Muslim Liberal Who Called for Jihad Says Critics are Just Scared of Her

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Muslim activist Linda Sarsour is an increasingly influential voice on the left. She was appointed co-chair of the Women’s March on Washington despite considerable backlash, and her speaking engagements attract more and more attention from a mostly-adoring left-wing press. In the meantime, she has also become a figure of controversy on the right, where her dubious views on Islam, Israel, and feminism have inspired the kinds of protests we’re more accustomed to seeing around conservative speakers.

Sarsour’s latest venture into controversy came last weekend, when she spoke at a convention for the Islamic Society of North America. There, she said it was incumbent on American Muslims to wage “jihad” against the Trump administration and to place the war on Islamophobia above any responsibility they might have to assimilate into the culture. Her critics rightfully scorned the language, pointing out the obvious fact that she sounded just a bit too much like the terrorists who have come to define her religion for so many people in this country. Some, in fact, went further, accusing Sarsour of encouraging the exact sort of religious violence that Islam should be working tirelessly to separate itself from.

Now she’s defending herself by claiming that the only reason she’s the target of so much criticism is that right-wing Americans are “afraid” of her progressive voice. In an op-ed for the Washington Post, Sarsour played the victim card while simultaneously crowning herself the champion of a groundswell movement of feminism, resistance, and American Islamic liberation:

This week, conservative media outlets took a speech I gave to the largest gathering of Muslims in America out of context and alleged that I had called for a violent “jihad” against the president. I did not. Sadly, this is not a new experience for me. Since the Women’s March on Washington, which I had the privilege of co-chairing with inspirational women from across the country, my family and I have received countless threats of physical violence. These ugly threats come from people who also spout anti-Muslim, xenophobic and white-supremacist beliefs. Their sole agenda is to silence and discredit me because I am an effective leader for progress, a Palestinian American and Brooklyn-born Muslim woman. In short, I am their worst nightmare.

[…]

Most disturbing about this recent defamation campaign is how it is focused on demonizing the legitimate yet widely misunderstood Islamic term I used, “jihad,” which to majority of Muslims and according to religious scholars means “struggle” or “to strive for.” This term has been hijacked by Muslim extremists and right-wing extremists alike, leaving ordinary Muslims to defend our faith and in some cases silenced. It sets a dangerous precedent when people of faith are policed and when practicing their religion peacefully comes with consequences.

 

It’s pretty remarkable that a liberal would be so ignorant of how words can be perceived. For a movement that has fallen in love with the term “dog whistle” to describe half of what comes out of any given Republican’s mouth, you have to be pretty far up your own posterior to be defending the word “jihad” in the year 2017. Especially when the context is this supposed streak of “Islamophobia” emanating from the White House.

But Sarsour may be right. She may be many Americans’ “worst nightmare.” Not, certainly, because she is an “effective” leader in the progressive movement, but because she is flirting with the language of violence before an audience that could easily – EASILY – mistake her call for “struggle” with a call for something much more sinister. And at a time when the left should be carefully thinking about the damage their rhetoric against Trump has already caused, it’s sad that Sarsour is so arrogant and self-righteous about her own responsibility as a public figure.

She has every right to her free speech, but she doesn’t have the right to stand above and beyond criticism.

1,468 Comments
  1. Jim Strong says

    Time that she was sent to meet her maker. What ever that would be.

    1. Uzoozy says

      JC would be so proud of you.

      1. mac12sam12 says

        Repeating yourself, Alzheimer?

        1. Uzoozy says

          Love ya

          1. jerry.rebar says

            F you sand fleas

    2. carroll wood says

      I had a uniform and a license to kill, now retired I have to live with them

      1. Jim Strong says

        Had same for 22 yrs. Still carry.

        1. carroll wood says

          me 2

  2. GusIII says

    I do not fear the Muslim. I just understand their ideology. Their beliefs are not compatible with our understanding of civilized society. They are mistaken if they think I and we will go quietly into the dying of the light. Western civilization is the beacon on the hill and the hope of mankind. This I will preserve for my children.

    1. Retired says

      Time to rid the USA of these people that do NOT want to conform to the Constitution and that Includes Lawyers along with Judges making laws from the courts .

      1. PATRICK says

        AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THE BITCH HAS NO, REPEAT NO RIGHTS….SHE IS JUST A NO GOOD PIECE OF S – – T………….PERIOD…AND BUCKOFAMA……

        1. ernldo says

          100% in agreement!

        2. Uzoozy says

          Is this civilization has taught you, it’s much better than portraited by you.
          GOOSE is cooking .
          GOD I love the people of this country

          1. alegalcitizen says

            WHAT??? Is this supposed to make sense, what in hades are you saying??

          2. Raymond Babcock says

            I think what he means is a perverted picture of your self. Goose is cooking. Portraited is a new word.

          3. curmudgeon VN Veteran says

            portraited????

            is this a form of Ebonic?

          4. Mustafa Curtess says

            I think he meant “pictured”.

          5. Raymond Babcock says

            This is a new word. A perverted picture of your self.

          6. Mustafa Curtess says

            Thanks!

          7. Mathew Molk says

            The asshole is obviously just a white hating shine that couldn’t care less about anything but getting more free stuff. Even in the black comunities here in the greater Cleveland are snotballs like UZI (The correct spelling of his murdering handle) call bastards like him “Kooties” – No working Black, Hispanic, Oriental, or White or any other ethnicity wants anything to do with pukes like him. – Best suites as a car thief or PIP.

        3. k9maiden says

          He’s the one that let them all in here, and now Trump is putting a ban on countries that send Muslim terrorist back to America after being trained in their camps. The stupid liberals are protecting the people that will kill them in a heartbeat.

          1. ted j says

            the ones who are allowing it to happen are very well protected so they have nothing to fear…and it’s a lot of demoncratic votes.

          2. evangelinebrabant says

            Christopher Hitchens said, in his last book, “The Four Horsemen of the New Apocalypse, ” that Islam is using the Liberals to achieve Islamic goals of world domination. [Liberals have been in bed with Islam since the 1920s]

            There is hope:

            When they are finished, he said, the Muslims will come for the Liberals and kill them, because the Muslims secretly despise Liberals because they do not believe in God.

            Another insanity of Liberals is that they hate Christians, who believe in God; the love Islam, a religion that preaches violence, evil and hatred, who also believe in god. (GOD?)

          3. Retired says

            Trump should have included far east countries as ISIS Muslims are invading there as well .

          4. Mathew Molk says

            Make it easy. If you haven’t cleared a COMPLETE FBI and NSA investigation you can’t come in no matter who you are. – That should cut things down to a few hundred a year or less no matter where you come form.

            Game, Set, Match.

          5. Retired says

            I see no problem with that , but it would hurt the money changers . Proof of medical shots and health history should also be a requirement like it was in the 50s for legal immigrations . Also stop the Baby delivery system allowing the mothers to give birth in the us so the child is a US citizen and then go back home .

          6. COMPU-TRON says

            You trust the FBI?

          7. Mathew Molk says

            It’s the useful idiot thing to do.

        4. Uzoozy says

          Other cheek needed, stop the hate

          1. PATRICK says

            YOU SIMPLE ASS…GO F – – K YOURSELF AND THEN GO JOIN ISIS….SEEMS LIKE THATS WHAT YOU WANT OR BELONG……WHILE YOU ARE AT IT BUCKOFAMA……………..

          2. Linda Lee says

            Well then you give THEM YOUR cheek.

          3. Bob Tidwell says

            Why don’t you tell your friends, the muslums, to “stop the hate”, we are only responding in like. What the thing aboue, you don’t understand that we will never accept the muslum life or sharia law!!!! Leave and take as many of the libtard/demorats with you!!!!

          4. Ted Crawford says

            I suppose I could put one in their cheek, but there are quicker and less painful ways to take them out than that!

          5. evangelinebrabant says

            Ignore the Muslim 12 year old: Uzoozy.

          6. will says

            Very typical they start the hate they promote the hate and then point to the victims. Fascist who call themselves anti fascist. Americans hate evil and injustice and always will. In many muslims countries the penalty for possession of a bible is death. They are the masters of hate and the mentor of Hitler

          7. Retired says

            Practice what you preach .

          8. Mathew Molk says

            I do, Going to the range tomorrow to make sure I don’t get rusty.

          9. Retired says

            Take oozy picture for a target to the range , then there is also a picture of the evil 6 .

        5. Uzoozy says

          You also need donkey pee

      2. carroll wood says

        USAF Ret, amen

        1. GusIII says

          USMC retired will keep my eyes open and will return when needed.

          1. MARIE OSER says

            GusIII, You don’t know how relieved and how good your comment makes me feel. I hope that there are millions more like you who will step up to the plate IF needed. God bless you

          2. ernldo says

            I know quite a few, being patient….but those have their limits.

          3. psychosally says

            there are millions of vets waiting to strike back-rest assured there will be no european bs here

          4. MARIE OSER says

            Thanks, that’s good to know, I’ve seen evidence of this at meetings that I’ve attended with other patriots, but these comments are reassuring.

          5. COMPU-TRON says

            A member of the Lenni Lenape would tell you how European BS is already here.

          6. Mathew Molk says

            I’m one too.

          7. ECwashr says

            Why do you think HUSSIEN Da moooslim obama called all us Veterans, “Domestic Terrorist”. I think he issued that statement on day 2 of his moooslim dictatorship? Low life scumbag anti American POS is what obama is!!!

          8. Uzoozy says

            Is this civilized society language, I thought Americans are here to sow peace and harmony,
            Love this country

          9. ECwashr says

            How about UNcivilized? That would be the mooooslims!! And the moooslims who do nothing to stop the murder and rape are just as guilty!! Everywhere moooslims show up, rape and murder follow..

          10. AKLady says

            Your religious insults embarrass America.
            There are an average of 44 murders a day in the U,S. Those crimes are not religiously motivated, nor are the majority of perpetrators Muslims.
            There are over 150,000 reported rapes each year. Since only a fraction are reported, your guess at the total is probably less than reality.

          11. ECwashr says

            “Religiously motivated”, your right by MOOOSLIMS!! Ok a round of applause by the Obama USEFUL IDIOT here!! She almost got something right. Your just like your satanic baby murdering hero obama, a PROLIFIC LIAR!!! Most murders occur in Chicago and Detroit, both run by Liberal demoRats for years!! Detroit, for over 55 years and it is the sh*t hole of the nation!! Obama did his best to make all of America into Detroit, and here you are doing your best to help him!! Unbelievable ignorance!! ” AAAA yea I’ll help you lower my standard of living and my families, whatever you say because Rachel Maaadow said its ok”!! I’ve seen you on the History Channel standing in the streets of Berlin in the 1930s, “SEIG HEIL”, now its, “SIEG HEIL MEIN FUHRER OBAMA”!! Iv’e seen you in the Koolaid Lines at Jonestown, how did you escape by the way? YOUR A FOOL!! If Obama is soooo great, why did he leave Chicago after years of being Mr Community Organizer/Senator with the worse murder rate in the nation? Black on black doesn’t matter to liberals, I know. Also left Chicago with the WORST education system in the nation!! And what do the nimrod Obama USEFUL IDIOTS say, “HEY, lets put this guy into the white house, who cares if he has NO accomplishments or could not run a hot dog stand”!! Dont ever write me again Liberal “I HATE AMERICA ” FOOL!! I will just delete, you are not worth one second of my precious time with your LIES, pro mooooslim ways and excuses for Liberal policy failures!! Oh by the way, you love mooooslims so much, go live with them or have the obama “refugees” stay at your place!! Of course not because your a HYPOCRITE!!! F U LIBERAL DUMBASS FOOL!!!

          12. AKLady says

            You are well brainwashed.
            The hate in your spew is very apparent, as is your bigotry.
            Your ignorance is amazing.

            Chicago and Detroit have led the murder stats for well over 100 years.

            Now its, “SIEG HEIL MEIN FUHRER TRUMP. You are more than a little out of date. Heir Trump has been in office six months. He as already tried to violate the Constitution 30 times.

          13. alegalcitizen says

            Well YOUR fellow Muslims are not here to sow peace, and that’s NOT what the Koran espouses, they say to LIE and cheat the infidel, and to KILL us, I don’t call that peaceful.

          14. Uzoozy says

            You need to take high doses of Prozac to keep your sanity, check in to a clinic.

          15. alegalcitizen says

            All Prozac does is make you a zombie, I don’t need it, because I can READ and SEE what the Muslims are up to and it isn’t “peace”.

          16. COMPU-TRON says

            How often do you speak to local Muslims?

          17. Mathew Molk says

            I don’t

          18. COMPU-TRON says

            Than you have no point of reference and should shut your ignorant mouth.

          19. Bill says

            No offense intended, but you really do not have the authority to decide how people are allowed or required to learn what they learn, or to issue a verdict that they know nothing if they do not learn in the way that you prescribe. This is not the first time that you have played this card. Mathew happens to be right on track. I know plenty of Muslims, and many people who deal with Muslims, and I have a copy of the Kor’an, if that is what you need to hear. Meanwhile, though, the decades of terrorism that you have been hearing about in the mainstream media do not happen to be “fake news,” at least in their basic message. Speaking with local Muslims, taking a leftist political position, or simply hiding in denial from what has been happening, do not in any way change the reality of jihad, a war of Islamic conquest over non-Islamic societies that has continued amid ebbs and flows of strategic opportunity since around 700 AD.

          20. COMPU-TRON says

            Thank you Bill. Someone who refuses to even speak to another human being because of their imagined crimes (or the crimes of another person who is completely unrelated) has earned no respect from me, nor has someone like Matthew who personally attacks me with no provocation.

            I appreciate your opinion, thank you. You are eloquent and reasoned. He is a violent, ignorant bigot.

            I would ask you politely to reconsider my “leftist” political position. I am registered independent, often vote Republican. As I have reconsidered my pigeonholing of you as a rightwing nutjob when presented proof as such.

            Also please consider that someone like Matthew has no authority to tell someone like me that I am “anti-American” and to “get out of his country” based on my simple question or a perceived political disagreement. I take reasonable people seriously. I take loud mouthed boors, well, much less so.

            Thank you.

          21. Bill says

            Admittedly, Compu-tron, there is such a flow of varied opinions here that is is not always easy to remember details about the people who write. If you say that you are not a leftist, that is good enough for me, and please hold me accountable if I ever get that wrong again. With you, I must admit that I started out half with what you were saying and half with what someone else was saying to you, so that was a cold turkey entrance.

            Here, I don’t seem to find what Mathew said that struck out at you. Maybe I am not seeing the whole discussion or something, so once again I enter cold turkey. I’m sorry if that is happening again.

            To get to the heart of the matter, I’m not sure of the disagreement that you and Mathew are having. Being a Republican or a Libertarian are hardly silver bullets to being a partiotic and responsible American, but that has a lot more credibility than when an avowed Marxist (or now so often by proxy, an avowed Democrat) claims to have America’s well-being at heart. The main dividing lines that I see are these:

            – Those who are leftist but well-meaning (the more typical, suicidal “liberals”), who need only to become informed about how anti-American and anti-liberty leftism cannot help but be. There is a reason for patience with people who are in flux about what leftism means.
            – Dedicated leftists, who really believe in either European socialism or Soviet-style Communism. To the extent that these people are insistent in their error, rather than open to learning, these deserve no patience or very much courtesy, as these are only obnoxious trolls.
            – Those who discuss in order to learn, who deserve to hear all sides and find the truth somewhere present.
            – Those who are pro-American, interested in defending our still somewhat free country from the recognized threat of leftism.

            You can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you and Mathew may both be in the last group, where I also believe that I stand. So, I am wondering a little what we are disputing. If you would be willing to explain your own stance a bit further, I’d like to know. Having a misunderstanding of what we are talking about doesn’t help us. Also, when we can get past either just grunting or finding out who is the toughest guy on the block, sometimes we can find helpful and informative things to say. I believe that you see all of this, so please straighten me out.

          22. COMPU-TRON says

            Hi Bill,

            Matthew commenced a series of vulgar personal attacks on me on a different thread, making over a dozen hateful comments on posts that were not addressed to him, or even having anything to do with him. I show respect to those who are willing to enter a reasonable discussion, not to jingoistic would-be bullies.

            As to your points, I would say I am closest to the third option. I’ve lived in countries (UK, Japan, Netherlands) which most would consider “leftist” and found that in some aspects the quality of life is much higher (I am born American, BTW and am a citizen, so I do admit I am infuriated by people telling me to get out of their country. Oddly, that seems to only happen with conservatives). I worry much more about being exploited by big business and financial institutions .

            At heart I try to approach each person as an individual; they need not be defined by their religion, color etc. The reason I asked a poster (not Matthew, as it is) if they ever spoke to Muslims is to try to highlight that while there are certainly extremist Muslims, there are violent extremists of every religion and no religion. I would hate to assume my neighbor, a refugee from Egypt and a nurse raising three children) is a terrorist just because of the name or ideology.

            Thanks again Bill for your civility.

          23. Bill says

            I appreciate your thoughtful reply, Compu-tron. Here is to peace between you and Mathew, then, if that might work.

            It is interesting how complex a discussion can be. If a person lives happily in Sweden, where a friend told me that everything is free because taxes are so high (I don’t particularly know the situation), then such a person can become content with his surroundings and also with the degree that the government pays his way. We could probably expect such a person to say that America is okay, but it would be just a little better if it adopted socialism. So, such a person wants the best for America, but is also a bit on the fence about just what might be best.

            A person born, raised, and permanently located in America can have a similar, opposite experience. Having seen what America is and being uninformed about alternate cultures, languages, governments, and economics, such a person may be uninformed about things that could in theory be helpful to America, and thus such a person may oppose any change at all. Such a person is likely to be labeled “conservative.” No fence sitting, there.

            You mention that your worry is about being exploited by big business and financial institutions, and there is no way I will argue with that. It therefore appears that any differences between us may be a matter of priority. I would say to be cautious with regard to any human organization, as the sources of human corruption seem truly endless. However, my twist on this is that I see corporate abuses as very dangerous, but government abuses as being overwhelming. Although a corporation can make life very hard by manipulation of people’s needs and assets, a corporation of itself cannot legally force a person to do anything, or deprive a person of freedom, property, or life. Government can, and if the citizens lose enough power, government always will. This is why the Founders of America worked so hard to limit the powers of government, although in our many years of relaxed enjoyment of liberty we sometimes forget how bad things can become in places where freedom is an elusive dream.

            As for Islam, one probably shoud not ignore quotes such as this simply factual statement from Winston Churchill:

            “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism
            deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity
            and sanctity.

            “The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
            in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
            proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
            raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science—the science against which it had vainly struggled—the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

            I absolutely oppose having conflict with a person who does not want conflict, and this includes many Moslems. Like you, there are Moslems in my life, and it is simply unfair to put a false label on anyone. Meanwhile, both government and Islam are what they are, and I would want to keep a watchful eye on both of them. There is what people do when they are being nice, there is what they do when they think particular circumstances demand it, there is what they do when they feel free and easy to be themselves in a natural way, and there is what they do when they think others are watching. There may be more variations, but in any even, it does not seem wise to assume that anyone who has any amount of power can be ignored, with an assumption that they will be nice and nothing else.

            So, that is a brief explanation of why I would urge anyone to keep a healthy skepticism of governent and of Islam, as the big topics of the day. You just don’t want to be “code white” when things suddenly take a challenging turn. Just when these things seem harmless and one’s guard is down, that could be an “interesting moment.”

            It may be obvious, but I am not cautioning anyone against American government as it should be. That government loves and respects its citizens, protects their land, property, freedom, and persons, and always votes for what is best for its people. However, since that government barely exists, if at all, I am cautioning that the government that we have is right on the edge of being a leftist dictatorship, a deadly, devouring spider. Trump is a reprieve, but it is amazing how many people want the government to take care of them, bread and circuses all the way, and they seem to actually believe that the government would do this. Reality and history say that, when the burden of taking care of people gets to be too much, the solution is to allow poverty to increase, or to have fewer people. You’d think that this truth might bother someone, but it’s harder if one has to choose between avoiding genocide and ensuring a monthly government check. The check usually wins.

            Thank you, Comp-Tron, for your civility.

          24. COMPU-TRON says

            Post-script: Matthew’s comments to me have been removed….

          25. Mustafa Curtess says

            If I may: I don’t think that the average leftist thinks far enough ahead to grasp that their theories can only end up as Socialism or Communism. I suspect that overwhelmingly they would deny it if you pointedly asked them. (I have had one tell me that “due to “American Exceptionalism” we can make Communism succeed – where everyone else has failed”.) (Neither side holds the patent on arrogance, it seems.)
            Equally scary to perceive that if the arch-Conservatives actually get what they want – it will be a totalitarian situation that for all practical purposes would be equally horrible.

          26. Bill says

            Good point about people thinking ahead, Mustafa. I have heard that line, that Communism would be great if only it were properly handled. That’s like promising a nice tyranny instead of the ones that the world has always seen. Yes, the arrogance is way up there.

            As a conservative, I can’t disagree with your concern about conservatives. In fairness, though, add to it any and every other group of humans. Whenever any person or group of people gets into control, they first of all believe that they received control because they hold the right and winning point of view, which gained them the necessary support and circumstances. Secondly, they like to share their knowledge of what is right and winning with everyone else, so mandates to conform to that concept are sent out quite early. Thirdly, the party in control will believe anything positive that is said about it, and it will begin to consider itself infallible. After that, every “good idea” becomes a mandate, even if it reverses an earlier idea.

            This is why people should be very hesitant to put their trust in parties and movements. Always check and be sure that they really stand for the values that you can justify. When you no longer control your situation, but instead you entrust it to others, you can expect to live under totalitarianism of some kind.

          27. Mustafa Curtess says

            Bingo! I never would have considered you what I consider an “arch Conservative”.
            You write and express yourself so much better than I do. (Plus you don’t have the baggage that comes with a Muslim given name.) I definitely lean quite far right of center. Likewise I don’t feel any driving allegiance to the party – and I have no qualms about questioning policies that trouble me. (Another good way to get labelled “liberal” if one dares to.)
            Just because I enthusiastically supported Trump – I by no means WORSHIP him.
            I do notice that some Americans get drawn into “personality cults” (especially liberals, I think.) Sadly- I’m convinced that a lot of voters would follow their favorite entertainment celebrity’s lead.) I can see no other reason to have voted for Hilary in such great number. After watching the debates carefully – I never saw any suggestion of a “platform” or any policy that her voters could expect – except maybe “more of the same”. (Not surprising – considering how well she did by it – eh?)

          28. Bill says

            When a person intentionally stands for ethics, freedom, responsibility, truth, and kindness, it is amazing how uncomplicated many decisions become. There is absolutely no need to worship or blindly follow any personality, once a person knows his values. Of course, how those values become defined is wide open to possibilities, but with “luck,” truth prevails.

            Well, we do live in interesting times, don’t we? Nice to have days in which it doesn’t seem like the world is about to end, mixed in with those with which we are not so sure!

          29. Mustafa Curtess says

            Hmmm. Your first sentence very much describes my attitude – once I cleared the distraction of religion from my consciousness.
            Fortunately I can’t ever remember a day when I felt that “the world is about to end”. I do not think that mankind has the ability to do that.

          30. Mustafa Curtess says

            Get used to it! It is their stock answer to anything that challenges them to THINK – or to intelligently defend their hateful, war-mongering, theories.

          31. COMPU-TRON says

            Brother, you know I am used to it 🙂 Have fun on your weekend.

          32. michael aijlman says

            I don’t know if you read things that you’ve posted days later, but on the off chance that you do, I think you may want to reconsider your comment about hateful, war mongering theories. Since you have the name Mustafa, I’m going to assume you may very well be a Muslim — not a racist or making an ignorant statement — so don’t go there. I knew a guy with the same name, who was a Muslim. It is neither hateful or war-mongering to want to defend yourself when there are so many attacks on both the infidel & also innocent Muslims who just happen to be in the wrong place when terrorist attacks take place.
            Every Muslim knows that they are obliged to follow the dictates of Muhammad, which is to kill the infidel. Many Christians who left Libya, attempting to reach Europe, never saw Europe because they were thrown overboard, not by jihadist’s or terrorists, but by Muslims who were defending their faith. Yeah, a lot of Muslims in this country have rejected Islam & have become Americanized, but we worry about the ones who haven’t been. We’re neither of those things you’ve accused us of. We’re wary, & rightfully so. You know very well, I’m sure, of what Islam stands for, & rightfully so. There is a good alternative to Islam, & that is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Consider the true God of the universe.

          33. Mustafa Curtess says

            True that I have been Muslim , so I know somewhat more about it than those who just repeat negative hearsay about it because it is popularly welcomed to do so at the present time.
            I try to encourage everyone old enough to remember (or research it a bit) that about 40 years ago there was a well-established American Muslim community that nobody really noticed and had no reason to do so. They built their Mosques pretty much when and where they needed them, and in general participated in American life just like any other community.
            Same thing internationally. Aside from the friction caused by the establishment of Israel (which the Arabs naturally resent and resist to the same extent that we Americans would if the Jews if Europe had been given – say – part of the state of Virginia in which to create a “national home”) would be doing.
            But aside from that – diplomatic relations were good, business was thriving, Arab countries were modernizing culturally and materially, our giant oil companies were fattening on the profits taken from Arab oil, and (Christian) Americans were welcome to travel, reside, and work at high-paying jobs (both for those giant oil companies and the Arab countries – as well. And we were not concerned by any serious need by any Muslim country in the M.E.to establish a nuclear arms inventory to defend itself against American and European interests.
            What happened to reverse that? (Construct a time-line what happened here – following something important that our government had done there).
            And no, Mr ailjman – no Muslims were “rejecting Islam” in order to “become Americans”. (Among other things – our Constitution had never, and does not, require the rejection of anyone’s religious belief order to “become American” – or to have any religious belief at all.)
            I challenge you to evidence that “hate and war-mongering” are not at the bottom of this – or that Muslims originated or instigated it.

          34. Mustafa Curtess says

            Once established – Islam has never expanded except as a result of attack. It’s been under renewed and determined attack for about 4 decades now, and voila’! -Europeans and Americans are experiencing the outcome.
            Those hordes of refugees flooding in are not motivated by “conquest”. They are the direct result of foreign intervention and attack on their homelands.. (The USA and Its NATO puppet are militarily irresistable.) When this all began – how many of you petitioned your government to “cease and desist” – as a total, extravagant, waste of our treasure and our blood? No WAY! – You thought it was the best idea since sliced bread!
            You and I both know that the easiest solution is the “final solution” (and many of you are outspoken in your enthusiasm to participate in it). But modern history has had no tolerance for genocide – and the leaders of them always end up on the gallows, in prison, or in disgrace. Think twice about what you wish for.

          35. Bill says

            So, you are saying that, from 700 AD to around 1600 AD, roughly the largest expansion of the Ottoman Empire, Islam was a religion of conquest, but then during the next few centuries, when it was being gradually chased out of Europe, it went pacifist, and for the last 40 years it has been the victim. I don’t know that I can accept this reasoning, but I’ll ponder it.

            I’m not sure when you are referring to, that “all this began,” or why you think that whatever that was, was a great idea, or why you think that I would be any kind of party to genocide, but I’ll welcome you to take another pass at that part. I couldn’t find much to work with in that section.

            Best wishes.

          36. Mustafa Curtess says

            I wouldn’t try to pin it down to 700. It was barely a force to be reckoned with that early.
            There is a body of thought that many of Ghengis Kahn’s legionairres brought Islam into Mongolia and the Indian sub-continent after contacting it while advancing the “Silk Road” for trade into the Middle East. Ghenghis seemed to accept it as a stabilizing influence – and never overtly suppressed it). Certainly no Muslim army was “spreading it by the sword ” in Ghengis’ Mongol empire! It was well-established there by the 1200’s. (True that I was never devoted to it enought to study what little history can reveal about it. It has always been de’ rigeur for European historians to be negative (or dismissive, at best) about Islam, and the few Muslim historians weren’t very well recognised and studied. Since Islam had been in extreme southern Europe for supposedly 600 years (there, in Turkey, and the Balkans essentially as an outpost to discourage European crusaders) it was a relatively stagnant period. Muslims driven into N. Afrca seemed to push further south into “Spanish Sahara”, Mauritania, and Niger (possibly seeking to pioneer a new home for themselves. (Another example of expansion under stress?)
            Don’t pin me down too closely on this – I tried to accept Islam as I found it – and its history wasn’t of much interest one way or another. On the heels of my miserable youth in the hands of Christians – I was fairly “tentative” about Islam. It did make a great deal more sense – both scripturally and culturally – but in the end it proved to be the same superstitious hoax to dominate and control my mind that Christianity had been.
            Back to the “spread” of Islam – it appears to have reached Indonesia by traders. It is well to bear in mind that Arab mariners were trading around the Indian ocean, China, and into the fringes of the Pacific (Indonesia) while Europeans still believed the earth was flat and the edge was just S. of the Azores. It appears thus on navigational charts of the period. And don’t forget that Columbus thought he would get to India – and thought that he had found it. (Hence the natives were “Indians” – to this day.)
            (Imagine the Crusaders’ dismay when instead of finding the source of the silks and spices the Arabs were trading around the Mediterranean – all they found was a VERY hostile desert. (The “Crusades weren’t all about religion – far from it,)

          37. Bill says

            I appreciate the information, Mustafa. I wouldn’t underestimate the forces of Islam in 700, though, because in 711 the Moors took over most of Spain. Can’t have been too rag tag to do that, right? And they definitely used swords.

          38. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yeah! That’s something that superstitious Muslims consider a “miracle” (that those rag-tags could achieve so much, in the face of more numerous, better-equipped, better-organized Christians – on their own turf.) Several similar instances of things like that. In one of the very earliest battles (under attack by far more numerous Koreish pagans – according to the Koran) they were facing certain annihilation – and the battle reversed because of a sudden sandstorm. (If you have ever experienced a M.E. sandstorm – you will understand how that is possible.)

          39. Bill says

            I must admit, it is pretty “lucky” to cross an ocean strait with troops, take over a whole country (about 600 mi. north to south), cross the Pyrenees, and up around Toulouse at last be driven back by the French and cooperating Spanish troops. I kind of doubt that it was a Sunday picnic that just happened to take over a whole country, even though the Visigoths in Spain were fighting among themselves at the time. Accidentally stepped over into Spain, got lucky, and stayed in power for 781 years. That’s a good day, all right.

            I hope you are having a great trip.

          40. Mustafa Curtess says

            You don’t see any luck in a defeated army fleeing southward to its homeland – that was still able to stop off and establish a dominating presence across the entire Mediterranian Shore of Europe and around into Portugal(It wasn’t just Spain, at first) that couldn’t be dislodged for 600 years? I’m not sure that your timeline is entirely correct – but close enough for purposes of discussion. You probably know more about it than I do – since it interests you more. I’m not so sure that they did cross the sea and enter as a beachhead. It was my understanding (that they had crossed the Straights of Bosphorus and went up thru the Balkans. Incidentally: Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, etc still have significant indigenous Muslim populations remaining from that time. (They hardly ever chop any heads or hands off.). One would think that if they had been forced to convert – they would have reverted after being “liberated” by the Crusaders? I think I know why – but I could be wrong, and I would welcome another explanation. Oddly – the Spanish Inquisition was unable to totally eradicate Islam from among the indigenous Spanish population. They managed to hang on somehow – and are still there.
            We were acquainted with one, who was a Spanish diplomat in Libya – and he introduced us to others.

          41. Bill says

            Just to avoid pointless wandering, you can take to the bank that Spain was invaded in 711 AD, and Granada was reclaimed by Spain in 1492 AD. Please check the timeline, if you want, because I can’t change it, any more than that Columbus discovered America in 1492.

            Let’s also not get too deep into whether Portugal was part of Spain at that time. Let’s just say that by “Spain” we mean the Iberian Penninsula. Portugal, Aragon, Castile, Navarra, Catalonia, and so on, were all separate kingdoms, and in 711 Spain was not a unified country. I trust this will work?

            Anyway, it is fine if you are interested in the history of this, and fine if you are not. All I am trying to say is that, okay, Iberia was intentionally invaded by the Moslem Moors in 711 AD, and it wasn’t an accident, and it wasn’t unintentional, and it wasn’t a “lucky” turn of events. If you think that was peaceful behavior by the Moors, or that it was brought on by something that the inhabitants of Iberia did against the Moors, then you will need to write the story on that. In real history, it just doesn’t go that way. Real history recognizes that it was the first Islamic invasion of Europe, followed by large amounts of Muslim aggression after that. With that in mind, it is at last fair to talk about the Crusades, which were an effort to repel the continually invading Moslems, whose holdings in Europe were only taken back in the early 20th century. Of course, this was all a very friendly, peaceful back and forth, and the Muslims ended up in the middle of Europe only by invitation. Well, of course not. Muslims have a mandate of conquest written into their doctrines.

          42. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yes – no challenge to your timeline, and good that you accurately describe it as Iberian peninsula. I mentioned Prtugal mainly to indicate that The Moors at one time did have an outpost on the Atlantic and not the Med only.
            Note “outpost” because that was the only original intent for Muslim – held territory in Europe. It does not appear to have been an arrack on Iberia for any reason. An early warning presence was needed. No Crusade could take Arabia by surprise. History is for some reason vague about the “Crusades” – qualifying only major ones beginning in the 1000’s and ending in the late 1400’s. But there were minor ones launched from Jerusalem agains the Muslims much earlier – which the Arabs regarded as Christian Crusades against Islam. All were successfully repelled – except Isabella’s successful attack on Granada (which I think you accurately pointed out was a kingdom separate from her Aragon – and was in fact a conquest to extend her power.)
            The failure of those Crusades was largely due to the effectiveness of the Muslim outposts in Europe. They occurred during the 600 year period that Islam had significant presence in Europe.
            The permanent occupation of Constantinople was the result of the final Crusade I think. Twice before it had hosted Crusaders where they organized and launched Crusades into Arabia, been repelled, and Constantinople left alone on the promise that they would not do it again. After it exhausted the Arabs’ patience the thirdctime Salahuddin was faced with the choice to slaughter its inhabitants and raze it to the ground – or give its citizens the ootiin to acceptbIslam and live as an Islamic city – which they chose to do (sometime in the mid-1400’s ? I think thevChristians abandoned their strategy of crusades once Constantinople was firmly and permanently part of Islam.

          43. Bill says

            Good stuff, Mustafa, and interesting views. Just a few observations.

            My next door neighbor might object if I took over his house on the pretext that some kind of “early warning presence is needed.” That explanation does not make my presence in his house anything different from an act of aggression. I presume that the early warning idea means that Arabs were able to keep better tabs on European plans once they invaded Europe.

            Since the bulk of the Crusades fit between 1095 and 1291, Constantinople fell on May 29, 1453, and the Islamic presence in central Europe developed from 1354 (the Ottomans crossing at Gallipoli) until 1526, it probably can’t be quite correct that a Muslim presence in central Europe in any way interfered with the Crusades. Of course, Islam in Iberia basically kept Iberia out of the Crusades.

            Not sure what you mean by “No Crusade could take Arabia by surprise.” Maybe you mean that a surprise could not be allowed by Islamic interests, rather than that there was ever any difficulty in launching surprise attacks. It seems that a surprise attack is never impossible; being watchful only helps one not get caught off guard.

            Isabella (of Castile) and Ferdinand (of Aragon) married to unite their kingdoms, and then they proceeded to bring other kingdoms into their sphere as an effort to unite Spain. So, yes, you could say for sure that they were expanding their territory. Another plausible view is that, in driving the Moors out of Granada (1492), they saw themselves as expelling foreign invaders from land that rightfully belonged to Europeans, but you seem to have the view that it rightfully belonged to the Moors. I guess we will continue to see that matter differently, just as occurs every time the question comes up of whether land properly belongs to its original inhabitants or it properly belongs to its latest conquerors.

            Surely you are not saying that Islamic conquests of territory are intended to be temporary. That suggests that, as of a certain date, they would have left on their own, but there is no evidence of that, that I can see. Not quite sure of your meaning.

            It is news to me that the conquest of Constantinople was an act of Muslim “exhausted patience” due to the Crusades. After all, it was besieged by the Sassanids and Avars in 626, and then atttacked repeatedly by Arabian forces after that. The forst defeat of Constantinople, though, came not from Arabs, but from the Forth Crusade. Perhaps it is like opening a jar: you can really go after the contents once someone loosens the lid for you. Anyway, Islam was after Constantinople for a long time, and I have no doubt that it would have welcomed an earlier victory. It didn’t win only because, all of a sudden, it wanted to. Incidentally, the fall of Constantinople coincides quite closely with the introduction of gunpowder into Europe, and that might just be a factor in why the Muslim “frustration” was suddenly so successful, since Moslems had this weapon from Eastern sources while Europeans still did not. Constantinople, as far as I know, was never left alone by the Turks on the promise that they would behave. Since they had never been conquered, they did not need to give a tribute of either wealth or promises, at least until they could no longer hold the line, and by then it was too late for any promises to make a difference.

            It is very euphemistic to give Saladin the “quandary” of whether to slaughter the inhabitants and
            raze Constantinople or to give its citizens the option to accept Islam
            and live as an Islamic city. I’d have to check on the details, but I’m pretty sure Saladin did just fine, with no emotional stress to speak of, in deciding whom to kill and whom to let live. If he gave people the option to live by accepting Islam or slavery, that seems like pretty standard fare from Islam, and of course in means that he would have a few subjects to rule over instead of only cadavers. I trust you will agree that this is standard Islamic policy, to decide whether to let people live in the first place, and then to give them the standard conditions of conversion or oppressed submission as ways to avoid being killed, maimed, or whatever. I understand that a popular way to maim “infidels” has been to cut off the right hand and the left foot, thus creating a cripple extraordinaire.

            So, let’s see, what is our goal here? If it is to say that Islam is not a religion of conquest, that doesn’t seem to be working. Nor if it is to suggest that Moslems did not wage invasive war against Europe without European provocation. Nor if it is to suggest that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, respect, kindness, gentleness, generosity, or any other particularly “nice” adjectives that I can think of. It is very oppressive to its own people, as well as to anything that is not Islamic. Nor if it is to suggest that Western acceptance of Moslem refugees today leads to any kind of cooperative and civilized solution for problems between them and the rest of the world. Even as “refugees,” they segregate themselves and attack people in the host countries. I guess I’ll need to let you suggest a premise that will hold up, because I don’t see anything redeeming yet.

            I don’t believe that I am putting my finger on the scale in any way, except that I believe I am telling the truth about the history of conflict between Islam and Western culture. Very simply, Islam started the war against everyone else back around 700, and despite lulls in the conflict, Islam has continued that same war until this very day. So, I’m open to the possibility of something good being found in Islam, but I’m not seeing it so far. On a high level, I can appreciate its stated desire to serve God in a true and righteous way, but then it seems to fail in making God more highly honored and in giving humanity any pratical happiness in life, except for the wealthy caliphs, sheiks, and grand viziers, and their modern, despotic equivalents, all of whom seem to do do well enough with their worldly pleasures. (Yes, I agree, Christianity has its share of similar exploiters, whether they wear pretty robes and live in religious palaces or they hold microphones on TV and live on vast private estates. Such people, like political rulers, do not mind if most people struggle while they live in luxury and security.)

          44. Mustafa Curtess says

            Stop trying to pin me down with your naive, perfect world nonsense. It was a brutal world and it’s still a brutal world, and everybody wants to be powerful enough to live by his own rules. Yes! The Arab’s first priority was to protect themselves fron the Crusaders – who wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth – and still do.
            Ever heard of “mission creep”. (Study the US in Afghanistan to understand it.) Same thing probably happened to the Arabs in Europe. Go for one reason and stay for others.
            Religion! Religion! Religion! The humanitarian nightmare!
            ShucksYes! If I’m in a gang war or a bunch of vigilantes are hunting me down, and I need your house to hide or barricade myself in – I will take it (and it’s darned nice to know that you are committed to “verbal complaint” – so I won’t have to blow your delusional ass away (mainly because the noise would attract unwelcome attention).
            Or maybe I’ll turn my American psyche loose – and take it just because I WANT to.
            Then I will ignore your “verbal protest” and burn it down when I leave – just so YOU cant’ live in it any more. (I’m going to treat you just like I treat those dirty, heathen, barbarian, rag-heads! And just MAYBE you will be able to appreciate their position.) Your “manifesto” is perfect for me – so I’m going to follow it verbatim.

          45. Bill says

            I have not yet talked about a perfect world, so you are free to calm down, if you would like to do that. Clearly, you are in an emotional state and unable to address any specifics or stay with the topic at hand, so I’ll give you a break. Your last post is only an angry and disoriented rant, throwing around cliches that do not relate to any practical reality or begin to address any problem. Enjoy the lake, anyway, and be sure not to try entering my home at any time, for your safety. You are not talking very nicely; you sound like a good Islamist right now, and that entitles you to stew in private about your personal issues and raving biases.

          46. Mustafa Curtess says

            You only describe a perfect, delusional world. To me – that is “talking about it”.
            “No practical reality”? So you think that 4 destroyed countries and a million dead bodies are not a “realty”. I stick with the “topic at hand” as well as your convoluted reasoning allows. Analogies sail right past your head – don’t they?
            You introduced the analogy of taking someone’s house – and I built on it to make my point. I think you regretted that analogy because it was perfect to illustrate exactly what has happened to Somalia. (And, no – I wouldn’t even think about going into any house unless invited – so no need to threaten me.)
            I’m not actually angry or excited – just a little exasperated maybe.
            Anyway – let’s agree to disagree and not waste any more time on each other OK?

          47. Bill says

            I am concerned that you seem to hold that problems are better solved by killing people than by talking and working things out. I would not imagine that reaching agreements is delusional and suited only to a perfect world. Yes, we definitely disagree on that!

            My home invasion scenario put Spain in my mind, not Somalia. As I recall, Somalia had something to do with pirates going out and attacking ships or something peaceful like that.

            Anyway, no harm, no foul. Do have a good weekend.

          48. Mustafa Curtess says

            This post causes me to wonder if we are even talking about the same things!
            Are you talking about things on a personal, neighborhood, or community level? If you are – of course I agree about solving social problems with discussion! Surely you don’t think I would consider violence because my neighbor blocks my driveway, his dog digs up my flower bed, or he has a loud party next door that continues into the wee hours of the morning!
            I am talking in terms of international affairs. I wasn’t using destroyed countries as an analogy for problems arising locally – or even nationally.
            And the “piracy” thing. Is that all that you know about Somalia? Man! No wonder we weren’t making sense to each other. (The pirates were a couple of years after the destruction and in the absence of a functioning government in control of the country.)
            Never mind – now that it is clear that you are implacably hostile to anything about Muslims – it is pointless to start over. You mentioned looking for solutions (again I thought you meant the international situation that has backfired as the phenominum of “terrorism”.) It is internationally inspired and financed – not a product of the American Muslim community and is certainly not an expression of a complaint of any kind here.
            There IS no “solution” to that – since it is based on paranoia among the extreme Christian community over the mere presence of an Americam Muslim Community.
            Some biker gang or vigilante group will attack Muslims, they will defend themselves, people will be killed, and if bad enough – the National Guard will be sent in to put a stop to it – and some thugs will go to prison. The fed govt. will NOT tolerate a race war.
            Until then – the Muslims will go about their lives – and the bigots will continue to build up sream like a pressure cooker. Just because the FBI and Homeland Secrity haven’t announced any program or policy, or mentioned it in any way – they are on top of the festering situation. There’s more – but considering your hostile attitude, you do not want (or need) to hear it.

          49. Bill says

            I didn’t want to answer this post too quickly, because you need to enjoy your time out. But since the conversation goes on, I’ll share my thoughts.

            Talk is admittedly a tentative step, because of itself it doesn’t really do anything real. Inside the mind, though, it changes understandings, builds trust, and reaches agreements (or sometimes exactly the opposite). This is true no matter at what level the conversation occurs. It is not different if two individuals converse, or if two or more governments converse.

            Talk is the norm by which governments reach agreements. There is a huge system of ambassadors and venues, spokespersons and news conferences. Talk makes the ideological world go around. Meanwhile, talk only creates situations in the mind, and these may be honesty or lies, feasible or unfeasible, genuine intentions or casual speculations.

            Talk at all levels opens the way for agreements to be reached. A good agreement is clear and open to verification, making it easy to see whether it is being kept by all parties. This is also true at every level, whether between individuals or between governments.

            I do not see why you would think that conversation and reaching agreements works at about any level except internationally. This does not seem to agree with daily reality, where governments make agreements with each other and proceed then to verify that the agreements are being kept. This does not always work with perfection, as it is human nature to seek secret advantages, but I believe that it works quite well in general; otherwise, it would not be a preferred approach to international relations. Even Moslems could try it out, rather than cut off innocent people’s heads and bring down tall buildings. What is specifically missing here, is some kind of evidence that agreements worked out between countries simply don’t work (no good even if established), or that any country in the world does not have access to seek an agreement with another country (can’t be established). These things don’t seem true, simply because negotiation is the standard tool between nations for officially resolving problems.

            As for the situation that we have with Muslims, there are indeed solutions, although these may conflict with what is predictable. The solution is that people (mainly Muslims, but others as well), stop killing people and instead work out their problems in a civil way. Everyone wants what they believe belongs to them, plus a little more, so no one is going to get everything that they want. Sometimes, two people are in a lifeboat, and the choice is either that they try to throw each other overboard or that they respect each other’s right to exist and realize from that mere fact that things need to be shared. So, the solution is, immutably, a matter of compromise, while the alternative, much excercised so far, is perpetual conflict.

            To reach an agreement requires first that people identify what they want most and what they are willing to trade. Then, an agreement must define what people will and will not do, own, say, etc., as needed, and set forth a process for reaching the agreed state of affairs. Finally, people need to stay with the agreement, and not ignore it to go off and do something contrary to it.

            If “talk” is not able to work, it is only because people are not able to reach or keep an agreement.
            – A person may be so emotional that he can’t think straight, so angry that he can’t put ideas into words, and rational discussion with him is not possible.
            – A person may not have the mental discipline, the natural ability to think clearly, to decide what he wants, or to stay with a decision that has been made, so he never achieves a clear personal understanding of what is to be established and what can be traded away.
            – Some things may be of such high apparent importance that both parties want them, and nothing seems available to trade in its place. (This is the hard work in reaching a compromise, because one begins by wanting to take everything and give nothing.)
            – If people are able to get so far as to find room for agreement, then they compromise as needed, make a clear agreement, and put it in clear language.
            – Finally, each party reads the agreement accurately, asks questions, makes adjustments as needed, and proceeds to keep his word.

            I see nothing magical about how this can work for individuals and communities, but it can’t work for governments (a notion contrary to standard practice). This being the case, unless you can show that it isn’t, the question is then, which among the above steps in making and keeping an agreement is a Moslem incapable of performing? Naturally, if a Moslem is entirely able to perform the steps, but does not, then it must be true that the Moslem is choosing what is ugly in preference to anything else.

            You can of course correct this analysis in any way to make it better reflect the truth, if the truth has in any way been overlooked here. I don’t see how anyone’s “bigotry” prevents Moslems from thinking soberly, seeking real agreements with other national interests, and getting the job done. Meanwhile, their continual choice to be hostile and offended, and to kill instead of negotiate, would seem to demonstrate clearly that this is their preferred way of dealing with other people. Some of the people in the lifeboat seem to think that it is their place to throw everyone else overboard. Hmm. What could possibly go wrong with that?

            Yes, I know. All of this just shows how much of a bigot I am. You can land on that spot and stay there, if you like.

          50. Mustafa Curtess says

            Be honest. Their “mandate for conquest” is no different from the “Christian evangelist missionary” obligation/compulsion.
            Get Real! All religions are so paranoid – they can’t rest until they’ve infected everyone around themselves. Subliminally, they mistrust anybody that isn’t.

          51. Bill says

            Sure, I’ll be honest, This is the kind of stuff that no Christian believes that God calls us to do, although people who follow Christ may properly fight against evil. It is the stuff that Islamists stand on to justify their actions:

            “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter… and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah.” — Quran 2:191

            “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” – Quran 9:5

            Is this honest enough? Islam teaches violence, murder, and subjection against people who are not Islamic. Christianity does not do this. No, really, this is the truth. And Islamic violence and oppression in converting people has no simiarity to Christian evangelism, BECAUSE EVANGELISM DOES NOT COERCE OR THREATEN ANYONE. If you don’t like Christianity, just say “No.” If you don’t like Islam, watch your back. Sorry, I can’t say something different here and claim to still be telling the truth. I don’t practice taqiyyah.

            Yes, I’ve known several Christians who converted from Islam, and they definitely look through the peek-hole before they open their doors, knowing that a kindly, peaceful Muslim could be waiting for a chance to take them out. That is standard Islamic behavior. However, if they choose to return to Islam, no Christian will bother them, at least not for abandoning Christianity. There might be some extra tension due to the threats that an avid Moslem may pose, but that is normally the extent of the problem.

          52. Mustafa Curtess says

            You got a bleeding heart for the idolators of 1500 years ago? (It was a great show – sorry you missed it.)
            “Standard Islamic behavior”? Name one apostate that has been punished in the US.
            If what you claim is true – he is just making a show to impress you. LOL! If they want him – no stinking door is going to stop them.

          53. Bill says

            Your reply is great example of grasping at straws, Mustafa. If the truth were to be told:

            The verses I cited have nothing to do with whether I have a bleeding heart for anyone. They were a reply to your false assertion that Islam and Christianity share similar principles of evangelism. As established, and then shifted into a bunny trail of something about a bleeding heart, they do not.

            “Standard Islamic behavior,” can and should be questioned concerning its accuracy. In response, one needs only listen to the constant threats and insults of Islam toward the West, and to note the outrage that anyone might depict Mohammed in visual form, or to read the aggressive language which the Kor’an sets as doctrine, observe the fact that ex-Moslems tend to be on their guard, and of course count the bodies of the beheaded and others. It takes a special, intentional ignorance to have so much that can be seen, and to see none of it. So, seeing a behavior both in doctrine and in actual execution(s), it does not seem a stretch to see it as standard Islam.

            It is silly to tell someone that you know when one of their friends, completely unknown to you, is trying to impress them. When I go to a friend’s home, and I knock, and then these eyes peer out before the door is slowly opened, at just what point did my friend know that it was I, so that he would be inclined to “impress” me? Why whould anyone at all seek to “impress” me in that way, when all I am doing is having a visit?

            Obviously, none of this has the least to do with the strength of one’s door, but also it isn’t the brightest thing to kick in someone’s door and find out that they aren’t even home. Quite a jumble of thoughts, Mustafa, but changing the subject and moving targets around does not make your case.

          54. Mustafa Curtess says

            I have never changed a subject. I have followed your lead almost without exception.
            My responses are unacceptable to because I can not be a sycophant to a bigot (or anybody else).
            Here it is again! Your presumption that I haven’t known any apostates to Islam. My own apostasy as an Atheist attracts them to me like bees to spilled honey! (As if we share something in common!) I mentioned overwhelmingly typical behavior – and your token example is no exception. Unless your paranoid friend never leaves his home – there is no need for anybody to kick his door in.
            And altho you may not believe it (just because I said it) millions of those viewers are in use – by people who merely like to see who is there so that they can know whether to slip a robe on or tell their companion to get out of sight before they open the door (or not open it at all). We are more traumatized by Mormon “Elders”, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or just that persistent old bible-thumping Baptist around the block that refuses to take “no” for an answer.
            Gosh! Do you see Muslims at the bottom of EVERYTHING negative in life?

          55. Bill says

            I have pointed out how you change the subject and get off track, Mustafa. I have pointed out that you have expressed emotion and insonsistency of thought, preventing you from gathering adequate substance to make a case, and have mentioned some information that you are declining to supply.

            I have no knowledge about whether you know Muslim apostates, but contrary to your rant, I would assume that you do, since you have such an affinity for things Islamic and you claim to be an apostate yourself. Despite your claims, your continual defense and affirmation of Islam may well be all that you need to stay safe from those who would pursue apostates. When you adore everything that Islam does, even though you can’t say anything good about it and claim to reject religion of every kind, you could probably walk right into a mosque, fit in well, and probably chant and gesture in all the right ways, just like a real Moslem.

            Meanwhile, your opinions about my friends come from an absolute lack of knowledge and incomplete reasoning, as even you might be willing to admit. (To now assume that they looked out the door in order to pick what to wear in order to deceive, really takes the cake!) You seem passionate about violence, which I count as being part of your love for Islam, or at least the habit of seeing the world in Islamic terms.

            Finally, in an effort to shift you back to reality, no, Islam is not even close to all that is negative in life. A black widow spider is about the same, simply a threat to be watched and opposed as necessary. It definitely makes sense to see Islam and black widow spiders for what they are, and there is absolutely no sane purpose in pretending that they are benign and unworthy of concern. At least, not until you can tell me anything good about either of them. Maybe you can tell me more about a black widow that is good, as opposed to Islam. I could give that a shot, myself.

          56. don_in_virginia says

            Christians won’t kill you if you say no!

          57. Mustafa Curtess says

            Apparently they are doing exactly that in a few places around the world right now, and the way things are going – they will be doing it here in the USA within the forseeable future.

          58. don_in_virginia says

            BS! And that’s not beef steak!!!

          59. don_in_virginia says

            Bill you are absolutely correct.
            If Compu-Trinh is correct, aren’t moderate muslims condemning the jihadist. Their voice should be the loudest!
            Compu-trim is an ignoramous!

          60. Rodney Steward says

            There’s no such thing as MODERATE muslims!

          61. AKLady says

            Moderate Muslims:

            They are your neighbors.
            They are the doctor that saved your son’s life.
            They are the teller at your bank.
            They are the waitress at your restaurant.
            They are the teacher at your daughter’s school.
            They are the American soldier KIA in Vietnam.
            They are the American soldier KIA in Afghanistan,.
            They are the American soldier buried at Arlington.

            Stop insulting your fellow Americans.
            Stop insulting what our Founders fought and died for.

          62. Rodney Steward says

            I don’t know where you’re claiming to be living now, but NONE OF the hits home where I’m at!

          63. AKLady says

            Is that the planet Mars?

          64. Retired says

            She is a cave dweller , that collects bear and Moose Pies .

          65. Rodney Steward says

            LOL, and probably wears coon skin hats too, that is one crazy POS, wakes up in a different world everyday, but always sticking up for her muslim on every issue!

          66. Retired says

            She is a Muslim just like Obozso same shade to .

          67. Rodney Steward says

            I thought she was one of those Nam bring home’s, she may be a sand coon, not much difference in either one!!

          68. Mustafa Curtess says

            Hey! You Viet-nam vets out there! What did the above cheap shot say about the character of the citizens you are in bed with? And you, Rodney: Have no fear that our troops will be bringing any “sand coon’s” home with them. Muslim women simply do not marry Christian men. (They won’t even TALK to them – much less have consentual sexual relations with them.)

          69. Rodney Steward says

            Mustafu, did you take an oath to this country, or do you just want to run your mouth or is AK your sweetie you 2 would make a great couple!! I would never talk of my Vets. that way, and I personally don’t know any that brought one home and would marry neither one! And of course muslims don’t marry outside their cult!!

          70. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yes! I did take an Oath to my country, and even tho it was a much different country at the time – I still honor it in wanting and (in my own small way) struggling for the best for us.
            AKlady and I have some conflicting fundamental political opinions. But that does not stand in the way of my respect for her tireless historical research and the accuracy of the information that comes out of it.
            Citizens like her didn’t get us into the situation we are in (bigoted sore-heads did it) – but are probably our only way out of it. (When the “feces hits the fan” – we are going to turn to the “AKladies” to turn it off.)
            If you don’t know any members of the VFW that have Asian (and European) “bring home” wives – then you must not know many vets.
            Islam is recognized as a “religion” by all nations and the leadership of all other religions. (You need to take the semantics up with them.) But even if you get it officially changed to “cult” – it doesn’t make a whit of difference as far as the First Amendment is concerned. Just another “buzz word” that you have allowed to warp your minds.

          71. Mustafa Curtess says

            Muslim men can marry anybody they trust will not slit their throats when they are sleeping. Because it is the husband who decides which religion his offspting will be raised in, and (with no reason otherwise) it is the father who gets the kids in a divorce.
            Islam recognizes the superiority (and greater responsibility) of the male – just as nature does in most mammals. “No ship can be sailed properly with two captains”.

          72. alegalcitizen says

            But the Muslim refugees are hard up, and the women don’t want to have sex with them so they just rape them and think that is OK. WHY would any one want to have sex with someone covered head to toe with a crow costume?

          73. Mustafa Curtess says

            I am honestly too far away from this to answer some of your question. That is: I haven’t been in a large Muslim community here. Since “refugees” is usually mentioned, I have to assume they are recent arrivals. I am fairly certain that the resident community isn’t involved (otherwise it would have been an existing problem for as long as the resident community has been here – and this is recent). I slso don’t know the extent of the problem. The emphasis put on it may suggest that it is more frequent and wide-spread than it actually is – and rape and sexual-abuse is a feature of life in all urban communities.)
            Also it would be unthinkable for this to be at all common in their home communities. (Fathers, brothers, husbands of victims simply do not tolerate this – and as “barbaric” as it may sound – official punishment for “revenge” killings of this nature is nothing more than a formality.). Rapists in western society are normally punished lightly – or not at all. And as you know – families of rape victims are commonly bitter and outraged by the courts’ leniency. Altho I do not know – I must suspect that “absence of justice” may very well figure into this Phenominum. (That might be a feature of “sharia law” that the community here might be able to appreciate: Swify, sure, and uncomplicated justice.)
            Something of possible importance is that rape is as much a sociopathic issue as it is a sexual one in western society. (If I attempt to expand on that, I would expose myself to consideral hostility and mis-interptetation – so I will leave it there.)
            I very much doubt that lack of opportunuty is the explanation – altho for VERY recent immigrants it might be.
            The “crow costume” does NOT have the effect that a westerner might imagine. There is a certain erotic allure in imagining what may be concealed by it (and for those who take them for granted – they are not as “concealing” as one might imagine.)
            Furthermore – the anonymity they provide provides prostitutes perfect cover (no pun intended). I daresay that much more is involved here – than normal frustrated horniness. (Western tolerance for homosexuality, creates another harmless, readily-available relief opportunity.

          74. Retired says

            You got it right, the sand coons were there before the US .

          75. Rodney Steward says

            EXACTLY RT!!! How you be doing!! 🙂

          76. Retired says

            Enjoying my morning coffee and sun shine .

          77. Rodney Steward says

            That’s GREAT, same here except I have liquid sun shine!!

          78. Retired says

            Hope you aren’t getting some of that flooding rain that has popped up all over .

          79. Mustafa Curtess says

            Tell us any item in her list of “moderate Muslims” that is untrue. (Whether or not she “collects bear and moose pies” doesn’t detract from the facts that she presents.)

          80. Rodney Steward says

            None are my neighbors, none are my doctors, none are my tellers at my bank, none work at any place I eat, none are teaching my kids, and maybe half can be trusted in our military that they SHOULD NOT be in, their oath doesn’t mean shi$, they don’t believe in our bible and God we take an oath too!!

          81. AKLady says

            You would not know a Muslim if one waled up and slapped you in the face.
            You are simply an ignoran bigot.
            What other religion do you hate? Jews? Catholics? Mormons?

          82. Mustafa Curtess says

            You have no idea who all your neighbors, Dr’s. etc. are – unless you live in some carefully-segregated WASP state or city that nobody else knows about.
            If you do not believe that Muslims should serve in the U.S. military – please take that up with your Congressional Representatives and the Pentagon. (When we were drafting cannon-fodder to send to Vietnam – American Muslims were not deferred or exempted.)
            Seems that native Arabic-speaking soldiers are quite useful to U.S. troops invading and occupying Muslim countries.
            In order to be morally-binding, I’m thinking that Muslims can take Oaths on the Quran. (There is more than sufficient evidence that some Muslims take their perceived spiritual obligations quite seriously. They are commonly referred to as “suicide bombers”.) (No?)

          83. Rodney Steward says

            HAHAHAHAHA, SUICIDE BOMBERS, HAHAHAHA, that called a brainwashed idiot or a weak minded FOOL!!! One muslim even said on TV that was the way they get rid of their weak that basically meant that they were slow or retarded! And by the way I know everybody with in a 15 mile area around here, half are my kinfolk, country life Musta! The quran in NOT THE BIBLE, they don’t worship God, they worship a made up prophet!!

          84. Mustafa Curtess says

            Very fortunate community life for you. (15-mile radius – Hmm. And most of them relatives – Hmm. Are both your eyes the same color? That may explain why you don’t sound very bright.) Don’t take it for granted that it will always be like that – but enjoy it while you can.
            No disagreement that religious people are “brainwashed, weak-minded fools”. (ALL of them!) That is exactly what I’m trying to get everybody else to understand! (Thanks for your help – it’s appreciated.)
            Good point about prophets – too. Mohammed appointed himself in the Koran, and Jesus appointed himself in the Bible. No physical or intellectual evidence of any kind to validate either. Nothing but superstition. (Back to square 1)

          85. Rodney Steward says

            Actually I do branch out many miles, I just wanted to keep it simple for you, Hmm! You don’t know shi$ about me and the things I can and do! I bought most of my Grandfathers farm, I kill, catch and grow most all of my food, and yes I can run a trot line! I’m a Southern Country Boy that loves his country and worked for Uncle Same for 12 years and still do some long range shooting at an old Fort that still has summer camp for National Guards! I can see both your eyes are NOT the same color, Jesus never appointed himself God, and Mohooky was appointed because he was said to have killed 200 Christians alone! Imagine killing to be made a God!!

          86. Mustafa Curtess says

            I don’t pretend to know anything about you more than you told me yourself.
            Hey! “Long Range”! BPCRS was my game for years. Shot the Nationals at NRA Whittington Center in the late ’90’s but liked Mid-Range with Smoleless (same rifles) much better – and shot the “Quigley” match in Montana several times in the early 2000’s.
            Have my own range on the farm where I’ve worked since retiring from State service 17 years ago (also custodian of the IPSC & IDPA range there – so I’m fairly good with handguns of all kinds, too). Do all my own reloading (for the “race guns, too) and have cast all my own bullets for years. Just recovering from (very successful) cataract removal surgery and will be back in the game as soon as the surgeon is comfortable about recoil. (45-70 and 44-63 Ballard shakes you around pretty severely with heavy, mid-range bullets).

          87. Rodney Steward says

            Well I’ll be dang, I have one eye Scottish and the other Cherokee, and I too have my own rifle and pistol range right here at the house! Got a friend down the road that has a 300 meter range set up, and that’s why I will not join the Club at the Fort, you have to go to 3 matches a year and you never know where you’ll have to go, so I just shoot with them when invited at the fort! I just can’t up and go off to shoot like that as much as I’d love to do it, to much going on! My mom is a stroke victim and have to take care of her business and spend as much time with her as possible, and 4 months after mom had her stroke my father fell over dead getting ready to go to bed and that come as a total shock to us all, he was retired military, most everyone in my family is or has been military, have 3 family members in now! One is in the sand lands now and the others are on standby most all the time! I hate this war, a war we shouldn’t be in at all, these gutter rats have been battling every since BEFORE Jesus walked the lands there! I Deer hunt with a 44 mag Thompson Contender pistol, and around here a 50 yard shot is average, pretty thick country and one section is full of hardwood I’ve shot a 45-70 a few times, and it does feel good!

          88. Mustafa Curtess says

            Never ceases to amaze me how much we all have in common if we can push the religious friction aside.
            The part of my range that I use 90% of the time is the 300 yd part with the the pig swinger hanging in a portable frame pushed back to 350 yards. This is just perfect for all my old WW1 military rifles, lever-actions, 30 carbine, SKS, the “buffalo rifles” with lighter bullets and milder loads, and a couple of scoped, serious-caliber revolvers. Any time I can keep in the pig’s “kill zone” at 300 and 350 yards I am plenty satisfied with my home-grown ammo, my guns, and myself. (A man-sized target a block away would be an easy off-hand proposition any day – and fair chances with the longer-barreled revolvers from just about any kind of rest that is handy.) I built my own 458 Winchester Magnum on a good Mauser action because I always wanted to know what it would be like to shoot one – and the cost of a factory one out-of-the question. Can only shoot 5 rounds at a time before I get a blinding concussion-headache – but amazingly it is as competent at 600 yds as anything else I’ve got (with special sights for that purpose).
            (I’m 80 but don’t feel it, look it, – and refuse to act it.)

          89. Mustafa Curtess says

            Jesus claimed to be “Son Of God” ( As was pounded into my head all during my wasted “Christian” youth). And the church interprets that as “God Incarnate”. (All together in the “Trinity”) And Catholics consider Mary “Mother Of God”. So how else could I have interpreted it? I recognized it as BS when I was about 10 – and I was certain of that by the time I was 13. I tried to believe and my family and community “beat me over the head” with the Bible until I was old enough to join the USAF (plus 2 weeks) to get away from that insanity without hurting anyone’s feelings. Was still incredible at 30 – so I studied Islam (which made a LOT more sense) and became Muslim for 40 years (still hoping that I could “believe”). Both were just transparent scams to control my mind – and by 70 – I stopped cluttering up my mind with it, liberated myself, and belatedly began experiencing what was left of my life. (That is going FAR better than I expected. If I could do it – ANYBODY can!)

          90. Rodney Steward says

            Had nothing pushed on me that bad, you can turn anyone off by doing that, but all people are not raised alike!

          91. Mustafa Curtess says

            Of course not! By comparison to others I have met over the years, my experience was really not so bad.

          92. AKLady says

            Do you wear a sign saying what religion you practice?
            Well, foolish one, neither do Muslims.

          93. Bill says

            Thank you for that, Don. These discussions are a great way to share ideas, or to snort and howl, as people might prefer. Still, if people could get a few simple ideas into their minds, so much of this would be unnecessary:

            – Leftism and strong central government are death to liberty and prosperity, cementing idleness and dependency on government subsidies, yielding mediocrity at best, and misery and death at worst.

            – Runaway corporate power is also death to freedom and prosperity, because while it produces more goods and services, the abuse of those who do the work excludes them from the benefits of what is made. Thus, government and corporations must be kept in a proper balance of power (thank you, Teddy Roosevelt).

            – Islam is an established belief system, and whatever its truth or falsehood, many people follow it honestly. However, the attitudes of Islam to murder, oppress, or enslave those not persuaded by this religion, together with its poor treatment of women, its intolerance for other beliefs and cultures, its readiness to resort to violence, the brutality of its laws and customs, its opposition to freedom and prosperity, its cultic isolationism, and its continual self-positioning as an enemy to local culture make it difficult or impossible to peacefully unite Islam of any significant substance with America and American values. Regrettably, Islam is a religion of conquest, and thus a threat, despite how nice it would be for everyone to just get along.

            – Globalism and open borders can seem like fairness to everyone, but in fact it destroys culture, it violates property rights, law, and order, it takes away national self-definition, and it undermines self-government. Globalism feeds the interests of those who want to eliminate individual nations, in a single stroke get rid of the way that different peoples choose their local governments, and establish a one-world government, of course with these people in positions of power.

            If just these few thoughts were understood, perhaps 80% of the back and forth that we see here would go away, and people might stand better united to, dare I say, “Make America Great Again.” As it is, so many people seem to want something other than a free and prosperous America, that this goes around and around. So, here’s to some patriotism, for the good of America, and to some clear perspective, so that the people who love America can straightforwardly help her, and not hurt her.

          94. AKLady says

            Make America HATE again.
            He is doing a very good job of that. You are a prime example.

            Shall we put American Muslims in concentration camps? You know, like we did Americans of Japanese ancestry?

            Shall we steal their bank accounts? You know, like we did those of Japanese-Americans?

            Shall we steal their property? You know, like we did that owned by Japanese-Americans?

            Freedom of religion a Constitutional right? Only if you are a Protestant Christian. Catholics. Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Quakers … are just a few religions that have been persecuted.

            Suggest a short history lesson: “America’s True History of Religious Tolerance” http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/

          95. usmcltc says

            Make America HATE again.
            He is doing a very good job of that. You are a prime example.
            The liberals just can’t get over the fact that Trump won the election, and THEIR response has been a show of hate for our President. If we have done the same thing 08 and 2012 that the liberals are doing now, the liberals would have called us “racists”. Oh, that’s right, they did call us racists anytime we questioned their biracial “hero”.

          96. AKLady says

            Trump was put in office by the Electoral College.
            Hillary won the popular vote.

          97. usmcltc says

            Oh! The liberal call of Victory, “Hillary won the popular vote!”. Hillary got more popular votes ONLY because she got 4 million more votes than Trump in New York and California combines. Take out those two liberal states, and Trump got 1 million more votes than Hillary in the remaining 48 states. But, you keep telling yourself that “Hillary won the popular vote” if it makes you fell all warm and fuzzy. You should remember that YOU are the one who said many times, “We, the people, do NOT elect the President”. I guess your position depends on who wins the election, right?

          98. AKLady says

            United States citizens are just that, citizens.
            Where they live is not a factor.
            Liberal has ceased to have any valid meaning, it is simply an insult, a slur
            Do you also believe that everyone in the Southern states are racist?
            Are all Texans cowboys?
            Is everyone in Utah a Mormon?
            Is all of Alaska covered in ice and snow? ….

          99. usmcltc says

            I agree that “liberal” is an insult, a slur, as liberals are too dumb to realize this when they call THEMSELVES a “liberal”.
            Are all liberals just dumb? Of course not, as I know two who have IQs over 100, and they are Mormon cowboys who live in Alaska.

          100. AKLady says

            I have found that the more intelligent and educated an individual is, the more liberal their thought processes become. Apparently, it is a mental disorder caused by learning.

          101. usmcltc says

            “Freedom of religion” means that we have the right to choose a religion, NOT the freedom of some members of religious groups to shove THEIR religion down our throats.

          102. AKLady says

            Like the extremists, evangelical Christians?

          103. AKLady says

            He is not, but you most certainly are.

          104. AKLady says

            The problem seems to be that your eyes and ears are closed.

          105. AKLady says

            He is not, but you are.
            First, their lives would be endangered.
            Second, in America we capitalize proper nouns,
            You are advertising ignorance and embarrassing America.
            You are insulting everything our Nation represents.
            You insult our Constitution.
            You insult our Founders, who fought and died for religious freedom.
            Develop some common sense and maturity.

          106. AKLady says

            Here are few examples of non-Islamic terrorism that have occurred in the United States in the last 30 years. All of them are related to religious extremists, none of which is Muslim. The list is simply a sample, it is not all-inclusive.

            1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012.
            2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009.
            3. Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008.
            4. The murder of Barnett Slepian by James Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998.
            5. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996.
            6. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994.
            7. Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994.
            8. Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010.
            9. The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984.
            10. Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995.
            11. The Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church Shooting
            12. The Campaign of Terror Against Abortion Doctors
            13. Everything The Ku Klux Klan Has Ever Done
            14. The Massacre At Zion Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston, S.C.

            The rampant xenophobia that has taken hold of the Republican Party is an affront to everything this nation stands for. Terrorism spawns from the desperation of humankind, and for that, we are all guilty.

          107. Bill says

            That’s really something. Now, as a bit of magic, add to it a similarly complete list of Islamic terrorism during the same period, and this list will probably become invisible; too small to notice. But to be fair, a global comparison of such events would be less “gerrymandered” than what you are providing here. It is again that matter of looking only for snippets that might help your argument, instead of trying to tell the whole truth. Telling the whole truth is much more honorable and respectful to people.

          108. AKLady says

            Your reading comprehension seems to be very deficient.
            My post clearly stated: ” The list is simply a sample, it is not all-inclusive.”

          109. Bill says

            Short English lesson: “Similarly complete” is synonymous with “similarly incomplete.” It simply means that the degree of completeness is similar. That is the usage to which you so object.

          110. AKLady says

            Your excuse does not make the grade. To be a proper statement, your sentence would need to use the words “similarly incomplete”.
            No, Bill, you comparison ia not valid.
            One sentence leaves a far different impression than the other …

          111. Bill says

            As usual, there is no way to get any truth into your granite head. I said exactly the truth. I even considered that particular question before choosing my words. But you have the authority to say what I meant? Bizzarre.

          112. AKLady says

            There comes Bill, with his usual twisting of words.
            There comes Bill, with his usual twisting of facts.

          113. Bill says

            If I had meant “complete”, I would have left out the word “similarly”. That I even need to tell you this shows how delusional you are.

          114. AKLady says

            Thank you.
            Your input is always welcome
            It says so much about you.

          115. Retired says

            You are not going to get through to Mooseshit for Brains that has hardened

          116. Bill says

            I was more naive a short time ago. I am becoming thoroughly convinced of what you say, now. She thinks in geologic time.

          117. AKLady says

            Incapable of logical argument, you resort to insult.
            Typical no fact response.

          118. AKLady says

            loose
            lo͞os/
            adjective
            comparative adjective: looser
            1.
            not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached.

          119. Retired says

            Looser , that is what you are and detached from what really goes on .

          120. AKLady says

            Looser , that is what you are and detached from what really goes on

          121. Retired says

            Time for your meds it is showing .

          122. Rodney Steward says

            Amen friend, maybe she’ll pull the trigger this time!

          123. Retired says

            We had one good thing last year with Trump , I don’t think she / It has the guts to do it.

          124. AKLady says

            Time for your meds it is showing .

          125. AKLady says

            You can’t win, so you spew insults.
            Typical male looser.

          126. Bill says

            I know there is no way in the world to get a drop of truth into your head, which I would consider a win. So, you are right. You win, and I “loose(?)”.

          127. Rodney Steward says

            All the above were Dem. Queen!

          128. AKLady says

            Children make up fairy tales.
            How old did you say you were?

          129. Rodney Steward says

            And dogs eat shi$, I’m younger than you are!!

          130. AKLady says

            Children make up fairy tales.
            How old did you say you were?

          131. graybuffalo says

            Oh, really? There will come a time when all “infidels” (non-Muslims) will be fitted for salmon-colored jump suits and beheaded. Maybe you will be one of them.

          132. COMPU-TRON says

            Be realistic.

          133. AKLady says

            That explains your ignorance and your bigotry.

          134. graybuffalo says

            I, for one, do not speak to barbarians.

          135. graybuffalo says

            You mean the same “local” Muslims who speak out so vociferously with outrage over the terrorist attacks? Including 9/11? Funny, I didn’t hear anything from your “local” Muslims………………………………crickets.

          136. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Local” Muslims have had nothing to do with “terrorism”. In fact : They are victims of it in several ways most of all because they unfairly get blamed for it.
            I think if you will consider for a moment – when one apologized for something that has happened, those that are hostile towards them see that apology as an indication of complicity. The REAL American Muslim community (many of whom have been here forvseveral generations) points out that the extremists and terrorists do not represent the modern Muslim community anywhere in the world.
            Because of its belief that “all Muslims are all alike and the same as they were 1500 years ago” (itself an exaggeration) and increasingly “the only good Muslim is a dead one” (frequently seen in Facebook commentary). ever more Muslims are reticent to call attention to themselves by saying anything at all. (They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.)
            If they were to demonstrate overtly against terrorism – ISIS will murder the leaders.
            (Our government offers no protection.) Indeed – terrorists who do violence (against Christian victims) commonly are known to the authorities as dangerous and having ties to terrorist organizations. But instead of imprisoning or deporting them – they are released back into the public. (Check the records for yourself.)
            So saying that local Muslims “don’t show outrage” is a cheap shot.

          137. COMPU-TRON says

            You just aren’t predispotioned to listen. And I can guarantee you don’t speak to Muslims anyway. Go away, bigot.

          138. AKLady says

            I read and see what Christians are up to, and ir isn’t “peace”.
            Central African Republic Christians kill everyone who will not convert.
            American Christians murder doctors.
            American Christian bomb medical clinics.
            American prisons are full of convicted Christian criminals,
            some of which are murderers.

          139. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Lady you just can’t defend Muslims, they are all terrorists and no defense is possible for terrorism.

          140. richard king says

            She is a Muslim, and a fraud. A soldier of Islam, advocating killing of Christians. Getting crazier by the day; somebody should go up there and lock her up, if they can find her.

          141. AKLady says

            Who taught you to hate?
            The Bible advocates killing of nonbelievers,
            maybe you should educate yourself better?
            ..
            Oh, and I suggest you find somewhere else to live.
            Freedom of religion is the very basis upon which America exists.
            You insult everything our Founders fought and died for.

          142. Bill says

            You despise what our Founders fought and died for. That is why you love Islam and Sharia, which you know are completely incompatible with America’s principles of freedom and respect for dissent. Yet, you speak as if they are compatible. A little good taqiyya working for you, there!

          143. AKLady says

            Why do you lie?
            Why do you believe it is acceptable to lie?
            Your statement is entirely false.

          144. Bill says

            Clarify what is false. Not convinced.

          145. AKLady says

            Islam has been part of America since before we became a Nation.

            It arrived long before the British.

            There is evidence strongly suggesting that Arab explorers arrived before the Vikings. There is also evidence that Chinese explorers also were here before the Vikings. He is a link to a list of the various theories currently under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories

          146. Bill says

            Enjoy your study of pre-Columbian history. It still has no effect on whether Islam is a positive force or a negative one, and you are certainly not the person to figure out the obvious answer to that question.

          147. AKLady says

            Your mean like Christianity …

            The Crusades, The Inquisition, The witch hunts, The Peasants War, French Wars of rebellion, Massacre at Vassy, The Thirty Years War, Pope Sixtus V, Irish Rebellion, Democide in the Americas, Democide in Africa, Democide in Australia, The papal bull Romanus Pontifex – 1455, Slavery in the Americas, Leopold II, King of the Belgians – butcher of the Congo Free State 1885-1908, The Holocaust, Catholic Nazi State in Croatia, Lebanon War, Sabta and Shatila Massacre, Serb Orthodox genocide, Protestant death squads in Ireland, The Rwandan genocide, Zimbabwe — Catholic protection of Mugabe, Lord’s Resistance Army, Central African Republic Catholic murdering of those who won’t convert …, Americans killing physicians and bombing medical clinics, Americans killing church congregations; America – the KKK murders (they are now international terrorists).
            ….

          148. Bill says

            Yes, you are also welcome to stay in your beloved world of wickedness and see how much evil you can pin on Christianity. In your role as Islamist and a political leftist with all kinds of phoney cover stories, that is expected.

          149. AKLady says

            Recorded history is now a “phony cover story”?
            You must be one of those red state dropouts.

          150. Bill says

            There is nothing phoney about history. Only the way that you present carefully selected snippets of it is phoney. “Now, for the rest of the story….” We’ll never get that from you.

          151. AKLady says

            Yet, another childish insult.

          152. Bill says

            And yet, entirely true.

          153. AKLady says

            And, yet another childish insult.

          154. AKLady says

            Prove your accusation.
            I call you a liar.

          155. Bill says

            You never hear proof. Everyone who reads these pages sees what is going on, except for you. You need me to prove that your comments abut Christianity are way out of objective balance? You’ve got to be joking; way too obvious, at least to any normal person.

          156. AKLady says

            The Crusades, The Inquisition, The witch hunts, The Peasants War, French Wars of rebellion, Massacre at Vassy, The Thirty Years War, Pope Sixtus V, Irish Rebellion, Democide in the Americas, Democide in Africa, Democide in Australia, The papal bull Romanus Pontifex – 1455, Slavery in the Americas, Leopold II, King of the Belgians – butcher of the Congo Free State 1885-1908, The Holocaust, Catholic Nazi State in Croatia, Lebanon War, Sabta and Shatila Massacre, Serb Orthodox genocide, Protestant death squads in Ireland, The Rwandan genocide, Zimbabwe — Catholic protection of Mugabe, Lord’s Resistance Army, Central African Republic Catholic murdering of those who won’t convert …, Americans killing physicians and bombing medical clinics, Americans killing church congregations; America – the KKK murders (they are now international terrorists).

          157. Bill says

            Yeah, there’s some real balance and objectivity! Do you have a clue, even yet?

          158. AKLady says

            Facts are facts.
            They don’t change simply because you don’t like them.

          159. Bill says

            Very true. And there are a milion facts that you refuse to acknowledge or talk about, while you pick and choose the minority facts that support your biases. Absolutely true.

          160. AKLady says

            Only in your imagination.
            What I refuse to adopt is religious bigotry.
            What I refuse to adopt is discrimination based on religion.
            What I refuse to accept are lies and hate.

          161. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Everyone” (Really?) “Normal”? (Nothing egotistical about you – is there?)

          162. Bill says

            I would have thought that you could handle this very simple logic, so you decide whether you can. If someone proposes to explain a subject to someone else, but that person only happens to mention, say, negative things, I would say that this is not giving full and objective coverage. How simple could this possibly be? What “proof” is needed in this?!

            Being an individual, I don’t understand how I can have “mass hysteria.” If I search for some kind of hysteria that I might have received from the masses, I don’t see it. So I have to ask what you mean.

            But yes, given the simplicity of the puzzle, I did not think it out of place to assume that it within the capabilities of a person of average intelligence. If that is egotism, then everything is egotism.

          163. Mustafa Curtess says

            You are talking in circles. Please state the “puzzle”. ( I have no idea what you are talking about .)
            You say that you “propose” something, and that I am “negative” about it. If I point out the flaws, mis-conceptions, and prejudices that proposal is based upon, yes that is certainly negative – and rightly so.
            You keep floating all this idealistic, pie-in-the-sky theory – and reject out-of-hand any reasons why it has not and can not work.
            You are incapable of “discussing” or compromising on anything. You have a solution in mind, and you accept nothing except agreement. You may skim over other’s good-faith reactions and maybe consider that symbolic “discussion” – but you are so full of yourself that you have no intention of altering your position. “He can take it – or leave it (but at least I tried)”.
            Please stop addressing your lengthy, self-justifying comments to me. They’re nothing but meandering essays and you are flattered that someone read them.
            Well – I have a gut full of your delusional, pedantic, nonsense – and I’m not going to read anything longer than 2 column inches again.

          164. Mustafa Curtess says

            Oh Ho! “Carefully selected snippets”. Isn’t that how Christians are presenting Islam?
            I detest them equally, because they are both incredibly destructive figments of man’s imagination.
            But I do have a strong sense of fair play – and I call that a foul.
            The lady has done an incredible amount of research. The results that she presents for our consideration stand alone. Anybody that wants “the rest of the story” is encouraged to search further details themselves. (She has served us a lovely dinner – but we can only enjoy it and sustain ourselves by it – is by eating it.)

          165. Bill says

            I confess, I like something more than sawdust for dinner. AKLady would not deign to discuss a topic from two sides to save her life. Glad you get what you like from her, though.

            As far as Islam goes, I freely confess that I have been saying what I know of it. What I know of it does not have a nice side. Christianity teaches things like love, patience, kindness, redemption, and other similar things concerning the relationship between man and God, and also between human beings. Islam seems to me very different from this, and so, apart from such disciplines as proper ritual, self control, and obedience to Allah, I really don’t see anything appealing in Islam. Mohammad wanted earthly power, and he got it.

            So, since I don’t see the “good” in Islam, maybe you can enlighten us all.

          166. Mustafa Curtess says

            AK lady is a great source of reliable fact (especially historical fact). She attracts negative reaction simply because having one’s bigoted opinions blown out of the water by facts can only be responded to with hostility, verbal abuse, and insult.
            Yes, from my own experience attempting to discuss things with you – I am sure that she wouldn’t “deign” to waste time humoring you.
            Note that her comments are usually fairly brief and on-topic. There is rarely any opinion involved (altho it is convenient to pretend that it is).
            Islam really does enrich practicing Muslims (of both sexes) lives in ways that Christians do not approve of at face value – and therefore is impossible to understand and appreciate in depth. Fundamentally Islam is far more positive about sexuality than Christianity is (which is the reason that Muslim women “put up with it). (Muslim children are not “born in sin as products of lust”, for instance) – and extremely few Muslim husbands are “pussy-whipped” like the average Christian fiancee’/husband is. (I have lived it both ways – and I stand by this from experience.)
            I can not say anything “good” about ANY religion (as you knew before you made that taunt) and overall, Islam is no worse nor better than any than any other. They like theirs and you like yours – why not leave it at that? You aren’t under any pressure to “see anything appealing in Islam” at all. Your opinions aren’t what keeps Earth in its orbit. (Gosh! Some of you people are arrogant!)

          167. Bill says

            That makes a great story, Mustafa. Unfortunately, I have dealt with AKLady long enough now to become familiar with her care in only presenting her political biases. If they fit what you like to believe, then of course you will appreciate her. For my part, I simply don’t feel satisfied with perhaps 10% of the truth. I have no complaint against partial truth, since it is a step, but that doesn’t fly when so much is missing, for the obvious purpose of creating propaganda. So, you can feel free to be her disciple, but I’ll pass. Maybe if you look at my comments to her, you will get an idea of why I don’t give her anything near a stamp of approval.

            Now that you have so barely defended Islam, I find no ability to change my understanding of it. Good job on that. A person who asks a question is now arrogant for wanting to know something. You have a fascinating way of thinking, but I admit you are becoming less engaging for your lack of information. If there is a good side to Islam, maybe someone else will know what it is. Meanwhile, I can understand the difficulty in finding an answer to that question, since I have similarly hit that wall.

            Why do you defend Islam at all, if you can find nothing good to say about it? That is curious, unless it is just that you hate Christianity more. Anyway, you seem to have a tortured life. It woud be nice if you could find a way to freedom.

          168. Mustafa Curtess says

            I have had acrimonious discussions with AKlady from the beginning – and have attempted free-thinking discussions with you. AKlady expresses few opinions and leaves no room for doubt that they ARE no more than opinion. On the other hand: She easily refute’s other’s opinions with incontrovertible documentary fact that any person can easily research for themselves on-line. Thus far – nobody has said that they did so and found any information that conflicted with Lady’s conclusions.
            On the other hand – your postulations are pure conjecture and typically reflect only popular, irresponsible, distortions and exaggerations. Of the two of you – Lady is the only sincere, credible, and worthy source of information for anyone genuinely seeking to educate themselves.
            I feel no compulsion to “defend” Islam – other than my assertion that citizens of Muslim countries have the right to follow it there at their discretion, the same as Christians do in countries where they are a majority. (And that they have equal Constitutionally-protected right to do so here – short of violation of US civil and criminal law.)
            All the “but they do that and we do this” should have no influence on anything. Nobody has to go there – and that IS the point of “national sovereignity”, after all.
            Trust Me – if I could expect you to effectively wipe each other off of the face of the earth – I would be agitating and war-mongering in every way possible to make that happen.
            I really MUST stop responding to your ridiculous complaints and accusations against me. Absolutely NOTHING is to be gained by it.

          169. Bill says

            At least we agree that, when Muslims are in their countries doing what they do and Christians are in theirs in the same way, there is no problem. Conversely, that must mean that we agree that trying to bring lots of Muslims to America to try and mix with American culture would be a disaster. That’s a pretty good conclusion.

          170. Mustafa Curtess says

            Our Founding Fatgers didn’t see it that way. They realized that every culture had something unique and valuable to contribute to our “start-from-scratch” potential – and they also knew that a dominating religion would doom it to failure.
            So they created a secular Constitution that would allow all beliefs to participate, contribute, and COMPETE.
            Now there you go again. Christains have NEVER had any NOTION of leaving people alone in their own countries. They’re still DOING it – but this time with military protection. (Bunch of self-riteous hypocrites.) You jump right into the pretense that you have some “god-given right” to go into every foreign land and infect them with your philosophy. Even rip them from their roots and bring them here as slaves (20 % of them Muslims) and deny them any philosophy of any kind. (Didn’t even consider them human beings – and apparently still don’t.) Did you REALLY expect that someday it would not come back to bite you in the ass? (Nature – not superstition – always prevails.) (This is being demonstrated by the LGBT community recently.)
            (Your theory of “incompatibility” cuts both ways – incidentally.)
            Question: Do you believe that most blacks have been and are being killed by other blacks? Do you believe that most Muslims have been and are being killed by other Muslims? Do you believe that most Christians have been and are being killed by other Christians? (Do some research before you answer that last one.) Now please tell me which one has the historical and moral “high road”.

          171. Bill says

            Moslems, Aztecs, head hunters, these are all really fine religions to test under the Constitution. Right now, radical Moslems pretty much resemble head hunters. Show me how that works with our Constitution!

            Maybe you can recite back to me what I said about Christians having rights to go into any foreign land without permission (except in retaliation for an attack). I’d be interested in knowing what I said. Your words, I think, and not mine.

            It may surprise you, but I have never purchased a slave, nor have I advocated slavery, ever, Of course, if I went to a nice Moslem country, I could probably find quite a few people who have done both.

            True, Islam and Christianity are incompatible, in both directions! But the main source of incompatibility, if one tells the truth about it, is that Islam wars continually against other nations, cultures, and beliefs. It is their one-way aggression that makes peace with them impossible, unless some day that attitude changes.

            As to your questions:

            Yes, I believe that blacks are being killed by blacks, and of course there are all kinds of other killings in the world as well.

            Yes, I believe that Muslims have been and are being killed by Muslims.

            No, I don’t believe that most Christians have been and are being killed by other Christians. Note that you chose to use the word “most,” although I can’t imagine why. In case you have Africa in the back of your mind, I confess that I know little about local wars in various countries, but also I would have to question whether much if any of the killing that does happen is genuinely “Christians killing Christians.” I would need to become better informed on the details, but I suspect that there are more political power plays taking place than battles over whose theology is most accurate. If you think this view is wrong, you are more than welcome to provide information, if you decide to do that.

            I don’t know of anyone historically or statistically having a moral “high road.” I only see that some cultures have been fairly tolerant and others have not. Even Islam fits in with tolerance, when it chooses to, such as with Spain’s Caliphate of Cordoba. That amazing ruler even assembled one of the best libraries of worldwide knowledge that this planet has ever seen. (As I understand it, this library was eventually burned to the ground by Islamic fundamentalists.)

            Despite periods of tolerance and non-aggression, Islam unfortunately tends to come back, when convenient, to what it has been doing lately. But even that cycle does not matter. What matters, very simply, is that portions of Islam are currently behaving like a rabid dog, posing a threat to the whole world, and that threat needs to be blocked. This isn’t about Islam (which teaches the violence) as much as it is about the evil people who follow some particular things that the Kor’an tells them to do.

          172. AKLady says

            Recorded history is what it is.
            I am not the follower of any religion.
            I find them to be the scourge of mankind.
            But, if you must know, I was raised and educated as a Catholic.

          173. Bill says

            Thanks. All great to know.

          174. AKLady says

            Islam is no different than any other religion.
            They all teach hate in one form or another.
            For instance, the believe my way or burn for eternity meme ..

          175. Bill says

            To let you know that you have been making serious mistakes with your soul, is hardly an expression of hate. Sorry about how simple and rational that fact is. If you are told, and you are offended and choose to ignore wisdom, that is up to you.

          176. AKLady says

            Do not judge, or you will be judged. For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.… Matthew 7:1-2

          177. Mustafa Curtess says

            “To let you know, etc”. ( As if you “know” something to a certainty that I do not?)
            “Ignore wisdom”? What “wisdom”? Whose “wisdom”? (How “wise” is it to believe in superstition and mythology?) – And then attempt to blatantly present it as “simple and rational fact”. There is nothing even remotely “rational” about it, and the only thing “simple” about it is the gullible and unquestioning minds that imagine it as”fact”.
            (Or at least pretend to.)

          178. Bill says

            You may disagree with Christianity or whatever doesn’t strike your fancy, but just because you disagree doesn’t mean that you know well what you are disagreeing with. Sure, a person new to Christianity can easily go out and excitedly tell others what he has found, and this person is merely sharing a shallow understanding, not much knowledge, and yet a full experience to the extent that it exists. A person mature in the faith and with much study and prayer behind him can share much deeper knowledge. That said, you clearly put no stock in any of it, and that is where you choose to live. Your skepticism is your own issue, though. If you feel that you know what you need to know and you still see nothing of value, then that decides where you will stay. If you have any unanswered questions, or you recognize any mysteries in the universe, or you even realize that there may be a thing or two about spiritual reality that you have yet to learn, perhaps you will be less automatically skeptical. But your effort to discard everything involved here in a single stroke because you haven’t yet been convinced, is a little over the top. There is a very great amount of rationality in Christianity, although even Christians often lack familiarity with it. Of course, there are even those who believe that rationality is contrary to faith, so that is yet another point of view to ponder. I lean toward rationalism simply because I see a tightly integrated, rational pattern in all of reality, and accept readily that this reflects the mind and the nature of the Creator.

            This is a good moment to note the tenor of our conversation. Sometimes we are in the mood to say, “Well, what about this?” However, we have here returned to a quick grumble, “That’s wrong, no good at all.” Thus, sometimes we find things to explore, and other times we just shut things down. It is a natural oscillation, but of course it cuts any efficiency in moving toward a common understanding. Of course, nothing guarantees that a common understanding will ever be reached, but one could hope.

            I hope you are getting out a little bit at the lake. You have been diligent, here, but don’t lose your weekend!

          179. Mustafa Curtess says

            You don’t really read my posts – do you? Second sentence implies that I am “new to Christianity” and later on say (paraphrased)that I don’t know enough about it to understand it sufficiently to make an intelligent, informed judgement about it.
            All this – after me telling you quite clearly that I was born into it, forced to study, memorize, recite, and in short: DROWN in it.
            You have no RIGHT suggest to me that if I knew it as well as you do – then I would just “naturally”believe in it like you do. (It doesn’t work that way with anyone capable of independent thought, and a questioning, rational, intellect.) You are the one that bought a “bill of goods” – not ME!
            So you go on and on telling me how wrong I am (pretty much about everything) – simply because I don’t “buy” the totally “self-evident” spiel of religious scripture.
            Your attitude is that if anyone is very intelligent they will see the “truth” in it – and my conviction is that anyone with the same level of innate intelligence will see it for the fraud that it is. You are so brainwashed that you don’t dare question it – because it tells you (itself!) that your soul will burn in everlasting hell if you do. Good Grief Man! We (supposedly) don’t send men to the gallows without at least SOME credible evidence – and yet you lame-brains convict yourselves of imaginary “crimes” on no compelling “evidence” whatsoever. You spend your lives in mental (and physical) slavery in fairy-tale hope for emancipation after death. That is insanity! Wasting uncounted hours-days-weeks-months in study, cross-referencing, church, “witnessing”, prayer, and thought (doubt), instead of doing things that makes your life and those around you palpably and materially better -for a more satisfactiry human experience.
            (If there were such a thing as “sin” – irresponsibly frittering your one precious physical extence away like that – should be the greatest and most unforgivable one of all. To add insult to injury – you also devote so much effort (and your naturally-limited) time in corrupting others to do likewise!

          180. Bill says

            You are very sensitive, aren’t you? I know that you wrote way back when that you had been raised among Christians and didn’t like it. That told be that you are not new to Christianity, and it also suggested to me that you broke off when you could from a bad experience and probably never learned of the love of Christ or much beyond the basics. So, as an assumption, if I needed to make a guess, I would have thought that you are not new to Christianity, and you are also not deeply studied or experienced in it.

            By your latest claim, perhaps it was being forced to study overly much that robbed you of both the spirit and any deeper knowledge. Anyway, you seem to feel that you know the worst about Christianity, and you apparently have no place open for the best of it. Sorry that that has happened to you.

          181. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yes, Yes. Stop lecturing me. I’m 80 years old. Do you really think that I haven’t already heard that BS a hundred times? (Gosh! It’s like an old record player stuck in one groove.). Or do you see yourself as some kind of “all-seeing Oracle” – and someone is hanging on every word and breathless to hear what you say next. Get A Life!

          182. Bill says

            I’m not really lecturing you, Mustafa. You can believe whatever you want, and be as biggotted as you wish. I was only checking to see whether you would be able and willing to say things that are strictly true. The results are hopeful to a degree, but unfortunately they are also pretty mixed. Lots of broad strokes and vagueness, inaccuracy, defensiveness, and gentle changes of topic. Of course, this is increased during the grunting phases, and it lifts a little during actual discussion. Anyway, after 80 years, you have collected some interesting baggage, and have not yet learned how to diligently focus your thoughts. No problem, though; you rank about average in this.

            I know. I’m blowing smoke as far as you are concerned. However, if you ever wanted to actually discuss facts, I’d be open. You could start by telling me what the good points of Islam are, but I won’t pick at that boil. Substituting a broad assurance that they are the big victims in the world and that they are good but misunderstood, just doesn’t take things beyond what everyone with open eyes can see.

          183. Mustafa Curtess says

            You arrogant a–hole! Nobody can discuss anything with you so long as you appoint yourself judge of what is “strictly true”. (And my undying gratitude for allowing me to “believe what I want” – how magnanimous of you!.)
            FYI: I don’t “want” my beliefs. They come as a consequence of accepting reality (they really aren’t actually “beliefs” – any more than what the “10” on a ten-dollar bill means – is.) (Ooops! I forgot that you are unable to grasp analogy. Never mind – most others who read these exchanges understand it.)
            One last word: You are a fraud and you are the mouthpiece for a hoax. I’m not going to waste any more time humoring you.

          184. Bill says

            You are welcome to speak the truth any time you want, Mustafa. If you do, then I probably will have no comment to make, or I will agree and applaud. But if you get too bigotted and say things that aren’t true, I’m there for you!

          185. Mustafa Curtess says

            “THE TRUTH”! (According to Bill)
            LOL! You sound like Rush Limbaugh – every bit as full of himself (and just as stoned – too.)

          186. AKLady says

            U.S. Constitution, Amendment I

            CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

          187. Bill says

            So, you suggest that our Founders wanted to invite in as many destructive philosophies as they could round up. That makes no sense at all! No, the truth is that they wanted people to be free to worship according to their consciences, and that is the meaning of the First Amendment. You don’t get to leverage that and say that destructive, disrespectful people of any kind are central to the vision of our nation’s Founders and their vision of freedom. Absolutely not. Misusing someone else’s words with no context at all is not a legitimate way to form an argument.

          188. AKLady says

            Defining the 1st Amendment is above your pay grade.

          189. Bill says

            Obviously, it is above yours. You don’t even try to understand the truth.

          190. AKLady says

            The U.S. Supreme Court has defined the 1st Amendment on a number of occasions. Suggest you read the case law and increase your knowledge level.

          191. AKLady says

            Get a better history education.
            The first casualty in the Revolution was a Musim – Crispus Attucks.
            More over he was the son of a Native American and an African slave.
            .
            Our first ally was Morocco, a Muslim country.
            Morocco is also our longest ally — 225 years.
            If it were not for Moroccan ports, we may very well have lost the Revolution.

          192. Bill says

            Are you STILL cutting and pasting your comments? Wow.

          193. AKLady says

            When you mak a comment worth an original rwsponse, you’ll get an original. Now, stop lying.

          194. AKLady says

            First they came for the Muslims, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Muslim

            Then they came for the Hispanics and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Hispanics..

            Then they came for the Poor and You did not speak out —
            Because You were not Poor.

            Then they came for the Disabled and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Disabled.

            Then they came for the Jews, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Jew.

            Then they came for the Elderly, and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Elderly.

            Then they came for You—and there was no one left to speak for You.
            ( a variation on Martin Niemoller’s famous poem).

          195. richard king says

            You mean educate myself to lie about my credentials, like you do, doctor, counselor? Fraud.
            You don’t speak for what the founders did, you speak for radical Muslims and lefty causes.
            Freedom of religion is one thing. murder in the name of Allah Akbar is another.

          196. AKLady says

            All terrorists are not Muslims.
            All Muslims are not terrorists,

            Here is a list of home-grown terror groups of which are Christian:

            Animal Liberation Front, Alpha 66, The Jewish Defense League, Omega 7, Army of God, Aryan Nations, Black Liberation Army. The Covenant. Earth Liberation Front, The Sword, The Arm of the Lord, Ku Klux Klan (Now International), Church of the Almighty God, May 19th Organization, Occupy Wall Street, The Order, Phineas Priesthood, Sovereign Citizens, The Crips, Symbioses Liberation Army, United Freedom Front, Weathermen, The Silent Brotherhood, Phineas Priesthood, and Eastern Lightening

          197. richard king says

            Almost all terrorists are Muslims. Many of these organizations either no longer exist or are leftist. No one has heard of many of them, and your comment is full of your usual fiction.
            Fraud, liar, and carrier of the banner of Islam and dimm fake news.

          198. AKLady says

            U.S. Constitution, Amendment I

            CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

          199. richard king says

            Yes, this is an exerpt from the constitution, with which I am very familiar.
            Your point?

          200. AKLady says

            A small sample of Christian terror in the U.S.:

            The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009.
            Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012.
            Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008
            The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994

          201. COMPU-TRON says

            Not the US, but don’t forget the Quebec attack November 2016!

          202. AKLady says

            Thank you for reminding us.
            I do not condone terror,
            however I cannot abide religious bigotry,

          203. COMPU-TRON says

            As is murder in the name of Yahweh, or Jesus Christ, or Ganesha, etc. don’t go overboard, every religion has extremists.

          204. Mustafa Curtess says

            Whoa! She hasn’t advocated killing ANYBODY! She deplores killing of any kind – especially in the name of religion.

          205. richard king says

            What are you, her mouthpiece? She appears to support radical Islam; by definition, advocating killing infidels.

          206. COMPU-TRON says

            She really doesn’t advocate killing. Don’t blow it out of proportion.

          207. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Her mouthpiece”? That gal is so sharp – I am probably an embarrassment to her.
            I offer my two cents worth because people pretend to mis-understand her.
            Like your comment: I have followed her for months – and no way she “appears” to support any kind of Islam. “Advocating killing infidels”? Not hardly – since she and I are two of the extremely few genuine “infidels” in the conversation.

          208. richard king says

            She supports no kind of Islam? Bull, she talks the talk, and wears a babushka or whatever they call those mandatory headdresses.
            If people misunderstand her,perhaps she can articulate clearly in the future.

          209. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Babushka”? (You got me there – I thought it had something to do with Russian Grandmothers.) So you know her personally?
            Gosh! I don’t know how anyone could “articulate” more clearly. You just confirmed my statement that some people PRETEND to misunderstand her (as a way to avoid tangling with her intellectually).
            I tried to do that when I first debated her. (It just can’t be done. Anybody as sharp as she is – would end up agreeing with her.)
            My best advice would be to relax and learn something useful from her. (I sure have.)
            (But on the other hand – you have to antagonize her to get any good info. So keep up the good work.)

          210. richard king says

            Babushka is a word describing head covering that almost completely covers the head, common previously in Russia and eastern Europe. It is very similar to the burkas, or whatever, that Muslim men force their women to wear, so I sometimes use it as a generic term. As a Muslim, I thought you would appreciate it. No offense intended, of course.
            I’ve only heard this genius talk once, and then only briefly, but I’ll stand by my assertion; maybe if I hear her again it won’t sound so much like dissembling.

          211. Mustafa Curtess says

            Thank you. I may have been confused because older Russian women usually wear some head covering.
            Not every Muslim country uses the Burkah. I rarely saw one in Egypt – and then only visitors from other countries.
            One country I was in – many women chose to wear the equavalent of Burkah over their husband’s objections. They enjoyed the privacy and anonymity – plus protection of their faces from the sun. 30 -40 years of exposure to sun typical of desert countries (not to mention the frequent sandstorms) isn’t kind to female faces.
            Plus men tend to be more respectful of modestly dressed females. Mal-treatment of females is in general greatly exaggerated to suit the popular narrative at the present time.

          212. richard king says

            Egyptians have done away with the Musiim Brotherhood and its strict customs. There are still renegades there who are trying to reimpose sharia law. Which, by the way, appears to require this dress code.
            You are obviously knowledgeable and make good points. It does beg the question why I was recently virtually surrounded by women so attired while shopping in a grocery store on the Pacific Coast on a cool, cloudy day.
            From what I know, the privacy issue is imposed by males who do not want other males to see the women, the same root as barring women from accompanying other, non-family males on the streets. I’ve read that’s a death penalty offense in some places, even leading to honor killings in the US. (few).
            So, a sincere question, based on a large number of Muslims in nearby communities: why do Muslim people want to come and live in a culture like this, so different?

          213. Retired says

            It ain’t no lady .

          214. AKLady says

            Are you really that ignorant?

          215. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            No, Muslims are dangerous to our country.

          216. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            And the whole world.

          217. AKLady says

            Islam has been part of America since before we became a nation.
            You insult those serving in our military.
            Your insult your fellow Americans.
            You insult those who gave their lives in the American Revolution.
            Your insult our allies.

          218. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I am not trying to insult anyone, I just don’t trust Muslims, since they seem to want to take over where ever they settle with their own laws and immoral practices and I don’t like the fact that they consider me an infidel and their religion says to kill me.

          219. AKLady says

            Nowhere in the Quran did God say to kill innocent unbelievers.
            Provide proof for your claim.

            The Bible says your are to kill unbelievers: Deuteronomy 13:6, Deuteronomy 13: 13, Deuteronomy 17:3, 2 Chronicles 15:13, Leviticus 20:27, Matthew 15:1-9, Romans 1:20-32, and Matthew 5:42-44.

            There is more, but that should educate you a bit better.

          220. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I can’t do that Lady, I don’t have a Quran, I just know that Muslims are now killing Christians every chance they get.

          221. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            And all non-Muslims.

          222. AKLady says

            The Quran is published on the Internet, just as are the holy books of every religion. Religious war? That is as good of an excuse as any. It is making Bush, Trump, Koch Brothers and their buddies very rich.

          223. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Yes Lady it looks like we are about to repeat history once again only this time we Christians are not fighting for the holy land we are fighting for our very survival.

          224. AKLady says

            Almost every tine you post, you prove that you are not a Christian.
            You have no concept what it is to be a Christian.

          225. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Lady how about you tell me what it takes to be a Christian??

          226. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yes – he really is.

          227. AKLady says

            No doubt, you claim to be a Christian.
            You have obviously been well-brainwashed.
            Islam is the world’s second largest religion.
            You are damning 1.6 billion people for the acts od a few thousand.

          228. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Yes quite a few thousand and growing, no I don’t claim to be a Christian, I am a Christian and I will fight the so called religion of Islam to the death if need be.

          229. AKLady says

            Your words say something very different than your ckiams.

            …You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.… Matthew 5:43-45

          230. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            That is a very accurate quote of the bible, thank you for that. I do pray for my enimies and I wish them well but not here in my country, they are my enemies and don’t belong in my country.

          231. AKLady says

            Your largest enemy is in your heart and mind.

          232. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            No it isn’t lady, its people like you to be specific, Muslims who hate Christians and Jews and want to wipe us off the face of the earth which is never going to happen.

          233. AKLady says

            There are 1.6 billion Muslims.
            If the lie you tell were factual, you would already be dead.
            Enough with the hate and bigotry.
            You embarrass America.

          234. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            You got it all wrong lady, I fight for America especially to keep it free of tyranny rule by Muslims and demonrats too.

          235. AKLady says

            Enough with the hate and bigotry.
            You embarrass America.

          236. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I do not embarrass real Americans that are for America and I still say this country would be much better off without Muslims and demonrats.

          237. AKLady says

            The “real America” fought and died for religious freedom.
            If you do not like our freedoms, I suggest you leave.

          238. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Ladies first, let me get the door for you.

          239. AKLady says

            The “real America” fought and died for religious freedom.
            If you do not like our freedoms, I suggest you leave.

          240. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I like our freedoms, I don’t like Muslims who are a very real threat to our freedoms in this country and the world.

          241. AKLady says

            My ancestors fought and died for religious freedom. If you cannot support that Constitutional Right, get out of America.

            A Sample of Historic Contributors to America: Crispus Attucs, Yarrow Mamout, Estevanico, Norsereddin, “Hi Jolly”, Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori, Ayuba Suleiman Diallo, Omar Ibn Said, Bampett Muhammad, Yusuf Ben Ali, Peter Buckminster,

            A Sample of Modern Contributors to America: Fazlur Rahman Khan, Shahid Khan, Ayub Ommaya, Ernest Hamwi, Shaquille O’Neal, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Farah Pandith, Ahmed Zewail, Aziz Ansari

          242. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            You forgot Muhammad Ali and Barack Obuma, some contributors to their own pocket books that is.

          243. AKLady says

            My ancestors fought and died for religious freedom.
            If you cannot support that Constitutional Right, get out of America.

          244. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            But ladey islam is not a religion, it is an army bent on taking over the entire world, but it will never happen just as other tyrants have failed so will Muslims.

          245. AKLady says

            Ignorant, bigoted one, there are 1.6 BILLION Muslims.
            If they wanted you dead, you would already be in your grave.
            .
            You embarrass America.
            You embarrass us befire our allied
            You insult everything our Founders fought and died for.
            .
            If you cannot abide by our law — get out of America.

          246. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I am a law abiding citizen of our laws not sharia law, Muslims not welcome here.

          247. AKLady says

            You mean that Sharia Law based on the 10 Commandments?
            That is Jewish-Roman Sharia ..
            Stop embarrassing America with your ignorance and hate.
            .
            Freedom of religion is the basis this country was built upon.
            Muslims are very welcome, America might not exist without them.

            The first casualty of the American Revolution was Muslim – Crispus Attucks.

            Our first ally was Morocco a Muslim country which provided access to its ports, through which we brought arms, munitions, and supplies during the Revolution. Not only was Morocco our first ally, it is also our longest ally — 225 years of unbroken support and friendship.
            America has many Muslim allies. They include: Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain,Cambodia, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Morocco, Myanmar, Pakistan, Qatar, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uganda. United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

          248. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            That was then, now its a question of survival, we want to keep our country Christian, Muslims not welcome here.

          249. AKLady says

            “The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.”
            John Adams

            “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
            James Madison — Letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

            “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
            Thomas Jefferson — in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

            “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
            Thomas Jefferson — in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

            “The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
            Founding Father James Madison, 1819

            “Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”
            James Madison — letter, 1822

            “Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?”
            John Adams

            “It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov’t from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others.”
            James Madison, “James Madison on Religious Liberty”, edited by Robert S. Alley, ISBN 0-8975-298-X. pp. 237-238.

          250. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            We must not allow a religion and I use that word for islam loosely indeed, take over our land, its a barbaric to say the least religion, which abuses women and children and has no regard for family life what so ever. Muslims stay in your own countries, you are not welcome here.

          251. AKLady says

            You confuse culture and religion.

            Islam has been part of America, since before it became a Nation. Muslims played a very important part in our Revolution. Please stop insulting your neighbors and fellow Americans. Please stop insulting America’s allies.

            The first casualty of our Revolution was a Muslim — Crispus Attucks. Other historic Muslim contributors include: Yarrow Mamout, Estevanico, Norsereddin, “Hi Jolly”, Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori, Ayuba Suleiman Diallo, Omar Ibn Said, Bampett Muhammad, Yusuf Ben Ali, Peter Buckminster

            Our first ally was a Muslim nation — Morocco. Our longest ally is also Muslim — 225 years, again Morocco. Other Muslim allies include: Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain,Cambodia, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Morocco, Myanmar, Pakistan, Qatar, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uganda. United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

          252. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Please tell Muslims to stop killing innocent people everywhere, including many of there own people.

          253. Frank B. says

            Don’t worry sugar– I’ll protect you, in exchange for—?

          254. Frank B. says

            But this is America. All religions and faiths are always welcome!

          255. AKLady says

            “Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that I do not believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities. But as we know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the possibility of such oppression.”
            Oliver Wolcott, Connecticut Ratifying Convention, 9 January 1788

            “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.”
            Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

            “God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.”
            John Adams

            “As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
            John Adams — letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

            “The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?”
            John Adams

            “God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”
            Isaac Backus — An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

          256. Frank B. says

            No– See all of us who are not Muslims, may also not be Christian. So you need to keep your bigotry to yourself!

          257. Frank B. says

            You’re a racist bigot skank!

          258. Frank B. says

            It’s as much a religion as Christianity is.

          259. AKLady says

            Matthew 5:44 King James Version (KJV)
            But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

          260. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Boy, lady, that is a very very hard thing to do, I don’t think I can do that.

          261. AKLady says

            Being a Christian is not the easiest life.

          262. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Life itself is not easy, I must choose what is best for my family and my self, martyrdom is something I cannot choose, unless God Himself tells me to, I never will.

          263. Mustafa Curtess says

            Presenting all that carefully-researched and irrefutable proof: That you are no better than Muslims are – is not “defending” them. They can’t be defended – and neither can Christians.

          264. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Christians are the ones being persecuted now, but as a Christian I aim to turn that around, what goes around, comes around, Muslims beware of us Christians we have had enough of your shit.

          265. Mustafa Curtess says

            Baloney! Anytime a Christian doesn’t get his way – he feels “persecuted”. Yes, Those two bible-thumpers in the WH are going to get you everything you want. (First step for biblical law to supercede constitutional law, and best way I can think of to drive freedom-loving people away from the church.). Do whatever you want to Muslims – I don’t give a rat’s ass. Nothing “gone around TO come around” (except in your paranoid imagination).

          266. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Sorry to pop your bubble but we Christians and Jews I might add have been persecuted and blamed for the world’s problems from the beginning of history till now, so what’s new in the world. God has told us we are in the world but not of the world, our home is not here, it is in heaven.

          267. Mustafa Curtess says

            Excuse me. I thought you were referring to the reality of today in the USA – where you are in the vast majority, exercise all the political influence, and write all the civil laws that rules everybody – whether they believe in religion or not.
            I have no idea what you are complaining about or want that you want that you don’t already have. The only thing I can think of – is that Biblical law does not yet supercede Constitutional law, and it very much appears that will be reversed as soon as Trump-Pence can pack the courts with religious right judges.
            In your position I would be celebrating instead of complaining.
            Hmmm! Now if all you “Judeo-Christians” and “Muslims” would just GO to your “home in heaven” – any number of wonderful possibilities exist for us modern, freedom-loving folks and for the future of our species.

          268. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            People like you who do not choose between good and evil are not to be trusted because when push comes to shove you will always side with the side that is winning hence saving yourselfes at any cost.

          269. Mustafa Curtess says

            From your perspective that may seem quite true.
            For all the good it can do – I will rationalize it for you. Where you see “good and evil”, “people like me” see only two evils. Then there is the human right (and obligation) of “self-preservation” – bolstered by the fact that the future of mankind has always depended upon OUR survival. (When you consider how destructive “religion” has been throught history – and how fundamentally suicidal religious people are.)

          270. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Don’t quite understand you, your thinking seems to be much different than mine, what country are you from?

          271. Mustafa Curtess says

            I’m from Oklahoma – but I can’t see how anybody has to be from a foreign country to disagree with you. Do you reckon the 50% of voters that voted for Hilary are all from somewhere else? ( If so – I would agree that we really DO have an “immigration problem”.)

          272. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            We do have a voter fraud problem in this country, mostly in the heavily populated black areas of the country.

          273. AKLady says

            There are 1.6 billion Muslims.
            If all were terrorists, you would already be dead.

          274. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            War is on the horizon, hope i’m wrong but it don’t look good.

          275. AKLady says

            American has been at war since 2003.
            First in Iraq, then both Iraq and Afghanistan.
            Why America figured it could do what Russia could not ???
            Yes, Russia spent decades fighting in Afghanistan before us.

          276. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            I blame our moron president Bush for that and his advisors.

          277. AKLady says

            He made a lot of money for his family and his friends.

          278. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Bush was a puppet president and very lucky he only had a shoe thrown at him.

          279. richard king says

            So finally, the retired surgeon, retired lawyer, and brilliant debater in her log cabin in Alaska ventures out to inform us of her hatred for Christians and love for Muslims, who wouldn’t think of genocide by beheading every Christian in the middle east.

          280. Retired says

            She / It is a troll full of anti USA BS .

          281. Uzoozy says

            She is the best, lay off she can handle people like you in a second,

          282. Retired says

            How do you know it’s a she and not a It , have you been sniffing the panties ???

          283. Joseph Gutowski says

            Sit back and watch

          284. AKLady says

            Children see everything as black and white.
            Are you that ignorant, or just that bigoted?

          285. usmcltc says

            OMG, those Christians are terrible people, right? They are just the opposite of those peace loving Muslim terrorists who love to lop off heads just for the fun of it. I now know where YOU are coming from. The next time you meet a Christian, make sure that he/she understands how you REALLY feel about Christians.

          286. Retired says

            Somehow they missed her/It , must still be putting out to them other wise she/it be gone ,they like old holes

          287. AKLady says

            Truth is always ugly.

            Christian history is not very pretty, is it?’

            Religion is the scourge of mankind — all religion. It is an additional layer of power and control. It has been the cause of many wars and the basis for more killing than you care to admit.
            Here is a short list to get your memory working: The Crusades, The Inquisition, The witch hunts, The Peasants War, French Wars of rebellion, Massacre at Vassy, The Thirty Years War, Pope Sixtus V, Irish Rebellion, Democide in the Americas, Democide in Africa, Democide in Australia, The papal bull Romanus Pontifex – 1455, Slavery in the Americas, Leopold II, King of the Belgians – butcher of the Congo Free State 1885-1908, The Holocaust, Catholic Nazi State in Croatia, Lebanon War, Sabta and Shatila Massacre, Serb Orthodox genocide, Protestant death squads in Ireland, The Rwandan genocide, Zimbabwe — Catholic protection of Mugabe, Lord’s Resistance Army, Central African Republic Catholic murdering of those who won’t convert …, Americans killing physicians and bombing medical clinics, Americans killing church congregations; America – the KKK murders (they are now international terrorists).

          288. usmcltc says

            “Religion is the scourge of mankind — all religion.” So YOU say! It must be quite a burden to have all of the answers to the world’s problems. Do you include Muslims and their beliefs in your “scourge of mankind” or just Christians.
            Please don’t tell ME what I should believe in, and I will not tell you not to be an atheist who can’t make up her mind if there is a God or not.

          289. AKLady says

            Maybe you should increase your reading comprehension.
            I said all religions.

            More murder has occurred based on religion than any other reason — 6 – 11 million in WW II. Religion teaches hate — all religions. Christianity is based on fear; Believe my way or burn in hell.

            You are terribly confused. Atheism is a denial of God, not refusal to become part of a cult.

          290. Mustafa Curtess says

            I am certainly not confused about anything – and there’s nothing that I “can’t make up my mind about”. I’m not in “denial” of a god, either – because I could never really believe that such a thing could exist. (I honestly can’t imagine how any rational person COULD believe it.)

          291. AKLady says

            My response was to usmcltc

            I do no think you are in the least confused. I am basically a Deist. While can consider a “Creator” the idea of a “being” involved with everything, every day, every hour…, is a bit of a stretch. Frankly, the entire religion concept is simply another layer of power and control.

            The afterlife seems to be a myth designed to ease the fear if death. The energy cannot be created nor destroyed sums it up nicely.

            I certainly do not need the threat of eternal fire to control my actions.
            Right v. wrong is cultural. Moral v. immoral is cultural.
            Every culture has its own laws. While some are universal, none seem to be absolute.

          292. Mustafa Curtess says

            I was mainly responding to usmcltc’s crack that you are “an Atheist that can’t make up her mind, etc”. Perhaps you are – but I wanted to make sure that he understand that every Atheist is not in that position.
            My “take” on the “afterlife” myth – is that something has convinced them that their lives are too important to ever really end. (I guess religion did that?) And that the nature of their personal “eternity” is dictated by their obedience and sacrifice of the essence of being part of nature as a human. (So incredibly, heartbreakingly, sad.)
            They claim that they have “free will” – but subliminally they know that they do not. (That is tatamount to telling a slave that he has free will – but it is the lash if he gets caught exercising it.)

          293. AKLady says

            Religion is simply another layer of power and control

          294. Mustafa Curtess says

            In some instances an absolute one – for all practical purposes. I’ve known people who could not make conversation on any subject but religion – and others who insist to inject references to religion in every conversation about anything. (That is very common in comments here and on facebook. Very distracting and very boring. A compulsion I can not fathom.). Can you imagine someone like Franklin Graham as POTUS? ( It will eventually happen. Don’t forget that Pat Robertson made a run at nomination – and was supported by a shockingly large number of voters. Brrrrr!)

          295. AKLady says

            Should a member of the extremist right-wing become president, our Republic would probably become a theocracy. A protestant theocracy. It would spell the end of the 1st Amendment. It is people of that ilk who claim America is a Christian country. Such a government would be the twin of the Communism such people claim to despise.

          296. Mustafa Curtess says

            Frankly – I think we are seeing the beginnings of that right now. (I’m pretty sure that Franklin Graham was strategically asked to distance himself from the Trump Admin. because his presence might “give up the game” – and he willingly complied “for the good of the cause”.)
            We will know more in the fall – if the SC rules that the individual’s religious “feelings” has precedence over everyone else’s Civil Rights. (Add another arch-conservative SC Justice, or two, and “the die is cast”.)
            The First Amendment doesn’t have to “end” (keeping it – gives them the pretext that nothing has changed) – a “Constructionist” (legislative) SC will merely translate it differently. (Giving the Christians everything they want – while pretending that the Court doesn’t.). No need to officially “establish a State Religion” – either. Merely TREAT Protestant Christianity as if it is – with “plausable deniability”. (No secret to some of us – how underhanded and conniving Christians have always been. “Oh, No We could NEVER do THAT – because the Bible tells us to be Loving and Forgiving”. They aren’t even “loving and forgiving” of each other. (Bunch of sanctimonious hypocrites!)

          297. AKLady says

            Yes, we are seeing the beginning, however, we may have time to stop it.
            However, I think the American people are blinded by bigotry.
            There is nothing loving or forgiving about Christians. The evidence on this blog makes the slightest suggestion of real Christianity a laughing matter.

          298. Mustafa Curtess says

            Not to give encouragment to the enemy. I do not see how it can be stopped – considering the disarray the Democrat party is in. I don’t see a viable candidate in their ranks, and even if they had one with a coherent and well-articulated plarform I can’t imagine a win in 2020 – unless Trump mis-steps incredibly badly ( Which may very well be at any moment). The only other hope is that enough moderate Christians consider that they do not want to live in a dictatorial theocracy and begin exerting some common-sense influence. Given the monolithic, lock-step, everyone spies on and reports everybody else (if they show even the least indication of independent thought, hesitation, or “waywardness”) fundamentalist Christian character – that is a very forlorn hope. A government composed of appointees vetted by the “Southern Baptist Convention” would be an equally revolting variation of 1984. (They are so brainwashed that they are morally-obliged to “witness” that they want it – even if they really don’t.)
            (Incredibly: When I read 1984 (once!) so many years ago – I had a sense if “deja’ vu” from conversations I have had with Christians about a “perfect Christian world”. I haven’t forgotten it – because it still haunts me.) The ultimate tyranny and the ultimate humanitarian nightmare.

          299. usmcltc says

            I really feel sorry for you, as you obviously live a tormented life.

          300. AKLady says

            Right v. wrong.
            Moral v. Immoral.
            Those are cultural decisions.

            Religion is simply another level of power and control. When stripped of myth, it becomes clear that they are a mix of old rules for promoting social cooperation and new ones for enforcing social conformity.

          301. usmcltc says

            I stand by MY statement!

          302. Bill says

            Truth is not always ugly! What gives you such a perverted idea? If you see truth only as ugly, it is because ugliness is where you exclusively choose to live, and it rubs off on you. Boy, does it rub off.

          303. Mustafa Curtess says

            Please tell me any part of this predicament that is NOT “ugly”. (If there is a “good” side to it – I would love to hear about it.)
            Yes – eventually it will pass – but the world will be the worse for it. I think that about the same 20 % of the world population that are Muslim now – will still be Muslim when it is over. So tell me what you think will be accomplished?

          304. Bill says

            The statement was that truth is always ugly, not that this predicament is ugly. The statement was false, whatever may exist in the predicament.

            But your challenge is valid. In this predicament, if people choose to kill each other, that is pretty ugly. If they choose to discuss their issues and honestly work for a satisfactory compromise, however difficult that discussion might be, then that is not nearly so ugly. Although the Moslems in the picture are clearly all helpless victims, because that is the popular narrative, they are continually choosing war instead of discussion. In fact, after every discussion that seems to offer a little possible progress, the radical Moslem factions again choose war, and no solution other than murder ever seems acceptable to them. Their rants on television about raising young men to be suicide bombers says a lot about that. You may think that they have no option to talk and get things straightened out, but frankly, I have yet to see them seriously try for a peaceful solution and an agreement that they will keep. This is what I honestly see happening. Always just enough peace for just enough time to get another chance to shoot someone in the back. And this is literal. The bodies keep piling up, and the Islamic radicals seem to care about almost nothing else. Ugliness is a choice that some people are making over and over, and of course ugliness stays around when people insist upon it. I don’t understand why, but there seems much truth in the Biblical verse that says of Ishmael (Gen 16:12), “And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him….”

          305. Mustafa Curtess says

            It would be so much easier if you could bear to look at it from the Muslim experience.
            I can’t argue with “the Muslims are this – and the Muslims are that”, when the context is carefully ignored. No doubt the Muslims HAVE been difficult to negotiate with – but always because something was being taken from them or demanded of them – and there was no logic in giving up easily. Again – I must ask you to recognize WHOSE armies are WHERE? Somalia was in a famine. They weren’t attacking a neighbor or another country 10,000 miles away, or a threat to ANYBODY. Why was it just arbitrarily destroyed? Ditto Afghanistan. It was occupied by the Soviets, the Afghani’s welcomed the U.S. to help them throw the Soviets out, and the C.I.A. formed al-Qaida to conduct guerrilla warfare, with U.S. strategists, intelligence, and weaponry. The Soviets left Afghanistan largely as they found it (but no longer a Kingdom). The Americans found other reasons to remain, and began interfering in Afghani domestic affairs worse than the Soviets had. (Now – you want to mention bad-faith and duplicity in negotiations, lies and betrayals – the Americans can teach you a thing or two.) When it became clear that the Americans had never had any INTENTION of leaving – once they got their foot in the door – that is when things got rough. Nobody can negotiate with the USA from a position of such weakness, and OBL took it in his foolish, irresponsible head to show the U.S. that al-Qaida was not absolutely helpless – and the WTC came down.
            (All the verbal complaints and “negotiations” had not achieved ANYTHING, and violence was the only option remaining.)
            (The Taliban had been allowed to take over because it could best stabilize the country – then the U.S. betrayed it, too.)
            From the comfort of our homes – it is too easy to discuss what “could have been” or what “should have been” – but the Afghani’s never had that luxury.
            I dislike the idea of suicide bombers as much as you do, I am probably more vulnerable than you are (if I had been in Orlando I could easily have been in that night club). But at least I have the honesty to recognize why it is – and to cririsize my government for not making ANY changes – to make it stop. That might be “locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen” – but at least it is something besides more of the same. Now you can blame Islam all you want to – but the responsibility (and the solution) is squarely in the hands of U.S. foreigh policy in the M.E. – and there is no way to deny it. (And there is a HUGE difference between muslims killing each other vs being killed by a foreign “Christian” nation. They are just as dead – but with entirely different implications and consequences.) WE started this – and only WE can end it.
            I can almost guarantee that abusing innocent American Muslims is not going to have the slightest positive effect.
            Remember: WHOSE military forces are WHERE – and WHAT are they Doing there?
            (Except maybe inspiring a new generation of suicide bombers.) The USA simply does not respond to verbal complaints – in fact: We are insulted by them.

          306. Bill says

            But these are all excuses, Mustafa. This is like saying that a dog that is rabid should be free to bite people, just because he’s unhappy about something.

            Indeed, if all an aggrieved person is willing to do is shoot you the minute that you aren’t looking, that person is asking to be put down. If they want to talk and work out a formal agreement, which they then abide by, suddenly they are choosing to act like civilized people that other civilized people can deal with.

            I have not heard about agreements that have been broken with Islamic peoples (as, for example, one finds easily enough with American Indians, who did enter honorably into several losing propositions), because I am not aware of an agreement having ever been formed that Moslems are genuinely trying to keep. It is as if any agreement is not really an agreement, but rather just a way to create an illusion of peace in preparation for another violent attack. If there are all kinds of agreements in place that everyone else is violating, then Moslems need to bring those agreements forward and tell the world at last in an honest way about how they are being mistreated. Right now, I don’t think that idea exists as even fake news, but of course if you can forward this to CNN, I’m sure some good narrative can be made up.

            Anyway, in this situation where I don’t see Moslems pushing for peace or justice, it doesn’t seem like they should expect what they are not trying to gain. Death, they are indeed trying to gain, and they aren’t likely to reach an agreement with anyone on that. This is their choice, of course, but then hopefully there is no surprise about what they get from that attitude. I’m not sure it is something that you really want to defend, unless you feel that murder is a proper step toward reconciliation and peace. I’m not going to call myself or my nation guilty of anything, if that is the way that Moslems choose to negotiate. Again, it’s ENTIRELY their choice. As long as they continue to choose war, murder and chaos, they deserve to receive what they insist upon.

            Obviously, the US is having discussions with Iraq and Afghanistan, because they are seeking a stable life where they can govern their own countries. With ISIS, it is outright war, because that is what those people have chosen. Iraq and Afghanistan thus deserve to find peace in an agreement by which all parties abide, and ISIS only deserves to be wiped out. There is no excuse for what they have chosen. When the US is formally asked to leave a country by the people and government of that country, I have not seen it unilaterally refuse to do so, even though the imperialist narrative sounds good. Maybe you can correct me on this.

          307. Mustafa Curtess says

            Lol! Like a Christian would ever let you get a word edgewise to even express your feeling. If you force the issue – it invariably results in the threat of “damnation and fire”.
            Christians don’t dare even CONSIDER the possibility that they could be wrong about ANYTHING. (If they do – their house of cards “collapses and burns”.)

          308. Bill says

            Believe it or not, Mustafa, this Christian appreciates what you have to say somewhat more than what comes out of AKLady, just because you do seem to think a little deeper. No race or religion issues here. However, if you get too bigotted about race and religion, or say things that simply do not add up to truth, I’m here for you.

          309. Mustafa Curtess says

            Thanks! Not much chance of me being “racial” – but I will admit that I’m inclined to go off the deep-end on religion sometimes (not just Christianity, by far) and probably deserve to be called out on it by more reasonable people. (Any way besides being cussed out or condemned to a hell that I do not believe exists – will do the trick.
            I really try to be a thoughtful person – and I actually am easily humbled by truth and sincerity.
            So I will be counting on you.

          310. Bill says

            Reasoned and honest conversation sounds good to me, Mustafa! I know you are Islamic and devoted to it. I’m happy to share respect as a two-way street, you will understand. Now, if you have no problem with that, AND you can assure me that all of Islam is on that same page, then I have no problem with Islam, except that I don’t happen to believe in it. But it doesn’t seem quite that simple.

            The problem that I do have with Islam is not its particular beliefs, since beliefs are beliefs and they are as varied as they are sincere. The main problem lies in all the throat cutting and terrorism that Islamic fundamentalists have been carrying out. That does not look like Islam respecting other cultures and religions. Would you care to comment on that little problem, in the most realistic way possible? If Islam is doctrinally bound to disrespect other cultures and religions, as seems to be the case, then I don’t see a way for radical Muslims to get along with anyone who is not a Moslem in good standing. Of course, the Islamic radicals continually call for the rest of the world to respect and understand them. That is not exactly a two-way street. Any suggestions for a real solution?

          311. Mustafa Curtess says

            I honestly am not Islamic and I am not “devoted” to it. The only thing I am devoted to is avoiding bloodshed based on lies and distortions.
            I have no way to “assure” anybody about anything. Blood-lust is up so high that nobody will allow themselves to be assured. (Would take all the “fun” out of it.)
            A real solution would be to accept the fact that Islam is here to stay, calm down, and join them in their struggle against our common enemy. (You DO understand that our government’s (so far largely symbolic) opposition to ISIS is purely political – don’t you?)
            If it had stayed out of the USA – nobody would care how many people it kills.
            Trump talks about it only because that is what his constuents want to hear.
            I’m signing off for the weekend. Will be miles away from my internet connection.
            (Google “Hippie Hollow” Austin, Texas.)

          312. Bill says

            Thank you for the correction, Mustafa. I didn’t realize that you were not Islamic. AKLady always defends it with little reasoning behind her claims, and you seemed to like what she says, so I made an assumption.

            No doubt, you are right. If people in a far-off land with their own beliefs and issues want to kill each other, that does tend to get less attention than when those people invade your shores or attack you personally. But, since some face-to-face conflict has been so politically invited, you of course have no surprise that some Americans are taking a close look on how severely their homeland and their way of life stands to be affected.

            I must say that, when anyone picks up a weapon and starts looking at me as a target, I can’t just accept that the person is here to stay, and calm down, and join them against some other enemy. Until that first part is resolved, I can’t consider the problem solved or things to be okay. I’m sure I am not alone in this view, and that you understand it, too. So, a solution still seems to elude us.

            Have fun at Hippie Hollow! Dress warm!

          313. Mustafa Curtess says

            Lol! Your view is solidly in the majority. And I agree with your reaction to anybody coming at you with a weapon (or a threat of any kind). My frustration is in our adamant refusal to question WHY someone might do that.
            Then the unthinkable notion that we have some “divine right” to run around all over the globe aggressively pursuing our perceived “best interests” – without any regard whatsoever for anyone else’s. (We can’t imagine that they even have or deserve any interest that does not coincide with our own.)
            Every negative consequence we are experiencing was predictable (as a casual student of human nature, I saw it coming 60 years ago).
            But instead we are in stunned shock when the inevitable manifests itself. “How DARE they?” “How incredibly perverse for anyone to retaliate in this underhanded way?”
            Regardless what anyone says – I can not be considered “unpatriotic” by hoping that my country will reconsider its policy of repeating the same mistake over and over – expecting it to eventually have a good outcome. I take no responsibility for ISIS or international “terrorism” of any kind. (Nothing in my philosophy could have produced it.)
            lol! Events delayed my departure for Hippie Hollow until tomorrow. (One doesn’t “dress warm” in Texas in July.)

          314. Bill says

            My own way of lodging a complaint would usually be verbal, and not attempting to blow up the World Trade Center. A person who expresses a complaint by murdering people does not want to negotiate, and so it is fully justified to respond in kind. This is simply to say, if a person has an issue with me, let them speak, I will understand, and then the problem can be solved. An attack intends injury before anything else, so it does not so easily lead to a solution, only to ongoing warfare. So, while I would be curious about why a person is angry, I still think it is up to that person, as an exclusive choice, either to seek resolution of the problem, or violence. There is no point in being attacked and then sitting there, wondering why, if the “victim” won’t even offer a conversation. Start with a refusal to genuinely talk and seek a solution, and add to that the pattern of the adversary shooting you in the back and stealthily ambushing you, and you have an adversary who deserves nothing better than a severe smackdown, in my opinion.

            The idea of dressing warm for Hippie Hollow in July was a joke. You said to Google it, and at that point I noticed something about it being a “clothing optional” lake. So, dress warm! But do have fun.

          315. Mustafa Curtess says

            First of all – I apreciated the joke about clothing and intended my reply to be an amusing comment about the way visitors to the hollow dress. I was quite pleased that you Googled it on my recommendation.
            About registering “verbal complaints” – instead of violent ones: Do you seriously expect being invaded and destroyed by a foreign military to be responded to by verbal complaints? Do you consider American civilian lives to be more valuable than people’s in foreign countries? Do you think that that images of the collapse of WTC hurt Americans worse than the citizens of Baghdad did as they watched their city being systematically destroyed by day after day of relentless destruction by American military technology – and terrified that the next missile could obliterate themselves? I think maybe you don’t know what “terror” really IS.
            By NO MEANS an Arab sympathizer: Robert Fisk is without doubt the best source of facts about U.S. conduct in Iraq.
            I am saddened that for all your “reasonability” you still display the American “double standard”. “My country, right or wrong – and everybody else is just chopped liver”.

          316. Bill says

            You say I have a double standard, as if I ever condoned killing people somewhere. I don’t even know what you are trying to say! What “double standard” do you think I have? You are setting me up as a straw man and putting into my mouth any words that you seem to like. Not much appreciated, I’ll admit, although I will hold off on assuming that racism or something else has overtaken you. If you are willing, I’d be glad to understand what the burr under your saddle is about, as well as why you are using wild stereotypes to suggest that I and everyone else is victimizing you..

          317. Mustafa Curtess says

            No – I only notice that (perhaps instinctively) you hold Muslims to a higher standard than you do Christians. I have tried to explain the attitude that results from military attack, but you seem to see it from the perspective of someone who approves of that attack and see the Muslim response as illogical and unwarranted. Not to put words in your mouth – but you do seem to cling to the notion that civilized people would only make verbal complaints about the ongoing aggression against them. Even putting it into chronological order to show what violence is in response to what violence doesn’t sink in. You can find comfort in being the typical America who wouldn’t kill anybody except maybe in self-defense – but have no moral objection for your government to do it in your name.
            Furthermore – fully justified in any and everything (no questions asked) – simply because it is the USA. That is a very dangerous thing – because sufficiently propagandized – you could be drawn in to supporting genocide of “bad” people – even tho they have never done anything bad to you personally. Therefore they “deserve” to be exterminated.(Even tho their “badness” is grossly exaggerated.
            Well I certainly think that I have the right to question what we’ve been doing – because nobody can deny that we have a legitimate personal concern about the “terrorism” that my government’s policies and actions has resulted in.
            If you honestly do not believe that you view the world with a double standard – I suggest that you look at your comments and question what they mean to someone else. If I am a U.S. soldier and kill someone’s teen-age son – just because he is THERE I have no right to expect his farher to just make a verbal complaint about it. I expect him to come at me, and by proxy my teen-age son back in the states.
            Consequences! Logical and predictable consequences. (Therefore best just slaughter the entire family as a pre-emptive measure.) Did you know that the occupation commanders in Iraq specifically forbade keeping any tallies of civilians killed? The International Red Cross has been able to arrive at an estimate – and they say that it is almost certainly below actual. Only those that they could substantiate. Either side of 1 million in Somalia, Afghanist an, and Iraq combined. That does not include the hundreds of thousands of infants, sick, and elderly who died without meficine because of the strict sanctions we had on Iraq since “Desert Storm”.

          318. Bill says

            It seems simple to me. If you get offended and you respond with violence, then violence is what you are asking for, and no one should disappoint you in that. If you are offended and want to find a solution, you look for a chance to talk, clear the air, and avoid making enemies that have been harmed beyond any desire to talk. It is a simple choice either to communicate and seek resolution, or to apply a bad alternative to peaceful resolution. I won’t even consider myself or my country guilty because Muslims can’t communicate well, if that is the case. But having a civilized attitude certainly is a good start to using civilized behavior, Again, it’s their choice, if they want to do anything other than get themselves and other people killed. It is not a difficult choice to recognize, so I have to assume that they know what they are choosing. I will give them credit for a good level of intelligence, in which I have no doubt, but I realize that uncontrolled emotions lead to bad decisions.

            If Muslims can avoid being violent, and instead act civilized, then welcome to the modern world. If not, I see no reason to find excuses for their choice. That really can’t be an unreasonably high standard for people, and I’d hate to suggest that Muslims of all people just can’t handle civilized discourse.

            Note that I have not excused the USA, whatever they supposedly did. Simply asking people to be civilized enough to express their concerns and seek a solution to them is THE basic way to solve problems in all human relationships, so maybe Moslems should get on board with the rest of humanity in doing that one thing well. Unfortunately, if I hold my breath in anticipation, I probably will suffocate long before this approach is even noticed. I mean, a second simple principle is that you don’t pick a battle that you cannot win. Maybe they think they can win. It doesn’t really matter what they think, though, as long as they are on the attack with no provision to find a peaceful understanding. The rabid dog simply can’t be allowed to bite, and our leaders (especially USA and Europe) who enable it to happen need to be brought to account.

            So, if Moslems want to be reasonable, then maybe they can make some peaceful advances. As long as they don’t, they can expect to receive as they give. There is no need or reason to argue anything else, because the fruit of violence is violence, and the fruit of hate is hate. Nothing changes that fact, excuses it, or makes it better. It is a choice for ugliness.

            When a person tries to kill me, I don’t think they are in a talking, reconciling mood. Whole nations tend not to be agile in weighing their losses against any willingness to speak, so they tend to be willing to negotiate more easily than individuals do. Anyway, I don’t see that Islamic radicals have any interest, so far, in finding civilized solutions, and so here we are.

          319. Mustafa Curtess says

            Why is everything acceptable – so long as there is something perceived to be “worse”?

          320. Bill says

            Now you should try reading what Islam is up to. It also is not peace.

          321. AKLady says

            Educate yourself.
            Stop lying about other religions.
            The Middle East problem is not religion based.
            It is the result of centuries of occupation and subservience.

          322. AKLady says

            You whine about one, but no the other.
            Why is that?
            Your Latin impresses no one.
            Most probably cannot understand what you have written.
            Many are too lazy to bother looking it up.
            Me, I simply see what is probably fakery meant to impress.

          323. Bill says

            I know. No amount of discussion or reasoning can get a mineral to think.

          324. AKLady says

            Finally, we reach agreement.

          325. Rosech Levy says

            Really and you are doctor? Get real, Uzoosy as you are part of the problems we are getting solved every day, so be careful!

          326. Jean Langford M. says

            You need to read the Koran stooge …Careful of what ?? Yellow belly sissies that hide behind the internet…That’l be the day…

          327. Mathew Molk says

            I read the filthy koran and it tells me that all the stinking moslems(sic),no matter where they were born, need to be run out of the country or they will utterly destroy us. .

          328. Jean Langford M. says

            Dead on target…

          329. AKLady says

            Name calling — so Christian.
            Hate — so Christian

          330. COMPU-TRON says

            Coward.

          331. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            That is try to destroy us, but that’s not going to happen ever.

          332. AKLady says

            Hate — so Christian.
            Lying — so Christian …

          333. AKLady says

            Get a history education.
            Islam has been part of America since before we were a nation.
            Also read the Constitution.
            Religious freedom is what this country was founded upon.

          334. AKLady says

            Name calling — so Christian.
            Hate — so Christian.
            Lying — so Christian …

          335. evangelinebrabant says

            You need to actually read the Koran, about the”religion of peace;” you would be shocked, I am guessing.

            It is a book of violence.

            The Koran tells how to kill those who do not submit, and the to take in disciplining your wife, leading, if the worshiper deems necessary, to killing her. For openers.

          336. Jean Langford M. says

            Yeah? ..killing Christian kids with their hands tied behind their back ..Machine gunning them to death..Beating the crap out of your wives liar..Throwing acid in their faces…Burning people alive in cages..Drowning them the same way..Throwing people from roof tops you barbarian butcher SOB..FK you and that pig $hit Koran…Piss off Muslim TROLL…

          337. AKLady says

            Sewer language — so Christian.
            Name calling — so Christian.
            Hate — so Christian.
            Lying — so Christian …

          338. Jean Langford M. says

            FK off troll…You sling $HIT expect to get it back in spades…Piss off TROLL…

          339. Jean Langford M. says

            I am a Old Testament soldier…I piss on my enemies…You just joined thier ranks Yellow belly hiding behind the Bible…Never said I was I was Church going “Christian” numb nuts….pull your head out of your hypocrite ass…

          340. AKLady says

            Sewer language — so Christian.
            Name calling — so Christian.
            Hate — so
            Christian.
            Lying — so Christian …

          341. moma says

            Maybe AKLady should go live in a musim country and see what happens to her when she shoots off her bill mouth. she will either lose her tongue or be dead. Or both. Women are pieces of trash and disposable.

          342. Jean Langford M. says

            Ditto..LOL…YEP.

          343. Retired says

            She/ it is a Muslim .

          344. AKLady says

            You are not a Christian.
            You insult everything our Founders fought and died for.
            Religious bigotru is un-American.

          345. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yeah Like Benazir Bhutto who was President of Pakistan for several years – (until the power corrupted her).

          346. AKLady says

            The brainwashed only see what they are told to believe.
            Your are witnessing George Orwell’s “1984” as it happens.
            .
            The Japanese were the target in WW II.
            Asians also were the Korean War targets.
            Asians were targeted again during the Vietnam War.
            Now, those of Middle Eastern descent are the targets.
            .
            On top of that hate, those good people who clai, America is a Christian nation, also target homosexuals, single mothers, the poor …

          347. AKLady says

            I have lived in a Muslim country.
            Not all are like the few lead by extreme dictators in the ME.
            The West created that problem, now we live with the results of thos actions. Decades of suppression, denial of education …
            .
            In direct rebuttal of your claims, Muslim countries have more women judges than all the Western world combined. You have been well-brainwashed,

          348. Robert Dostoevsky says

            Have you been to a Muslim country? India has a very large Muslim population and yet there are not a lot of tongues or bodies loitering the landscape. The Taj Mahal, one of the most visited sites in the world, was built by a Muslim t

          349. Mustafa Curtess says

            Excellent “take”. It reflects my own experience living 20 years in a Muslim country – with concurrent professional experience and connections to a couple of others. Sincere welcome and effusive generosity. But since then the U.S. military has been rampaging across the M.E., destroyed 4 countries (including the one I enjoyed most) and who knows if life there can ever return to normal?

          350. AKLady says

            Sounds like what is taking place in the Central African Republic.
            Oh., wait, that is a Christian Nation …
            .
            The butcher murdering an entire church congregation ..
            Oh, wait that was a Christian in Charleston, South Carolina, USA..

            That man who murdered a doctor in church ..
            Oh, that was a Christian in Wichita, Kansas, USA.

            Antiabortion violence remains active in America –https://prochoice.org/education-and-advocacy/violence/violence-statistics-and-history/

          351. Jean Langford M. says

            ISIS is still butchering Christians..90,000 to date confirmed by the UN..Fk OFF dip $hit…

          352. Mustafa Curtess says

            Yes – And Muslims are dying in the fight against ISIS. Iraqi soldiers just threw them out of Mosul – and must have taken some casualties doing it. You can prefer to pretend that it doesn’t happen if you wish.

          353. Jean Langford M. says

            I pretend “NOTHING !!” when The Islamic Koran is PURGED of the instructions to it’s followers to take over the world by “FORCE.” when it is purged of the instructions to use “RAPE” as a means to subjugate a culture…When It disavows beating women, throwing acid in their faces, cutting of their fingers because they want to drive a car or get a education…When the Koran gives them equal status as men. When they stop cutting off hands and stop throwing human beings off roof tops, burning them alive, drowning them in cages in mass..When the Koran retracts it’s “OK” to “LIE” to infidels…When the butcher barbaric Muslims stop machine gunning people with their hands tied, cutting off their FKG heads with swords…When the inbred Muslims stop lying with their first cousins and breeding RETARDS that teach their children to put on suicide bomb vests and blow innocent people up…When you bastard Muslims stop attacking America and the rest of the FKG world with cars bombs and trucks..When the Muslims issue a apology to the United States for 9-11-2001 then I might believe your “BULL$HIT…Until then go blow smoke up somebody else’s ass…Piss off.

          354. Mustafa Curtess says

            Wouldn’t hurt for the same kind of violent nonsense to be purged from the old testament, either – before some radical extremists start acting on it. (We seem to be approaching that point.)
            I would suggest that you just scroll past any comment with my name on it. None of it is addressed to anyone as rabidly hateful as you indicate that you are. (Altho I would miss your clever invective.)

          355. Jean Langford M. says

            Oh “BS”….It has been purged Moron with the addition of the “NewTestament”..,Besides Christians Do “NOT” practice what the Old Testament instructs…But you Bastard Butcher Muslims Sure as hell practice every bit of what that pig $hit butcher book Koran dictates… So piss off num nuts…

          356. Mustafa Curtess says

            SURE they’ been purged! – Then maybe you can explain why a good 90 % of the hundreds of Protestant sermons I’ve had to sit thru – are from the Old Testament.
            (Tell me another one before that one gets cold – “Moron”.)

          357. Mustafa Curtess says

            I suggest that you just scroll past anything with my name on it – if it offends you so much. If you are a female – you are certainly a prime example of what women can become if they are not kept under strict control.

          358. AKLady says

            Maybe you should pay attention to what Christians are doing in the Central African Republic. They are killing everyone who refuses to convert to Catholicism.

            Here in America, they murder entire church congregations, drag homosexuals behind cars, kill doctors,. bomb clinics

            Freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. If you cannot support our right and laws — get out of America.

            Your sewer language is both very childish and extremely unchristian,. Develop some maturity and learn what America is about.

          359. AKLady says

            The Bible says your are to kill unbelievers: Deuteronomy 13:6, Deuteronomy 13: 13, Deuteronomy 17:3, 2 Chronicles 15:13, Leviticus 20:27, Matthew 15:1-9, Romans 1:20-32, and Matthew 5:42-44.

            There is more, but that should educate you a bit better.

          360. Onfire says

            Why do you lie when you know we all have access to The Bible and can read?

          361. AKLady says

            Deuteronomy 13:6-10New International Version (NIV)

            6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. DO NOT SPARE THEM OR SHIELD THEM. 9 YOU MUST CERTAINLY PUT THEM TO DEATH. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

          362. AKLady says

            Deuteronomy 13:13-18English Standard Version (ESV)

            13 that certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, 14 then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. AND BEHOLD, IF IT BE TRUE AND CERTAIN THAT SUCH AN ABOMINATION HAS BEEN DONE AMONG YOU, 15 YOU SHALL SURELY PUT THE INHABITANTS OF THAT CITY TO THE SWORD, DEVOTING IT TO DESTRUCTION,[A] ALL WHO ARE IN IT AND ITS CATTLE, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD. 16 You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17 None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you, as he swore to your fathers, 18 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the Lord your God.

          363. AKLady says

            WHO IS LYING?

            Deuteronomy 17:3-5King James Version (KJV)

            3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

            4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:

            5 THEN SHALT THOU BRING FORTH THAT MAN OR THAT WOMAN, WHICH HAVE COMMITTED THAT WICKED THING, UNTO THY GATES, EVEN THAT MAN OR THAT WOMAN, AND SHALT STONE THEM WITH STONES, TILL THEY DIE.

          364. AKLady says

            WHO IS LYING?

            2 Chronicles 15:13King James Version (KJV)

            13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

          365. AKLady says

            WHO IS LYING?

            Leviticus 20:27King James Version (KJV)

            27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

          366. carroll wood says

            they exchanged truth about God for a LIE Rom 1:25 NEW TESTAMENT

          367. Bill says

            Try to tell the truth at least occasionally.

            Matthew 5:42-44 says to love your enemies. Don’t worry, AKLady. You are loved, but very much at a distance. And you are also seriously disagreed with.

            Matthew 15:1-9 describes how the true commandments of God are perverted by human tradition. It says nothing about killing unbelievers, although it makes brief reference to the full penalty of some Jewish laws.

            Romans 1:20-32 says that those who pervert reality and the truth of God, choosing to pretend wisdom while exercising foolishness, deserve the trouble that they bring upon themselves, up to including death. No one is asked to kill anyone.

            Just for fun, Romans 6:23 says essentially the same thing; it is as much a promise as a condemnation: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

          368. AKLady says

            Thank you.
            Your input is always welcome
            It says so much about you

          369. Bill says

            And your input say so much about you. That is why we eventually give up on trying to reason with you.

          370. AKLady says

            You need to actually read the Bible, about the”religion of peace;” you would be shocked, I am guessing.

          371. Mustafa Curtess says

            Make no mistake! If Christianity was the “threatened and endangered” minority community (instead of Islam) – it would revert to all that violence and mayhem taught in the Old Testament EXACTLY like a minority of Muslims are doing today.

          372. Bill says

            So, at least you acknowledge that Christianity and Islam are much like oil and water. That seems very true, indeed!

          373. COMPU-TRON says

            I would say they’re a bit like two positively charged magnets – basically the same but exerting a strong repelling force when they come near each other 🙂

          374. Mustafa Curtess says

            Interesting! But every magnet has an opposite pole, too.

          375. Mustafa Curtess says

            Altho the alalogy is exaggerated, there is an element of truth to it. None of all the different Christian sects are homogenized (which one of them is the “real”, “true”, religion?) – so it is no surprise that Islam is isolated even more.
            But the simple fact is: That during the first 50 years of my life – Christianity and Islam WERE co-existing everywhere around the globe. (Right up until the C.I.A. and U.S. military began rampaging across the Middle East.)

          376. AKLady says

            You really need to read thw Bible, about the “religion of peace,”
            you would be shocked, I am guessing.

            It is a book of violence.

            The Bible tells how to kill those who do not submit, and the to take in disciplining your wife, leading, if the worshiper deems necessary, to killing her. For openers.

          377. Jean Langford M. says

            And you have escaped from the looney bin numb nuts…

          378. AKLady says

            Nursery school name calling ..
            So impressive.
            Says so much about the conservative right ..
            Of course, they also have the highest number of school dropouts.

          379. Jean Langford M. says

            Piss off TROLL…LOL..Your “righteous” clap trap dogmatic dogma from the Leftist Dumbocrap ideaology is boring ..Hiding behind the Bible to attack conservatives..FK off TROLL..LOL…LOL..

          380. AKLady says

            Sewer language, so very Christian, so conservative.
            Name calling, so very Christian, so conservative..
            .
            Thank you, you just poroved my points.

          381. richard king says

            Not the highest number of school dropouts, that would be an entirely different group, and you know it.

          382. AKLady says

            I suggest you better inform yourself.
            The “red states” have the highest rates of school dropouts.
            Those areas also have the largest welfare roles.
            That data comes from several sources.

          383. Retired says

            AK is still in Nursery School with a padded room as she bounces off the wall .

          384. Jean Langford M. says

            You hide behind the Bible and sling Dumbocrap Leftist $hit…Dispicable huh Troll..You are Yellow belly work of art…

          385. Robert Kahlcke says

            Putz

          386. AKLady says

            Get an education. Develop some maturity.

          387. Mathematical certainty says

            Check the koran, if you have the ability to read and comprehend, otherwise, have someone explain Sharia Law to you and the ultimate objective of this 7th century barbaric mentality.

          388. AKLady says

            Check the Bible, if you have the ability to read and comprehend, otherwise, have someone explain Sharia Law to you and the ultimate objective of the Christian church:

            The Crusades, The Inquisition, The witch hunts, The Peasants War, French Wars of rebellion, Massacre at Vassy, The Thirty Years War, Pope Sixtus V, Irish Rebellion, Democide in the Americas, Democide in Africa, Democide in Australia, The papal bull Romanus Pontifex – 1455, Slavery in the Americas, Leopold II, King of the Belgians – butcher of the Congo Free State 1885-1908, The Holocaust, Catholic Nazi State in Croatia, Lebanon War, Sabta and Shatila Massacre, Serb Orthodox genocide, Protestant death squads in Ireland, The Rwandan genocide, Zimbabwe — Catholic protection of Mugabe, Lord’s Resistance Army, Central African Republic Catholic murdering of those who won’t convert …, Americans killing physicians and bombing medical clinics, Americans killing church congregations; America – the KKK murders (they are now international terrorists).

          389. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            Lady what you cite, is all part of our history of civilization and definitely not the good part, when are we going to stop the killing??? What have we gained from history if we keep repeating its atrosities over and over again.

          390. AKLady says

            “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
            George Santayana

            Man is the apex predator. Regardless of scripture, the lion does not lay down with the lamb.

          391. Retired says

            Boy does that ever fit YOU .

          392. AKLady says

            Thank you.

          393. bkeyes71@yahoo.com says

            The bible does say there will be wars and rumors of wars until the end of time so I guess there’s really nothing we can do to stop them. It also says that there will be a period of 1000 years of peace so I guess we will have that pause anyway which is something good.

          394. Mustafa Curtess says

            If you happen to believe any of that.

          395. Mathematical certainty says

            Indeed, all conducted to stop the spread of muslim barbarians from infecting everything they come in contact with. Now, return to the 7th century where you belong.

          396. AKLady says

            False. Try reading some valid history.

          397. Mathematical certainty says

            Do your research on actual History…face it AK your barbarian muslims are in the midst.

            It has to be the most gargantuan coincidence of all time:

            The Manchester bomber was a Muslim
            The London Bridge attackers
            were Muslims
            The Orlando Airport Shooter was a Muslim
            The Orlando Pulse
            Nightclub Shooter was a Muslim
            The San Bernadino killers were
            Muslims
            The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
            The Beltway Snipers were
            Muslims
            The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
            The underwear Bomber
            was a Muslim
            The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
            The Madrid
            Train Bombers were Muslims
            The Bali Nightclub Bombers were
            Muslims
            The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
            The Moscow
            Theater Attackers were Muslims
            The Boston Marathon Bombers were
            Muslims
            The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
            The Air
            France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
            The Iranian Embassy
            Takeover, was by Muslims
            The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were
            Muslims
            The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
            The
            Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
            The Israeli Olympic Team
            Attackers were Muslims
            The Kenyan US, Embassy Bombers were
            Muslims
            The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
            The
            Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
            The Besian Russian
            School Attackers were Muslims
            The first World Trade Center Bombers
            were Muslims
            The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were
            Muslims
            The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
            The
            September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims

            Another bunch of big coincidences regard the inability to tolerate
            each other and get along:

            Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
            Hindus living with
            Christians = No Problem
            Hindus living with Jews = No
            Problem
            Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
            Shintos
            living with Confucians = No Problem
            Confucians living with Baha’is
            = No Problem
            Baha’is living with Jews = No Problem
            Jews living
            with Atheists = No Problem
            Atheists living with Buddhists = No
            Problem
            Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
            Sikhs living
            with Hindus = No Problem
            Hindus living with Baha’is = No
            Problem
            Baha’is living with Christians = No Problem
            Christians
            living with Jews = No Problem
            Jews living with Buddhists = No
            Problem
            Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
            Shintos
            living with Atheists = No Problem
            Atheists living with Confucians
            = No Problem
            Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

            Muslims
            living with Hindus = Problem
            Muslims living with Buddhists =
            Problem
            Muslims living with Christians = Problem
            Muslims living
            with Jews = Problem
            Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
            Muslims
            living with Baha’is = Problem
            Muslims living with Shintos =
            Problem
            Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
            MUSLIMS LIVING
            WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

            So where should Muslims go?

            They’re not happy in Gaza
            They’re not happy in Egypt
            They’re
            not happy in Libya
            They’re not happy in Morocco
            They’re not
            happy in Iran
            They’re not happy in Iraq
            They’re not happy in
            Yemen
            They’re not happy in Afghanistan
            They’re not happy in
            Pakistan
            They’re not happy in Syria
            They’re not happy in
            Lebanon
            They’re not happy in Nigeria
            They’re not happy in
            Kenya
            They’re not happy in Sudan

            ******** So, where are they happy? **********

            They’re happy in Australia
            They’re happy in England
            They’re
            happy in Belgium
            They’re happy in France
            They’re happy in
            Italy
            They’re happy in Germany
            They’re happy in Sweden
            They’re
            happy in the USA & Canada
            They’re happy in Norway & India

            They’re happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who
            do they blame?
            Not Islam…
            Not their leadership…
            Not
            themselves
            THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!
            And
            they want to change the countries they’re happy in, to be like the
            countries they came from where they were unhappy!

            ******** So, What are their Major Organizations? **********

            Islamic Jihad : AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            ISIS: AN ISLAMIC
            TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR
            ORGANIZATION
            Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Hamas: AN
            ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR
            ORGANIZATION
            Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Al-Nusra:
            AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR
            ORGANIZATION
            Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Muslim
            Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN
            ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC
            TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Jemaah
            Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
            Abdullah Azzam Brigades:
            AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION

            Barbarian mentality at its finest. Take your freak allah akbar and your pedophile mohammed back to hell.

          398. Lexus 500 says

            I am really impressed with your post. That took a lot of work to do all their research. I totally agree with you and all the problems that they cause throughout the world can go straight back to where they came from!

          399. Bunny says

            Lexis 500 – His post was copy & pasted, not researched by him. I have seen it in many other places and have used it myself as well.

            In general – The thing that really bothers me is how all these people can sit there an say The Quran/Koran is the most “peaceful” religion in the world when they continue to do the brutal things that they do, in the name of Allah. The laws they live by are horrendous!
            What kind of life is that for anyone?
            Tell me, in this MODERN DAY WHAT and HOW MANY Christians have mass killings, killings of wives, etc, in the name of Jesus? Hell, we can’t even have guilty people put in jail long enough to call it justice, let alone just chop off their hands for a minor theft!
            If they like that life and want that life then WHY do they come to OUR countries an then proceed to enforce their ways here?? I just don’t understand that!

          400. Mustafa Curtess says

            But nobody is coming here and “enforcing their ways”. Clothing and diet, or how someone worships don’t make anybody American. (And boycotting a restaurant just because they have something on the menu acceptable to Muslims is, at best, “cutting one’s own nose off” – and doesn’t reflect much reason or intelligence.)
            Almost all the charges I hear against the American Muslim community are imaginary, hypothetical, and frankly – hysterical.

          401. Bunny says

            >>>”(And boycotting a restaurant just because they have something on the menu acceptable to Muslims is, at best, “cutting one’s own nose off” – and doesn’t reflect much reason or intelligence.)”<<<

            I wasn't speaking about that, but sence you brought it up it's actually much of the same coming from them!
            Do you know in my state a Muslim woman was "offended" by a restaurant sign in the middle of the street that had the word bacon on it?
            The owner took it down so as not to "cause any problems or offend". That was WRONG. His business, his sign, his big ticket meal and he had every right to have it there!
            I cant remember all the details, but the city has a yearly contestant and the winner gets to put a business sign up in this little area where there is flowers and a grass in the middle of the busy area and his business had won.
            As I stated, his business was the winner and his sign had the word bacon on it! Seriously??
            Then another, shortly stated… a Muslim family moved in next door to a pig farm that had been there for many years. They wanted the farm family to sell and MOVE due to THEIR religion! Why the hell should any American have to sell their home because Muslims are offended by what type of farm they have and they were the ones who moved in NEXT TO IT!? No way!

          402. Mustafa Curtess says

            Actually – I adree with you. In every community there are inevitably a small % of those who are just plain stupid and unreasonable. In reality: She was maybe the only one in a hundred that would have even looked at the house – once they knew that it was next to a swine farm.
            As for the restaurant sign: Likewise the vast majority of Muslims here are aware that pork products are taken for granted in the Christian diet and think no more about it.
            It is easily avoided by those that are sensitive about it. (Rest assured that not every “Muslim” is strictly observant -and many appreciate American life because they are under no pressure to be.) Anybody that thinks just “religiously” abstaining from pork, alcohol, and dubious sexual activity makes one “Muslim” – has no right to claim to be one. Unlike Christianity – there are a couple of “unforgivable sins” in Islam – but they do not include mundane things that do no harm to anybody. “Extremists” are skating on VERY thin ice.

          403. Mathematical certainty says

            Lexus, I can not take credit for the research of my post. The work was done by someone named Justin Seine, and I agree it took a lot of research.

          404. AKLady says

            Here are examples of non-Islamic terrorism that have occurred in the United States in the last 30 years. All of them are related to the religious extremists, none of which is Muslim. The list is simply a sample, it is not all-inclusive.

            1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012.
            2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009.
            3. Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008.
            4. The murder of Barnett Slepian by James Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998.
            5. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996.
            6. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994.
            7. Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994.
            8. Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010.
            9. The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984.
            10. Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995.
            11. The Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church Shooting
            12. The Campaign of Terror Against Abortion Doctors
            13. Everything The Ku Klux Klan Has Ever Done
            14. The Massacre At Zion Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston, S.C.

            The rampant xenophobia that has taken hold of the Republican Party is an affront to everything this nation stands for. Terrorism spawns from the desperation of humankind, and for that, we are all guilty.

          405. AKLady says

            You have posted a very twisted recount of history.

            America has more prisons than the entire modern world, combined. A murder takes place 44 times a day in America
            Our prisons are full of Christian killers and criminals.

            Currently active Christian terror groups: The Army of God, Eastern Lightening, The Church of the Almighty God, The Church of the Gospel’s Kingdom, The Lord’s Resistance Army, The National Liberation Front of Tripura, the Phineas Priesthood, The Concerned Christians, The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland, Maronite Christian militias.

            A SMALL SAMPLE OF HOMEGROWN CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS – JUST THE PAST 10 YEARS

            Robert Lewis Dear — 3 dead, 9 injured – Colorado
            Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer – 9 dead, 9 injured – Oregon
            Dylann Storm Roof — 9 dead – S. Carolina
            Elliot Rodger – 6 dead – California
            Aaron Alexis — 12 dead — DC
            John Zawahri – 5 dead – California
            Adam Lanza – 27 dead – Connecticut
            Radcliffe Haughton – 3 dead — Wisconsin
            Andrew Engeldinger – 6 dead — Minnesota
            Wade Michael Page – 6 dead – Wisconsin
            James Holmes – 12 dead – Colorado
            One L. Goh – 7 dead – California
            Scott Dekraai – 8 dead — California
            Jared Lee Loughner – 6 dead – Arizona
            Omar S. Thornton – 8 dead – Connecticut
            Amy Bishop – 3 dead — Alabama
            Jiverly Voong – 13 dead — New York
            Steven Kazmierczak – 5 dead – Illinois
            Robert Hawkins – 8 dead — Nebraska
            Seung-hui Cho – 32 dead – Virginia
            Charles Carl Roberts IV – 5 dead — Pennsylvania
            Jennifer San Marco – 6 dead – California
            Jeffrey Weise – 9 dead — Minnesota
            Doug Williams – 5 dead — Mississippi
            Robert S. Flores – 3 dead — Arizona
            Charles Andrew Williams – 2 dead — California
            Michael McDermott – 7 dead – Massachusetts
            Bryan Uyesugi – 7 dead – Hawaii

          406. Mathematical certainty says

            The only twisted subject herein is your phony religion, your pedophilic prophet mohammed, and that clown allah akbar that you pray to daily, by burying your face on the ground and sticking your az towards the sky. Islam, the religion of lies, deceit, and corruption. A religion composed of murderous thugs, thieves, pedophiles, and closet queens.

          407. AKLady says

            1. I am not Muslim.
            2. Muhammad was not a pedophile.
            3. Your have no knowledge, whatsoever, when it comes to Islam.
            4. Your religious insults are an embarrassment to everything America represents.

          408. Mathematical certainty says

            The only embarrassment to everything in America and the world in general are you and your scandalous, lying, deceitful, murderous, muslim followers. You and your terrorist thug friend linda sarsour will be eradicated. Bring on your jihad, civilized society can not wait much longer.

          409. AKLady says

            First they came for the Muslims, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Muslim

            Then they came for the Hispanics and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Hispanics..

            Then they came for the Poor and You did not speak out —
            Because You were not Poor.

            Then they came for the Disabled and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Disabled.

            Then they came for the Jews, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Jew.

            Then they came for the Elderly, and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Elderly.

            Then they came for You—and there was no one left to speak for You.
            ( a variation on Martin Niemoller’s famous poem).

          410. Mathematical certainty says

            First the muslims came for the Christians, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Christian.

            Then the muslims came for the Hispanics and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Hispanics..

            Then the muslims came for the Poor and You did not speak out —
            Because You were not Poor.

            Then the muslims came for the Disabled and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Disabled.

            Then the muslims came for the Jews, and You did not speak out—
            Because You were not a Jew.

            Then the muslims came for the Elderly, and You did not speak out –
            Because You were not Elderly.

            Then the muslims came for the little boys and girls for deviant sex, and You did not speak out–Because You were not a little boy or little girl.

            Then the muslims came for You AKLady—and You and the muslims continued on your savage and barbaric path of destroying everything civilized.

            Then came Jesus Christ the Son of the True GOD and crushed the savage barbarians, AMEN!

            ( Actual version of Martin Niemoller’s famous poem).

          411. AKLady says

            You are not a Christian.
            You just published that fact before the world.

          412. Mathematical certainty says

            The fact that I published before the world is that you are barbaric muslim sympathizer.

          413. AKLady says

            Freedom of religion is the law in America.
            If you do not like America’s laws, get out.
            Find someplace that better suits your bigotry.

          414. Mathematical certainty says

            It is you that needs to get out and return to whatever islamic-shit-hole that spawned you.

          415. AKLady says

            U.S. Constitution, Amendment I

            CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

          416. richard king says

            Americans did not intentionally do any of these things spewing from your traitorous pen.
            As for the rest of this demented diatribe, you are conflating religious wars among Christians, lying about slavery in teh US, which had nothing to do with Christianity, and the Rwandan genocide, which was not about Christianity.
            When you conflate and lie, you lose the argument.

          417. AKLady says

            Try getting your facts correct before insulting someone. Your history education is sorely lacking. Suggest you begin by reading the Dred Scott decision which held that “black people aren’t fully human.”

            In Rwanda, the RPF military campaign intensified support for the so-called “Hutu Power” ideology, which portrayed the RPF as an alien force who were non-Christian.
            As we speak, Christians in the Central African Republic are murdering everyone who will not convert.

          418. richard king says

            Actually, one of my degrees is in history from a very good university. Of course, you are hard to debate, because you will say you have a history degree also, along with the Medical one and law degree. Am familiar with the Dred Scott decision, which is of historical interest only.
            Muslims have been beheading Christians for years , and are attacking them in Egypt, Iraq, and throughout the middle east. It was a short time ago when they treated the world to video depictions. Christians have been almost wiped out there, those that do not convert to Islam.
            i don’t deny that Christians have been bad actors as well, but the Muslims are the worst currently, and that religion is the most primitive. By the way, i am not a Christian or any other religion, since I believe religion is the root of much of the ills of the world, which I concluded after studies in comparative religion a long time ago.

          419. AKLady says

            Why do you lie?
            I’ve never claimed to have a degree in history.
            You keep expressing religious bias and hate — an un-American activity.
            Christians also murder. The problem in the Middle-East is not now, nor has it ever been, totally one-sided.

          420. richard king says

            You misread my comment. You are the liar, you are not a doctor or lawyer.
            I am not biased, but I completely condemn what radical Muslims have done, and are still doing, and I condemn people like you who support them.
            You are in no position to judge whether I am American or un, or judge my activities or comments. You are a little old fraud who sits around trolling and reading Wikipedia in order to appear intelligent.
            Waste of time.

          421. Ian5 says

            Gets all frustrated, then resorts to name-calling. The usual pattern.

          422. AKLady says

            Blah, blah, blah, lie, insult, assume, exaggerate …repeat ad nauseam.
            Tedious, boring, repetitive …enfant terrible

          423. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Had nothing to do with slavery”? Did anyone EXCEPT Christians own slaves?
            During the civil rights and desegregation uproar in the 1960’s – I repeatedly heard biblical verse quoted – saying that blacks were not fully human. (“Sons of Hamm” still rings a bell. But I could be mistaken – it’s been a long time.)

          424. GuardianFlame says

            I have researched the Muslim Culture (Culture NOT a religion as they would have you think). It will never find a home in the U.S. because 1). the American woman is highly liberated and no raghead is going to convince her to be his slave. and 2) There are too many Patriots that do not like Muslim people because of their ties to the Jihadist killings and their totally stupid refusal to condemn those violent actions. Muslims have created their own Hell in the U.S. and they will eventually leave this country because staying will be detrimental to their lives.

            Anyone who thinks they are model citizens has their head where the sun doesn’t shine. The Moderates are just waiting for the Radicals to do the job so they can claim this country. They allow their American born sons to go to the Middle East where they become radicalized and then return to their birth place and proceed to kill Americans. The past several Jihadists did exactly that. There are plenty of Muslims living here with young adult sons who need to be surveilled for any strange behaviors – especially if they go to the Middle East. It’s usually a year later that they commit Jihad and kill Americans.

            Just so you know, I have worked closely with Muslim males in my job in the Corporate offices of a large Software Company. All behaviors were sneaky and underhanded to benefit them. In one case, because Corporate chose a woman’s idea over his, a Muslim man stormed out of a Corporate meeting and left the building. He quit his high paying job because she showed him up. Her ideas were much better than his and would work better for He disliked her from the beginning because she was smarter than him and everyone liked her.

            Several decades ago, one of our close friends was abducted by a young muslim man just because she answered him in a grocery store as to where he could find the

          425. AKLady says

            Deciding what is, and what is not a religion is above your pay grade.
            Religious hate is un-American.
            .
            Muslims fought in the American Revolution;.
            Muslim ports of call enabled us to obtain arms and ammunition.
            The first to die for our freedom was a Muslim — Crispus Attucks.
            Out first ally was a Muslim country — Morocco.
            Our longest ally is a Muslim country — Morocco.
            .
            STOP EMBARASSING AMERICA

          426. richard king says

            Islam is a culture and set of laws mingled with a religion. Religious hate is un-american, but hatred of a brutal, misogynistic culture is not.
            Germans and French fought in the American Revolution, too. More of them than Muslims by far.
            Attucks was not the first to die for our freedom, that is nonsense. Crispus Attucks was one in a large group of rioters who were opposing British soldiers attempting to control the crowd in Boston that was protesting The Stamp Act. He was brave to do what he did, but it was a stray shot, and the soldier who shot him was punished.
            Our first enemy in the middle east was Libya, a Muslim Country, and Jefferson authorized an invasion to stop the Tripoli pirates from kidnapping and killing our sailors.
            Stop making up your own history.

          427. AKLady says

            Dear Richard, your post is a prime example of religious hate.

            America has a very misogynistic culture.
            In American culture, we call them Male Chauvinist Pigs.

            Women continue to be paid less than men and have been since the end of WW II. Once the war ended, women were supposed to be good-little-girls and return to cooking and cleaning..
            Men are promoted more than women, even in the U.S. military. In fact, women were denied high levels in the military because they were banned from combat duty.

            The most feared warriors of history were women.
            Some of the most feared by our soldiers in Vietnam were women.

          428. COMPU-TRON says

            You can make an argument that Islam is a religion mixed up in a bunch of culture and laws.

          429. usmcltc says

            STOP EMPARASSING YOURSELF with your ridiculous, biased comments.

          430. AKLady says

            Truth is now an embarrassment?
            Facts are now an embarrassment?
            .
            I thought better of you.

          431. usmcltc says

            No. The way you twist truth and facts to support YOUR position is what is embarrassing; however, you seem blind to THAT fact.

          432. AKLady says

            I thought better of you.
            I stand corrected. You just lost my respect.
            But, no matter. I am simply an Internet nobody.

          433. usmcltc says

            Your respect means nothing to me, as I lost all respect for you long ago. At one point, I even defended you, but considering your comments over time leads me to the realization that it is people like you who are a danger to our great country. You pass yourself off as a very knowledgeable individual, but in reality, you possess a biased, know-it-all attitude that everybody who does not agree with you is stupid and/or uneducated. I find it interesting that almost no one agrees with what you say, but I guess it shows that some people have some common sense, after all.

          434. AKLady says

            Thank you.
            Your input is always welcome
            It says so much about you.

          435. usmcltc says

            No, thank you!

          436. AKLady says

            “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
            (George Santayana, “The Life of Reason: Reason in Common Sense.” Scribner’s, 1905: 284).

          437. Mustafa Curtess says

            If you bother to actually do some honest research – you will find that she is 99% correct.
            There is some friction between her’s and mine political philosophies – but her historical research is intellectually irrefutable.

          438. usmcltc says

            Of course, you would say that she is right “Mustafa”. I have had many “conversations” with AKLady, and my comment was a general comment about her stating things that have nothing to do with the subject being discussed. You must realize that she thinks that she knows EVERYTHING and anyone who does NOT agree with her is stupid or uneducated. Don’t forget to give her a thumbs up, as she needs all of the help that she can get.

          439. Mustafa Curtess says

            I have had some exasperating discussions with AKlady myself (and I am ashamed of some of the crude language I have used). The most infuriating thing is that she always IS “on topic” and she always IS technically and historically correct.
            Stop shovelling bigoted opinion and unfounded nonsense at her – and there would be no reason for her to question anybody’s intelligence and education.
            (Clever of you to condemn my response in anticipation.)

          440. COMPU-TRON says

            There’s no solid evidence Crispus Attucks was Muslim. Black, yes.

            I agree with your first sentence 100%.

          441. Mathew Molk says

            Yo “Gordian” I know you are on our side but why did you and your friends take the puke out back and drop him in a dumpster after properly instructing him in the ways American men expect others to treat our women.

            And something here doesn’t smell good. Why a protection order instead of a warrant for kidnapping and felonious assault and rape? (Amusing he lived through his American chivalry class.)

            At least you got this bastard to leave the country, but you missed your chance to have him leave bleeding with a permanent limp for a brolen knee cap.

          442. AKLady says

            Spousal abuse is one of America’s most common crimes.
            Courts take little, or no, action against the perpetrator.
            Maybe you can find a place to send all of them …
            Oh, that’s right, you can’t throw an American out of the country …

          443. GuardianFlame says

            Yeah you are right. He should have left with his face smashed in, but our friend was our concern – getting her far away from him and to her parents and medical help. No one there was afraid of him, but more concerned about our friend. Latter that day a Policeman came and questioned us about the muslim – physical description, what was he driving, etc. So we knew the process had begun to find him.

            You should have seen his face when I went right up to him and pried his fingers off my friends upper arm (which was all bruised). I did it so fast that he didn’t realize what happened, but when he did, he got pissed, but didn’t follow us because we were going into the kitchen where a bunch of guys were talking and drinking. He just sat there and got madder and madder. Eventually he came into the kitchen asking where she was and another guy friend said she had to go and wouldn’t be coming back. The muslim tore out of the apartment immediately.

            And there was a warrant for his arrest — for kidnapping and felonious assault — posted that very night. He left the country pretty fast because Law Enforcement couldn’t find him anywhere. The Protection Order was for my friend’s benefit should he show up at her door, but he wouldn’t because her parents (her Dad was ready to kill that guy) moved her far away from where she was living and closer to them…and she changed her name. I think her Dad was hoping that jerk would try to do something again so he could end that snake.

            Those Muslim men are so clueless about everything American, but especially the women — and the men who live here! What makes those snakes think they can do whatever they want to anyone and not suffer the consequences?? They are in store for a huge painful realization that Americans do NOT run, nor do they back down, but will stand and protect all they love…and they do not like Islam’s twisted males.

          444. Tito Troy says

            I posted this on Facebook. Come on you’ll get the word
            out.

          445. AKLady says

            How about protecting American women from American men?
            American men beat them every day.
            Every city has shelters for abused women.

          446. AKLady says

            Christians have created their own hell all over the world.

            Their history of killing for religion covers centuries:
            The Crusades, The Inquisition, The witch hunts, The Peasants War, French Wars of rebellion, Massacre at Vassy, The Thirty Years War, Pope Sixtus V, Irish Rebellion, Democide in the Americas, Democide in Africa, Democide in Australia, The papal bull Romanus Pontifex – 1455, Slavery in the Americas, Leopold II, King of the Belgians – butcher of the Congo Free State 1885-1908, The Holocaust, Catholic Nazi State in Croatia, Lebanon War, Sabta and Shatila Massacre, Serb Orthodox genocide, Protestant death squads in Ireland, The Rwandan genocide, Zimbabwe — Catholic protection of Mugabe, Lord’s Resistance Army, Central African Republic Catholic murdering of those who won’t convert …, Americans killing physicians and bombing medical clinics, Americans killing church congregations; America – the KKK murders (they are now international terrorists).

          447. NonPCconservative says

            So move to a sharia state and enjoy your life there under the enlightened rule of the Muslims. Problem solved.

          448. AKLady says

            You have been well-brainwashed.
            Islam is the world’s second largest religion.
            Apparently, it is well-accepted in many places.

          449. Mustafa Curtess says

            And it is fully accepted as a RELIGION by every nation and every other religion.

          450. AKLady says

            Exactly.
            Here, in America, the population is brainwashed. That creates paranoia which allows billions to be passed to the Military Industrial Complex. Individuals, such as the Koch Brothers are becoming even richer while America’s middle-class and poor become even more impoverished.
            Bush did not just start two wars, he also signed the laws reducing the income taxes needed to pay for them. As a result, our national debt s tripled.

          451. Mustafa Curtess says

            We will never have a “sharia state”, and even if we did – it would not affect non-Muslims. The Amish and Mormons live in their sharitic states and nobody else is bothered by it. You really should have more confidence in America – and the authority of the U.S. Constitution. (The only threat to it that I am aware of – is that Christians believe that Biblical Law should over-rule Constitutional Law, AND OFTEN SAY SO.)
            Congratulations! – by the way. It appears that Trump-Pence and its “constructionist” (= “legislative”) Supreme Court is prepared to do just that.

          452. NonPCconservative says

            Firstly I wasn’t addressing you. I have already made it quite clear that I consider your opinion worthless.

            Secondly I never suggested that the USA would become a sharia state, that is purely a product of your own fevered imagination and poor reading comprehension skills. What I said was she should move to a sharia state since she obviously hates living here.

            Thirdly, if the idiot that I was addressing decides to follow my advice you could join her. You might even get a group price on air tickets if you take all of your Islamic apologist friends with you. Let me know if you decide to go that way, I might be able to start a Go Fund Me which I’m sure would be oversubscribed, as long as you promise not to return.

          453. Mustafa Curtess says

            Maybe you didn’t suggest it – but you can’t have failed to notice all the hysterical fear expressed here and on fb – that it is actually considered a possibility! So much so- that some states are enacting laws forbidding it. (Honestly!) And I’ve read somewhere that federal laws against it are being written, and there may be some Supreme Court guarantees forthcoming.). It Is genuinely saddening to learn that so many of us have such little confidence in our Constitution and leadership. (They may as well outlaw Unicorns while they’re at it.)
            Nobody is “apologizing” for anything – just trying to get some facts straight.
            Neither myself nor any of my “friends” feel any need to go anywhere, and I am free to exercise speech fully – as much as anyone else. None of us are going ANYWHERE! (And until the Constitution is re-written or repealed – nobody can force us to.)
            You will NEVER find a place where everybody agrees with you. And you will never be allowed to try to create one. (But dream on.)

          454. NonPCconservative says

            Your faith in the constitution is wonderful. You probably loved Obama though who hated the constitution. My faith in it is also wonderful but my faith in those tasked to protect and preserve the constitution is very limited and this opinion is based on reality, not unicorn dreams.

            You purposely omit the fact that sharia law has influenced the outcome of court cases here in America. You also omit the fact that sharia is already being practiced in Dearborn. You also omit the fact that Islamic groups like CAIR always come out and fight against the laws that forbid sharia at every level. I wonder why this is necessary? perhaps CAIR believes that unicorns should be outlawed.

            Keep your Islamic apologies. The rest of us know that you are lying. If you are not lying then your opinion is based on very shallow understanding and erroneous conclusions.

          455. Mustafa Curtess says

            Actually – I detested Obama. Beginning with his attacks on the Second Amendment.
            The SINGLE thing in his Presidency that I approved of – was that he carefully avoided mixing “Church and State”.
            I didn’t “omit” ANYTHING. I have seen no evidence of anything that you mention.
            If the Muslim community in Dearborn are practicing sharia – why aren’t they cutting people’s heads and hands off, stoning prostitutes, and throwing Gays off of tall buildings? (Or is it just not being reported?)
            CAIR represents only the extreme fringe of American Muslims. Special-interest groups of all kinds propose and oppose legislation every day. And none more than the “Religious Right” movement does.
            “The rest of us” just has to get used to my lying. I enjoy it very much – and I intend to keep on doing it until I get ex-communicated from the social sites I’m active on.

          456. NonPCconservative says

            Oh yeah, he kept out of religious matters. “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam”.

            “He accused the FBI of killing two men in cold blood in separate
            incidents. But Obama administration officials saw Hassan Shibly as a suitable representative of the American Muslim community to include at Monday’s White House meeting on combating religious discrimination, the Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) has learned.

            Shibly is the chief executive director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) in Florida.”

            “Obama Never Met With His Intelligence Chief But Met With CAIR 312 Times”

            “A classified State Department memo released in June revealed that Muslim Brotherhood members are regularly given VIP treatment at airports, not being subject to the TSA’s unconstitutional searches.
            No body scanners, no invasive searches, no Muslim Brotherhood members’ children having TSA agents stick their hands down their pants. Their treatment has been likened to that given to Saudi royalty.”

            http://www.independentsentinel.com/obama-never-met-with-his-intelligence-chief-but-met-with-cair-312-times/

            Of course CAIR is a fringe group.

            No sharia in the USA? From 2015.

            http://publicpolicyalliance.org/media-kit/shariah-law-and-american-state-courts-report/

            Need more?

            http://publicpolicyalliance.org/media-kit/shariah-law-and-american-state-courts-report/

            Now quit with the taqqiya. You have shown yourself to either be a deliberate liar in the cause of furthering Islamic supremacy or a blithering idiot who knows nothing of what he pretends.

          457. Mathew Molk says

            Yu need to get the hell out of my country,,,,while you are still able to do it under your own power. – Enough of this jihad shit is enough. Time to run all islamist and their supporters out and return to our Judaeo/Christian roots.

          458. Uzoozy says

            Its my country too, so where do I go , may be go back with you to your country of origin..
            I honor all religions some are right and some mis-guided , thats the way it is

          459. Bunny says

            Tell me how this is okay in this day an age??

            GRAPHIC…

            http://www.bestgore.com/torture/thief-hands-cut-off-foot-amputated-video/

          460. AKLady says

            “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
            ~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

          461. usmcltc says

            Thank you for the history lesson. Try to bring yourself up-to-date and comment on todays issues, something that was said 200+ years ago. Thanks.

          462. AKLady says

            Jefferson’s quote is as applicable today as it was then. The right is pushing Christian Sharia. If this is allowed to continue, we will become a theocracy.

            overnment clerks refusing to issue gay marriage licenses in the name of their religion, despite Judge’s orders directly telling them to issue the licenses…
            The Attorney General of Texas, who ironically swore to uphold the law, went one step further and told these same clerks they in fact did not need to issue these licenses.

            The unprecedented war on women and their reproductive rights is another example of the sharia coming to America. Then we have the decline of science and and intellectualism. There is a long history of the religious dismissing science and advancement in the name of religion

            We have descended from Goldwater rationality to Reagan nonsense. it is an insult to the Founding Fathers who fought for exactly the opposite. We no longer have a Republic that practices democracy nor do we have separation of church and state.

          463. usmcltc says

            “(G)overnment clerks refusing to issue gay marriage licenses in the name of their religion, despite Judge’s orders directly telling them to issue the licenses…”. What a hypocrite you are. You use this as a means to say how bad “religion” is, even in the fact of laws. But, on the other hand you approve of protecting illegal immigrants, some of them criminals, in sanctuary cities, which is ALSO against the law. I guess that YOU would stand up for ONLY those issues that YOU think are right, regardless of how others look at those issues. Again, your biased attitude rules!
            The “unprecedented war on women” is a figment of your imagination. Of course, some women can not have sex, unless their insurance companies pay for birth control products. And, they use abortion as another birth control product to get rid of unwanted children. By the way, I believe that abortions should be legal, but not used as a birth control measure.
            According to you, America has gone to hell in a hand basket. Sounds like it is time for you to move OUT of the U.S., oh, I forgot, you already have.

          464. AKLady says

            In the majority of countries, at-will abortion is legal in the first trimester.
            Yes, even in Islamic countries.
            .
            Make abortion illegal, then it is simply only available to those who can pay.
            Abortion has always been available to the rich. Most birth control is also a form of abortion. Some of the drugs prevent implantation of a fertilized cell. All IUDs prevent implantation.
            .
            Refugees, not illegal immigrants. Refugees fleeing violence. Refugees fleeing American caused and supported violence. Oh, yes, the violence in Mexico and other S. American countries is America’s fault. It will not end until the American market for illegal drugs is ended.

            Either fix the social problems or legalize drugs. Building a wall will only increase the cost of drugs and the crime committed to pay for it. Legalize it and tax it. Two states have finally put common sense in place.
            Prohibition did not work, why do people keep making the same foolish mistakes?

            The growing right-wing “war” on women is something you refuse to acknowledge. Apparently, you don’t want to see or admit what is taking place. Why don’t you volunteer with a charity that helps abused women. Face the reality that the justice system does little to support law enforcement. The drunk brawlers outside a bar face more serious consequences than a wife-beater.

          465. usmcltc says

            I don’t care what other countries do concerning abortion, as I only care about the U.S..

            I said, “By the way, I believe that abortions should be legal, but not used as a birth control measure.” Then you go on a tirade about making abortion illegal and abortions being available to the rich. I am beginning to think that you have lost it.

            I have NOT said anything about refugees, but YOU have to throw them into the mix to make a point, I guess. Refugees and illegal immigrants are apples and oranges and you can NOT apply the SAME rules and regulations to both groups. I find it odd that you want to blame America for the world’s problems, like no other country has any responsibility for their own countries. A really odd attitude.

            It appears that you are for legalizing drugs, like marijuana? That has really worked out well for Colorado where the vehicle accident rate involving marijuana has skyrocketed.

            “The growing right-wing “war” on women…”. Now, it is only the “right-wing” that has a hand in the “war on women”. Another biased comment that has no basis. You cite “abused women”. Do you really believe that ONLY conservatives abuse women? I in no way condone the abuse of women by any man, or woman, for that matter. But, the abuse of a woman by a man is NOT a “war on women”, but rather a dastardly unforgivable deed done by a man to a woman. There are woman who abuse men, so does that classify as a “war on men”?

            “Face the reality that the justice system does little to support law enforcement.” I agree full heartedly! Just look at how sanctuary cities protect illegal immigrants, some are criminals, regardless of what the law says.

          466. AKLady says

            The sole difference between refugee and illegal is the label.
            The illegals are refugees. They are fleeing violence.
            Denial that America has a huge drug problem won’t solve anything.

            What you are seeing is Prohibition of the 1920s, but on a much larger scale.
            In practice, marijuana has been legal in Alaska for more than 50 years.

            Driving under the influence is just that, regardless of the drug consumed. Alcohol is a drug, a legal drug. Unlike alcohol, for example, testing positive for marijuana doesn’t necessarily mean a person is under the influence of the drug at the time of the traffic accident.

            Oh, and had you actually looked at the Colorado report, you would have noted that 37 percent of all drivers in 2014 who tested positive for marijuana, not just those involved in traffic fatalities, also had alcohol in their system. On top of that, 15 percent of all marijuana-positive drivers had other drugs in their system.

            A February 2015 “Drug and Alcohol Crash Risk” study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration negated the findings you are relying upon.

          467. usmcltc says

            You never stop amazing me! “The illegals are refugees.” Do you REALLY believe that or are you just pulling my chain. That statement is ridiculous, and just another way for you liberals to support illegals. Fact: refugees are here legally and fall under a different set of laws than “illegals” who are here illegally. I would expect someone with your intelligence to know the difference, but wrong again.

            Alcohol is classed as a depressant, meaning that it slows down vital functions—resulting in slurred speech, unsteady movement, disturbed perceptions and an inability to react quickly.

            As for how it affects the mind, it is best understood as a drug that reduces a person’s ability to think rationally and distorts his or her judgment. Relating to YOUR comments, it appears that you drink too much of this “drug”.
            Of course, any report that does not support YOUR position is false, fake and not worth reading. Did I get that right? But, I guess you approve of people smoking marijuana because 37% of those with marijuana in their system also had alcohol in their system. Boy, THAT really supports making marijuana legal! Time for you and people like you to have a reality check.

          468. AKLady says

            Intoxication is just that — drug induced impairment.
            It does not matter what drug causes the impairment.
            .
            Also time for a reality check. THC tests positive weeks after the intoxication has dissipated.

          469. usmcltc says

            I just love your comments. It does not matter what drug causes the impairment. So, I guess by that comment, there is no difference between being drunk, high on marijuana or high on meth or heroin. Did I get that right.

            I wonder how those people who smoke marijuana pass their weekly drug tests.

            What happened to your “The illegals are refugees” argument? Did you just want to forget that laughable comment?

          470. AKLady says

            Suggest you educate yourself in regard to drug cartel impacts in Central and South America. It is the American demand for illegal drugs that is driving those problems. Well, that is the expert opinion, yours may be different.

            Intoxication is intoxication. All drugs impair thinking and judgment.

            Depends on the tests. Blood detection and urine detection are two very different chemical reactions. THC can be detected using a urine test for up to 12 weeks depending on the quantity as well as frequency of use. It can be detected in hair for months after use.

          471. usmcltc says

            Thank you for your educational class, but tell me again, who REALLY cares?

          472. AKLady says

            I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.”

          473. usmcltc says

            Tell me again what the oath of enlistment has to do with the drug cartel’s impacts in Central and South America.

          474. AKLady says

            “Thank you for your educational class, but tell me again, who REALLY cares?”
            It is the “who REALLY cares” part of your statement.

          475. usmcltc says

            ??? You lost me.

          476. AKLady says

            Your oath of office is life-time, as is the Commission, unless of course you are court martialed and stripped of rank..

          477. AKLady says

            Good night, sleep well.

          478. AKLady says

            “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
            ~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

          479. AKLady says

            “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
            ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

          480. Retired says

            Are you and AKLady related , she the Muslim Troll Queen on here ??? Read further down she is running wild again.

          481. Uzoozy says

            I too read AKLady posts, she is highly educated and writes very moderate and sensible posts.
            She is amongst the best writers.

          482. Retired says

            She /It is a Muslim obozo kiss butt like you .

          483. Bill says

            Read your Kor’an, and you will discover that what he says is true. Prozac can’t re-write the Kor’an, sadly.

          484. Mustafa Curtess says

            He needs to take good dose of “borga” (or some kind of kind of “missal”. (Vernacular Arabic).

          485. Mustafa Curtess says

            That’s what everybody is saying – but I haven’t seen any signs that it’s being done.

          486. alegalcitizen says

            Really??? Calif ring a bell, or how about the night club slayings in Florida??? Or the crazy military man that killed his fellow soldiers? IF you haven’t seen that then no one can help you.

          487. Mustafa Curtess says

            Do you really see a few widespread incidents as evidence of a nationwide violent epidemic? Some kind of an organized conquest? There have been other terrorist-type attacks on schools, etc. by otherwise “Christian” – Americans. Every darned one of them were done by someone mentally deranged. That includes the Army officer. None of them in any way represented or had the approval of the American Muslim community.
            I wish I was wealthy and could fund a study of that community to once and for all introduce it to the rest of America so they would know to ignore the attention-seeking lousmouths ( yes including this Linda Sarsour nobody).
            No more than 1.3 million out of the entire U.S. population. I know for a fact that many are 2nd generation Americans (some longer) have homes, careers, (many are MD’s and other medical professionals), successful businesses, mortgages, live quite happily under the Constitution (and don’t even question it).
            I haven’t ever really believed in religion – but that doesn’t blind me to the BS that is being stirred up – that can have only ONE result: Martial Law – to PROTECT Muslims.
            The FBI will handle the “terrorists”. Stay out of their way. It is not going to tolerate a bunch of trigger-happy vigilantes, either (which would just double its workload).

          488. Mathematical certainty says

            Obviously, you have not read the Koran, try it, you may be enlightened to the mentality of Barbarians.

          489. Mustafa Curtess says

            Obviously you don’t know anything about me. I was Muslim 50 years and read the Koran at least once a year during Ramadan. I never saw the BS that everybody else finds somewhere, tho. So there must be some bogus Koran’s floating around. Yes there was some rough stuff that applied to circumstances 1500 years ago in a barbaric WORLD -but only crazy extremists follow it today. So anyway – in the end I realized it was just to brainwash my imagination and enslave me just like the Bible I was born to and raised up by tried to. Just superstitious BS that only a very careless and gullible mind could take seriously and live by. I cleared my mind of religion completely and have been free and unconcerned for 10 years. Looking back I am ashamed of myself for even trying to believe such childish nonsense. How could I have ever been that dumb? How could anybody more than about 10 years old be? Some kind of hypnosis? An addiction? Whatever – I’m cured of it.

          490. Mathematical certainty says

            I am surprised that it took you 50 years of reading the Koran before you realized the intent of Sharia. However, I do agree with you on religion in general.

          491. Mustafa Curtess says

            “Sharia” is not part of any Koran I have ever read. The word derives from “shura” – meaning ” consensus” ( or the combined opinion of the tribe, province, or whatever comprises the community. Therefore it may loosely compare to our several states’ laws which may differ from state-to-state – so long as they do not violate constitutional principles. I have never seen what frequently appears here as “sharia laws” so I have to assume that someone, somewhere, has compiled everything they could find in the Koran, interpreted it as negatively as possible (embellished here and there as is possible when translating from one language to a vastly different one – and foisted it off as official sharia. And it has been seized upon and repeated and quoted so many times that it has become a “factoid”. Granted that these dictates and punishments may seem to be based upon Koranic verse -and some extreme radical sect may see fit to follow them asi it interprets – very few reflect the spirit of the Koran as I know it.
            I can assure you with some certainty that radical “sharia” is NOT the law-of-the-land in any Muslim country I have lived in or visited. (Maybe a more radical country somewhere – but nothing in my experience.). Nor is there any authority that compel any sovereigh Muslim country to bas its civil laws on “Sharia”.
            In fact: None of the concepts about domestic relationships, inheritance, family matters, etc. that I have always considered “sharia” – even appear in this “modern” version. Having long iago rid myself of religious superstition I certainly will not go dig my Koran out of storage and search for things that I don’t believe are there.
            So you folks go right ahead having a ball, and basing your hatred of millions of people on it – but I consider it 90% BS.

          492. NonPCconservative says

            So you pretend to be knowledgeable about Islam but don’t reference the Sunna or the Hadiths. I can only assume that either you have a very superficial knowledge or else you are practicing taqqiya.

            You say “I can assure you with some certainty that radical “sharia” is NOT the law-of-the-land in any Muslim country I have lived in or visited.” I guess that depends on your definition of “radical” or your definition of “some” in regard to certainty. In every Islamic country that I have visited, all of which follow some subset of sharia law, there is always a group dedicated to making the law more radical.

            In Indonesia, often used as an example of “tolerant” Islam, you have the province of Aceh with some pretty barbaric practices based on sharia. Then we have Pakistan, where many are put to death for blasphemy and other imagined crimes. Radical enough?

            We haven’t even started on places like Yemen or Syria.

            You give the example of Tunisia. I guess that you enjoyed your visit to a nice Mediterranean beach a lot more than those killed in the attacks there. A superficial look at many Islamic countries might lead one to think that everything is simply marvelous there but once you get out of the tourist areas, as I have in most countries in the Middle East and North Africa, things look a bit different.

          493. Mustafa Curtess says

            My comment was not “Introduction To Islam 101”. It was my own observation about sharia. There was no need to get into hadith or sunna. Since certain sharia is based upon Koranic verse (at least vaguely), and so is most countries’ civil and criminal law – any similarity may be quite coincidental, and it would be incorrect to assume that a country’s laws are based upon sharia.
            (For instance: U.S. laws can not be called “biblical law” simply because they do not contradict biblicsl law.)
            I left the Muslim world in Dec. 1980. The world of today is a quite different place than it was then. I can only partly explain why so much has changed.
            I have explained my connection to and experience of Islam. Anyone who considers himself to be more knowledgable than I – may possibly be so. (But unless one is or has been Muslim – his interpretation can only be superficial at best.) As I’ve said: I faced up to the fact that I can neither intellectually nor morally subscribe to religion
            some years ago and feel absolutely no responsibility for any of its flaws. Likewise – I feel no need to explain or defend any changes in any country since my departure (especially since I couldn’t have influenced anything if I had stayed).
            I have not been to Yemen – but if one wishes to think that all Muslim countries are like Yemen – IMm not obliged to try to convince him otherwise. He is perfectly welcome to his ignorance.
            Living and working primarily in Libya, my employer sent me to Tunisia 3 times to help solve some technical problems at their Tunisian subsidiary. Duration of stay varied from 3 weels to 3 months, and I had the same connection with the community as if I was there permanently. During those times I didn’t get anywhere close to the beach resorts you have in mind. I later took my family there on vacation and we did enjoy the resorts as tourists while we were not with my wife’s relatuves in Tunis. (Altho Libya has considerably more ” beach” than Tunisia does.)
            My only conclusion is that only some external influence could have changed that world I knew – to what I’m now told it has become.

          494. Mathew Molk says

            All stinking moslem countries laws have identical tenants,,,Some coincidence, huh?

          495. Mustafa Curtess says

            That is what one would conclude from popular hearsay when one chooses to do so.
            Go there and see the reality for yourself and you will know that is far from true.
            Let’s face it: Your seething hatred for Islam is so deep that you are blinded by it.

          496. COMPU-TRON says

            Hard to find a good tenant.

          497. NonPCconservative says

            “certain sharia is based upon Koranic verse”? That’s not what you said in the comment that I questioned. As for your vague denial that Islamic countries laws are based on sharia you might try to explain the existence of “Sharia Police”, a real item in many Islamic countries.

            “I can neither intellectually nor morally subscribe to religion some
            years ago, and feel absolutely no responsibility for any of its flaws”?! Perhaps you should have thought of this before you decided to become an apologist for a religion which you say cannot be understood without being a Moslem, a facile and ridiculous comment given the merest modicum of thought.

          498. Mustafa Curtess says

            You argue about anything I have to say – and there is no way to avoid that besides just signing off on your hate-driven nonsense as if it were my own. (lol! And even then, if I made a typo you would bitch about it.)
            I’ve offered an honest assessment from my own personal experience and hopefully others than yourself have read and consider it.
            I have explained that sharia does not exist as a document and that each community considers its customs and codes based upon Koranic content as “sharia”.
            Good that you mentioned “sharia police” (I had actually forgotten about them). They did exist – (I never had any contact with any of them) but was led to understand that they were a specially-talented squad that answered family disputes, kids that got in trouble (or headed for trouble) that needed a “good talking to” by someone that represented authority that demanded respect. (I’ve heard of people here that call the police to ask for help with their dangerously wayward and rebellious children, runaway children, parents who have been beaten by their children, etc.)
            I can imagine that in a very fundamentalist country like Saudi Arabia, “sharia police” probably operate differently and with more authority – but I haven’t seen it for myself. In general I would consider them more interested in morality – than in actual criminal behavior.
            I’m also confident that our Christian community here subliminally approve the concept and would welcome something like it here. (“Bedroom police” – so to speak. and I have the notion that certain Christian cults actually have something similar. The Amish or the Mormons or etc.)

          499. NonPCconservative says

            Honest assessment? I doubt if you even understand the meaning of the terms. You have either been gullible enough to fall for the vapid explanations regarding sharia police that you were “led to understand” (what a wonderful turn of phrase, unintentionally explaining your complete lack of true understanding) or else you are fully aware of the garbage that you are spreading.

            I grow tired of leftists like you who automatically equate conservatives with Christianity. I am an atheist with no dog in that fight. I do not hate most Muslims, being married to one and a father to three. I reserve my hate for those who would harm others over their beliefs. You only get contempt as a useful fool for the radicals for whom you would apologize.

            As for lecturing you on what you should do it is likely too far past the time when you should have been taught that honesty is the best policy or that when you don’t actually understand something you should refrain from trying to explain that something to others. Your argument from authority “I wuz over there about 40 years ago!” might have fooled some idiots on the left but many others will call out your BS.

          500. Mustafa Curtess says

            I have been completely honest. Have you overlooked my frequent caveat: “This is my personal experience and it may have been different elsewhere?” My only point is: That whatever you believe about some Muslims is certainly not true of others.
            Muslim wife – huh? So how long were you “over there” – and how the dickens did you manage to marry a Muslim woman without at least pretending to be Muslim yourself?
            That is STRICTLY forbidden in Islam – because the father dictates how the children will be raised – and the notion of a Muslim woman’s child being raised as non-Muslim is totally unacceptable. The wife can be literally ANYTHING – but the husband MUST be Muslim. (How did you not know that? Were you not married in a Muslim country?)
            So far as I know – I am the only ethnic American that has (legitimately) married a Libyan girl in Libya.
            I have made no “apologies” for anybody. I don’t have a dog in this fight, either – but I just dislike seeing dogs fight. (Especially when it may wind up under MY feet.)

          501. Mathew Molk says

            Stop reading the abridged copy.

          502. Mustafa Curtess says

            My copy is certified by al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. (That is where every Muslim countries sends men to be educated and ordained as Imams). It was a gift from the Imam of Libya’s official religious affairs council. Mine is certainly NOT “abriged” – but from so much of the nonsense floating around – I have to assume that they are studying heavily abriged ones. I repeat: Religion is superstition, and it has not been part of my life for many years.
            It seems to still be eating you alive – and I hope that someday you will banish it from your life and find peace also.

          503. AKLady says

            Christian Sharia which has existed in the United States

            Business must close on Sunday.
            Abortion is a crime.
            Birth control is a crime.
            Punish sex outside of marriage.
            Imprison unwed mothers.
            Convict and imprison homosexuals.
            Sterilize unwed mothers against their will.
            Sterilize the mentally ill against their will.
            Sterilize the mentally challenged against their will.
            Prohibit inter-racial marriage.

            There is more, but this should wake up the younger folks who missed

            all that reality.

          504. usmcltc says

            “Christian Sharia”? Were do you get this stuff. None, I say again, NONE of the things you listed are practiced in the U.S. today. I fear that you are locked in living in the past, but that does not make you an expert on ANYTHING. Your opinions are out moated and irrelevant.

          505. Mustafa Curtess says

            Islamic Sharia isn’t practiced in the U.S. today. Only Christian Sharia is allowed to. Furthermore: I’ve watched Christian Jihad in action all my adult life.

          506. AKLady says

            The word “existed” is past tense.
            However, Christian Sharia has been returning.

            How many more of these laws do they want to impose?
            What will our nation look like if their crusade is successful?

          507. Mustafa Curtess says

            Indeed! There is MUCH more.

          508. Mustafa Curtess says

            It can only make matters worse to wipe out only ONE of them. The entire imaginary concept of a Supreme Being must be exposed for the hoax that it is.
            Mankind is already threatened by our out-of-control population explosion – and a fixed habitat to sustain it (which I hope every thinking person ponders at least occasionally). In order to survive – we are going to have to find or develope some original solutions, and abandon the failed ones.
            The religionists’ inflexible, superstitious, “answer” – is to either kill masses of numbers for a temporary “fix” – or to immerse themselves in their “holy books” and pray for their imaginary “god” to “deliver” them. (Including an “Apocalypse” – from which their “kill them all” philosophy originates.)

          509. COMPU-TRON says

            Are you a Vonnegut fan?