumanizing people brings us one step closer to the behavior of communists and fascists.

          6. Blessed_Miarah says

            The part that disgusts me most, is in the Sanford PD report, the detectives stated that there were 3 onlookers from the onset of the incident and 5 more that approached just before or during the struggle. That’s 8 people. There were others but their stories didn’t sync up with the rest so they were dismissed. When Zimmerman called for help, like we hear on the witnesses 911 call recordings, there were 8 people standing there watching, 7 of which had called 911 throughout the scenario! He yelled for help 3 times in about a 29 second window of time as he was being beaten on the ground. The fight between Martin and Zimmerman ran from 7:15:43 to 7:16:55 that is 1 minute and 12 seconds of whooping and 29 seconds of yelling for help while being ground whooped. In 1:12 none of these 8 cowards tried to stop this? No one thought, “Wow, home boy is being beasted bad. Let me stop young blood from killing this fool.” Not one? I mean, c’mon, what kind of limp noodle society are we becoming?

            If anyone is guilty of Trayvon’s death, aside from Trayvon’s own foolishness, it is the cowards that stood idle while this kid beat the bejeezus out of Zimmerman. If the community wants to be angry, be angry with the cowards that do nothing, not the man that was just saving himself when he was out of options.

            After his third yell for help, there was a 5 second pause, then the pop that ended it.

            I’m sorry this story just makes me sick! There are a multitude of real cases out there where black people are wrongfully killed by cops and stuff and these stories, that everyone screams so loudly about, are pure poppycock!

          7. Janice says

            The witnesses did not intervene, because Zimmerman had a gun in his hand. They wanted to avoid getting shot by accident from his gun. He had his gun in his hand all the time, already before the attack. That is exactly why, Martin jumped him. There is no way for Zimmerman under attack to pull a gun, uncock it and then shoot, while getting hit and on the ground.

          8. Laurence Almand says

            If people want to be treated like decent human beings, they can behave like decent human beings instead of vicious street punks who attack and harm innocent people!

          9. Tired... says

            I guess that I am unfamiliar with the “decent human being” clause in the constitution. While we may despise what someone does, we should still treat all human beings like human beings. In no way am I justifying Trayvon’s behavior or suggesting that Zimmerman shouldn’t have defended himself, but I refuse to celebrate Trayvon’s death.

          10. Blessed_Miarah says

            I understand what you mean. Celebrating the death of a confused, messed up boy is morally wrong. Yet, why is it viewed poorly that some people feel relieved that Zimmerman lived and was not convicted of murder? Especially when it was clear he did not commit murder?

            Of course I am speaking rhetorically. I think the fuss over this subject is far outdated and overdone. In the meantime, Shell oil spilled 90,000 gallons of crude oil into the Gulf and terrorists possibly took down another civilian airplane over the Mediterranean. See how distracting these irrational articles are?

          11. Blessed_Miarah says

            Amen!

          12. Bob Pante says

            Trayvon was a THUG. While they dragged George through the mud. Most of Trayvons history was suppressed, he was bad news.

          13. Tired... says

            We agree on that point…I’m not disputing that in the least.

          14. Blessed_Miarah says

            It is a shame what happened to Zimmerman and his family through all this.

            No matter what his personal beliefs of black people may or may not be. Beliefs we will never know the truth about.

            Trayvon stopped being a little angel when he was in those photos they showed (4 years before the incident). You have to be in complete denial to ignore the police records.

          15. Blessed_Miarah says

            He was always a man – but when you choose to become a bad man and end up dead, no one will care. Trayvon never should have attacked that man. If he did not, then he would still be here, well in theory at least. I have no sadness for stupid people that die doing dumb things.

          16. Janice says

            At the time of the confrontation, it was completely unknown for Zimmerman who Martin was. Martin was a thug, no question about it. The law will catch up on him soon enough. That is why the dispatcher bade Zimmerman not to continue to pursue Martin. But his blind ego chose to play hero and seek confrontation. He could do this, because he had a tool of power in his hand and the FLA law “stand your ground” behind him.

        2. denniscerasoli says

          One on one is what it was,apparently Zimmerman approached Trayvon when he probably should have let Trayvon just go about his business as he would have if it were me,i am white of course.I can understand the anger of Trayvon walking and minding his own business and this isn’t about being pro black or pro white,if i am walking into an area that where i don’t live and a person approaches me and asks what i am doing here it will probably piss me off,let alone being black and this isn’t even about the 2nd amendment,a person like Zimmerman should never have a gun because if it were not Florida with the stand your ground idiot law he would probably be in jail for manslaughter.If you are a neighborhood watchman and you are going to stick your nose into another persons affairs at least fight him as a man or don’t say anything at all.You don’t shoot a person because you are losing a fistfight,remember Trayvon didn’t have a weapon,Zimmerman was a irresponsible person with a hand gun to be a neighborhood watchman.Zimmerman got scared and fired his weapon and i can’t respect that but i do except the jjuries verdict.

          1. Mark Lahti says

            I’m sure you meant to say that you accept the juries verdict. Whatever. The remainder of your post is truly ignorant. You need to go back and read the real transcripts of the what actually took place that day. Zimmerman had a job to do as a neighborhood watch patrol person. Martin not only did not belong in that neighborhood at that time of night but was also acting suspiciously. It was his job to question someone in that neighborhood at that time of night. How the confrontation went down is not important to the outcome. Zimmerman was on his back with Martin bashing his head into the concrete sidewalk. If I was in fear of losing my life or being seriously injured I would have shot him also. I’m not going to celebrate Martins death. But at the same time I will condemn anyone who thinks Martin was some sort of martyr or saint. The black community that makes cases like this and the Furgeson riots a just cause for the cries of racism and then justifies riots and rebellion are out of their minds. This is again a constant reminder that they will never accept responsibility for their plight or their life situations. They will always continue to blame others and twist the facts to support irrational and illegal behavior. It is also people such as yourself that give them more support to continue their insanity. Grow up, learn something about what you are trying to support before making a total fool of yourself.

          2. denniscerasoli says

            After i made my comment i checked Wickabee for the facts and they were actually both out of line.Fact..Trayvon was staying there with his father and was not a stranger to the community.When Zimmerman called the police the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Trayvon and Zim said Yea,in turn the dispatcher told Zim that we don’t need you to do that and Zim said ok,10 minutes later Trayvon was dead,during the investigation Zimmerman said that his attire that is Trayvons are what made him suspicious,Zimmerman obviously didn’t pay attention to the dispatcher,he approached Trayvon and a fight ensued with the kid on top hitting Zimmerman with bruises to prove it.I never doubted that.The neighborhood that they were in and where Trayvon was staying was very mixed,i thought it was an all white neighborhood but it was mixed with Hispanics,whites,blacks,and Asians and there were reports of some breakin’s but Trayvon was going to the store.Zimmerman was tried for 1st degree murder which i knew couldn’t be proven and i knew he would walk,but my point is if Zim has listened to the dispatcher there would have been no death or trial.You can check out the entire story,the investigation,the police,everything.

          3. Robert says

            You are correct that Trayvon was “staying there”. But he was there because his Daddy was there visiting his GIRLFRIEND who lived there. The previous HOMESTEAD was Trayvon was living with his Mommy, and was out running with a gang in Miami, and had been busted in school with drugs, burglary tools, and women’s jewelry while at school which resulted in suspension. Mommy got fed up with the thuggery behavior (did you see the Trayvon fights, and guns he posted??) And stated she just couldn’t control him, which is when she shipped him to the baby’s Daddy. It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, but Daddy was not a resident there. He was just out on a date that fateful evening. Trayvon had went with Daddy to stay at her home just that evening. With his ” hoodie” up covering his head, Zimmerman couldn’t tell what color he was, just that he was acting suspicious looking into people’s Windows, which is what he told the police dispatch. Dispatch asked where he was at. Zimmerman said he wasn’t sure, so he had already gotten out of his vehicle and was looking for the nearest road sign. At that time he had lost sight of Martin. He reported the location that he was at, and was returning to his vehicle( just as the dispatcher had said, ” no, I don’t need you to follow him” or something to that effect) which is when Martin had circled back, and stepped out of the shadow of darkness, stated “you got an F ING problem” or “what’s your F ING problem” and as Zimmerman turned toward the voice, he got sucker punched, causing him to fall, at which time Martin opening a can of whoop ass ( as he had demonstrated as a game he liked to play in badass Miami on the streets- AKA Mr.ToughAss). While Zimmerman was screaming out, and Martin was a banging away, Zimmerman reached into his jacket pocket, and busted a cap into him. The media tried to say that Trayvon was on the ground hollering out, begging Zimmerman to spare his life, while Zimmerman stood there and blasted him execution style. That was just like the same as Mikey Brown putting his hands in the air, and was running away, while officer Wilson chased him down and shot him in cold blood, in the back. Hands up don’t shoot was a total fabrication too. BOTH incidents were self defense by the victims against the criminal THUGS.

          4. denniscerasoli says

            I got most of my info from Wikebee according to them Zimmermen was in his vehicle when the dispathcer told him we don’t need yo to do that and they also said that he was living with his father who was living with his girl friend.The only thing they mentioned about trayvon was that an autopsy show a little bone in his blood.If it went down the way you say it puts an entirely different light on it.I knew Trayvon was no angel and i know the media kept putting out photos when he was a sweet little 13 year old,lol.I don’t give a hoot about BLM and the rest of the BS they throw at us trying to make us feel guilty for something we didn’t do,i was only talking about this particular incident and if Zim had to shoot him,but florida law said he was in the right and i agree with the not guilty verdict for murder,and that is probably why they charged him with murder and nothing else because they knew he would walk.

          5. Robert says

            Never heard of that site, but they could be correct. Most of my info was from the news media and our Conservative blog sites where the info is picked apart. I wasn’t aware of daddy was homeless and was actually living a girlfriends home. Guess that could be true also. But regardless, Trayvon wasn’t a boy scout, and was a thug out looking to steal anything he could. Instead of doing what was morally correct and earning his dope money!. Most of my comments here were aimed at Janice. OfcShane did all the hard work, looking up the public records and actual court transcripts. I would trust his timelines and verbiage. Have a great one there!

          6. denniscerasoli says

            Just type in Zimmerman and Trayvon and it will give you several sites but grab Wickabees,they give you information on any subject and it gives a good detailed description of the entire investigation almost like a manuscript.

          7. joe says

            Nothing matters except one thing the rat attacked he resorted to violence when it was not needed. He was NOT defending himself or others so to resort to violence was all that was needed for him to be shot Zimmerman was justified and he did society a favor he also very likely saved someone else from being killed by that violent piece of chit.

          8. mossbergman says

            “if it were not Florida with the stand your ground idiot law he would probably be in jail for manslaughter” ~~~WTH ? the stand your ground law never entered into it. not even in court.

          9. denniscerasoli says

            It didn’t need to be mentioned in court but the media was all over it.

          10. Robert says

            Ever watch video clips of “polar bear hunting”? Not the animal polar bears. It is the game that some play where usually, a group of Street THUGS go thump a white person that is unaware and they try to knock the white person out in one hit? Some actually die, some depend time in an ICU, and some victims actual avoid the assault and shoot the thug. It sucks to pick on folks just for fun. They should learn some manners and a saying such as TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED.

          11. Janice says

            Obviously you haven’t learned the lesson from this insane video game. It is a lesson of the viscious circle emanating from the firearm culture. Yours is compounded by the racism, the blind hatred against the black race.

          12. Robert says

            *Hello* This has nothing to do with a video game. You are so blind due to your white guilt. I am far from being a “racist ” in the sense of hating black people. For me, and I don’t expect you to understand, as for ME it is about CHARACTER. And the way you throw around the word RACIST at everyone who doesn’t see things as you believe they should be MAKES YOU A RACIST just toward white people.
            But of course I am the racist…… You live in a delusional world. Tell someone who thinks like you and cares. No one here is that person.

          13. joe says

            ha ha ha ha ha wow you are a dimwit video game wow you dingbat

          14. Betterbob says

            Learn the difference between fantasy (video game) and real life. Drop the games and straighten your head and life out.

          15. Robert says

            Maybe you didn’t understand what I said either. The knock out game isn’t a video game. Thugs record it sometimes and put their recordings on you tube. In “real life” people die as a result of the blacks “game” that they call polar bear hunting or more commonly called “The Knock Out Game”. On occasion, the thug messes with an gun toting victim and get what they deserve. But Janice thinks they are JUSTIFIED as they have been subjected to white people’s racism. Just ask her.
            P.S.: I don’t play any video games. I got too much reloading to accomplish!

          16. Betterbob says

            Janice is very much correct. They have been subjected to white peoples racism, for many years and what is more to the point for many generations. The civil rights act of 1965 did institute civil rights for everyone but you cannot legislate out racism. For generations white people have been the dominant race and have kept black people pinned down. We did away with slavery and introduced Jim Crow. We had civil rights but the subtleties of racism were, and to a certain extent, are still there. White people learned their skills and confidence through many generations of being on top . However, after many generations of being suppressed we expect Black people to conform to our world in one or two generations. Try helping in the situation and have some understanding of where everyone is. Help instead of criticizing. The potential for this country to grow if we work with each other and help those who are trying to make up for generations of abuse is phenomenal. Criticizing and blaming will never make this country great.

          17. Robert says

            I see you are another Liberal. Since you seem little more educated than she, I will be more direct and say, the black “race” prior to the 60’s could use that EXCUSE. But, in today’s world, they allow themselves to be perpetual victims by the acceptance that they will always be the victim, the underclass, the Democrat following sheep. But, it is funny ( not ha ha funny ) that almost all successful blacks are Republicans. Why? Because the Democrat mantra, or shall I say, their platform is aimed at keeping them dumbed down, not held to be accountable for their actions, less of a standard for any and all of society requirements of being an equal. They have been afforded the same opportunities as any other American. Keeping the title of “African”-American keeps them firmly planted in victimhood. Vote DEMOCRAT and you need not get an education, get a job, the government will give you everything you need to survive. Ben Carson will open your eyes. But, as a Liberal, and allowing the false narrative that blacks should vote to stay in the Democrat party so the welfare is the incentive to remain unchallenged in striving to accept ones own responsibility,to provide for themselves, to marry someone, then have children, and support them AND stay together and actually raise those children to be productive adults, respectful to authority, is very low in priority. Not because of me and my criticisms.
            Like many folks in the Democrat party, I too would have casted my vote for a black candidate. Herman Cain was my choice, but the Dems were threatened by a successful black who was a Republican. But, he was destroyed by them because he espoused black response a ability, which would be the death of the Liberal power play. This presidential season, Dr. Ben Carson was my first choice also. You see, they are both successful in life, with no thanks to the party of suppression toward blacks.
            You give a vow of allegiance to those that give the oppression you rail against. But it ain’t me.

          18. Betterbob says

            What a load of garbage. Let’s blame the Democrats for everything and show how the Republicans are doing nothing but good.
            First, you ignore history. It took many generations for white people to have the skill sets that they pass on to their offspring. They have had many generations of being on top and not being part of an oppressed class as were the African Americans with slavery and then Jim Crow. Yet you expect a whole race to acquire the skills it took your family generations to acquire, including sociological and psychological expectations, in just two generations.
            As for your statement quote “almost all successful blacks are Republicans.” I take full objection to that. Show me where you get your data from to back that assertion or is it just conjecture on your part. I am associated with institutions which have hundreds of very successful African Americans, many probably more successful than you, and I doubt 1% are republican. How do I know? Because I interface with them everyday.
            I see daily African Americans with none of the advantages you have fight and struggle to become successful everyday. You need to think honestly about the history of the two races and do a true comparison. You are expecting people to do in a day something you took a year to learn.

          19. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            I’m Scot-Irish and German, about as white as “perceived white,” can be… My dad was a drunken abusive crackhead junkie that popped out many children with several women. What skill set did he give me that led to my success? Your toxic prejudicial nonsense is problematic at best.

            Slavery was abolished in 1863. Unless you know blacks that seriously are over 153 year old then okay, they were victims effected by slavery. Slavery was a horrible thing, but the guilt inflation of the issue is bullsh*t! “Boo hoo, my great great great grandpa was the son of a slave woman – give me money, lots of it, that will fix the issue. Oh, and I should never have to pay any taxes. Oh, and free land, yeah lots of it.”

            TWO GENERATIONS!? Yeah them Jim Crow laws were tough in 1976!

            Jim Crow laws ended 62 years ago in 1954, but their strong point was between 1890 and 1925 (respectively between 126 to 91 years ago) . Some of the older African Americans in our nation (those about 67 and older) may have experienced some of the remaining “Jim Crow” laws experience and retained vague memories… Some in the 70+ bracket may have experiences and well-formed memories (depending on how much memory they have left). However, I would go as far as to surmise that 99% of BLM movement members and others of their ilk NEVER ONCE experienced Jim Crow laws or their oppression and NONE slavery… Although some may know someone that experienced Jim Crow laws, no one knows ANYONE that has experienced American slavery…

            I am all for reparations – $25,000 and an apology letter to all African Americans that resided in the US before 1954 that are 67 years old and older. To hell with the rest of the crybabies! I have no sympathy for self-pity.

            You claim on one hand that blacks are unable to succeed due to lack of generational experience, which is in itself bullsh*t but I’m humoring your dialogue here, yet on the other hand you say that – you yourself know “HUNDREDS of VERY SUCCESSFUL African Americans,” and that you “interface with them EVERYDAY.” You even go as far as to mock Robert and state, “many probably MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU.”

            Yet we are supposed to feel sorry for these people you claim are universally unable to shake the stigma of their oppression and unable to advance in society due to the systemic racism they face. A circumstance that harms blacks while benefiting whites, yet many, even hundreds you personally know, are more successful than whites? How is that possible if this universal evil is in place to keep blacks below all whites?

            What kind of loopy conundrum of mush is your active logic here!?!?

            Your stated above paragraph just bought my ticket out of ever seeing the “racist system” for what I once saw it as. What a jagged pill to swallow.

          20. Betterbob says

            Well I read through your diatribe and I initially was going to address each point. However the whole context is so bizarre and so far off base it is not worth addressing. Nice try at trying to gloss over the problems, but it is people like you that are a major cause of the problem. Refusing to look past your own anger and prejudices.

          21. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            ROFL!!! Yeah, my anger and prejudices… What do you know of me other than I confessed to being white? Do you know my wife and children? My roles in society in and out of the work place? How many years have I devoted to the civil rights movement personally?

            I have no anger nor prejudices but I have an extreme low tolerance for idiocy.

            It is people like you that ARE the problem…

          22. Betterbob says

            I have read quite a few of your posts and I have seen some of the comments you leave. I have worked in the trenches of civil rights for years and seen many of your type. Yes I know you and I don’t like you. Try being part of the solution for a change instead of part of the problem. the rationalizations you gave would have been laughable if they were not so tragic.

          23. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            What are you even talking about now? Have you ever read any of my comments not on this thread? Or are you using prejudicial judgement from the nonsense being spewed on this post alone? If the latter is true you honestly know nothing of me. The fact that you don’t like me is a compliment coming from you.

          24. Betterbob says

            I can read as many of your posts as I like. They are all there to read. You did not know that?

          25. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Yes, of course I did… Thus, the reason I asked.

            I guess you do not like people that have donated over a thousand hours a year, and thousands of dollars of their own money to the impoverished and and disenfranchised. You must not like those that feed the homeless or offer free counselling services to the impoverished and imprisoned. Maybe it is all the volunteer hours I put in for the UN helping rebuild in Haiti or Sierra Leone. I guess you don’t like people that are intellectually honest with themselves and do not mask their contempt for things that are negatively impacting our world. I guess you do not like people that choose educated rationalizations over blindly following the political or media fed story of the day. I must suppose that you do not like people that will assert verifiable facts over emotionally driven nonsense. I’m also being led to believe that you do not like the process of scientific observation when performing one’s own investigation of a topic. I guess you don’t like the self-motivated individual that paves his own road in spite of the rocky path he was dealt.

            I would be led to also suppose that you don’t like white people that are married to black women with beautiful, highly-advanced children that are being raised in a good family environment.

            Am I close?

            Or… You simply don’t like white folks no matter what…

            I figure, by your own commentary and admission, it must be one or the other.

            [and to be quite honest, I don’t know what there is to dislike about me, I am very loved by my family, community, and coworkers in my daily life – I haven’t a single enemy]

          26. Betterbob says

            None of that is in your post so you must be assuming that I have some type of extra sensory perception, which I do not.

            Next you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Making assumptions. How come it is OK for you but not for me?

            As for your assumption about white people. I am a white man in my late 60’s with a Chinese wife. So you are 100% wrong. What I don’t like is bigots period. Race, ethnicity, color, national origin, sexual orientation and gender does not come into it.

          27. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            You stated, “I have worked in the trenches of civil rights for years and seen many of your type. Yes I know you and I don’t like you. Try being part of the solution for a change instead of part of the problem.”

            What am I assuming?

            Did you not say that you do not like me? If you do not like me and my types, then you must be asserting that you know all, or enough about me to not like me. I was just listing some of my stronger qualities and rhetorically stating them as something you must not like – BECAUSE YOU ALREADY ASSERTED YOU DO NOT LIKE ME OR MY TYPES. Ergo, your statements made on your own volition creates a logical conclusion that these are things you do not like. Am I being too profound here are you being willfully ignorant?

            I personally could never judge another human being so harshly off a paragraph or two, but hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I was just highlighting that you didn’t know me. I even asked you, have you read any of my other Disqus postings outside of this topic? You condescendingly responded “They are all there to read. You did not know that?” Therefore, by your own admission, I was led, by you, to believe that you had read some of my other posts on Disqus. You would have then seen these things stated, long before this conversation between us, without the need for ESP or any other special fantasy powers.

            All of this started over me pointing out the logical fallacy you stated (which is a bell rung daily these days) that African Americans are essentially in a poor social position because they do not have familial advantages that were passed down through the generations like whites have. I countered your statement with personal experience that many impoverished white families have little to no familial structure similar poor black families. It is not at all an issue of race but a symptom of being impoverished and living in a poverty stricken community. Poverty knows no race – it just is.

            Up until 11th grade I lived in a poor black neighborhood and my family was so poor that even the other poor kids made fun of me because I would wear the same clothes to school week and week out for 3 years before getting a new set of clothes. My pants would be riding halfway up my calves and kids called me Noah, saying I was waiting for the flood waters. I wasn’t joshed on by just the dozen or so privileged white kids but also by the impoverished black kids that weren’t much better off than my family. I also dealt with social stigma from my fathers reputation as being a local conman and swindler. I was lumped in with him by association, even though I was nothing like him. I had even taken up a job at a local farm from 13 to 17 years old trenching potatoes for $10/hr with all the illegal immigrants in the frozen New Jersey soil.

            In 11th grade I finally got angry. I had been an all A-B student all through school but my parents didn’t pay me any mind (to this day my mom is still surprised every time we talk at how poorly she knows me, her firstborn son). Finally, I gave up trying to impress my parents and started doing whatever felt good. My grades dropped, I was confronted by the vice-principal in the mall (who bragged about his Naval golden gloves) and I beat the tar out of him. Which sent me to night school for my senior year and got me kicked out of varsity football and JROTC. On New Year’s I came home and mom and dad were fighting again. I walked in just in time to watch my dad hit my mother with a blue-glass coffee table and knock my little brother out (who was 10 at the time). I had enough and beat my father until the state troopers pulled me off of him. He didn’t physically abuse anyone for 7 years after that, then he did one last time and my little brother knocked out half his teeth with an aluminum baseball bat (that I bought him when he was in tee-ball).

            Anyway, dad was busy prosecuting me on the day of my graduation instead of watching his son graduate and a warrant was put out for my arrest. Lee, the farmer I had worked for, bailed me out and let me work off my bail. After I got the charges thrown out later I decided I was leaving New Jersey. I sold my 1978 Buick Regal (with a 455 Pontiac in her), all my baseball cards, comic book memorabilia, and video game collection and relocated to Miami Florida. I was quickly broke and became homeless. I spent 15 months on the streets when I finally found a job as a carpenter/masonry helper with a large construction company. Within a month a had my own 2 bedroom condo. Shortly after I got a car and built a small comfortable life.

            Then I decided to join the US Marine Corps. My recruiting sergeant told me that I had the highest ASVAB score he ever seen (299/300 questions correct – the irony was, and I pointed this out, the one I had “wrong,” had no correct answer available so I guessed). I after reading over many of the options I wanted to be a CBRN Defense Specialist and went for it.

            After I returned home I witnessed a large number of veterans becoming a rapidly disenfranchised group of people. After one of my old friends committed suicide due to PSTD, I became involved with that. I ended up going to seminary at Asbury and Western theological seminaries, and then tested in and picked up additional credits through a continuing education course opportunity offered through Princeton University where I studied Human Psychology. Afterward I got into a ton of outreach programs for the poor, homeless, troubled teens, prisoners, vets coping with PTSD, and a slew of other philanthropic endeavors. At that time I was working as a state trooper but after a few close calls my wife and son wanted me to step back. Soon after I befriended the owner of a security company working on DHS/FEMA/UN contracts and grabbed some licenses and nabbed some subcontracting work. I’m now on my eight year with that and in two weeks I will be in the highest operations position one can achieve in the agency.

            My point is – I did that. I had no help, hell, I honestly felt unloved. Jesus, I’ll go as far as to confess that I hoped I would die valiantly in the war. It was the reason I considered the military in the first place. I didn’t want to be here alone anymore (back then). Dying with a group of brothers seemed like the closest thing I could find to a romanticized death with some meaning and glory. Now I realize I had a better purpose. Eventually, I became somewhat successful. I’m certainly no Rockefeller but I own my own little home and my family (wife and kids) do not know hardship or neediness. Sure I work 70+ hours a week and was doing an additional 20+ hours of charity work for about 5-6 years, but I get rest knowing they have comforts I never knew. Until now I guess, even if I don’t really get to enjoy them much.

            I could have been a lowlife loser. It is the path many of my friends chose. Most of the guys I used to run with are either dead or in prison now. I had every excuse. I chose differently and worked very hard for it. Just a few days ago my credit score finally got up to 764 – I am in the “excellent” credit ranking. Hard work, diligence, responsibility, accountability, and endlessly getting back up after each time I was knocked down… that is how I did it.

            I was never saying that racism isn’t real or downplaying it as something less than it is. However, I feel sometimes it is overstated in situations where the premise isn’t true. I understand that blacks have a harder time generally in comparison to the “average” middle-classed white guy. However, there are opportunities and programs available for advancement. Many of the same opportunities exist. I have all the respect in the world for someone that tries, fails, and tries again until they succeed. I have no patience or sympathy for lazy people that blame society for all their ills and sit on their hands waiting for others to do all the work for them, regardless of what bloodlines spawned their carcass.

            It is not my anger, since I am no longer angry about anything – well, maybe our poor choices in political leaders these last few years (geez they’ve been a terrible lot), nor am I prejudice against most anything – unless you are someone that is harmful to the general health, well-being, or economics of society. These dislikes run from the top of the ladder down and aren’t based upon unchangeable person traits or characteristics of oneself, but the changeable ones that we choose directly or inadvertently. If you’re poor due to oppression… then shame on your oppressors. If you are poor due to a distinct lack of desire to work… then shame on you.

            Now, if you are a victim of some kind of oppression that resulted in a loss of monetary gains or property you are due compensation, like the Asian people that were placed in internment after Pearl Harbor. If your great great grand 3rd cousin was one of 29 slaves that worked for a cotton farmer in 1842, whose great great grandsons now own US Cotton, do I believe that you would have a right to claim a percentage of the annual income of that corporation today? No, because the person in question has not been directly effected nor indirectly effected in any manner resulting in damages or loss of any monetary or property possessions. Should the Mauritanian or Chadian slaver’s families restore the estate that they kidnapped your ancestor from? If you are a child or grand child of that person, yes. I would even say great grand child. Beyond that, I mean, where do we set the statute of limitation? If you hit me with your car and I have injuries that result in a permanent physical disability I only get 2 years to sue.

            Equality and discrimination should apply equivocally to all citizens – not the “flavor of the day.”

            Sorry – I am ranting and tired beyond tired. Been working all day and getting up in 4 hours to start again. I apologize if my rhetoric is across the board right now and I do not have the energy to proof read and edit. Hopefully my position can be slightly better understood.

          28. Betterbob says

            Frankly I am not interested in your personal history. Also, you are absolutely right, I have read enough of your writings not to like you.
            I do not like what you say or talk about and as far as I’m concerned you are a racist. End of story.

          29. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

            hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.

            willful ignorance: is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one’s inner model of reality.

            confirmation bias: the tendency for people to seek out information that conforms to their pre-existing view points, and subsequently ignore information that goes against them, both positive and negative.

            prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

            fanatic: a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.

            egoist: an ethical theory in which a person treats their own self-interests as the foundation of morality.

            My description of what you have openly publicly displayed of yourself throughout this conversation in seven words. About sums you up huh?

          30. Betterbob says

            All very clever but entirely wrong unless you are looking in the mirror and describing yourself.
            Your very good with the accusations which about fits a bigot because they love to throw out insults to those they despise.
            Yet your very short on substance and evidence for what you say. That is also typical of a bigot. All your terms, are worth without evidence for what you say and you have none, just like you had none for the contradiction you claimed was present.Go learn something.

          31. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Ironically a nod back to your comment that begat this conversation: “I am associated with institutions which have hundreds of very successful African Americans, many probably more successful than you.” In the very next sentence you stated: “I see daily African Americans with none of the advantages you have.”

            You cannot brag success and superiority and then cry oppression and inferiority in the same thought construct. It is a contradiction.

            contradiction: a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another; a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present; the statement of a position opposite to one already made.

          32. Betterbob says

            You don’t even understand what I am talking of because you are so tied up in your own biases.
            I did say quote “”I am associated with institutions which have hundreds of very successful African Americans, many probably more successful than you.” I also said quote “”I see daily African Americans with none of the advantages you have.”.
            The reason for that is many of our students come without the advantages but with our programs we allow them to be successful. We also go out and work in the community where there are many with who are dirt poor and at a loss how to help themselves. So the students we help come into the community to help others. No contradiction whatsoever.
            Go learn something.

          33. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Well sir, that actually sounds like an admirable practice – but it wasn’t what you said until now. How was I supposed to know all these underlying points that weren’t previously mentioned? Our students, I suppose you are a teacher or instructor of some kind. That is also admirable.

            That’s the kind of good I am speaking of – give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry again.

            I know all about the dirt poor in the community, I was running my own “feed the homeless” outreach for a few years (until funds ran out and I nearly lost my home because I didn’t stop). I also noticed that of our 500+ homeless in Fort Myers we fed each week, a vast majority were minorities, women, children, and the largest concentration of white men in the group (about 80%) were disabled veterans. I tried to find these people odd jobs and other programs around here but there are next to none and the few that exist have little to no openings available and waiting lines that create estimates of potential help being available in roughly 18 months!

            My big issue with the current status of the leading groups in the civil rights movements is that they cling to these questionable occurrences like the Martin and Brown shootings when they ignore travesties like Walter Scott and Samuel DuBose, which were unquestionable murders caught on video. Then others like the Chapel Hill shooting, which no one cared about because these unarmed kids were Muslims. The corporate controlled media leads these groups to grab a hold of the nonsense stories that fall through later as they allow unquestionable horrors to slip past. I believe that planted disinformation is an intentional creation to obscure justice and distract from many larger, less emotionally charged problems. Also, it seems almost as if the media is orchestrating these riots which create way too much negative attention for the civil rights movement and reinforce the fears that fuel the remaining racism in the US by encouraging fearful white voters to push for more militarization of law enforcement, which in turn creates a more intimidating and oppressive force in poor communities that tend to be mostly minorities.

            The second is the fact that they focus so much on handouts (in the media – which makes the impressionable follow) instead of hand-ups – as you have explained that you do (as a living). I believe that the issue that needs to be addressed in resolving the remaining strains of racism in the US is education in the keys of success in the system, as well as eliminating any laws or procedures that were created to present a biased process. Very few seem to understand how well that would benefit the nation.

            I will confess that I had completely misunderstood you until that post.

            What is it that I should learn?

          34. Betterbob says

            Quote “Then others like the Chapel Hill shooting, which no one cared about because these unarmed kids were Muslims” I care as do a lot of people.
            This is why I do not like you.
            As for you not understanding. You just jumped to conclusions.

          35. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            I care as well, greatly – willing to die for what I care about, thus the reason I made mention of it. Here is a post I just made (moments ago) on YouTube in regard to intolerance toward Muslims in the US. (primarily against a rather bigoted commentator that is against Muslims in the US)


            In the United States we have Constitutional items known as the freedom of speech, religion, and private property rights.

            These rights grant freedoms from whatever God you worship (or not worship at all) to what color you paint your house. If someone decides that they wish for their family to pray to Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha, or no one at all, at their dinner table, as per US Law, it is no one else’s business. This works the same for many things. Therefore, if we give title and deed to a 3 square mile tract of land to a thousand Middle Eastern Muslim refugees, and they wish to govern their private property with Sharia Law, for so long as it does not breach national and state law, they are welcome to do so under the US Constitution. It is the US Federal government’s job to figure out policies on how to police such things in respect to their Muslim beliefs, not the other way around.

            These same laws bring you nudist colonies, religious colonies, militia camps, hunting reserves, naturalist pot-smoking hippie communes, green colonies, organic foods, concerts like Woodstock & Lallapalooza, sporting events, religious revivals, free-speech assemblies, protests, herbal medicines, environmentalism, animal rights activism, feminists, the LGBT community, the clothing you wear, the bumper stickers on your car, and many other acceptable freedoms that don’t hurt anyone, and we as Americans tolerate. It’s called “FREEDOM” the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint – and it is the base of what being American is all about. Maybe Americans just need to get with the program and learn to assimilate with their own social freedoms and appreciate them, because the day we start infringing on their freedoms, we ARE infringing on our own…

            “He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.” ~Benjamin Franklin

            It is what the founding fathers stressed more than anything else. God bless the USA!

            If that upsets you, good! Leave… Move to Burma, North Korea, Turkmenistan, Libya, Cuba, Eritrea, Laos, Uganda, Vietnam, or just join ISIS! I hear they even have a Twitter account for easy recruitment! You’ll fit right in with your bigoted heart.

            OR alternately… Don’t… stay – these freedoms also give you the right to be the bigot you are!

            Our beliefs are more similar generally than you believe. Our approach is just different. I only rally behind things that I know are correct and avoid standing on the fringe stories as much as possible. I am more scientific about it. If there are two conflicting stories and both express equal doubt then neither can be accepted or both must be accepted – I tend to choose neither v. dual acceptance. If two stories are expressed and one has more doubt and less fact than another and the other has more grounded support I err on the side of the most provable story.

            It doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that the issues expressed don’t exist, just in this particular case, less evidence supports Martin’s side of the story than Zimmerman’s. This should not be construed into the idea that I do not believe in racism, white privilege, racial violence, or any other related subject to the tale at hand, only the prevailing tale at hand is in question here.

            I realize my example is somewhat off-topic (subject of Muslims and not Trayvon Martin) but the mindset is the same. I believe strongly in everyone’s equality, rights, and liberties. I am willing to die for the cause of freedom.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6D2JYSFYro

          36. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            I think we are both guilty of greatly misunderstanding one another’s intentions.

          37. Blessed_Miarah says

            I am also curious what type you think Gunny is? Don’t let the Sarge get to you. LOL He can be abrasive but he is a nice guy and means well.

          38. Betterbob says

            I can only go by what I have seen in his posts. If he writes abrasively then that is what I assume he is.

          39. Janice says

            Robert,
            Then why did you bother mentioning the video-game. You are Der Dummkopf who first mentioned the video-game here. It has very little to do with the case, outside the allegory of racism and the vicious cycle of gun-ownership. Your detailed description makes your denial of having played the game highly incredulous.

            You, sir, twisted my statement out of context. Can’t you read my statement more carefully? I just said, that killing in self-defense is justified. That is what the 2A may be valid in today’s context. Even that, it does not forbid lawmakers to develop regulations for granting licenses to carry a firearm. This all says for a reasonable gun-control which the gun-violence victims Brady, Gifford, the moms from the Aurora, Stockdale, Newtown shootings and many many other gun victims advocate, You have the temerity to refuse to listen to them.

            I insist in my conviction that a mass ownership of guns is a danger to public health and safety. This will return us to the Old Wild West, to repeated shoot-outs between angry individuals, increased political assassinations, and criminals getting hell of easy access to firearms, much easier than in other countries. You need to get into your thick skulls, there is absolutely no defense, not even martial arts, against someone with a loaded gun standing at a distance longer than your arms or jump. The gun on your hip sits uselessly.

            Reducing the general gun ownership surely translates to less gun deaths, also reduces the crimes with a gun.

          40. Mike Johnson says

            Might be true, but I have a hammer. Woman like poison, just ask Melissa Ann Friedrich how many husbands died while she was married to them.

          41. Janice says

            This is an idiotic reply. Your hammer, poison and many others are not designed to kill, but guns are SOLELY designed to do so. They are quicker than other weapons and less lethal.

          42. Mike Johnson says

            glad to see you are still insulting people who point out other options. And poison I think is designed to kill, but I guess I am wrong. What is poisons other uses besides killing things ???

            Poison is strictly controlled ?? No one asked me anything when I bought the anti-freeze, one woman killed two or three with jello and anti-freeze, and yes it was a slow painful death. And Home Depot has some great poison, cash buys it, no ID. You must not have studied history.

            “The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.”

            “We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

            As to your last statement I working in NYC, and no working man could get a gun permit, we ALL had guns, just could not get the permits. People with money, they could get a permit, not the average working citizen. And my gun saved me twice, and you’re right the street thugs knew we were armed. Not many were stupid enough to try us, but once in a while a high one would. Needless ownership of guns?? go to Harlem, or the Bronx, or East New York to the projects after dark, and in NYC its dark by 4:30pm in the wintertime, and at night work in these places are dangerous. Maybe you work in a nice safe building, Google “One of the Most Dangerous Jobs in New York: Gypsy Cab Driver” and read how safe it is.And then Google “getting A NYC Handgun Permit”. While you talk of racism, it is the poor minorities who get kill trying to make a living, and many go to jail for having an illegal gun because they need it but can not get a permit. You live in your sheltered world, not all of use are so lucky.

          43. Robert says

            Please read what I said S L O W L Y. I said video clips such as you see on you tube. That it was a “game” that thugs play. (in real life, not on a television ).

          44. Janice says

            Robert,
            Sorry, you defend your bringing irrelevant items here. I asked what does it has to do with the Zimmerman and Martin? You are mixing apples and oranges. What thugs play is irrelevant here. Why did you say only thugs would play it, when the game is generally accessible? Did Martin or Zimmerman play it that may explain why they are violent?

            Again, please don’t bring non-pertinent discussions, sir ?

          45. mossbergman says

            it’s not that black and white as you make it .read the Stand Your Ground Laws, not what the “media” anti gun driven agenda try to project, the real law. .I’m sure if you were jumped and your head was being smashed into the side walk to the point you were about to black out ,and you had a way to stop it ,you would just let the guy kill you . Right.? ~~~When can deadly force be used ~~

            “Deadly force is generally defined as physical force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury. In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents. Deadly force is that force which could reasonably be expected to cause death or grave bodily harm”. http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/use-of-deadly-force/ ~~to much you hear from the media is biased .

          46. Bob Pante says

            It had nothing to do with stand your ground, It was strictly self defense.

          47. Janice says

            But the argument brought to-date has been the “standing the ground” as the justification. There are details unbeknowst us that declared it applicable. Even self-defense does not hold. Zimmerman had other non-lethal options.

          48. Bob Pante says

            No he didn’t George was getting beat so bad he would have been dead by the time the police arrived. The violent history of Trayvon was with held.

          49. joe says

            you were not there you KNOW NOTHING so quit spewing he had other options you are clueless. We have a dead violent criminal this is a good thing you should be having cake

          50. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Having cake!!! ROFL!!! That is a first in reference to this story…

          51. Janice says

            I have said already x-times here. Didn’t you read them?

            Zimmerman could have started a friendly conversation with Martin before the physical encounter, right upon seeing him, before he dialed 911. He would have found out that he belonged to the neighborhood on his way home. A physical confrontation would not have happened.

          52. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Who starts a friendly conversation with someone that is high on drugs and breaking into a home? Who does that Janice? When you see some thug in a dark alley in a dark hoodie breaking into a home – do you just approach them and say, “Hello there! Nice weather we are having tonight! May I ask why you are currently in the middle of a B&E? Just mildly curious.”

          53. Janice says

            So, Mr Sgt, you judge him guilty just upon seeing him! The B&E’s and other flaws attributed to him are much after the fact and did not play any role in the trial. You seem to advise Zimmerman to consider Martin a suspect, no matter what, had you been the dispatcher yourself. But the actual dispatcher was wiser in this to tell him off. The purported “thug” will be in the arms of the law soon enough.The police department had an eye on him already.

            What it leaves for Zimmerman, he has been developing bad feelings seeing the murdering gun everyday. It must have driven him insane. He is seeking the opportunity to get rid of it and makes money.
            .

          54. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            What are you babbling about, Mrs. Janice? I didn’t see him, ever, therefore I did not judge Trayvon upon seeing him. You are just throwing baseless accusations out now.

            “The B&E’s and other flaws attributed to him are much after the fact and did not play any role in the trial.”

            Correct, they did not play any role in the trial because:

            TRAYVON WAS GUILTY OF AN ACT OF INTENSE FELONY VIOLENCE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN – it was a clean cut case of self-defense.

            HOWEVER, you seem to assert that Zimmerman was some murderous racist looking to snuff out little black boys (because you Janice, know precisely what Zimmerman was thinking at that time with your amazing telepathic abilities) and portray Trayvon as the media did – an innocent 12 year old choir boy that played football and ate candy. You are not considering that he was kicked out of football 4 years before, hadn’t been to church in years, quit his concession stand job 2 years before, was involved in a drug crowd and posed for social media selfies with guns, blunts, tattoos, and gold grillz. Then finally, Skittles/Jolly Ranchers, Arizona Watermelon/Grape drinks, and codeine/promethazine cough syrup are the ingredients of “purple drank,” also known as “lean,” “bo,” “Texas Tea,” and “sizzurp,” which is something that Martin’s friends confessed that he had been abusing for a couple years AND his “girlfriend” had texted him asking if he was on it a few hours before.

            “You seem to advise Zimmerman to consider Martin a suspect…”

            I never advised, nor even seemed to advise, Zimmerman of anything, ever, because I was not the dispatcher, nor have I ever spoken with Zimmerman before – through any means.

            Had I been the dispatcher I would have instructed him the same way because I would NOT have known he was armed and capable to defend himself. So, as a former state trooper, police standard operating procedure (so the division cannot held responsible for the actions of an individual) would be to instruct the civilian to stand down and allow the armed police being dispatched to handle the situation. To assert that things would have ended differently, assuming you mean Trayvon still being alive, isn’t fair to assert.

            Since the coroner’s report showed that Martin had ethanol/alcohol, tetrahyrdocannabinol, and promethazine in his system he was suffering any myriad of these side effects: Drowsiness, Dizziness and lightheaded feeling, Blurred vision, General confusion, Abnormal thinking, Fast or irregular heartbeat, Intense sweating, Hallucinations, Paranoia, Tremors, convulsions, or uncontrolled shaking of the hands (or even the entire body), Extreme agitation or anxiety, depression, Persistent insomnia, Nausea or vomiting, and Seizures. If you are tripping and jump out and attack a police officer they will also likely shoot you.

            What Zimmerman is doing now, or has done since, has nothing at all to do with who he was before he was a media pariah and started receiving daily harassment from virtually anyone that recognized him – for 4 years and 3 months now.

            If he is arrested now it will not have anything to do with Trayvon Martin since double-jeopardy is still illegal in the US. If someone told you that police are going to arrest him again for Trayvon Martin – they are probably also doing the “lean.”

            He is being driven insane by idiots harassing and threatening he and his family, not an inanimate object.

            Of course he is going to sell it – it is worth a fortune to collectors of iconic firearms. There is niche for just about every type of weirdo out there.

            A portrait of Zimmerman before Trayvon Martin

            http://www.businessinsider.com/george-zimmerman-before-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-2012-4

          55. Mike Johnson says

            true, could let Trayvon beat him to death, that was an option, Zimmerman may disagree that was a good option.

          56. Janice says

            Johnson,
            your obstinate mind again refuses to understand the point that the physical encounter, the latter part of the whole incident, can be avoided. It was Zimmerman’s failure to do the smart things. He did not, most probable because he felt so superior and mighty having a gun with him.

            Zimmerman was just lucky that Martin did not carry a gun. I just wonder what would he do, when he knew that Martin also had a gun.

          57. Mike Johnson says

            Have you ever carried a gun? again you insult me, yet you talk of what you do not know. Trayvon was HIGH, his brain was not working well. You put the blame on Zimmerman, and no blame on Trayvon. What keeps a person alive is knowing when to put your hands up.

            And its called a gun fight. And when you are patrolling your complex you have to assume Trayvon was armed, and HIGH. And if I was in Trayvon’s place the last thing I would do is attack. Hands up, in plain sight, no quick moves, police shoot people who do not think, and sometimes shoot them running away. And police are TRAINED in these situations, on combat ranges. They call them combat ranges for a reason, some streets are combat. If Zimmerman was a paid security guard this would not be an issue.

            Have you ever held a gun?? no you live in your safe house and never were in a poor neighborhood.

          58. joe says

            all wrong I do not care if zimmerman followed him around all day calling him the n word it does not excuse the violent response. Martin was an animal no self control he needed to be exterminated he would have ended up killing someone. He proved he had no self control and no respect for human life so he needed to be eliminated he was scum

          59. denniscerasoli says

            Are you sure that your feelings don’t go beyond this particular incident? My only thoughts were did he have to kill him,i ‘m not talking white and black or even if Martin was a good or not and i am not connecting it to Ferguson with the cop killing the guy,i am talking about two guys who were fighting,he could have been a white guy he shot.According to what i read the investigation said that Trayvon was talking to his girl friend on his phone and he told her that some guy was following that looked creepy and he was staring,unless we were there we wouldn’t know everything in detail,when Zimmerman called the dispatcher he said that there was a guy that looked suspicious he didn’t say he was looking into windows and up to that who would know for sure? There were a couple witness’s that said they were fighting and that Trayvon was on top when the shot was heard and what probably saved Zim was the bloody lip and nose and the back of his head probably from the ground,other then that Zimmerman was the only real witness but there is no way you convict on 1st degree murder and i think they knew it when they charged him,and the only reason why they charged him and i think we all know,there would have been riots,they charged only to please the blacks plain and simple.

          60. joe says

            Here we go I wondered how long it would take for you to call me a racist, typical of your kind. This is simple the criminal was trying to kill him he defended himself end of story, color matters not, as much as you seem to want to make that an issue. If someone was bashing your head against the concrete what would you do try to reason with him, no you would use lethal force to protect your own life and if you try to tell me you would not you are a liar. NOTHING else matters period it does not matter what he was told to do it does not matter why he was there it does not matter if he was calling that piece of chit names the whole time. YOU DO NOT USE VIOLENCE to counter words or non violent actions if you do you are scum and need to be exterminated. Extreme violence is dealt with in one way extreme violence HE HAD A RIGHT TO LIVE even is he was a racist which he was not HE HAD A RIGHT TO LIVE. If you say it is OK for a black guy to kill someone because he was called the n word then you have a sick sense of justice. Here is what matters the criminal was trying to kill him the criminal got shot good for Zimmerman give him a gift certificate to Applebees and a medal. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS get that through your skull it is over and done with and the good guy won. I have zero feelings for the criminal he was nothing but a target to be eliminated once he went on the attack.

          61. Janice says

            First, when one engages someone in a fist fight, he NEVER intended to kill his opponent. The attacked should know that and evaluate the confrontation accordingly, even wounded. He would be wise to surrender momentarily and initiate some talking to deescalate. It would be a decision in the split-seconds. He chose instead to kill him off just because of the gun in his hand. The photos that MGySgt put here shows abrasions, no serious wounds from the contact with the hard pavement (abrasions no gashes).

            Joe, you seem to refuse what transpired before the physical encounter. You want to place Zimmerman being the victim no matter what, even he was the primary instigator, having all the powers of the situation in his hands to decide what’s the best to do. Poor decision making happens too often, especially when you have a gun with you.

          62. joe says

            Bashing someones head against a concrete sidewalk is not a fist fight you dimwit it is attempted murder go vacuum something. And LISTEN UP you seem to have a problem with this. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ZIMMERMAN WAS DOING PERIOD you do not resort to violence because someone is following you or calling you names or what ever how stupid are you. Guns are NOT the problem I carry one every day it is the criminals like that piece of chit martin that are the problem and they need to be ELIMINATED. I would have done the same thing and not felt any worse than shooting a rat in the dump about it

          63. Mike Johnson says

            It happens more than twice a day, on average. Fists and feet were responsible for 745 murders in 2010, or 5.7 percent of all murders that year, according to FBI statistics.

            Just pulled up the numbers from 2010. Maybe when you are getting beat on you might have a better point of view. You would be surprised how a young man on drugs can beat you to death. And now for my racist comment, watch out for drunk Polish guys, the ones I know could kill you with one punch. Also watch out for pissed off second baseman, but they can’t knock down a big outfielder. They do get 8 games suspension when they try.

          64. Janice says

            You again missed my point. I do know that fist and other implements CAN kill. But mush less so than with guns. You cannot interpret the statistics more intelligently.

            Your argument is OOOOOOLLLLDDD and not valid when talking about dangerous objects that are FAR LESS lethal than guns. Round 40,000 people were killed by guns last year. That is much much much more than your number about the fist and feet.

            Million fist fights, who knows how many more, occur every year, but only paltry 745 persons were murdered by f and f. Billion times, hammer are used, how often are they used to murder? Etc, Etc, Do you want to say that they are equally or more dangerous than guns? You give that impression with this counter.

          65. Mike Johnson says

            Google “fbi murder statistics” read. Yes guns kill, so do cars, and bombs. and bats, and knifes, ect… Zimmerman was patrolling his complex. Guns to me are a tool, nothing more nothing less. The gun does not commit murder, the person does, and in Trayvon’s case he and Zimmerman decided to confront each other. You want to blame the gun, you want to blame Zimmerman, and Trayvon is still the sweet innocent child. My point which you seem to be unable to understand is Zimmerman with no gun could have been killed by this HIGH confrontational young man. Trayvon knowing he was being followed, if he was not HIGH, would have known to talk to Zimmerman, but because he was HIGH and young and a street smart thug attacked a man with a gun. Trayvon is just as responsible for being in this situation.

          66. Janice says

            Johnson,
            why do you keep ignoring the point that Zimmerman being the pursuer is obligated to initiate the talk — at the very very beginning, not later. Can’t you read my posts S L O W L Y and again to absorb the WHOLE point? You constantly lay the attention on the physical encounter later that could have been avoided had Zimmerman made a friendly conversation before he made the 911 call. Martin is not obligated to initiate this talk. It would not be a wise thing for him to do so, because he feared Zimmerman would attack him with a gun and needed to disarm him first. ZImmerman escalated the encounter by the failure of talking with him. Period, no argument!

            You are regurgitating the Ole NRA trash about guns don’t kill, but a person does.
            Don’t forget guns when used make out of persons a killer. Guns are a tool – true – but they are killing machines by design and by intent by their consumers..

          67. Mike Johnson says

            Read my post slowly, you will never acknowledge Trayvon was not a good person. His reaction is not that of a updet A student who is being profiled. As a street wise thief he gave put his right to be upset that he is being watched. He was HIGH at the time he died, everyone skips over Trayvon’s choice to be HIGH, and I can not find anything about when he or where he was smoking his pot, but the ME reported it in his report.

            Janice it might be your thing, to smoke pot, and I am sure your children do to. My children worked hard in school, never got suspended, and went to college, and got degrees. My children were never pickup with stolen woman’s jewelry and lied to the police and plead the 5th amendment.

            These things might be normal for you and your children so you understand this is normal for Trayvon. I thing these things to be bad, illegal, and not the path to a college degree,and a good job.

            Why do you let your family smoke pot, steal, and get suspended from school?

            It is not allowed in my house, so I can’t understand it. Maybe you can explain to me why you allow it in your house?

          68. Janice says

            The reading problem is yours. You just keep regurgitate stale food that does not bear at all to the case. The case concerns Zimmerman only with Martin as the victim. The “facts” you keep repeating has no bearing and they even were not the reason why Zimmrman got a not guilty verdict (reason “reasonable doubt”).

            I not even said he was a paragon of virtue or an angel. He may be a thug, but this DOES NOT make Zimmerman innocent of murder, nor justify to be a suspect of anything. He made him guilty upon spotting his black face wearing a hooded jacket for the first time, unquestiond, and called 911 that he was following a suspicious fellow. The dispatcher recognized racism and told him to stop pursuing him. Why do you keep ignoring this fact? This is the most relevant piece to show how to avoid a violent confrontation to develop. Zimmerman did not consider preventation, but he SEEKS violence, feeling himself secure for having a gun, ready to use. His propensity for violence was known at the time of trial, given his rap sheet of domestic violence and a number of restraining orders.

            Your strenuous defense of Zimmerman may indicate you would have done the same way as Zimmerman, were you at the scene and played neighborhood watch?

            Now you are attacking to my person, while bragging about your children and grandchildren. They don’t prove any shit to me that you are a good guy. The words in your posts tell me enough of what kind of person you are, racist, bigot, hate monger. As I glean from your posts, I can ascertain a dark personality, a prime example of a Brownshirt in the Nazi Germany prior to WW 2 who tormented the German population. I would not be surprised if you are a member of the Aryan nation.

          69. Mike Johnson says

            I have no grandchildren, what are you talking about ??? And you again insult me when you have nothing left to argue with.

            You are one strange puppy. I do not defend zimmerman, but Trayvon is no saint.

            Did you really call me a NAZI, because Trayvon in a street wise thug ????

            Really, go back to your drugs, your mind is sick.

          70. Janice says

            Johnson, you write:
            “And you again insult me when you have nothing left to argue with.”
            “Really, go back to your drugs, your mind is sick.”

            You are really describing yourself, what you write. Your reading and ability to interpret are also at fault … AGAIN. Your words show too strongly the type of person I described you.

            The mention of your family is by itself idiotic and serves NO PURPOSE in the discussion.

          71. Mike Johnson says

            You mentioned my family, and I did not realize until you did that you post under multiple names. What is wrong, can’t remember who you are from post to post.

            Try to get your posts right, now take the drugs for your problems and go away.

            You and Betterbob. also you. How many personalities are if that warped mind of yours?

          72. Janice says

            Sorry, I must say, your comments put you to shame! You are just lucky to be in the environs of other warped gun-toting, unable to understand the human nature and following plain common sense. You are dishing out insults after insults, refusing to consider relevant facts and the big picture, especially the events before the confrontation. Your mind is warped and obsessed with guns. Plus you are showing signs of dementia as you didn’t remember your own bragging of your family and accusing me and my children all the opposites you can think of yourself and your kids, before I threw your family bragging back to you. Just look a few postings above. Remember, anyone self-aggrandizing is highly suspect and will be met with my contempt. You are doing the “pot calling the kettle black”!

          73. Mike Johnson says

            Who was at fault, the Titanic or the iceberg ? Simple question, Simple answer. You can answer it or one of your many other personalities can, whatever works.

          74. Janice says

            Your faulty thinking amazes me truly. Bringing this inane Titanic issue does not illuminate anything to the Martin/Zimmerman issue. Neither the ship nor the iceberg was the problem, but the greedy owner and meek captain were. Alas the captain must sacrifice his life while the selfish owner jumped into the life boat with a money chest, pushing a mother and child away. Your intelligence shows here!

          75. Mike Johnson says

            The question was to show you that it was NOT a simple question. the zimmerman travyon was the same thing, many things were in play. And when two ships collide in the knight no one knows the story. God will handle it. Move on with your life..

          76. Janice says

            Mike, it was YOU YOU YOU who tried to confuse the issue of Martin and Zimmerman to make Martin being the iceberg causing Titanic to sink, whereas it was Zimmerman who STARTED the whole trouble like the greedy owner in the Titanic disaster. The problem lies in your faulty analogy of the Titanic and iceberg with Martin and Zimmerman. YOU MOVE WITH YOUR LIFE, BUT PLEASE NO FAULTY THINKING

          77. Mike Johnson says

            Betterbob and Janice, and whatever names you use. All I am trying to say is no one can judge what happened that night. So far you have called me more names than I can list, from a Nazi to an idiot. Anyone reading all this will have a good laugh. I know I am, your posts have been insulting, nasty, and offensive, I guess that’s all you got. It is truly sad all you want to do is blame someone. I would hope you never sit on a jury.

          78. denniscerasoli says

            I didn’t say you were racist i only asked because of all the problems there have been in Ferguson and Baltimore and you no damned well what i mean.When i see all the BS that is going on with BLM and all the complaining and moaning i tend to get angry myself.My first comment on this subject if you go back and read it was about two people fighting with their fists apparently and one killing the other with a hand gun and i have no idea what was on Zimmermans mind and i still think according to the dispacther that it could have been prevented if he did what the dispacther told him to do and this piece of shit that you are talking about has a mother who might not look at her son that way.As far as self defense goes,i most certainly will kill you if you are about to kill me.

          79. joe says

            bashing someones head on a concrete sidewalk is NOT A FIST FIGHT IT IS ATTEMPTED MURDER wow how you people can even try to justify what that rat criminal Martin did is beyond me he got exactly what he deserved and I would have done the exact same thing and not felt even a little bad about it. I never said he was an innocent bystander quit putting words in my mouth I said IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT HE WAS DOING PERIOD he was causing no physical harm. why is it so hard for you to understand you do not resort to violence because someone was following you. I donot give a crap if zimmerman was calling him names the whole time IT DOES NOT MATTER GET THAT INTO YOUR SKULL

          80. denniscerasoli says

            Relax, don’t get excited and i’ll be damned if i let this BS upset me.No one is making excuses all i said was if Zimmerman had listened to the dispatcher…we don’t need you to do that…….Zimmerman probably wouldn’t have had to kill anyone,can you get that through your skull? I’m going to check out Trayvon’s police record.

          81. denniscerasoli says

            Check it out.

          82. denniscerasoli says

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin This one is totally unbiased and i haven’t even read it yet.

          83. mac12sam12 says

            Zimmerman didn’t use the N word because he’s Hispanic and his grandfather was black. Trayvon’s girlfriend said that Martin loved to fight and there was never enough blood for him. Martin was in Zimmerman’s neighborhood scoping for his next B&E. Before they took down Trayvon’s Facebook page it showed photos of him holding two illegal guns and stolen jewelry on his bed. Trayvon played the knockout game with the wrong guy and got what he deserved, a dirt nap.

          84. joe says

            Yes I know he did not I am just trying to make a point with these thick skulled dullards that keep trying to make excuses for a scumbag criminal. He got what he deserved as soon as he went on the attack, these dimbulbs just do not get it. His only justifiable reason for using violence would have been in self defense and he certainly could not claim that he was the agressor. He attacked he is dead he deserved it end of story. What happened before the attack MEANS NOTHING!! and these chuckleheads keep trying to make excuses oh the dispatcher oh he should not have been there oh he was following him SO WHAT it means nothing it has nothing to do with this situation. The only crime Zimmerman comitted was littering for leaving his dead criminal on the street he should have put it in a dumpster.

          85. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            Joe, you are looking at this all wrong… ALL WRONG!

            Forget the Constitution, forget all the 7000 firearms laws in the US that Zimmerman was abiding, forget all about stand your ground, self-defense, and all the other rights and liberties granted to US citizens and focus on the core issue…

            Zimmerman has a white name and was perceived white by the media, and Martin was black. Therefore, due to 87 years of US slavery that ended 153 years ago ALL blacks are magically innocent no matter WHAT they do — EVER. They could execute 12 babies in a nursery and then shoot the nurses, orderlies, and doctors that try to stop them – THEN kill two police officers on their way out the door… BUT if the authorities choose any method other than non-lethal apprehension, they are wrong… HELL< if they rough him up a little too much during non-lethal apprehension they ARE STILL WRONG! If the courts find him guilty of his crimes it's only because he is black and then they are also wrong. If the media or society scorns any of that then the President of the United States will call them racists. Also, obviously, only "perceived whites" with guns shouldn't have guns. "Perceived whites" and all unformed personnel are the only ones that ever commit murders with guns – NEVER black (or various shades of anything darker than perceived white) criminals…

            If a red haired Irishman shot Zimmerman – Zimmerman would've been black…

            It's all this damn rap music I swear!

          86. Betterbob says

            Where do you get this garbage from?

          87. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            It was a fictitious story making light of the former comment. The kind of tripe you support obviously. You need to read Janice’s comments to understand how this got here. Normally, I would be the voice of reason – but the dung river is getting too deep for my tolerance. Ironically, I am a typically a much more patient person.

          88. Betterbob says

            OK I’ll give you that.

          89. Blessed_Miarah says

            I love your sarcasm! People tend to miss the most basic of principals when their emotions get the best of them.

            The media did misconstrue Trayvon big time but the media appealed to the uneducated and misled many people to make a fortune off it. The following riots and such were a big bonus and it allowed the supporting gun grabber politicians to slide a few more bills through under the radar limiting our freedoms and increasing their power.

            I totally agree with your overly cynical comment. If someone lighter complected shot Zimmerman they would have painted him as black or stressed that he was a Peruvian minority. He don’t look white at all. Only those with the race blinders on see it that way.

            However, you may want to tone it down a little Gunny, if people that don’t know you read this it comes off in an aggressive tone and with racist sounding speak. Well, if you are overly sensitive and unable to see the reality. Wise man once said, catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

          90. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

            I was just being overly dramatic with that comment, thanks for noticing. I also wrote that really fast and without much thought or editing. I think it may have come off more aggressive than funny. I realize there is a real problem but that real problem is being convoluted with nonsense stories that the reporters have simply lied to millions over and over. They diluted and diverted the facts of the case. Quite simply, the man had the right to defend himself against a violent attacker with lethal force. All the rest is unnecessary information but much of it was nonsense anyway.

            The girlfriend, Rachel Jeantel, the prosecution’s key witness, lied so many times it was baffling! First it was the “creepy-*ss cracker” comment. She told Police this, she told Crumb this, she withheld it from Martin’s mom, her mom, and the defense. Allegedly out of politeness. Later she confessed that “cracker is just what I call white people.” Then she said that Zimmerman attacked first, but on the second day of testimony she withdrew that comment and stated that she didn’t know who started the fight. Then she said she heard Martin say “Get off” just before the fatal shot rang out, but the records show that his call ended a minute before the shooting. Then the defense presented a taped interview before the trial where she admitted she couldn’t hear. Then there is the letter that she allegedly wrote to Martin’s mother where she allegedly described everything that happened. The letter was a key piece of evidence in the prosecution. When cross examining her they asked her to read the letter and she admitted she couldn’t. When they asked why, she said she couldn’t read cursive – SO she wrote a letter in a writing style she couldn’t write? THEN she changed her story and said she dictated to “someone else” who wrote it for her – a someone else that she didn’t know who it was. She lied about going to Trayvon’s wake. She lied and said she went to the hospital when she didn’t. She lied about hearing Trayvon say, “Why you following me?” and a heavy-breathing man say “What are you doing around here.” She lied to the family’s attorney. She was difficult, combative, rolling her eyes the whole time, constantly contradicting herself, the whole thing was a big joke.

            Then there are the witnesses.

            Female witness #1 stated to police the day of the shooting that she seen Zimmerman follow a second man into the alley and then she seen the other man rush forward and tackle Zimmerman and began hitting him hard while he was down. However, during the trial she changed her statement to “Zimmerman was definitely the one on top.”

            Female witness #2 went from seeing two males running and a fist fight to only seeing one male running into the alley. She said that her contact lenses were dirty and that is why she made the mistake.

            Female Witness #5 stated that she seen Martin “viciously attack” Zimmerman “like a professional wrestler on tv,” and then Zimmerman was “screaming for help,” then she heard a “bang” and he fell to the side. In court she stated that she really didn’t see much because of where she was standing and that it was Zimmerman that attacked Martin.

            Female witness #8 said that she seen Martin strike Zimmerman first, adding “he was hitting him very nasty,” then said she seen Martin tackle Zimmerman “like he was a football player,” and proceed to hit Zimmerman “all up in his face,” then she heard a shot and seen Martin fall. Later she said that “it was too dark to really tell but I think Zimmerman knocked that boy down.”

            Female witness #12 went from seeing two men on the ground, unable to tell who was on top, to suddenly having the epiphany that Zimmerman was on top—“because she recognized his size based on news reports.”

            Male witness #3 claimed to see Zimmerman following Martin around the corner and Zimmerman standing a distance from Martin when Martin “doubled-back” and started punching Zimmerman. Then Martin tackled Zimmerman down on the sidewalk and was “beating him bad.” Then he heard the shot and Martin leaned over and fell. Later he withdrew his testimony and said he couldn’t recall.

            Male witness #6 stated that “Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style” and that Zimmerman was the one calling for help, but later claiming he can’t really say anything except Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

            Male witness #13 hasn’t changed his story about Zimmerman telling him that Martin was beating him up, which made him have to shoot him, but he later added to the story now with talk of a “casual tone” by Zimmerman after the incident.

            Several witnesses [among them Jeannee Manalo] admitted to being deceived by the prosecutions photos of Martin (showing him between the ages of 12 and 13 leading to the assumption he was 5′ tall and about 100-120lbs) and changed their stories based on the assumption that Zimmerman, being older that he was larger, but Zimmerman was 5′ 8″ and 200lb and Martin was 6′ and 160lbs at age 17. After being presented with that information, she and several others changed their stories again.

            This shows that people were being played on their desire to do the morally right, socially acceptable thing, and put away a racist child killer. However, the Trayvon Martin they, and the rest of the nation, were sold, wasn’t the real Travyon Martin and it was only after the facts were presented they reasserted stories similar to the ones of the night of the occurrence or withdrew testimony altogether.

            There were also pending charges filed against the family attorney Benjamin Crump (friend of Louis Farrakhan and Nation of Islam/Black Lives Matter attorney) for possible witness tampering. Very little was revealed about that but it is a very serious allegation. (Now this criminal is the President of the Bar Association thanks to some political strings pulled by Obama and Hillary)

            The alleged facts surrounding this story are watery, and most of the prosecution was mounted on inconsistent testimony, but it is nothing compared to the allegations made by the media and their ignorant fanatic followers. All the while the whole case dodged the point, did he have the right to defend himself, which he clearly did.

          91. Bob Pante says

            You obviously weren’t there

          92. cargosquid says

            No evidence shows that Zimmerman approached Martin.
            Zimmerman was not acquitted due to “stand your ground.” His defense did not even claim it. He was already on the ground, being beaten into the concrete.

            You certainly do shoot someone committing felony assault and battery on you, pounding your head into the sidewalk. People die from “fist fights” all of the time.

            Self defense.

          93. joebabe says

            Trayvon’s superior strength plus his two balled fists, booted feet, and a concrete sidewalk were his “Weapons”. I cannot believe that you don’t understand that. ………..P.S., if an assailant is bouncing YOUR head on a sidewalk, you will be losing more “than a fistfight”‘ ( think coma or fractured skull )…….allowing YOURSELF to be beaten to death is irresponsible on your part! You also would “get scared” ( you mean,feared for your life or Great Bodily Harm ,I quess,) and wish you could, “fight him like a man”??? Please re-read the self defense statutes in your state and re-read Florida’s “stand your ground ” laws. They are not the same thing ! Hope this note doesn’t “piss you off “…..and it is about the Second Amendment. Jeez!

          94. denniscerasoli says

            I didn’t say that he shouldn’t have used a gun,read my comments i said that i would also pull the trigger if i felt that i had too.Did you look at the investigation that i posted? Trayvon being a punk isn’t what i was talking about,what i was talking about it that the whole thing could have been avoided and to tell you the truth i am all for the 2nd amendment and i will tell you something else,if they did away with the 2nd it wouldn’t matter to me because if i felt that i needed a gun i would get a gun law or no law,because i will defend myself as i see fit.I won’t be put into a position where the cops put yellow tape around my dead body just because the government says that i can’t own a gun.

          95. joebabe says

            Ok, seems we are on the same page re: Second Amendment. A lot of things could have effected the tragic outcome, eg., Trayvon could have been at home studying or doing his homework and GZ could have been sitting in front of the TV, nursing a beer. But life is not always ideal and stuff happens! A neighborhood watchman and non-resident, both at the same place at the wrong time…………personality clashes, in your face responses, sucker punching, whatever, both may have contributed to this confrontation, verbal assault followed by physical assault, aggravated assault and a deadly response ……all reactions are part of the human condition. Seems like we all CAN’T get along! ……and that’s sad.

          96. denniscerasoli says

            Exactly.

          97. Blessed_Miarah says

            If Trayvon were just walking through the neighborhood it wouldn’t have happened. If a community that has been having a string of break-ins decides together to form a voluntary neighborhood watch that is their prerogative and American right to do so. If you are an armed citizen you have a legal civil duty to stop a crime in progress if you feel you are capable of handling the situation. If you are a robber and caught breaking into a home you need to cease if ordered to do so by a law abiding citizen. If you attack a law abiding citizen for attempting to foil your criminal activity they have the right to use equalizing force. If you place them into a position where a reasonable person would fear for their life you have the right to use lethal force. Zimmerman was just trying to be a good citizen and ended up in a worse situation than he anticipated. He got scared and chose his life over another’s. It is a sad position that he will always have to live with and question himself, what if, for the rest of his life, but I would have done the same thing if it were me.

          98. denniscerasoli says

            If you have read the full manuscript you will find that Trayvon wasn’t breaking any laws.His father was staying at that particular place of residence and Trayvon was also.There are two sides to every coin and Trayvon was just walking through,Zimmerman called the police because he said that a person looked suspicious,and it was also brought out that his attire or dress made Zimmerman suspicious,not that Trayvon was breaking any laws.When the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Trayvon Zimmerman said yes,and the dispatcher said….we don’t need you to do that because the police are going to check it out.We still live in America where we should be able to walk anywhere that doesn’t say trespassing and there was never anything that suggested that Trayvon was doing anything wrong up until the confrontation.If Zimmerman had listened to the dispatcher the whole incident wouldn’t have happened and the unfortunate thing is that Trayvon never had a chance to tell his side of the story.If Zimmerman fired in self defense then fine i can understand that,but some of the things that have happened since tell me that Zimmerman likes to play with guns and his girl has called the police because Zimmerman threatened on a couple occasions to use his gun.Zimmerman had dreams of becoming a judge but in my view he was a wannabee and probably shouldn’t have had a gun because if he didn’t have one that night he would have never approached Martin.Another thing that was mentioned was that the neighborhood committee never allowed their security people to have guns on the job,the only reason why Zimmerman was allowed to carry while working was because of a Pit Bull dog that roamed around the neighborhood.Also,Trayvon except for some pot allegations in school he didn’t have a sheet at the police department.Zimmerman assumed this and that and ignored the dispatcher and a person died,justified or not it shouldn’t have happened.

          99. Blessed_Miarah says

            Okay I will try to tackle this in points agreed upon and not.

            I will agree that it never should have happened, yet, conjecture in hindsight of those not involved is just too easy. We’ve had years to discuss and debate the topic. Throwing all this cult combined thought into the rationale to a situation that went from poor to worse in under 5 minutes is easy for us. It was much harder for them.

            Not sure what you are referring to the “full manuscript” but I have read tons of info on this including the Sanford Police report posted on the Seminole County website and the lengthy court transcripts.

            Martin’s father was not staying at the home that the handicapped man lived in, but his dad had been staying in an adjacent building (1861 Retreat View Cir), however, his dad had not been there in the last week before. He was at some Masonic convention. Martin was in Sanford because his mother had kicked him out because of the poor choices he was making in life.

            According to 3 of the initial witness reports, Trayvon was not “just walking through,” but trying to break into a home that some handicapped man lived in. At 7:16pm the Bush Blvd Seminole Co. Sheriffs Office received a call in reference to an alarm that had been activated at 1611 Retreat View Cir., Sanford FL 32771, which is less than one minute before before the shooting. There had been a string of break-ins in the area.

            The Retreat at Twin Lakes is in Sanford FL (3251 Retreat View Circle, Sanford, FL 32771). They are a gated community with security and posted no trespassing and restrictive access, like any gated community. However they did not have 24 hour security (cheap HOA) and the residents formed a volunteer, unpaid, unofficial, neighborhood watch that Zimmerman, an insurance underwriter, was the Captain of this watch team. They did this because of the repeat break-ins occurring – there was nothing about a pit bull in any of the state reports.

            Martin, a resident of Maimi Gardens FL, was not staying with his father but had just been sent (250 miles away) by his mother Sybrina Fulton less than a week before, to stay with his father, Traydaddy, an East St. Louis Crip gang member turned “Grand Master Mason” (Renford P. Brown Grand Lodge), and father’s girlfriend Brandi Green, during the 10 day suspension Trayvon just got from Krop Senior High School for drug possession on school grounds and missing 53 days of school (in 3 1/2 months). Martin was known by friends to smoke pot, take sedatives, snort bath salts, and deal drugs as was discovered in his personal Twitter feed Trey Slimm Martin the “No_Limit_Nigga.” He also had been suspended three times (fighting, graffiti, drugs) in the last few months and arrested twice (vandalism and possession of drugs, 12 pieces of stolen jewelry including gold wedding bands and diamond earrings, a screwdriver, and what Miami Dade Police officers described as “burglary tools,” which was erroneously reported initially as a misnomer for the screwdriver but later found to be an “E-Z Pick” lockpick gun). “It’s not mine, a friend gave it to me to hold for him,” was his excuse. On October 21st 2011 a burglary took place a few blocks from Krop Senior High School where Trayvon Martin attended. The stolen property outlined in the Miami-Dade Police Report (PD111021-422483) matches the descriptive presented by SRO Darryl Dunn in his School Police report 2011-11477. Both Trayvon and his uncle Stephan were suspects at Miami Dade PD for burglaries around Ives Estates, right around the corner from Krop High School. MDPD Det. Omar Manressa was working this case at the time. Trayvon Martin had one more screw up and he would be permanently expelled and not be able to graduate high school.

            At 6:24 Trayvon left the 7/11 (1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford, FL 32771) and proceeded to Marco’s Pizza. At 6:31pm he orders two slices of pizza. At 6:37 he leaves Marco’s and heads East on Rinehart towards Oregon. At 6:46 Martin makes a right hand turn onto Oregon Ave. He then proceeds down Oregon Ave. At 6:52pm Zimmerman starts following Martin and watching him. At 6:54pm Martin takes a phone call allegedly from Rachel Jeantel, who claims she was his girlfriend (both facts were unconfirmed and the Defense refuted that it was she that called because she did not have any of the facts in chronological order and lied about many things, so her credibility is certainly to be questioned), although many of his friends stated that he was romantically involved with another girl (this came up in the case also) and she was just an old friend from 2nd grade (which she confirmed). At 7:09 Zimmerman calls the police. At 7:11, Zimmerman reports that Martin is running, at 2123 Oregon Ave., Sanford, FL 32771, Martin ducks into the bushes behind The Retreat. At 7:12 Martin hangs up on Jeantel and runs through bushes, scaling a fence and jumping into the gated community’s private property. At that same moment we have the famous line: “Are you following him?” Zimmerman responds with, “Yes.” Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman: “OK.” 7:12-7:13pm Jeantel calls Martin again. Zimmerman tells police he lost sight of Martin. 7:14 Zimmerman’s call dropped as he was trying to relocate Martin. 7:15 Martin hangs up on Jeantel again. At 7:16 the witness calls start pouring in from around 1611 Retreat View Cir., the dark area where the lights that Zimmerman reported were in disrepair, also where the silent alarm was triggered. In this moment the fight and gunshot take place with a total of 8 onlookers before the shot. At 7:17pm Officer T. Smith arrives on scene.

            The things that have happened since, it is unfair to judge Zimmerman now. Everywhere he goes he is called names and ridiculed. There are millions upon millions of people that took the “Official MSNBC” story and never checked into the reality of the situation. They blindly follow the media and believe things that were never facts. His girlfriend was harassed so badly she wanted to leave. This man’s life is ruined. Of course he is going crazy, can you tell me you wouldn’t? I think he is taking it better than I would.

            Zimmerman is a wannabe, in school he was in NAVY ROTC and aspired to be a MARINE, but chickened out. Then he went to college and got a degree in Criminal Justice and tested into the Police Force but inexplicably quit before he ever started. I never heard he wanted to be a judge but that just adds another thing. Zimmerman wanted to be a hero but was obviously afraid to take the plunge.

            The Retreat’s “Security” officers are armed, but they did not want the community created “Neighborhood Watch” team armed, however, they do not have the right to tell private citizens that they cannot protect themselves. It is adverse to the US Constitution.

            Trayvon Martin did have a record (and bad reputation) in Miami not in Sanford. I can try to find and link the police report documents if you like.

            Look, I know I could have just wasted an hour of my life writing all of this. I know you’ll probably just dismiss it without a second thought. However, I challenge you to look further into it. If you are going to publicly post your opinion for the world to see and for others to develop opinions off of, then accept that responsibility and fact check yourself. I am not trying to change what you feel about the situation, but having the full picture and all the facts presented is honestly a necessity for a well rounded and honest opinion.

            I’m not picking on you, just offering perspective.

          100. denniscerasoli says

            Quite a bit of info there but it is all greek to me,i looked at Wickabee which is like a encyclopedia but it didn’t have any of this information.The call to the dispatcher was that Zimmerman said that there was a suspicious looking person and nothing more.Where did this information come from because everything i said was what i read with nothing to do with opinion and not reported by the FBI on their civil rights investigation as far as i know.I would like to look at where all your detailed information came from.

          101. Blessed_Miarah says

            Give me a few minutes, I am at work. I will try to compile some links. I may need to download some items (like the MDPD and the MPD-SRO documents) since Disqus won’t allow download links. I can upload the PDF images to my Google Drive and provide a share link to the folder though if all else fails. It may take me a little while because the info is older now and may be a bit harder to find. I have an old document of notes on my laptop for when I was writing on the SPLC blog.

          102. denniscerasoli says

            Thank you,i just like to lawyer,lol.I find an argument for everything it’s fun.

      4. John E Strom Jr. says

        WHY is it wrong? It’s his property and he’s free to sell it if he likes. It’s the LIBERALS who are making this a big deal. Are you a liberal? If so I could understand your hand wringing.

        1. Tired... says

          If you look, you will see that I was responding to elkhunt, not the article.

      5. edjweaver says

        Hey Tired, it’s nether, nor was, not were. Neither and nor are singular words and require a singular adverb. More important, the writer conveniently (purposely) leaves out the fact that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon IN SELF DEFENSE. We all know that — have known it — but some just don’t have the courage to accept the truth and/or the intellectual honesty to admit it. Trayvon certainly was not innocent. Two crimes were committed, under Florida law, that night, both by Trayvon. He was guilty of assault when he doubled back and sucker-punched Zimmerman, and he committed aggravated assault when he continuously smashed Zimmerman’s head into the concrete. If he hadn’t done so, he’d be alive today. But, you know the mantra white liberals employ: Victim black, other subject white, other subject guilty, regardless of what the facts and witnesses say.

        1. Tired... says

          Hey Ed,

          Grammar…seriously?

          I never made the case that Trayvon was innocent, only that I think that both individuals lost on that night because they made bad decisions. Zimmerman lost several things that night as well, such as his anonymity and his peace of mind. What is wrong with us when we cannot feel for other people, even when they are in the wrong? Lincoln said it best following the war that cost the most American lives to date: “…with malice toward none, with charity for all.” Of course Trayvon was wrong, but that doesn’t mean that we need to celebrate his death.

          1. edjweaver says

            And yes, grammar, seriously. We’re losing our language, from the top down and the leaders of the teachers’ unions want Spanish to be our official language. Go on line for simple grammar tips and you’ll self-correct your errors in no time — and you WILL feel good about it.

          2. Tired... says

            Ed, I don’t correct other people because I make mistakes from time to time for a variety of reasons as well. In reading through your posts I noticed that you are not immune from such mistakes either but I chose to refrain from commenting on them as a courtesy.

          3. Mark Lahti says

            Do either of you guys want to stick to the story here or just slap back and forth like a couple of pre-teen girls?

          4. Tired... says

            Mark, I agree that our little rabbit trail isn’t related to the article, but then again neither is much of what is written in any of these types of posts. If you don’t like the sidebar, then simply pass on to something more interesting.

        2. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

          Not trying to be nitpicky but… 8 crimes, autopsy report showed he was under the influence of Marijuana, MDPV, and prescription grade Temazepam (which according to NCBI – can cause paranoid or suicidal ideation impair memory, judgment, coordination, and can cause anxiety, depression, unusual behavior, thoughts of hurting yourself or others, increased heart rate, memory loss, seeing, hearing and feeling things that aren’t there, and seizures) mixed with alcohol (at 17, ergo – he was tripping balls), breaking and entering, attempted burglary, assault, aggravated assault, attempted manslaughter 3rd degree.

          When Martin left the convenience store, stoned out of his mind and hallucinating, he went into that alley and forced entry into the window of another’s home (it wasn’t his house as the early reports claimed, but some disabled old man he’d been casing out). Martin then attacked Zimmerman when Zimmerman pulled him out of the window in that dark alley. Afterward Martin continued attacking – knocking Zimmerman down, but when he straddled the semi-conscious Zimmerman, laying down back to the ground, and repeatedly slammed the back of Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk – it escalated to (at minimum) attempted manslaughter 3rd degree possibly even up to attempted murder.

          Look up the full sheriff/court case files and transcripts as well as the autopsy report (Florida is good with their public information transparency). There was so much more to this than was reported by the media.

          Remember the 3 days of testimony from that fat teenage girl who was allegedly on the phone the whole time? All that was stricken from the record because she made it all up! Once they got the phone records they found that she hadn’t made a call to Martin for several months, just a few random text messages!

          But the media quoted her like gospel! The whole thing was a sham. Even the attorney representing the Martin family, Ben Crump, was a Black Panther, Socialist, and NOI/Louis Farrakhan sycophant. He went on to represent Michael Brown and a few dozen other police/white on black shootings. He got his Johnny Cochran money.

          Martin was just another thug punk that got what was coming to him. Nothing more. I will jump to defend civil rights – when a defense is possible and an infraction made… However, I have the moral integrity to be intellectually honest with myself (and others) and observe and consider all facts.

          1. John whyne says

            Martin was a thug! The Black culture (Part of the Rap music that teaches disrespect to police, woman & whites, while it idolized drugs and a “me first” attitude) got him where he is at now. Thank you 50 cent and all the other Rappers.

          2. Mark Lahti says

            Excellent, just purely excellent post. I tried to say the same thing but you did a fantastic job. God bless and keep up the good fight.

        3. OfcShane (MGySgt USMC) says

          You don’t happen to be from NJ do you?

      6. Bob Pante says

        They were having a Burglary problem in that neighborhood. That’s what a neighborhood watch is for. What are we all supposed to sit back and be victims.

        1. Tired... says

          Bob, please note that my response was directed toward elkhunt’s picture and comment, not the article.

          1. Bob Pante says

            Trayvon was repeatedly asking for it. The repeated violence was withheld, that’s why he was in Sanford and he brought it with him. A number of lives were saved by George.

          2. Tired... says

            I have never said that Trayvon was innocent or that Zimmerman shouldn’t have defended his life. Since my comment was directed toward elkhunt’s picture and comment, it appears from your response that you believe that they are ok…and I do not.

        2. Janice says

          You are quite primitive in your thinking and drawing conclusions! You cannot become the watch.

          The civilian neighborhood watch needs to use good judgement when seeing an unknown face walking in the neighborhood. That is exactly what ails Zimmerman. His failing turned into tragedy. He was told not to do anything further by the police dispatcher.

      7. Blessed_Miarah says

        It may be in poor taste, but we all need a sense of humor. Yeah, it’s offensive but it was clearly supposed to be. Look at Howard Stern! Built a career on offensive.

        I don’t think that something like this makes any group of people look bad because it represents no one. We don’t know “elkhunt” is. He could be a comedian or even a liberal politician. Who knows?

        1. Tired... says

          I understand your point, but we have a different perspective on this.