Socialized Medicine: Britain Bans Obese, Smokers From Getting Surgery

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The largest and oldest single-payer healthcare system in the world, Britain’s National Health Service has announced that they will no longer provide non-urgent surgery to patients who smoke or patients who are above a certain BMI. The decision comes as the health services is suffering from a critical shortfall in funding and looking for ways to pinch pennies in advance of a financial crisis. To little surprise, the announcement was immediately met with intense pushback from the British public, the Royal College of Surgeons, and many others who see no reason why taxpaying Brits should be suddenly refused the services they fund.

The new rules were developed by clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in Hertfordshire. Under the regulatory guidelines, obese patients will be compelled to lose weight before being given the green light for surgery. Likewise, smokers will have to prove that they had their last cigarette at least eight weeks prior to going under the knife. Hospitals will test these patients with breathalyzer kits to ensure compliance with the standards.

According to the CCGs, the new rules will compel Brits “to take more responsibility for their own health and well being, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment.” The local CCGs are trying to save upwards of £68m this fiscal year, though they deny that the rules are a cost-saving measure.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” Royal College of Surgeons Vice President Ian Eardley told the UK Telegraph. “This goes against clinical guidelines and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can lead to even worse outcomes following surgery in some cases. There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures.”

American proponents of universal healthcare schemes like those proposed by Bernie Sanders would do well to take a long, hard look at this and think about whether or not this is the right direction for U.S. healthcare. Do we really want to create a system that will allow government officials to determine whether or not you or someone you love qualifies for surgery? Or would you prefer to have the freedom of choice that allows YOU and YOUR DOCTOR to make decisions based on what’s best for you?

Skinny non-smokers may feel justified in sneering at such a morbid future, but you can rest assured that NHS won’t stop dividing patients at obesity or tobacco usage. Have you had a soda in the last month? Have you smoked a joint in the last year? Can you pass the Congressional fitness test? Once the system starts going broke – and it will – the federal government will come up with all kinds of schemes to retain solvency. Sooner or later, those schemes will come down on you or someone in your family.

944 Comments
  1. Justin Seine says

    Self inflicted wounds should not be allowed to be addressed with health insurance!

    1. chucky001 says

      Agreed, but the moment anything like that is tried here, the tobacco farmers will be up in arms. They’re an even sorrier lot than the coal miners, but you can bet Tweety Pie will be there to lick their balls for political gain.

      1. Justin Seine says

        I won’t argue with that, but it is more likely that the Tobacco Industry will threaten to withhold its tradition of lining political pockets with generous contributions that will squash it. Money talks and when it does politicians are “All Ears”

        1. Retired says

          That is what Politics is all about today ,how much money they can raise for themselves and the party .

          1. albaby2 says

            That’s why liberals hate Trump. They can’t buy him.

          2. Francisco Machado says

            Today? Cassius “bought” his way into the Triumvirate. That element is a tradition of very long standing in politics.

        2. albaby2 says

          Does that include money from George Soros and Hollywood types?. Rap musicians and Eminem?

        3. ernldo says

          Silly chuck, its no different in how the demotard party has been selling bad goods to the base for DECADES, keeping the low thinkers on the plantation. Democrats have taken more tobacco money than the GOP, but how stupid must one be to NOT see smoking for the danger it is?

        4. TrueAmerican says

          What does the Tobacco industry have to do with it, did they hold a gun to anyone/s head and force them to Smoke ?????? People/Sheep make stupid choices and why should someone else be the ones to take the blame?

      2. Kenneth Blum says

        How about we just keep government out of the insurance business!

        1. mary murphy says

          Now there’s a profound idea. What! make your own decisions and suffer your own consequences? I agree with that philosophy, which seems to be falling to the wayside in this increasingly socialized nation.

      3. mary murphy says

        Tacky and uncalled for remark.

    2. albaby2 says

      Yep, same goes if you’re injured participating in a sport, found at fault in a car accident, falling off a ladder that was not positioned according to Government Standards, doing anything by yourself, as in a one person accident, only one person can be at fault, etc.

  2. Bill O'Neil says

    Single payer health care gets you a lot closer to “you and your doctor” making your health care decisions than letting insurance companies and big pharma making the decisions which is what we had before ACA.

    1. Retired says

      Are you a mental nut that you always say the opposite of what is really going on .You talk just like Pelosi and Schumer out of their rear end .

      1. chucky001 says

        We know that you are a clueless Trumptard. While it is true that under systems like Canada’s the govt does make decisions on your care, the system in the UK is better in that they also allow private supplemental insurance, unlike Canada. Similar to Medicare Advantage. So you have more say in your care than a pure single payer or a pure market based system. So thank you for allowing me to relieve your ignorance. And I hope you’re enjoying what comes out of the Trumpster’s rear end.

        1. Retired says

          You are what comes out of trumps rear and it is ugly like you ,one and the same .Since the ACA the Dr. have less control over how to treat you as they now have to follow insurance guidelines and the same goes for the meds they prescribe .

          1. Morton99 says

            You have always had the right to purchase more health insurance so what is your gripe ? There is a fantasy floating around that somehow Obamacare has made insurance more expensive. Let me point out that without Obamacare there would be NO affordable insurance at all. The entire system was on the brink of collapse.

          2. albaby2 says

            Really. I thought the beef was that they were making too much money!

          3. Morton99 says

            That is an entirely different issue. The main reason for inflated medical costs is that healthcare is treated like a supermarket item. The argument of course is that the consumer should be able to exercise his free choice and that that will cause competition and using capitalist principles – bring the price down to the most efficient level. So it is worth trying to work out why that has not happened – and it is pretty simple. Consumers of healthcare do not have the education to make a simple choice like which TV set to buy. Not only does that take years of training but it is also not an exact science. When you add to that the fact that when people actually need to deal with a medical problem they are often stressed and even panicked.

          4. TrueAmerican says

            Obamacare in NOT affordable, it’s forced payment with deductibles that are so far out of reach for the average person they will Never use the coverage, unless the Govt bails them out with co pay on the premium and deductible. that person driving the $500 car cannot come up with $5,000 to $8000 deductible so it’s a worthless forced tax on the American people. so the Insurance companies can make tons of $$$$$ and the politicians get their Kick backs

          5. Francisco Machado says

            If it’s a fantasy that Obama has made insurance more expensive, why are all the exchanges bankrupt? Why is Obamacare sucking so much money out of other programs to stay afloat? Why did Obama find it necessary to violate the Risk Corridor law that strictly limited its funding to profits of the associated insurers – even though he is on record as saying “It’s the law. You can’t change it”? To all appearances, the cost of the Obamacare insurance program has not just been more expensive, it has been destructively expensive. All the taxpayer money the government has poured into this program is part of the expense of insurance under the Obama plan.

          6. Morton99 says

            While I do not think that a private healthcare system will ever be able to compete with the healthcare of other nations – there are some things which directly cause the escalation of prices – and they have nothing to do with Obamacare. The fact is that we have a system that pretends to be so to maintain privacy about patient records (it actually does nothing of the sort) that requires patients to be checked with an array of expensive tests every time they change doctors (which is a lot considering 20 percent of Americans change locations every year on average) or see a specialist. Many tests are done to protect doctors from liability law suits, not to make a patient more healthy – but you are charged for it. Then there is a totally out of control Big Pharma that forced Congress to allow it to operate as a virtual monopoly, prohibit competition from imports – and has become the most expensive component of healthcare with one exception – the last three months of your life.
            They make enormous profits and never even pay for the 30-40 percent of R&D that the government does on many drugs – funded by the taxpayer and given buck free to that industry. Then there are arcane rules that prohibit licensed nurses from administering the simplest procedures like inoculations – in many states. Cost rise because this huge for profit industry wants to maintain its profits and Congress is unable to heel them in. They pay for much of their election campaigns. Go figure.

          7. Retired says

            What does any of what you say got to do with how the Insurance control the Dr. and what Meds you can have . It all got worse since the ACA !!! Did you Know that so called free Physical turns into a full charge if you bring up a ailment or problem as it pays more ????

          8. Morton99 says

            You make a good point. The ACA was only ever a band aid. Nothing will really work well until we have single payer option AKA a single payer option.

          9. Retired says

            A very expensive Band Aid to the Taxpayers . Medicare is already a single payer system .

          10. Morton99 says

            Yes – and there is much talk of actually building a full single payer system on top of it. It would immediately reduce healthcare costs by 1/3. No HMOs.

          11. Retired says

            We are already at the Bare bones and the worst of are the Elderly with ailments . Just look at the pain medicine Issue and yet they wont close the border to Illegal drugs . They have combined the Medicine deaths with Illegal Drug deaths . What a wonderful Congress we have NOT .

        2. TrueAmerican says

          so let me get this right, in the UK you are forced to pay for their Shitty one pay health care system and you think it’s great that you can also buy your own private health care on top of that so you have good health care coverage? you must be the driver of that short bus for Kevin and Nick. you can buy private health coverage here in the US too but that is on top of the worthless ACA that costs to much with deductibles that 90% of the people cannot afford so they NEVER use the Obama Crap they are forced to buy. Canada’s health system is the worst in the world next to NK and the UK system sucks with wait times up to a year or more for many things that cost more money.

        3. mac12sam12 says

          Socialized medicine is so great that thousands of people in countries with that system come to the US for their healthcare. Move to Europe, retard.

  3. jgfsmf says

    But thank God they fixed Hillary’s tow…..I mean toe.

  4. Justin Henderson says

    But thank God they fixed Hillary’s tow…..I mean toe.

    1. kenrmer says

      …hoof. Please use correct anatomy terms.

  5. chucky001 says

    Well if you smoke or eat junk food it’s your own fault. And it sounds like a GOP congresswoman’s bill to allow ERs to turn away patients. Still it’s better than Trumpcare, where if you dare to have a pre-existing condition or if you are forced to buy coverage on your own, your state would be allowed to let insurers charge you more or deny you altogether.

    1. TrueAmerican says

      well you should be charged more for a Pre-Existing condition. Insurance is to protect from the UNKNOWN accidents, Health problems that have NOT happened yet “the UNKNOWN” if you buy a house that has been burned down you can’t get insurance on it that will rebuild it for you after the fact. you can’t buy collision insurance for your car AFTER you had an accident, You can’t buy that winning lottery ticket after the numbers are picked why should INSURANCE pay for a health condition that you know about and should have taken care of prior to making someone else pay for YOUR mistakes of not taking care of yourself?????????????????

      1. Karen says

        I’d like to add that before Obamacare people with pre-existing conditions did get health care. They just had to wait a certain amount of time before their coverage kicked in for the condition. They got coverage for everything else except the pre-existing condition. I forget how long the wait was, it wasn’t real long. They just wanted you to pay some into the insurance before you started using it for that condition.

    2. Robert H Batchelor says

      I wasn’t aware that one had the choice to “dare to have a preexisting condition”. If, by your logic, you “choose” to have a preexisting condition. shouldn’t you be denied, per the British logic?

    3. mac12sam12 says

      Why should we pay for irresponsible people who were too stupid to get a plan before they got their pre-existing conditions? That’s one of the reasons healthcare costs have gone up by $5,000. We also need tort reform which would lower costs as well.

  6. nick says

    Single payer health care gets you a lot closer to “you and your doctor” making your health care decisions than letting insurance companies and big pharma making the decisions which is what we had before ACA.

    1. Retired says

      Did you forget about Obama care you can keep your insurance and Dr. ???? Well the media never reported how many lost both and it cost more at the exchange with less coverage . That was the biggest lie of the century . My coverage allows me to go any place , but there have been restrictions put on Drs. as to how to treat you and the same goes for meds since the ACA took affect . So single payer will not make for better Treatment if you have health problems .

    2. ernldo says

      Only the suckers fall for that swill….

    3. TrueAmerican says

      Nick, You came here on the same Short Bus as Kevin didn’t you. are you two Room mates ?

      1. Chi Sam says

        Roommates is one word, proving that some of those who rode the long bus are just as dumb.

    4. Sammy says

      No Nick, single payers puts your care in the hands of a panel of bourocrats who know nothing about you. ( I think spell check has failed me)

  7. gotabgood says

    It seems the rightwing is choosing not to run this story… so here is a soldier telling his view.. maybe this will be the first you heard of it.

    3rd SFG(A), Trump, and my rage meter

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/18/1707729/-3rd-SFG-A-Trump-and-my-rage-meter?detail=emaildkre

    1. Retired says

      Boy are you ever a sucker for that story . The only part you cared about was the hate against Trump .

      1. gotabgood says

        Why is that a lie??
        The only part you think is a lie is the hatred for Trump..

        1. Retired says

          The article stunk like a Skunk as it walks by speaking of Skunks do you have that White streak down your back ???

          1. gotabgood says

            Is this what you call a debate?? You want to see if you can offend me by your brainless, childish remarks.
            You have something to talk about… fine…. other than that……. why bother… it is a total waste of time for both of us.

          2. Retired says

            You don’t like facts about the Garbage you post ??? Nothing to debate about trash !!

          3. gotabgood says

            you know… you say nothing!! You call names…. throw your opinions around like someone cared about your opinions….. back nothing up…. actually you’re a waste of time… unless you just want to argue…. and I don’t…

          4. Retired says

            You have to admit some of the stuff is nasty you post and not something that is debatable . I mainly reply to individual posts , just like I do Not belong to either party and going Independent only works on the state level . It has been proven several times that a independent can Not get the Electoral vote for president .

          5. gotabgood says

            Was you pulling for Sanders?

          6. Retired says

            My Person lost out during the debates . Sanders is another Hillary ,give the store away . Instead of Changing the law to allow student loans to be refinanced at a lower interest rate , they want to make it free for votes . Why don’t they just say give your Check to the government and we will give you pocket change to live off of . Time to eliminate PAC money and off shore funding for elections .

          7. gotabgood says

            Ever hear the slogan “Make America Great AGAIN”..that means at a time America was great!! Maybe back when one per household had to work… Unions set the pay standard.
            AND some colleges were FREE!!
            So when America Was Great…. so was the pay and so was education..

          8. Retired says

            Yup that goes way back for most of us and even the parents .Biggest problem was the Educators Union got to big for its britches in the 50s. They have better working conditions and benefits than the Auto Industry ever had . Gov. Union Workers also fall under that .

          9. gotabgood says

            The republican party have a little word they like to use that they think will cure all our problems….. that word is CUT!
            Cut taxes… and then the budget don’t get met and they raise taxes as in bush sr. Or fire government workers.
            Cut spending, but it is always aimed at the people who need it the most.
            Cut government, but never do, in fact they create more government. PA, TSA, DHS, who is monitoring all the new laws about abortion? The new ID laws?
            Paper work, staffing.
            Cut unions, bring in RTW… wages and benefits are at an all time low… hours worked at an all time high.. except during the sweat shop days, which is the direction we’re heading.
            Just look at the next time you hear them want to cut something, it will involve.
            Old people…. whether it is SS, Medicare, Medicaid, either or both in payments due or coverage allowed.
            Healthcare… you can’t afford it….. DIE!
            Wages
            Benefits
            Government agencies that help with food, quality of air, water and the pesticides that get passed by Trump!
            Schools
            Science… let’s go back to the 19 century
            NASA/NOAA
            Green energy

          10. Retired says

            Most of that you can blame on congress and both parties with their add ons to bills .What does all that have to do with the Educators and Gov. employees Union . Why do you always switch subjects .

          11. gotabgood says

            If you would read the list AGAIN..
            EVERY ITEM on the list has to do with Educators, Government workers and Unions.

          12. Retired says

            I read the list . I also know where the problem lies , campaign money mainly Laundered PAC which both parties rely on .

          13. gotabgood says

            It seems like every time I agree with you, the following days you resort back to your rightwing base and start with the name calling and passing around rhetoric…… so I will just say, I see where you are coming from..

          14. Retired says

            The only Right wing I have is for Cleaning house in the Government and that includes both parties . Nobody posted nasty pictures of the past presidents the way it is being done to Trump , enough is enough . Congress is a bigger problem than the president and that was proven with the last 3 presidents .

          15. gotabgood says

            Congress is a joke… Senate is not far behind, which then brings us to Trump.
            The things that has happened to him, he has brought on himself with his lying. Who gives a big flying leap who got the biggest crowd at the inauguration??
            TRUMP CARES!! AND LIES ABOUT IT!! He even lied about the rain… then during his press conference, on campaign … He presented this.. And mind you…. he is a Republican of sorts … too many branches to keep up with any more.. that is reporting this.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1f5949cc77c392bfb35c60a8d1ad7a47669bd3b19977ed531f3668e42938f9fe.jpg

          16. gotabgood says

            Please don’t be serious about Trump being picked on more than Obama….

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/242831ffeeca7bb229ca273bd468de1d12e54ede5be20c2d4281e11afb52f001.jpg

        2. mac12sam12 says

          The only ones who hate Trump are the liberals who are 20% of the electorate and free stuff people like you.

      2. ernldo says

        gottabeGay is just shilling for a free sex enhancement, why not just block the simple minded mook?

        1. USN Vet 31yrs Svc says

          I have blocked all the profane, illiterate, and factless posts. The posts that are left are more informative and give food for thought.
          Try it. You will like it.

          1. ernldo says

            Yup, I have many blocked here…..and thanks 31 times for your service!!!

          2. USN Vet 31yrs Svc says

            Your welcome. It was an honor to have been selected to serve America.

    2. albaby2 says

      Daily Kos? Yep. They’re an objective,unbiased source. LOL

      1. gotabgood says

        John the Baptist most likely wasn’t the most well dressed God could have sent, he might not have smelled so good either.. maybe wasn’t as handsome as some of the other messengers… But God chose him to deliver the message…. Daily Kos is a messenger… look at the message not the messenger.

  8. kevin says

    Single payer health care gets you a lot closer to “you and your doctor” making your health care decisions than letting insurance companies and big pharma making the decisions which is what we had before ACA.

    1. Dave McFarland says

      At what price?

    2. ernldo says

      Shirley, you jest?

    3. TrueAmerican says

      Kevin, you are brand new to this world aren’t you.

    4. USN Vet 31yrs Svc says

      You best study the VA. Purely socialized meds. I am on the new VA Choice program with a private care doctor. Every procedure recommended must be cleared by a non-doctor or med professional at the VA. Each request takes 30+days if they haven’t lost the request. You are approved for care but not for any procedures. This includes xrays, blood tests, urine tests, shots, stitches, etc. Common tests necessary so the Doc has a baseline to start. Every procedure is measured by cost not need. It took 6 months to find a Doc that would accept VA patients. Beware of what you wish for. Meicare is another social med. Doctors are not accepting new patients to their roles. Because they pay about 25% of billed services. Docs close to retirement, are leaving early. You are now seeing third world Docs replacing them. Good luck with social meds.

  9. Morton99 says

    The operative words are ‘non essential’. You will find that only the most outrageously priced insurances under any system have ever paid for non essential surgery. The fact that it used to be available in the UK is extraordinary.

    1. Tired... says

      That depends upon the meaning of non-essential. For example, does non-essential mean non-life threatening, as is repairing a torn rotator cuff, or does it mean cosmetic, as in a nose job? Regardless of the answer, healthcare ultimately comes down to who controls the patient’s freedom.

      1. ernldo says

        Or a lssbo “needing” an addadicktome?

      2. Morton99 says

        Non essential has a very simple meaning. It means surgery that can be delayed, or even canceled – without worsening a patient’s condition.

        1. TrueAmerican says

          Which under the UK socialist medicine can mean a life threatening problem may or may not be delayed, it’s happened many times there. and the person has died because of the wait was to long.

          1. Morton99 says

            That is a myth. I lived ten years in London and used the National Health System. Some of my wealthy friends had private insurances which gave them a choice of surgeons and even hospitals – but mostly they were people who already had spotty health records. For the general population a single payer system delivered far more than they could dream of in a nation like the USA.

          2. Morton99 says

            By all means produce some statistics to support your allegation. You will be unable to do so – oh I am sure you may find a handful of breakdowns of the system – that happens in any institution – but I suspect you are just quoting much of the deliberate propaganda manufactured by the HMOs and Big Pharma.

        2. Tired... says

          Does that mean that Britain offers cosmetic surgery as a basic part of its national healthcare?

          1. Morton99 says

            OMG – and I thought you understood English. What on earth does cosmetic surgery have to do with a patient’s medical condition. Perhaps you mean mental condition ?

          2. Tired... says

            Based on your definition, I was asking for a clarification. In other words, cosmetic surgery fit your original definition of non-essential. Cosmetic surgery isn’t just tummy tucks, noses jobs,and breast enhancements. If you recall, the government paid for Bradly Manning’s surgery.

          3. Morton99 says

            Sex change therapy is NOT cosmetic surgery. Period. It is not a frivolous sort of non essential medical procedure – it is classified as essential and we are not talking about shaping pretty tits.

          4. Tired... says

            Sex change surgery is cosmetic, as it does not make a male able to create eggs or provide a female with the ability to create sperm. Instead it fashions non-functioning replicas of the desired genitalia. To avoid any unnecessary diversions, the term “non-functioning genitalia” refers to the sexual function of the organs only, not the waste removal functions. Although the patient may not like it, the “surgery can be delayed, or even canceled – without worsening a patient’s condition”, which is your definition of non-essential. As I pointed out, cosmetic does not necessarily mean frivolous, and your vigorous defense makes my point.

    2. just saying says

      The article stated ‘non urgent.’. That puts those with ‘Urgent need,’ in shape, first. Non essential, could mean not needed.

  10. Alleged-Comment says

    I actually agree with them on this one. If the public has to pay for it you are personally responsible to stay healthy.

    So if you overeat or smoke cigarettes (not cigars and pipes) you’re on your own. Bye-bye.

    1. ernldo says

      Yup, and druggies needing a new organ later in life?…Sorry, Mr Crosby. Sl/uts in need of another abortion? Pay for it. The lowlife demotards better be careful of what they wish for…..

    2. Robert says

      So what you’re saying is, all the money that came from those people’s pockets, that they shouldn’t be allowed to use.
      That’s robbing them of money that they contributed.
      But it’s okay for a Slut to get an abortion, when she can’t keep her legs closed.

      1. Grade school says

        Vocabulary has really gone down hill, in our country. The Proper word, would be, apart. Doors, windows, and businesses, open and close.

      2. Ron C says

        Or now according to one judge in a black robe…any women in the world can now beat it across the border and get free abortions….but damnit let the fat guys die…??? right?

      3. Alleged-Comment says

        If a lady wants an abortion SHE PAYS FOR IT. Simple, no? Just because we are GIVING, stop your GREEDY behavior.

    3. tCotUS says

      I lost a friend waiting for a liver transplant….He was on a waiting list. They told him no more smoking/ drinking..He didn’t listen & they passed him over on the list. He chose to die, I do not blame the the donor center at all..He CHOSE his destiny.

    4. TexasCoyote1 says

      This is where we get into the liberal progressive placing greater value on the group and the conservative placing greater value on the individual. Your statement indicates you are all about the group. Individuals pays for these medical services, but those services are allocated based on what is best for the group.

      No provision is made for the overweight, smoking executive who has suffered hypertension in order to create a business that hires several hundred people. He is assumed to be just another interchangeable cog in the wheel of life. But, he isn’t, and that is where the liberal/progressive/socialist system breaks down.

      1. Sammy says

        Well it’s true that man has never been able to create a society that achieves the perfect balance between the rights of the individual and the good of the community.Human nature gets in the way every time.

      2. Alleged-Comment says

        You’re a bleeding heart lieberal, aren’t you? Just because you think you are getting FREE health care does not mean you BLOW your body on food and cigarettes.

        What happened to individual responsibility with you lieberals?? I always start with the individual. Not “group” think with you morons.

        1. TexasCoyote1 says

          No, I am absolutely not a bleeding-heart liberal. I am a dyed-in-the-wool conservative. I totally believe the individual is responsible for his own health. My point was socialized medicine collects from everyone, but does not and cannot give all the medical care to everyone. There aren’t enough resources to do this.

          If people want to destroy their bodies through excesses in any substance abuse, it should not be my money that pays for their care. But, it was also my point there are jobs that create greater stress than others which normally have greater rewards. Those who receive greater rewards should not be punished by being under the same system as those who do not.

          1. Alleged-Comment says

            You are 99% there, but it’s always the 1% that kills you. But if you make an excuse one job has more stress than others then they ALL have stress.

            You are sneaking an a liberal agenda here with a thousand excuses.

    5. Ron C says

      Or now according to one judge in a black robe…any women in the world can now beat it across the border and get free abortions….but damnit let the fat guys die…???…Yeeesss.

  11. anibanib says

    And nobody noticed the lie by the author of the article,

    Germany has the world’s oldest national social health insurance system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck’s Sickness Insurance Law of 1883. In Britain, the National Insurance Act 1911 included national social health insurance for primary care (not specialist or hospital care), initially for about one third of the population—employed working class wage earners, but not their dependents. This system of health insurance continued in force until the creation of the National Health Service in 1948 which created a universal service, funded out of general taxation rather than on an insurance basis, and providing health services to all legal residents.

  12. Jere Crouse says

    What do you say. At least the Brits got it right.

    1. ernldo says

      Right in the kazoo….

  13. Ron Dapo says

    SOCIALIZE AMERICA would never ever work. What happened to buying your own healthcare? If you don’t want it fine, why am l forced to buy it for you?

    1. Morton99 says

      Because not even the best doctor can predict your future ailments. And if you are not insured you are probably taking a bet that the government will be forced to pay for your healthcare if you go broke – because it would be political suicide in this country to see people dying on the street for want of care. That means that whether you deliberately do it or not you are gaming the system and not paying your fair share.

      1. Ron Dapo says

        Thanks for the comment Morton 99, as l recall in the 60s 70s 80s 90s nobody was dying in the streets. The cost of urgent care services simply raised the cost of insurance that people bought, as for paying my fair
        Share. I’ve done it since 1959. It’s a simple concept really. I’ll buy my home, you buy yours.The system you refer to is called SOCIALIZE medicine.

        1. Morton99 says

          Call it what you like. We have a terrible record for healthcare – number 30 apparently of all nations – and the ONLY nation that pretends for profit healthcare is better than one managed by a dedicated government agency.

          1. TexasCoyote1 says

            Well, why don’t we divide the country into those who want government healthcare and those who want private healthcare and check back in a couple of decades and see which group is doing better.

            Government is inept at best and in this arena, they will be downright deadly. This article is just a sample of how bad it would get in the US. Great Britain is a relatively small country, and yet its system is falling apart as more and more baby boomers are reaching the end of the lives.

          2. Morton99 says

            Oh – I think that the Blue States would secede in a flash if they could – and make their own union probably including Canada. If you created a union going up the west coast to Canada and down through the eastern seaboard – you would have on paper the richest nation on earth. It would also have public healthcare.

          3. TexasCoyote1 says

            I’m all for you. Where do I sign? Texas would close its borders in a heartbeat and be a wonderful country without all the liberal demands made on it by the likes of you.

          4. Morton99 says

            Something we agree on at last !

          5. TexasCoyote1 says

            There is just one caveat. When your blue nation runs out of money because no government can afford to provide for its citizens all the services you feel the citizens are due, don’t try to rejoin the red state. We don’t want you, and we certainly don’t want your “need.”

            Rugged individuals who were responsible for themselves were what have made this country great–not the current generation of self-absorbed Snapchatters and Facebookers.

          6. Morton99 says

            The union I describe is currently a net lender, not a net debtor. You need to do some research – your Texan nation is a borrower because it refuses to raise enough taxes to provide basic citizen services.

          7. TexasCoyote1 says

            Morton, if Texas and other fly-over states were not burdened with federally mandated welfare programs, the taxes collected would more than pay for all the services the working population of Texas demands from its government. School administrators would be reduced to a principal, secretary and part-time nurse as they were when I was in school. There would be no welfare. The current system of taxpayer-funded county hospitals would be sufficient to care for those who are unable to pay. Privately funded charities would be created to handle any other needs of people who found themselves suddenly unable to care for themselves.

            I disagree with your assertion that Texas is a net lender state–the figures I have seen range from Texas getting back $1.00 for every $1.02 to $1.07 paid in federal taxes, but for the sake of this discussion it doesn’t matter because Texas would not spend more than it collected.

            I am afraid all those with “need” would immigrate to your new blue country because there would simply be no programs in Texas to pay for their entitlements. Texas would then be in a position to expand its economy which is already booming even with federal government regulation and taxation.

          8. Morton99 says

            Liberals get people to work because they reward them. New York State is generally a liberal state. It is also one of the wealthiest. Magic ? No, … good management.

          9. TexasCoyote1 says

            Liberals only get people to work by giving them government jobs. Government produces nothing except more government. Government can’t manage a 2-car …. funeral procession.

          10. Morton99 says

            That is simply untrue in the example I gave – New York.

          11. TexasCoyote1 says

            Morton, please refer to the website below:

            http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/states-most-government-workers-public-employees-by-job-type.html

            It shows that New York employs 91 government employees per 10,000 in population while Texas employs 65 per 10,000 in population.

            I know that Texas has a system of county hospitals for the poor which are funded by property taxes that skews this figure even higher in Texas than for states which do not have such a system.

            Your “facts” simply do not tally with your comments.

          12. Morton99 says

            You misunderstand. We give people more services than many other states because we can afford to do so. We NEED those workers to work in government jobs for this reason. We do not create jobs – as you suggest – by ‘giving’ them useless jobs.

          13. TexasCoyote1 says

            Texans, as a whole, do not want government to “give” them the services your state holds so dear. My statement stands. Government jobs are government jobs regardless of what services are performed. There is no service government performs that cannot be performed more efficiently and less expensively through private means.

            Here, we want to pay for the services we require and have our fellow citizens do the same.

          14. Morton99 says

            You are not even correct there. The SSA (government) spends 2 percent of its revenues on management. The HMOs (private!) spend 33 percent.

          15. TexasCoyote1 says

            HMO’s are a poor example and since all your other statistics have been flawed, I’m not even inclined to accept those.

            The institution of HMO’s were the beginning step that has brought us to the brink of socialized medicine. Medicine did well when everyone paid for medical treatment out of their own pocket and insurance was only for catastrophic disease or accident. I would like to see a return to that system when every individual had to budget what they felt they could afford for medical treatment in the same way they budget for what they can spend at the grocery store or the gas station.

          16. Morton99 says

            That’s a pipe dream. Its like saying women should be stay at home wives. That horse has run. Do you realize that the cities are full of doctors – competing for patients – but the countryside is what is having the problem. Again it is a rural versus urban issue. Actually NYC has rather innovatively created a mass of Urgent Care facilities. I have three within walking distance. They see you within 45 minutes and can deal with a mass of issues from xrays, and broken bones, in other words the bulk of emergency ER issues – no triage – but everything else. They are also inexpensive. A standard copay of $ 75 and that’s it.

          17. Jeanne Knudsen says

            oh so true Tex……remember when a Dr. made a house call and it cost$10.?

          18. Jeanne Knudsen says

            just an FYI “SSA’ is social security administration NOT a NY company

          19. Morton99 says

            If you bothered to read the post chain you wouldn’t make such a dumb remark.

          20. Jeanne Knudsen says

            IF NY is so great……why is the cost of living so high, and you have so many ghetto areas? Texas and red states have more and better employment stats then NY ever dreamed of

          21. kbmiller says

            Moron99 and the rest of his DumbA$$ok RAT friends never care about FACTS.

          22. kbmiller says

            Moron, ever consider geography? Probably not. Think Chicago you DUMBASS.

          23. Morton99 says

            I don’t pretend to try and solve the many problems of Illinois or even Texas for that matter. My point was NY which I know very well.

          24. kbmiller says

            Through history, cities were formed/populated on their geography, usually near large bodies of water, MORON. This pattern was for trade/business, not the socialist demands of the lazy leaches demanding free stuff. It happens that New York and the large cities on the East Coast fit this geographical pattern. So does Chicago(Hub of the Nation) due it’s geography, southwestern most Great Lake. The socialism was brought to these areas by crooked DumbA$$ok RAT politicians, interested in power and filling their own pockets with ill gained money under the pretense of, “Helping the needy” in exchange for their VOTES. Until you can wrap your tiny brain around the truth, MORON, you’ll continue to wander in the world of illusion created by LIES.

          25. Morton99 says

            There’s no point in a discussion with you. Your mind is so full of propaganda that you have lost any reasoning power.

          26. kbmiller says

            Merkin, my facts Trump your DumbA$$ok RAT opinions once again. Tell us, genius, how the millions of welfare recipients in the inner cities of blue states fund the government. Show your ignorance again.

          27. Morton99 says

            Let me repeat since your comprehension is so poor. You are just too intellectually challenged to tangle with. Seek help and resist the temptation to make yourself a public fool.

          28. kbmiller says

            Merkin, The only thing you tangle is the web of deceit that you weave. You have NO facts to back up anything you post, only Left wing nut, lame ass opinions. How long will it take the Senate, Grassley, to expand the investigation into OHOMO and Hell LIAR y’s bribes/money laundering concerning uranium mine? Talk about another web of deceit !!! You DumbA$$ok RATS can spin a good one. If you didn’t have your head so far up Chris Matthews’ A$$, you might get the real news. Good luck, you JACKASS.

          29. Morton99 says

            And one more thing – try and cut out the sexual imagery … it may titillate you but most people find it disgusting.

          30. kbmiller says

            MerkinFUCK you, why no mention of Grassley’s investigation? Look into Victoria Toensing”s client, you know, the one who’s been silenced by AG Holder’s gag order. He’s the witness to the bribes and money laundering committed during the Russian Hell LIAR y/OHOMO uranium mine scandal. You do know that the FBI has been watching since 2009, don’t you? This should get good. A DumbA$$ok RAT presidential candidate going to prison, hopefully with a couple X presidents. You know HillBilly and OHOMO. Why are none of youA$$holes on the left defending these acts? LOL

          31. Morton99 says

            KB – farewell I am blocking you. Seriously – seek help. Your imagery is really offensive.

          32. kbmiller says

            Merkin, you can’t respond to my questions about the Clintons and OHOMO? Why not? Got nothing, huh? You sorry SOB. What a wimp.

          33. Morton99 says

            KB you really do have a problem. I tell you as a good citizen that its just plain crude in one post to refer to OHOMO, head up an ass. If you used Obamacare you would probably get sent to a good psychiatrist. Failing that try bromide or anything that might keep that wrinkled appendage buttoned down.

          34. kbmiller says

            Merkin, I believe good citizens in the USA are not Socialists. So, you aren’t a good citizen, but a JACKASS. I wouldn’t use OHOMOCARE, would you? Which and whose wrinkled appendage are you referring to? Do you have psuedonyms: AKLady, Ben Tutuous, gotabgood, shitforbrains?

          35. kbmiller says

            Merkin, in X pres. Barrack Hussein OHOMO’s 2nd book, he wrote that he’d considered living the HOMOSEXUAL lifestyle. Anyone with a brain knows that this means he’d tried it for a while. Therefore the name, “OHOMO”. You should be happy, he’s on your team.

          36. Retired says

            Is that where you got messed up, in NY and more than likely the city on top of it ????

          37. Dee Ward says

            LOL. Liberals reward the working with ever increasing taxes to support the non working. I know because I live in a uber liberal state. Every year higher taxes, new fees, etc. It keeps getting harder and harder for the middle class to support themselves.

          38. America1st says

            Then why are people and migrating in droves to other (mostly red) states? Some of the highest taxes in the country.

          39. Morton99 says

            really ? Any stats on that ?

          40. Jeanne Knudsen says

            read any non-fake news, a magazine the can also show you, WHERE TO RETIRE….it lists all kinds of places (even some in NY State) and the cost of living / retireing lhere….Guess what MOST A RED STATES

          41. Retired says

            Highest Taxes usually mean Highest Welfare .

          42. Terri says

            NY is one of the most expensive states to live in. I am from there and wouldn’t move back if my life depended on it. Ask NY’ers how they feel about their taxes. Just saying

          43. Jeanne Knudsen says

            where do you get your info??? NYC may have money only because of the international traffic and being so close to Washington.

          44. Morton99 says

            May I recommend that you bother to read a little about the diversification of New York State ? It is next to California, one of the richest states in the union.

          45. Ann Davis says

            OMG HE IS MENTALLY DEFICIENT. GOTTA’ BLOCK HIM!!!

          46. kbmiller says

            Tex, you right !!!! Why do millions of minorities gravitate to large cities? Moron 99 does not have the mental process available to see it this way. Everything the DumbA$$ok RATS consider is through their ,”Rose colored, big gummint glasses”.

          47. TexasCoyote1 says

            I think Morton99 really believes what he is saying. When I go on the hill.com I get shouted down by the liberal majority that frequents that forum. There is truly a significant group in this country that has been brainwashed by our educational system to believe the communist utopia is possible.

            Obama attempted to put this “utopia” in place, but luckily President Trump is trying to pull down all the bricks before the mortar dries.

          48. Retired says

            It will take Decades to undo Obama and Clinton mess.

          49. TexasCoyote1 says

            Yes, but at least the unwinding has begun. If Hillary had been elected, it would still be increasing. We have time to right the ship.

          50. kbmiller says

            Moron, give us the list of ALL the ,”Basic citizen services” you are referring to. This ought to be good. Got enough time?

          51. Morton99 says

            I’ll consider it KB. But I need to be assured that you have removed your head and shoulders from your rear end. Its got to be awfully hard to hear anyone with your bowels blotting out the sound.

          52. kbmiller says

            Moron 99, where/s your list? Ha ha ha, didn’t think you’d have enough guts to put something on line like free food, housing, insurance, higher education and pretty soon you Commies will be demanding cars, cowboy hats, high heeled shoes, make up and hooker lingerie. Why do you LEFTISTS discriminate against hard working, tax paying Americans?

          53. kbmiller says

            Merkin, Donna Brazille says she’s got proof that hell LIAR y rigged the DumbA$$o CROOK primary. DNC and Hell LIAR y campaign funded Fusion GPS for falsified dossier as HillBilly Clinton was meeting 1 on 1 with Putin. So who was it rigging elections and colluding with Russians? You LYING JACKASS. HA HA HA you are so f’n stupid that it is almost beyond belief. Your leaders duped you A$$WIPE leftist voters…… AGAIN !!! HA HA HA HA

          54. mary rose says

            You Morton 99 need to learn what you are talking about , because you are an idiot!!

          55. Morton99 says

            The truth hurts doesn’t it mary rose. Uncomfortable being identified as a callous and greedy person.

          56. Jeanne Knudsen says

            you are soooo wrong…..better recheck you info

          57. Morton99 says

            Oh I checked it already. And now with the hurricane cleanup it gets far worse, Texas has its hat in its hand – it will cost many billions that they do not have.

          58. Ann Davis says

            You are obviously a Moron99. Continuing to raise taxes of the working public will only last so long. Just as in the Grecian and Roman Empires, this is exactly the same thing that brought DOWN THE EMPIRES. People who work, pay their taxes year in and year out, WILL NOT CONTINUE TO DO THIS. You are selling out your country and yourself. NOBODY OWES YOU A DAMN THING. If you want it, earn it. If not, I SERIOUSLY DO NOT CARE IF EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU DROP DEAD. REVOLUTION COMING AND YOU IDIOTS HAVE NO GUNS OR AMMO AND WOULDN’T KNOW HOW TO SHOOT IF YOU DID. CAN YOU RAISE FOOD, FIND OR BUILD SHELTER? NO, YOU DON’T AND DON’T EVEN LET IT CROSS YOUR STUPID MIND YOU CAN TAKE OURS, WE HAVE GUNS, AMMO, FOOD, WATER, AND KNOW HOW TO CARE FOR OURSELVES IN THE MOUNTAINS without help from anybody. We will shoot you if you try to take anything from us learn for yourselves, we did. We had real parents who taught us how to live with nothing if necessary, we taught our children to be self sufficient, and so it goes. Geez, y’all couldn’t even live without your phones for 24 hours, never mind your games, tvs and tablets. You have crawled into those electronics and they will be your downfall because that’s all you know how to do. Better get yourself a bicycle ’cause won’t be any gas available, atm’s won’t work, neither will your credit cards–NOTHING. It is just a matter of time!

          59. Morton99 says

            I should call you Annie git yer gun ! You make a powerful case for not giving you any social benefits like social security or medicare. I agree – self sufficiency is a very good goal and it could start with you.

          60. kbmiller says

            Tex, Moron99 is a LYING leftist troll. She’s been regurgitating the socialist propaganda for quite a while. It’s her way of whining about the lost election.

          61. TexasCoyote1 says

            KB, it’s possible she is also a true-believer. There were many Bolsheviks who believed the same ideology Morton is espousing. It’s a shame that there is an entire generation coming to adulthood who “feel” rather than “think.” We can only hope that as they mature and take on the responsibilities of family and jobs, they will realize communism is a utopian dream that can never ben realized because humans are humans.

          62. Knowledge Transfer says

            Who will change your diapers?

          63. kbmiller says

            Moron, until they run out of other people’s money.

          64. susmart3 says

            By all means let the marketplace and drug patent holders decide who should live and die. – Executives like Martin Shkreli:

            “Martin Shkreli has now increased the price of a medicine used to treat Chagas disease, a parasitic infection that can cause heart failure.

            Mr Shkreli’s company, Turing Pharmacuticals, previously acquired the rights to the anti-HIV drug, Daraprim, before increasing the price from $13.50 to $700.

            This is from 12/12/15, but… you get the idea how he/others operates.

          65. TexasCoyote1 says

            There are many in this country, of whom I am one, who believes that most modern medicine is not good for you. Modern medicine is great if you are bleeding out or have broken bones–that’s it. For us holistic medicine and good nutrition are far more effective in keeping one healthy.

            I choose to not take any prescription medicines even though I am 70 years old. I am in good health. and I try to buy food that is the least contaminated. I have no desire to pay for expensive ineffective healthcare for myself or to be trapped into an obamacare style of socialized medicine that forbids me access to medical treatment I deem to be effective.

            There is a cheap remedy for parasites called MMS. It was developed by Jim Humble, but he has been discredited and forced to live in Mexico for his beliefs that his formula is effective. Daniel Smith, who used to manufacture and distribute MMS in the US has been found guilty of some trumped up charge and put in prison, so I have to buy it from a source in Australia. MMS has also been effective in the treatment of cancer, malaria, cholera and other diseases. Of course, Big Pharma cannot allow something like this to find favor among Americans because it would hit them in the pocketbook. So, their lackeys at the FDA make sure anyone who builds a better, cheaper mousetrap has the full weight of the law come down on them.

          66. Ann Davis says

            You are so correct that the garbage sold in many grocery stores is so bad for you. People need to learn how to eat fresh organic foods and stop killing themselves. No sugar, no or little processed foods, eat raw or lightly steamed as often as possible, fruits, nuts, and honey, fresh eggs, milk, small amounts of meats and lots of fresh veggies. MEATS ONLY BUY AND EAT GRASS-FED BEEF, FREE-RANGE CHICKENS, BISON. LAMB, GOAT AND FISH. Learn to cook with herbs and spices and how to use them also medicinally. Exercise, walk or ride a bike as much as possible. GET OFF THE SOFA AND MOVE.

          67. TexasCoyote1 says

            That’s about as concise a dissertation on the subject as anyone could make. I’m not too big on goat or lamb, but all the rest of it is right on for me.

          68. mac12sam12 says

            If our system is so bad, why do so many people come to the US from countries that have socialized medicine? 26% of US doctors said they would retire early or change professions if socialized medicine was implemented in the US. Doctors don’t go to school for all those years to work of the government, My next our neighbor who’s a cardiovascular surgeon came to the US to escape what he called a terrible healthcare system . He came from Canada. All those countries with socialized medicine also have extreme doctor shortages.

          69. Morton99 says

            Because we have our share of internationally renowned specialists. There is also a lot of traffic leaving the US for specialists in other countries. Unfortunately – most of this expertise is unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans.

          70. Sammy says

            Wrong again, Morton. There is no NECESSARY care unavailable to anyone in this country. If you can’t afford it, the rest of us pay it for you. Have you been to an emergency room in a large town or city lately? NO ONE is turned away.

          71. Morton99 says

            ER care has only one mandate. To patch you up enough to leave the ER. That is not healthcare. That is the role of a first responder.

          72. kbmiller says

            Stop with the LIES, MORON. That is health care. I suppose you consider MASH type triage,”Not healthcare” also. Have another drink. You are becoming more unhinged as Pres. Trumps agenda continues to succeed. Have your diaper changed and take your nap.

          73. Morton99 says

            Cool it Mister. For the most part this has been a courteous discussion. And then you butt in ….

          74. kbmiller says

            Moron99, you are ALWAYS the instigator on here. When anyone challenges your lameA$$ opinions you attack. Too bad you can’t take the heat when it comes back at you. Most people on here list facts. You repeat Left Wing Nut talking pts. You’ve been exposed as a LYING TROLL, probably paid by the DumbA$$oCROOK party.

          75. Retired says

            Lots of Non English speaking people and not just from Mexico either .

          76. kbmiller says

            MORON, you ‘re LYING again.The care is affordable, the travel may be expensive.I suggest you travel to China, North Korea or Iran for your lobotomy. I’ll pay for your care after you return.

          77. Morton99 says

            LOL! What planet are you on – it ain’t earth !!!!!

          78. mac12sam12 says

            I can call my doctor and get an appointment the next day. Try that in a country with socialized medicine. You’re lucky if you can get in within two months.

          79. Retired says

            You are wrong on that , it all depends on where you live . Dr. still think if you need care right away go to the ER . Most places Dr. sold their soul to hospitals for lower malpractice Ins. and then are controlled by the Hospital as to how many patients they must see .

          80. mac12sam12 says

            I live in NH and if I don’t feel well I can get an appointment the next day and never more than two days.

          81. Morton99 says

            Either your doctor is a personal friend or he is very short of patients.

          82. Joseph Carrilho says

            OR, you are ignorant as well as being a dummy.

          83. Morton99 says

            Well there is a third possibility – you pay him a great deal of money. If he has such an empty schedule that he can see you the next day – then he cannot be very busy.

          84. Morton99 says

            I live in NYC – NYS is a large state – I cannot speak for rural areas although I know it is a nation wide problem in rural areas.

          85. AKLady says

            Insult 8232.

          86. mac12sam12 says

            There’s no doctors short of patients.

          87. Morton99 says

            How convenient – your doctor fills his schedule up for the next day and no one ever has to wait ! LOL!

          88. mac12sam12 says

            He will squeeze i people and you have failed to defend socialized medicine. Every doctor I know is a republican.

          89. mac12sam12 says

            The reason they come here is because they don’t have to wait two months for an operation or doctor’s appointment. We have a doctor shortage but not as bad as countries with socialized medicine. Doctors don’t want to work for the government.

          90. Morton99 says

            Well where I live – NYC there is absolutely no shortage of doctors. Additionally if you have a real issue – they try and give you either a cancellation, or one of the spots they keep for this kind of thing. If you have a real problem after hours you can to one of more than 100 urgent care facilities – there are 3 within 5 minutes walk from me. If you don’t believe me then look online with one of the insurance companies for NYC and chose a plan and you will see hundreds of pages of doctors for every kind of ailment.

          91. Morton99 says

            I also had no problem when I lived in London for ten years. And – it was free although I was not British.

          92. mac12sam12 says

            That’s funny, free? It’s never “free.”

          93. Morton99 says

            Well I paid no taxes there and received no bill or request for payment for any medical treatment I received.

          94. mac12sam12 says

            It’s not free because someone else paid for it.

          95. Morton99 says

            Yes – the UK government pays for it. Some arrangement with the US government.

          96. susmart3 says

            Because America IS the land of opportunity- for those who can afford it. Foreigners who can afford it get private rooms, doctors, etc.

          97. mac12sam12 says

            It is the land of opportunity and in this country there’s no reason you should be living in poverty unless you are disabled.

          98. susmart3 says

            True, but… most of those living in poverty are *children.*

          99. Ron Dapo says

            Dedicated government agency? That is hilarious.
            It’s this simple,l work hard
            and l decide l want a buy a new car say a corvette. You don’t work, or can’t afford a corvette. Then instead of buying a VW you demand someone else to buy your corvette for you? Doesn’t that sound unreasonable to you….

          100. Morton99 says

            As far as I am concerned if you can’t afford a car then take the bus. But when it comes to my workers, I want them healthy because it affects my profits.

          101. Ron Dapo says

            Then you pay for YOUR WORKERS because it’s YOUR PROFITS not mine.
            We have finished discussing this matter. You must be a progressive…

          102. Morton99 says

            OK then for my finish as a proud progressive – I shall have the last word. You lose. The future of this nation is with the millennials – and they are overwhelming progressives.

          103. TexasCoyote1 says

            We can only hope the millennials discover that it was mommy and daddy’s money that had been paying for all their toys before they drive this country over the edge. I agree millennials have been brainwashed by our current educational system which values the group over the individual, but as millennials grow up and become responsible for families, they just may discover human nature doesn’t behave the way they have been told it does.

            My son is now 38, and he was a raving liberal until he had a daughter and tried to figure out how to make ends meet. He is now a conservative and wants government to take a much smaller bite out of his earnings. This will happen with the millennials who become responsible members of society as well. I realize fewer millennials value family than prior generations, but hopefully, there will be enough of them to right the ship.

          104. Morton99 says

            I think that these arguments based upon pseudo ideological labels will never be resolved because in fact they are somewhat fictional. There is a huge divide in this nation but it is based far more on urban versus rural politics than liberal versus conservative.

          105. TexasCoyote1 says

            There is some truth to your comment. Rural America is far more self-sufficient than urban America.

            However, I do believe if the mandates from the federal government were removed, each state (with the exception of California which is totally hopeless) would reduce its budget to reflect collections.

            Government programs foster weakness and retard self-reliance.

          106. kbmiller says

            My fear for the USA is that these millennials will not completely grow up and will have that, “Gummint dependency”, pounded into their skulls by the public school systems union teachers(Goose stepping propagandist brainwashers) which have rotted the brains of too many already.

          107. TexasCoyote1 says

            KB, we may not live to see it, but the millennials will understand what this communist ideology is all about when they run out of the money we war babies contribute to their lifestyles.

            If the current level of production we see in this age group holds true, too little income will be generated to produce the tax revenue to pay for what they feel entitled to.

            The pendulum will swing back, and it will swing back hard. Only the strong will even survive much less succeed. We could actually see this reset take place in the blink of an eye if Kim Jong Un launches a missile that creates an EMP. A world without electricity, clean water, functioning sewer system or food distribution system will solve this problem in a few weeks.

            My grandfather was a very poor sharecropper who could barely feed his children. Within two generations I am a college graduate who owned my own CPA practice for 45 years. The United States has always rewarded hard work, and it will again.

          108. Knowledge Transfer says

            Good. You sponsor it you pay for it!

          109. Morton99 says

            Certainly not – I want workers who always have free choice of where they will work -not indentured to me in return for keeping them alive with good healthcare. If the wages I pay are insufficient for them to live decently then that is the government’s responsibility, not mine. I will maximize my effort on profits – because if I do not, then my stockholders will fire me.

          110. Knowledge Transfer says

            The government has neither the right or the responsibility to force anyone to but anything especially when such coercion forces one part to pay for another. Your statement contradicts itself. “If the wages I pay are insufficient for them to live decently then that that is the government’s responsibility” is a Communist Manifesto inspired hallucination as it insanely trumpets the central theme and focal point of Cancerous Communism: “from each according to their means to each according to their needs”. Communism means that everyone gets the same exact things in the same exact amounts while no one [save for the elites] ever receives enough of anything. Rather than encouraging and expecting wealth and health redistribution, we should be encouraging and expecting that every individual seek and secure their own unique levels of self-sufficiency and independence thus constant and continuous improvement at geometric vs. arithmetic rates. Therein everybody wins.

          111. kbmiller says

            MORON, again, you prove yourself a hypocrite. The gummint describing what’s fair? You want capitalism when you can profit but demand socialism to maximize your profit. Go away you IDIOT.

          112. Morton99 says

            You really do expose your dimness when you start ranting, KB. Yes I am an ardent capitalist. It has made me quite rich by US standards. But I am not in the business of educating people or even their good health. That is a very necessary job for government to organize – it won’t happen by magic.

          113. kbmiller says

            Moron, you fell into your own trap, you JACKASS. You want others to pay the health care of your employees for your own gain. So you profit while others pay what you don’t have to. Wow, just how STUPID and hypocritical are you?

          114. Joseph Carrilho says

            T A K E R …………..

          115. Morton99 says

            Yup – I will take any worker who is good – and pay them a market salary.

          116. AKLady says

            Insult 8025

          117. kbmiller says

            Not to a dim witted DumbA$$ok RAT it doesn’t.

          118. Sammy says

            Oh Morton you are sadly delusional. There is no such thing as a dedicated, or efficient government agency, here or anywhere else in the world. Where you get your facts is highly suspect. The U.S. has the best healthcare in the world. Not perfect, but still the best.

          119. Morton99 says

            You are delusional. Not even Americans agree with you. What on earth do you think the issue of healthcare is all about ? How about the opioid problem where Big Pharma has been dumping cheap drugs in poverty stricken areas – and now a overdose death every 15 minutes.

          120. kbmiller says

            Moron, big Pharma gives to the DumbA$$ok RATS.

          121. mac12sam12 says

            You forgot to mention all the senators and congressmen that are owned by big pharma.

          122. Morton99 says

            No, I mentioned them – but there are at least 7 people responding to my posts so you may have missed it.

          123. RobertNorwood says

            Dumping cheap drugs??? Well, if they’re dumping drugs give’em my address!

          124. anibanib says

            The USA is not even in the top 16

            16. Canada — Canada’s 1984 Health Act entrenches in law the country’s system of free at the point of access healthcare, known as Medicare. Canada’s system is not perfect however, and in recent years the number of Canadians going south for private care in the USA has grown.
            15. Qatar — The best standards of health in the Middle East can be found in the wealthy nation of Qatar. The nation has recently taken steps to implement a universal healthcare system across the entire country.
            14. France — Famed for the quality of its health services, it is not surprising to see France close to the top of the pile. The country’s average life expectancy is 82.
            13. Norway — Norway, along with its Scandinavian counterparts, often comes close to global quality of life rankings, and one reason is the health of its citizens. The country’s healthcare system is free for children under 16, but adults must pay for services. The country spends more per person on healthcare than any other country on earth.

            (Getty)
            12. New Zealand — New Zealand is one of the most active countries in the world, with the nation punching well above its weight in international sporting competitions. It has an average life expectancy of 81.6 years.
            11. Belgium — With an average age of 81.1, Belgium’s life expectancy is just outside the world’s top 20. The country has universal healthcare, but also requires mandatory health insurance for all citizens.
            10. Germany — Despite a love of beer and sausages, Germans are some of the world’s healthiest people. The country’s average life expectancy is 81.
            9 health and wellness apps to download

            9. Israel — Israel is the highest ranked of any Middle Eastern state on the Legatum Institute’s health sub-index, and the country has the 8th highest life expectancy on the planet, 82.5 years.
            8. Australia — With great weather and low pollution, it is not surprising that Australia is ranked as the healthiest nation in the southern hemisphere. Its average life expectancy is 82.8, the 4th highest in the world.
            7. Hong Kong — The tiny city-state of Hong Kong has 11 private and 42 public hospitals to serve its population of just over 7.2 million people. In 2012, women in Hong Kong had the longest average life expectancy of any demographic on earth.
            6. Sweden — As with most quality of life and health rankings, northern European countries like Sweden score highly. Swedish men have the 4th highest life expectancy of any nation, living to an average of 80.7 years.
            5. Netherlands — In 2015 the Netherlands gained the number one spot at the top of the annual Euro health consumer index, which compares healthcare systems in Europe, scoring 916 of a maximum 1,000 points

            Amsterdam is a city of cyclists (Getty Images/iStockphoto)
            4. Japan — The country’s life expectancy — 83.7 — is the highest on the planet. That has caused demographic issues in the country, with its population ageing rapidly.
            3. Switzerland — Rich, beautiful, and incredibly healthy. Switzerland has pretty much all anyone could want from a country. Its healthcare service is universal and is based upon the mandatory holding of health insurance by all citizens.
            2. Singapore — Another small city-state to make the top of the Prosperity Index’s health sub-index. Singapore’s 5.6 million citizens have an average life expectancy of 83.1 years old.
            1. Luxembourg — Nestled between Belgium, France, and Germany, the wealthy nation of Luxembourg tops the Legatum Institute’s health sub-index. The country’s average life expectancy is 82.

          125. Jeanne Knudsen says

            you are so incorrect in your info…..Germany, as I know, my uncle is a Dr, so is his wife. They both must work in order to survive They get paid equal to one dollar for each patient they see, they work 6 days a week each from nearly dawn to late night. yes healthcare is free to its citizens, but Drs don’t make diddly

          126. anibanib says

            It was not my info, it was ONE of at least a dozen websites that say the same thing, the USA is not in the top 16……….then you say German doctors dont make diddly, it is possible when one compares doctors in Europe and the USA, many US doctors especially specialists can make up to and more than $300 thousand a year, not sure what a “”normal”” doctor in the USA is earning, but in Sweden a standard GP, earns about 72000 swedish kr a month, thats about $8800 a month, perhaps that is also diddly

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/16-countries-best-healthcare-world-a7976626.html

          127. Jeanne Knudsen says

            ah so, that (being so low on the ‘scale) must be why people from all over the world come to the US for operations etc. yeah, cause the US is so low, U R an idiot

          128. anibanib says

            That is somewhat true, that many people do go to the USA for special operations………..and who are these people……..the majority are people with lots of money to pay for the plane orboat fare and then have to live in some hotel waiting for their operation………….a operation in the USA is extremely expensive, cos manily of thefine hospitals are privately owned and the staff get high salaries, some of the doctors have salaries of over $400 thousand dollars a year, so it is the rich influential people who come to the USA for operations not the 60 million in Africa that are dying…………so how are you doing now you stupid idiot

          129. Knowledge Transfer says

            Your fulminations remind me of the quotation: “Two men looked from prison bars – one saw mud the other saw stars.” You must have missed the central theme and focal point of this post in that the largest socialized so called health care system in the world can’t afford what it claims to support. This cratering is just the beginning as history has so often proven. When one party [the takers] take too much, [the givers] will stop giving. Like James Madison, the father and the architect of the US Constitution so clearly stated: “Charity is no part of the duties of the federal government.”

          130. Morton99 says

            You are looking in the wrong place. It is not the people who are ripping off healthcare – it is the service operators.

          131. Knowledge Transfer says

            All orchestrated by big government. Why did you miss or refuse to address the point that was made?

          132. Morton99 says

            No you put the boot on the wring foot. They have cowed the government – they dictate to it. They fund the elections and in return they amass huge profits and are even responsible for the current opioid crisis.

          133. Knowledge Transfer says

            What is a “wring foot”? You must have a degree from the Arthur Murray School of Dance! Why do you “dance” around the question asked?

          134. Morton99 says

            sorry – typo.

          135. kbmiller says

            Moron, put a cabal of pencil pushing gummint bureaucrasy employees with no accountability on line and see how efficient THAT is. When EVERY employee is “FULLY” accountable for their own position, then a system can function at it’s highest capability. The Socialist system that you DumbA$$ok RATS have been striving to change the USA into is incapable of this.

          136. Morton99 says

            Better management would help – but the government is not interested in making the civil service more efficient – at least the nasty gridlocked system that we currently have – the current government wants to shrink it and then hand its function out to its friends for their profit making endeavors. Like private prison systems – a total disaster – where the government is left with the most expensive prisoners AND also has to pay a profit premium to the private contractors. It also started to rope in judges who were getting paybacks for helping to fill them.

          137. kbmiller says

            Moron, ever hear of Solyndra, Energy 1 (not sure of the exact name) other green energy cos. that went bankrupt ASAP? What about OHOMOcare health care program computer set up? Who got that $? friends of OHOMO, campaign contributors? At least the prison systems result in a service provided. It’s mostly DumbA$$ok RATS housed in the prisons anyway. Doesn’t that make you happy that your voting base is so well provided for?

          138. Morton99 says

            If you are going to quote renewable energy investments there is little point in cherry picking. Solyndra was a teething problem and since then that sector has become the goldmine that was promised – AND – the government seed money in that sector has actually returned huge gains in both repayment and massive new sources of tax revenue that did not previously exist. There are now three million jobs in renewable energy – and that is a huge payoff – they did not exist 10 years ago.

          139. kbmiller says

            MORON, “Dedicated government agency”? HA HA HA HA Keep proving yourself a FOOL. It’s amusing but PATHETIC. You JACKASS.

          140. Morton99 says

            Do you collect, or expect to collect social security ?

          141. RobertNorwood says

            kbmiller is a flaming retard, what exactly do you hope to impress upon him?

          142. Morton99 says

            I don’t – he is one of the rudest and most ignorant on this site. I bait him.

          143. RobertNorwood says

            Were you looking in the mirror when you went off? Actually you go off with every response – pathetic moron fool… and the “HA HA HA” isn’t there a child’s site somewhere you can do that on?

          144. kbmiller says

            BOOBY, awwww touched a nerve, did I? Another butt hurt social justice DumbA$$ok RAT? Defending the leftist JACKASSES on here is a FOOL’S errand, Booby. Just the right job for you. You F’n FOOL.

          145. RobertNorwood says

            Great comeback – for a pathetic moronic fool.

          146. kbmiller says

            Boob, that’s all you got? Go back under your rock,simpleton.

          147. RobertNorwood says

            Got plenty but why waste it on a ranting monkey.

        2. Pam says

          No one was dying in the streets before Obamacare either! These people act like we’re trying to derail a system that’s been in place for decades. DRs started retiring as soon as Obamacare was instituted and the independent businesses had to start selling their practices to Hugh corporation to follow the guide lines. We already have a shortage of DRs now . So enter the nurse practitioner who haven’t a clue what their doing past the bandaids.

          1. susmart3 says

            And “Obamacare” is really “Romneycare” anyway…

        3. SD of AZ says

          And the crisis noted in this article underscores your point about socialism and the baseline against it is called Work Ethic. Work and earn your money, buy what you need with your earnings. Stop the welfare and entitlement train dead on the track. The country will not have people dying in the streets. The systems in place will help the truly needy but the freeloaders will have to qualify for help. Imagine a reality check for those who can and should be working, not just sitting home making babies and loafing. And in their loafing having the time to make trouble. Keep em too busy earning a living to have time to make trouble. Or if they prefer trouble, let’s introduce TENT CITY as in Sheriff Joe’s social experiment that actually worked. Crime was down til Bozo and his DOJ decided to take the sheriff down with our money funding it. It was a crime that Bozo and the left got away with. Reinstate the Tent City punishment! Then let those who want trouble get a dose of justice and punishment!

          1. Ron Dapo says

            I could not agree with you more SD of AZ. Mr.Joe is
            What law enforcement should be…

          2. Topher Smith says

            Stats to prove what you claim?

      2. Knowledge Transfer says

        This country was founded on the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE from coercive big government – the British Empire not the DECLARATION OF DEPENDENCE on coercive big government – Washington, DC. Every individual being governed in such a foundation of independence has the irrefutable right and the immutable responsibility to become economically self-sufficient and independent so that they NEVER become a drag or a drain on their fellow citizens. Those who truly can’t help themselves should be helped. Yet such help should never be the right or the responsibility of government because cancerous government growth is predicated on creating more dependents. Such help should always emanate from those closet to those who truly can’t help themselves – numbers so incredibly small that families; neighborhoods etc. at the local level could more easily and justly provide. Those who truly can help themselves but choose not to shouldn’t be helped. They should never be permitted to use their refusals to contribute as a crutch to secure FREE at the expense of those who accept responsibility.

        1. Morton99 says

          I think you were born about two centuries too late.

        2. kbmiller says

          You are soooooo right. Moron 99 and anibanib will never have the mental ability to understand that. I think there was a Socialist seed implanted during their lobotomies.

          1. Knowledge Transfer says

            Myrmidons rely on unproven feelings vs. proven facts. They are losers who are afraid to win and rather than winning want to drag the winners down to their ever lowering levels of failure so that they don’t feel so bad about themselves. Classic misery love company. Those whom earn “A’s” must give up 2 grades and accept “C’s” so that those who fail and earn “F’s” end up with 2 unearned grades and receive “C’s” so that everyone can then be equal. In sports this would result in tie games for all games and equal wins and loses for all teams.

      3. Knowledge Transfer says

        Vladimir Lenin, the father of the bloody Communist Takeover of Russia knew that: “Socialized medicine is the keystone in the arch of the socialized state”. You reveal yourself as someone who doesn’t belong in a country founded on INDEPENDENCE.

        1. anibanib says

          So many of you guys use the term…SOCIALISED healthcare……..so what is socialistic about it…………

          1. Knowledge Transfer says

            It means lowering expectations and creating a ceaseless and ever growing dependent class who then feed off of the productive until the productive either stop producing or civil war results.

          2. anibanib says

            If that is what you think it is, then perhaps you should change you NICKNAME to Bullc hit Transfer………..the USA with less than 5% of the worlds population are perhaps unique NOT having a universal healthcare service,where all citizens are treated equal, from the day they are born until the lid is nailed onto the box………….works well across the rest of the western world…..whereas the USA has 10s of millions without any health care, and 10sof millions live in dire poverty in the USA…….poverty is rampant

            People living in poverty…………….42 300 000
            People receiving food stamps……41 000 000
            People with no Insurance………….31 000 000
            People on medicaid………………….74 000 000
            Total number on benefits………….164 000 000

          3. Knowledge Transfer says

            Poverty is a choice not a condition. The numbers that you quote are simply a product of pampering and pacifying those who refuse to commit to their rights and responsibilities to seek and secure economic self sufficiency.

          4. anibanib says

            Pampering and pacifying………..that is half the frigging population of the USA

            People living in poverty…………….42 300 000
            People receiving food stamps……41 000 000
            People with no Insurance………….31 000 000
            People on medicaid………………….74 000 000
            Total number on benefits………….164 000 000

            164 million American citizens receiving benefits

            that is half the frigging population of the USA

          5. Knowledge Transfer says

            Exactly as planned by the sovereign saboteurs. Purposely crater the system from within like purposely introducing cancer cells into healthy bodies. One- half of the taxpayers in this already ruined country pay all the federal taxes while the other half pays no federal tax despite the fact that the free loading half secures rebates on taxes they never paid. Talk about wealth redistribution. What a moronic; malevolent and Marxist cesspool! And those who feed at the federal trough without contributing to it receive the same protection as do those who pay all the costs. THIS CLASSIC COMMUNISM FROM EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR MEANS TO EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR NEEDS thus perpetuating the ever growing number of leeches. It is also an asinine and an insane repeat of TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION which was the principle cause for the revolutionary war with Great Britain. What we have now is worse than it was in 1776. We have 50% of Americans who are OVER-TAXED AND UNDER-REPRESENTED while the other half is UNDER-TAXED AND OVER-REPRESENTED. If you had a company with 50 customers and one-half paid on time, complete and in full while the other half paid nothing thus receiving free goods all at the expense of the 50 customers who paid on time, complete and in full, how long would you keep the 50 customers who paid on time, complete and in full?

          6. Joseph Carrilho says

            The socialist system encourages mediocrity.
            My conclusion to your excellent post.

          7. AKLady says

            Insult 8026

          8. anibanib says

            Well, you have the system that is designed for the ultra rich, regardless of who is in power, and even if Bernie ever got that power, things wouldnt change one bit.

            So how many taxes do you normal wage earners pay…….I believe….only believe……….. they are Federal taxes, state taxes, county taxes, city taxes, property taxes……..they are the ones you must pay……….have I left any out, then there are highway taxes to drive on certain highwaysand of course sales taxes that every body must pay on things that they buy

          9. Knowledge Transfer says

            The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution which is identical to the second plank of the Communist Manifesto, [a heavy progressive income tax] was passed during the administration of Woodrow Wilson together with two additional planks of the Communist Manifesto creating the Federal Reserve and taxing inheritance which are also planks within the Communist Manifesto. Progressive means taxing higher income at higher tax rates so that everyone, no matter their abilities as measured by contributions and merit, end up with the same ultimate income – save of course for the elites – whose power allows them to concoct complex laws that in turn allow them to hide from the burdens on the common citizen. The Federal Reserve holds no reserves. So, why is it called the Federal Reserve? Its actual role is to debase the currency; inflate prices and amass cratering debt. Taxing some one’s inheritance is evil because it uses envy to seed discord. By the way the inheritance tax [better known as the death tax] was passed under the premise that it was to be only a temporary tax to help fund the WWI. As an advocate of Leninism, Wilson was merely saluting the most important precept preached and by practiced by Marxist Leninism “THE LIE IS SACRED.”

          10. mrpoohead says

            Including Medicaid seems somewhat foolish – all Europeans qualify for the equivalent – free-ish healthcare, poverty or no poverty. Insurance not required as paid for through taxes. And it’s 45 million in poverty, USA. Or, more simply Sweden has a rate of 7% in poverty, the US doubles that figure. Bigger and better! Ha!

          11. anibanib says

            You state numbers a figures without a reference source, so here are mine……….. One percent of Swedes live in material poverty, according to a new annual Eurostat”>Eurostat review that lists Sweden as having the lowest poverty level in the EU.
            In Sweden and in the EU at large, it is the unemployed who are most at risk of living in what Eurostat dubs “serious material poverty”. A person is considered poor if he or she does not satisfy four out of nine criteria, which include:

            Not being able to cover an unforeseen expense, not being able to afford to eat meat, poultry or fish more than every other day. It also covers heating your home, having access to one week paid holiday a year, owning capital goods such as a washing machine or a car.

            Sweden and Luxembourg have the EU’s lowest proportion of citizens or residents living below the material poverty line – both at about 1 percent.

            The EU average was 9 percent.

            Bulgarians fare the worst, as 44 percent of its population are considered materially poor. Almost one in three Lithuanians also don’t satisfy four of the nine material criteria outlined by Eurostat

          12. mrpoohead says

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_Sweden

            Eurostat actually puts the figure much higher – suggest you check there before making comment. The Local is garbage.

          13. anibanib says

            The LOCAL.se is quoting a EUROSTAT source

          14. mrpoohead says

            Not very well and in a cherry-picking way.

          15. anibanib says

            That is the way websites across the world grab ones attention…………and US websites are masters at that game

          16. mrpoohead says

            Think I’m yet to come across a 100% truth on these Alt-right sites. Mostly they just make it up – please do not join them. You are providing a valuable service – pointing out what a dump America is!

          17. mrpoohead says

            America rocks at poverty – biggest toilet in the modern world. Worst social disparity, mobility, healthcare and education systems. Do have an enviable homicide rate – five to ten times that of rest of the West. We rock at poverty and murder.

            Think you’ll find poverty is a condition mostly created by the Financial Crisis 2008 or more specifically idiotic policies and crazed bankers. Suggest you get out more.

          18. Knowledge Transfer says

            You are historically deprived as to this rot commencing in 2008. It started in 1869-1879 with the Communist Manifesto. All 10 of its planks are now part and parcel of the American body politic designed to implode and the USA thus making easy the creation of one size fits all one world government where inch by inch enslavement will be a cinch.

          19. mrpoohead says

            Communism is an ideology, it has not been elected into a majority but has been used as an excuse for dictatorships.

            Are you scared of your own shadow, why be scared of communism – it ain’t happened. Many of their points are quite salient none are imposed as an extreme in democratically elected governments.

            World government – yes, it’ll happen one day. It’s called progress. Has government stopped creativity? Well suspect a world government will be okay. Not sure why you think it will lead to enslavement – are Californians different to Texans?

            You obviously come from a long line of worry warts I suggest you leave the basement and live a little. The world ain’t that scary.

            Technically the Financial Crisis 2008 wouldn’t have happened in a communist country – regulation, ain’t that bad. In reality it only happened in the US, we just managed to off-sell dodgy investments as AAA+ ones around the world and thus spread the problem – that’s what you get in a plutocracy. Thankfully the EU and China took the moral high ground as they could have sued and broke the banks and the country. On the bright side we are now a bit part and nowhere near as influential. After all we managed to completely FU the 20th Century.

            Now go outside and embrace the world. It’s a wonderful place.

          20. Knowledge Transfer says

            What you know about what you think you know could fit into the head of a pin with enough room left over for each of the 7 billion + world wide inhabitants each to own and occupy 100 centillion 850 quadrillion square mile farms.
            All Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto are now part and parcel of the American body politic inside the USA thus reflecting the dry rot which has been premeditated and then permitted by dolt ridden dragoons like you. Nikita Khruschev, the General Secretary of the Soviet Union and its God of Communism had you in mind when he said: “We can’t expect the American people to jump from capitalism to communism but we can give them small doses of socialism until one day they wake up in Communism.” Inch by inch with the help of the dolt ridden enslavement is a cinch. Nikita’s demonic predecessor. Joseph Stalin said it well: “America is like a healthy body. Its strengths are three fold: Its patriotism. Its spirituality. And its morality. If we can undermine these three areas America will collapse from within.” This is exactly what has happened with the monumental help of those who put their helmets on back ward on purpose. His predecessor Vladimir Lenin knew: “the purpose of socialism is communism.” You and your worthless ilk are inept and a mortal danger to the general welfare. Your powers of discernment are either non-existent or they have atrophied into delusional incoherence. Anyone who can read write and think and has basic understandings of history can see that. You and your envy driven misery loves company acolytes gladly wallow in and then suffer from historical deprivation; intellectual insolvency; and academic anemia all soothed by being impervious to reason; lacking in functioning consciences; and being invulnerable to regret. When this grand experiment falls – and fall it will – we will build it right the second time by keeping negative infectious agitators and losers out because they refuse to win.

          21. mrpoohead says

            Soviet Union is no more – no real communists left.
            Despite Lenin’s missive they’ve had socialist parties in W Europe for 100+ years – not descended into communism. They do however bring balance to society; thus they have considerably better social disparity and mobility, healthcare and education. They’re not $20 trillion in debt either.
            Please leave the basement and embrace life – you sad little man.

          22. Knowledge Transfer says

            Godless; soulless; life hating; family destroying; baby butchering; sodomy saluting; wealth redistributing madness doesn’t bring balance to society. Communism is stronger today than it ever was because it pretends to be something other than what it is. The best hunters don’t want to their prey to think they exist. Now go back and play in your insane asylum.

          23. mrpoohead says

            Amusing and ignorant – communism has been the excuse of dictators so hardly in true form. Ever!
            Obviously you are condoning the American Way – whereas W Europe, Canada, NZ and Australia have centre-left and centre-right parties. Balance. We meanwhile have a homicide rate five to ten times their’s, average a mass shooting per day – UK one in ten years, Australia one in twenty and Switzerland two in the lifetime of the gun. We embrace much higher poverty levels than most, the worst social disparity and mobility, healthcare and education systems. We’re rockin’!? Hardly.
            America – the toilet of the modern world.

          24. Knowledge Transfer says

            You are to validity what anorexia is to dieting. All the destruction within this country is premeditated and orchestrated by the myrmidons you exalt and salute which is exactly what happened to the Soviet Union and the health care system in England. Your blindness is a wonderment.

          25. mrpoohead says

            Myrmidons blindly follow – hardly orchestrating. Duh!
            Soviet Union had reforms, this led to democracy and independence. They moved on. Duh!
            National Health Service (UK) is ranked 18th in the world, US’s is close to 40th.

            Suggest you don’t use words you don’t understand and do considerably more research before making dumb comments.

          26. Knowledge Transfer says

            You need a brain transplant.

          27. mrpoohead says

            At least I have one – you obviously do not.

          28. Knowledge Transfer says

            You Marxist mind in like cement…all mixed up and permanently set.

          29. mrpoohead says

            Marxist? I’m in business, I own a few million in property, I pay taxes in more than one country – did you want to try that again! You are an ignoramus – an’ I’m being polite!

          30. Knowledge Transfer says

            Sure you are!

          31. mrpoohead says

            Currently I’m putting off two tax returns – not overly driven to fill them in. Bought a number of properties over the years – never sold.

          32. Knowledge Transfer says

            And??? Again, why is it that you “up vote” your own statements.

          33. Knowledge Transfer says

            And???

          34. Knowledge Transfer says

            Why is it that you “up vote” yourself on what you spew?

          35. mrpoohead says

            Amuses me and confounds the retards – that’ll be you.

          36. Knowledge Transfer says

            You must stop looking in your malevolent mirror as you rifle off your imbecilic fire, ready, aim; shoot from the hip: knee jerk reactive hallucinogenic Marxist rants.

          37. Knowledge Transfer says

            This is like cheating when you take a test.

          38. mrpoohead says

            True, I know you’re an idiot so I’m walking all over you.

          39. Knowledge Transfer says

            You are soo low that you could slither under the belly of a serpent while wearing a top hat.

          40. mrpoohead says

            Then you are obviously below terrafirma – explains a lot.

          41. Knowledge Transfer says

            Slither!

          42. mrpoohead says

            Where’d it go? “And??? Again, why is it that you “up vote” your own statements.”

            Again; because it amuses me and confounds the retards. That’s still you!

          43. Knowledge Transfer says

            Slither!

          44. mac12sam12 says

            That was under democrat/left wing control. BTW, how’s your muslim population doing, Euro Trash?

          45. Morton99 says

            You are protecting yourself by subsidizing (as you put it) healthcare. There would be no need for subsidies if healthcare were actually affordable. Do you really want to wear a hazmat suit to protect against contracting diseases from people who cannot afford healthcare ?

          46. Knowledge Transfer says

            What ever we subsidize we get more of. Thus bankrupting big; bigger; biggest government. Inch by inch enslavement becomes a cinch. The self sufficient and independent don’t need subsidies. If all men are created equal, all men can seek and secure economic self sufficiency and independence without the selfish and self consumed need to leech off of their fellow man. If some want more, they should simply become more like all of those who have done likewise.

          47. Morton99 says

            All men are created ‘equal’ under the law. They are not equally as devious as you, for example. So the weaker are protected just as Jesus Christ preached.

          48. Knowledge Transfer says

            Like a muddle headed Marxist myrmidon, you fail to understand that when charity is coerced it stops being charity and becomes coercive theft. Coercive charity violates two of God’s Commandments [not merely recommendations]: “thou shalt not steal”: and thou shalt not covet they neighbors goods.” Jesus said: ” if you love me, keep my commandments”; and “I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.” Charity can only mean leading or driving the poor out of and away from poverty not making then easy and comfortable in poverty. That isn’t love. Those who refuse to the help to become economically self-sufficient and independent – especially if “all men are created equal ” are thieves and those who pamper them are criminals.

          49. Morton99 says

            Charity of the type that fixes deficiencies in government is another name for tax deductions. Real charity comes from your pocket and your time – not a smart accountant.

          50. Knowledge Transfer says

            What a convoluted response!! You are impervious to reason. You not only conflate and misstate what was said you then wallow in the imbecilic by conflating and misstating what wasn’t said. You endanger the general welfare.

          51. Morton99 says

            Oh really. I did not realize that you were handicapped. Let me rephrase. The sort of charity that right wingers propose – is deducted with Schedule A form 8283.. They are designed to be used to avoid income taxes and from a moral point of view have very little to do with what ordinary people think of as charity.

          52. Knowledge Transfer says

            Your statement is to the subject at hand what anorexia is to dieting.

          53. Joseph Carrilho says

            That Moron99 seems to be fairly clever – too bad Moron99 is so dumb.

          54. AKLady says

            Insult 8027

          55. Joseph Carrilho says

            I coins the word “deceivious” for those like you, Moron99.

          56. Morton99 says

            And I could use the word ignoramus for you – but I didn’t invent it.

          57. AKLady says

            Insult 8028

          58. Libs R Loons says

            Seriously, you’re wasting your time on the paid Sorosbot “Morton99”.
            Just block him and his incessantly communist comments.

          59. Knowledge Transfer says

            It’s fun to spare with the myrmidons.

          60. kbmiller says

            You just exposed your ignorance and stupidity.

          61. anibanib says

            Why because I query stupid Yanks calling European Healthcare systems as socialistic……….you Yanks call everything socialistic when it differs from your brainwashed repugnant minds

          62. Joseph Carrilho says

            Swedes love their RAPEfugies, go figure………

          63. anibanib says

            OK, so what is SOCIALISED healthcare

          64. Ann Davis says

            Is that a REAL QUESTION? Don’t you have a computer or access to the Internet? RESEARCH IT FOR YOURSELF AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT CHECK OUT THE COMMUNIST BELIEFS. AND STUDY THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND THE GRECIAN EMPIRE. If you will research these topics with an open mind, perhaps you can help save this Precious Country.

          65. anibanib says

            Just what are you babbling about………..AND STUDY THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND THE GRECIAN EMPIRE……….what do they have to do with the comical reactions of Americans and their hate shown towards communism and socialism

      4. LIVE FREE OR DIE says

        The reason you need insurance is because the one thing that IS guaranteed is that your health care here will cost you far more than any place else in the world, and far more than our standard of care would justify. This is the only country on earth where illness is a cause of bankruptcy (as a matter of fact, it;s one of the most common causes thereof) and that’s a page right out of Alinzky’s playbook. Not only that, when you get sick in America, you have the right to subsidize the rest of the damn world’s illnesses. We give away FREE (hello, Mr. Sanders??) AIDS and Hepatitis meds to the rest of the world, but here, you pay through the proverbial nose. And that malignant clown Brown has just basically legalized knowingly exposing anyone to HIV. I hope he ends up raped by Scott Wiener.

      5. kbmiller says

        “Probably”, “Will be”, “If”, “Would be”. Your IDIOTIC opinions rise from an ash heap that is your brain. Leave the, “T” out of your name. It would be more accurate, you F’n JACKASS. Soon you’ll be demanding others pay for your panties, bras and tampons, cars, roller skates, spa day to get your hair and nails done, high heeled shoes and sex reassignment surgery. You FOOLS on the LEFT can’t stop until you have working people paying for all you whims and needs. Grow up JERK OFF. Remember, loose the,”T”.

        1. Libs R Loons says

          “Morton99” is a Soros-paid troll to be BLOCKED.

          1. kbmiller says

            I believe that. Brainwashed by the idiotic leftists running our public schools and colleges for decades.

      6. Ann Davis says

        IDIOT!! The only people “gaming the system” are people like you, unwed parents, baby daddies in prison for criminal activities and lest we forget, Mr Bill (oversexed WH occupier) passed the bill the sent thousands upon thousands of Black Men to prison for being sent away for “LIFE” because of the “three strikes you’re out” law (lobbied by Miss Hillary) helping it pass both Houses so Mr Bill could sign into law. Also please research Miss Hillary regarding her “love and admiration” for Margaret Sanger the bitch who founded planned parenthood for the SOLE PURPOSE OF GENOCIDE OF THE NEGRO RACE. And, guess what, she is succeeding according to the statistics published by the federal government. Check it out all a matter of record.

        1. Joey says

          Anne Davis, you speak the truth!!!

      7. Joey says

        So what are you saying, that the government should determine what everybody’s fair share is? You need to do some research on the healthcare system in the UK. People are dying on the streets or at the very least in the hospital parking lots while waiting in line in ambulances. Also I believe that every liberal idiot in this country is determined to lower the size of the population in this country, and what better way to do it than to have socialized medicine where the over bloated government sets and calls all the shots.

        1. Morton99 says

          You would feel far less stressed if you stopped reading such ridiculous propaganda! Dying in the streets ! LOL. Every health organization puts the healthcare in the UK far above what we get here – AND its far less costly.

          1. Joey says

            Actually i’m Not stressed at all. I have the best insurance and physical healer available to mankind. “God!”
            I’m also sure that what you say about the healthcare in the U.K. is the epitome of socialist propaganda.
            Those that are willing to take such things as the reality without doing their own investigation is the sign of ignorance and laziness.
            I don’t mess with propaganda, I research and find the actual facts.

          2. Morton99 says

            Well my friend, I lived there for ten years, had free access to their healthcare system and have nothing but praise for it. So those are real facts not some crap you read from a right wing politician who is taking money from the healthcare lobbies.

          3. Joey says

            Well how great for you that the entire population payed taxes so you could have some cheap healthcare. I have a very good friend that was born and raised there. What he could share with you would prove you very wrong. Sorry no cigar for you!

    2. tCotUS says

      Because everything in America is FREE(but not 4 U) …..That’s Why !! . Ha,Ha stupid America, you’re paying everything for the illegals, the refugees, & the Phat azz lazy worthless DumboRats & Rino’s sitting in DC. ………….*just a little Sarc***

      1. Ron Dapo says

        You are correct..

      2. Ron C says

        Sarcasm?…but its true.

        1. tCotUS says

          I know…It sucks doesn’t it….

        2. AKLady says

          Totally false ….

      3. ernldo says

        It can’t go on forever, and many you mentioned have planned for NOTHING. It might be quite a culling….

        1. tCotUS says

          Yep, the roller coaster ride is just around the corner. Fasten your seat belt folks.

    3. Kenneth Blum says

      What happened to buying your own. Obama is what happened to it.

      1. Ron Dapo says

        You are correct Ken. The most corrupt, untruthful,( wish he could be king) socialist president I’ve seen in my lifetime,and l remember Dwight Eisenhower, so I’ve seen a few.

        1. Richard Start says

          Sad choice of words KB since I’ve listened to popular white Country singers make music off of that system “I’m waiting in your welfare line.” and Elvis in “Follow That Dream” Where his dad is the leader of a welfare family. I can go on but I’ll stop before this becomes as ridiculous as your suggesting one group of people sucks up on this program. The most destructive part of racism is the ignorance it creates among people opening up division and tearing this country apart. If your part of the Obama legacy which is to divide this nation, good job. But if you want to fight back then stop finding ways to divide our nation and bring us back together. Which side are you on?

          1. SD of AZ says

            Richard, I disagree. Not a darn thing wrong with Ron’s post or KB’s. Bozo was the worst president in history and I too remember Ike. So? Guess you think most people are welfare for lifers? That is an assumption on your part and it does make you look like what an assumption creates if it is NOT based in facts. There is however a class of welfare for lifers that still want everything for free. I believe those were who KB and Ron were noting. And quite frankly they were and are only useful tools for the NWO who are trying to break the middle class and the bank with all the freeloaders piling on. Shall we guess that it is the race who always plays the race card and cries the blues at every opportunity. Bozo used them and incited them quite successfully and Richard you must be a dem wit if you chose to ignore the truths that are so clearly visible about the socialism this bunch advocates for. And the truth about socialism in any form. England right now is exposing that truth about socialist healthcare.

            And you might want to examine another philosophy called the work ethic.There is no such thing as a free ride. For anyone who denies it the inevitability of the end is always a collapse of whatever society that has tried that much giving! Recent history of Russia, China, now Argentina, and Valenzuela are confirmation of that fact. Soon it will be EU, Canada, and UK, etc.. Please allow me to say I sincerely hope the US will never ever make that list as well.

          2. Grady Poteat says

            Don’t forget that the one class you talk about have been expecting the government to support and feed them since 1865 when they were freed and promised “a mule and 40 acres”.

          3. SD of AZ says

            Thanks Grady, I assumed that was just the starting point for the work ethics that the dem wits blew apart with all the bailouts on the dem wit agenda for votes from the freeloaders who want the free ride to never end. Geez, what was I thinking?

          4. Retired says

            Why do you think Obama and his tribe Made sure Gov. Union workers got more money than the people on SS ??? You know 1 senior moment a day is allowed .

          5. boone1 says

            Richard Start is a liberal and voted for the muslim and killary. Pay him no mind.

          6. Retired says

            Nothing wrong with what you wrote , but we are well on the way of repeating history if congress does not change its way . Reading a article last week that in 8 years China will be ahead of us in military advancement and Russia is right behind them . The Satalite pictures do not Lie as to the Build up of the 2 countries , remember they can observe you in your Back Yard .

          7. Sharon Windus says

            Can Thank obama for that too as he was intent on downgrading our Military as well as not giving them the equipment they needed. It’s going to be a struggle to get back to where we should be to properly keep the beasts at bay. Thank Goodness we didn’t get stuck with another like him.

          8. Richard Start says

            Nice attempt to avoid admitting your use of the “nigger” making this a black issue when many are involved! That was my point. Any low life regardless of race can abuse the system and take what was intended as a safety net to create a hammock! It is the abuse of the system which sucks up resources so they may not be available when those who justifiably need them arises which is wrong! Tagging this to one race drives another wedge between us as American’s …. Do you get it now? Adding the requirement to work was one of the best additions to our welfare program ever. This requires more involvement from counselors better chances to catch fraud and gamer’s of the system. Not perfect but a move in the right direction. I know some people have no work ethic and must be motivated! I heard this idea once and it will boil your blood!
            If I can make X per week not working and only X per work at some job then I’m being cheated by the difference so until they pay up what I’m losing by giving up in welfare I ain’t taking the job! It is enough to make you want to dump the whole thing but some people do need help for real. The work requirement is the best answer short of watching indegent people starve on the street.

        2. AKLady says

          “Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.” President Dwight Eisenhower, Republican, November 8, 1954.

          1. Retired says

            Why do you spread so many Lies ??? There are many rich Millionaires in the Democrat Party so why do you Lie about that . There are Democrats in the Business world so why do you lie about that ???

          2. House Mouse says

            Why don’t you argue with Pres. D. Eisenhower? They are not lies. All Dem/liberals are despicable.

          3. Retired says

            What was most memorable at Ikes time how much he played golf .

          4. AKLady says

            Eisenhower balanced the budget, not just once, but three times. He ended the Korean War. Eisenhower was confronted with major Cold War crises every year he was in office: Korea, Vietnam, Formosa, Suez, Hungary, Berlin, and the U-2. Eisenhower always kept a level head. He dealt calmly and rationally with each situation, always finding a solution that avoided war without diminishing America’s prestige.

          5. Retired says

            Korea was never settled ,both sides agreed to a truce and the DMZ zone was created and the families separated .Eisenhower was so great that he helped establish the Iron curtain . He allowed Eastern Europe to be caged in for 50 years like animals . Did you forget all the people that were murdered trying to leave . IKE was a big wimp living off of his Military like McCain .

          6. AKLady says

            Blah, blah, blah, lie, insult, assume, exaggerate …repeat ad nauseam.
            Tedious, boring, repetitive …enfant terrible

          7. DUTCHIET says

            Are you say that the GOP Millionaires are the POOR Millionaires or all all millionaires rich?

          8. Lizfan says

            There are more rich democrats than there are rich Republicans, & the richest democrat is richer than the richest Republican. Feel free to look it up if you don’t believe me.

          9. Grady Poteat says

            The richest people in the world are all demo rats. Gates, Buffett, Zuckenberg, Bezzos, Bloomingberg, Soros, Winphery, the Hollywood elite, most so called sports stars, most modern musicians, the richest members of both houses of congress, and the list goes on and on and on.

          10. AKLady says

            These Republicans prove your claim false: Koch, Romney, Stryker, Dayton, du Pont, Briscoe, Walton, Ziff, Mars, Hearst … Of the 50 richest families, 28 mainly donate to Republicans and only seven contribute mainly to Democrats.

          11. Grady Poteat says

            No they don’t. According to an article I read in the Billing Gazette a short time ago, there are 8 people in the world who control more wealth than 3.6 Billion people who make up over half the world population. Six of those are in the USA. Those six are Gates, Buffett, Zuckenberg, Bloomingberg, Bezzos, and the man who runs either Oracle or Amazon. They are all demo rats. The other two are Carlos Slim of Mexico and a business man in Spain.

          12. Retired says

            AK can NOT comprehend those facts .

          13. boone1 says

            Most black’s can’t comprehend anything and aklady is black so you do the math.

          14. Retired says

            Muslim on top of it all !!!!

          15. boone1 says

            Damn forgot the sorry ass muslims

          16. Retired says

            We will forgive you this time !!!

          17. boone1 says

            Ok just this once.

          18. DUTCHIET says

            Hey bigot what do balck have to do with this?

          19. boone1 says

            Hey shit for brains learn how too spell liberal POS you be.

          20. DUTCHIET says

            It is interesting the way you use the English language. It really is because the way you express yourself would lead someone to think you are stupid.
            And why such a hostel reply to a simple question? A question still unanswered.

          21. Mary Brumley says

            DUTCHIET, do you even know what a “hostel” really is? Learn to use a dictionary!

          22. DUTCHIET says

            noun hostel plural noun hostels
            an establishment that provides inexpensive food and lodging for a specific group of people, such as students, workers, or travelers.

          23. Mary Brumley says

            Right. And “hostel” cannot be substituted for the word “hostile.”

          24. DUTCHIET says

            I the stupid one?
            noun hostel plural noun hostels

            an establishment that provides inexpensive food and lodging for a specific group of people, such as students, workers, or travelers.

          25. DUTCHIET says

            So you are happy that so few are so rich, no so wealthy?

          26. Grady Poteat says

            No I am not. It is just that for years I have heard the liberals all whining about the Rich Republicans when the most of the rich are demo rats and the liberals will not admit it. All they can do is lie and try to make everyone think they are the poor and downtrodden when actually they are the ones with most of the money and clout.

          27. DUTCHIET says

            I have no idea who you have been listening to. I think you have missed the message. The message that we are all members of this great nation and that we should help are fellow man, even if it means we need to spread the wealth around. Greed, is not a good thing. Tell me how many homes can you live in at one time? How many cars can you drive? Should you have to pay a larger percentage of you money to the IRS, while millionaires and billionaires pay less than you do? That is the message.

          28. Grady Poteat says

            Who I have been listening to is the original history books of this country back when I grew up in the 40’s and 50’s and not the rewritten garbage that has been taught in our schools since the 60s. Also by paying attention to what has happened to this great country that my ancestors built after kicking King George out. I am a simple old retired cowboy who lives on a small Social Security pension but I have sense enough to know that the liberal socialist idea of spreading the wealth around (i.e. Communism) does not work and has never worked any time in history or in any country it has been tried. The communist paradise has never existed. Just ask the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, Argentina, Venezuela or any other country that has tried it. If you want to spread the wealth around why don’t you go talk to some of your rich movie stars or sports stars or people like Gates, Buffett, or Ophrah who all make their money here in the USA but give it to charities in other parts of the world and none here at home.

          29. niknar says

            There was a period of time from FDR to LBJ when our income tax system was very progressive with the top bracket upwards of 70%, even 91% during Eisenhower’s time. That happens to correspond to the era of our greatest improvement in prosperity & well-being for all levels of society. We became #1 in virtually all aspects of prosperity & well-being until Reagan’s pro-corporate “trickle-down economics” created a huge divide between rich & poor, tripled the debt & stepped up our use of fossil fuels at a time we needed to reduce their use & convert to more efficient & sustainable energy, & with corporate control of our government, media, economy & society becoming further entrenched ever since, our relative decline in the world has continued, while nations that have adopted highly progressive tax systems, universal health care, free or low cost education, shorter work weeks with more holidays & vacation time, are now doing much better than we are & living longer, happier, healthier lives.

          30. Sean Thornton says

            Spreading the wealth around always results in everyone being poorer, and government being (even more) corrupt. Who gets to decide what’s “fair” and “equal?” I’m betting you and I won’t agree on what those terms mean, so someone has to be the arbiter, and that someone becomes very powerful. Played out over and over again throughout history, and liberals can’t seem to learn from it. FREEDOM produces the highest standards of living, the safest, cleanest societies, and ultimately the “fairest” outcomes. By the way, to answer your questions directly, I can live in as many houses and drive as many cars as I can afford. Why should you or anyone else get to tell me what my limit is?

          31. DUTCHIET says

            Sure you jest! Do you understand how the wealth is “spread around”? Fair and equitable taxation. There is no arbiter needed. Yes, people will disagree as to what is “fair and equitable”. But why should someone making $50,000 pay more taxes than someone collecting $50,000,000 income?
            No one is talking about limits on FREEDOM. Have you any knowledge of Sweden or Norway? According to every survey, I have seen they are the happiest people in the world and they are also some of the freest, with a very high standard of living, very safe, a much cleaner environment than USA, with healthcare far superior to ours.
            And my question is not how many homes can you live in at once? You can have as many home and cars and boats as you like and no one should tell you that you can’t.

          32. alevanpa says

            Are you aware that you’ve contradicted yourself in the space of two sentences? “No arbiter needed” to determine someone’s taxes, and, the very next sentence, “people disagree as to what is “fair and equitable…”, immediately followed with, it’s obvious that one person’s taxes are unfair compared to another’s, and that should be corrected. But, doesn’t this require an arbiter of some kind?. Yet, further on, you appear to agree that using an arbiter to determine someone’s tax rate (how much money they can keep after taxes) is putting a “limit on freedom.” Do I have this wrong?

          33. DUTCHIET says

            The fact that the law will dictate the tax rates there will be no need for an arbiter. That is where the disagreements will come when setting the rate of taxation . But there is no suppression of any freedoms

          34. alevanpa says

            But, isn’t that the point? Tax rates are not, in so far as I know, invented, on the fly, by taxing authorities. They are invented, and legalized by an “arbiter” authority-namely the congress and the president.

            Of course there is “suppression of freedom”-whenever congress, and the president, decide to increase, or decrease, the level of taxation on anyone, or group, they are saying that they, and not the individual citizen or group, has the right to decide how much of what the citizen has earned, belongs to the government. In other words, freedom is curtailed in the citizenry or group-whichever is affected.

            Of course, what I said above does not negate the need for the central government for funds, from the citizenry, to operate. Therefore, we constitutionally elect our representatives to congress, and the president, to represent our needs. I have my needs and desires, and you have yours, and, they do not, always, coincide.

            As citizens, we accept the fact that, for the benefit of the whole-which, if we did not do, the entire American enterprise would collapse into chaos with different groups and sections at war with each other-we must accept the curtailment of our individual freedoms to benefit the whole.

            The point of this whole tome is that, no matter what it does, or why it does something, any activity of government curtail’s someone’s freedom. Again, this does not mean that there is no need for government to curtail freedoms for the benefit of the whole. We, as good, loyal, citizens, accept the fact that this need exists. And, generally, we do not rebel against our loss of freedoms.

          35. DUTCHIET says

            First, thank you for presenting to me an intelligent reply. Tha is so refreshing.
            What I was referring to when I said no arbiter was not needed, I was considering that the rates would be set by law and that there would be no need for an arbiter once the rate were set into law, Before there would be debate
            Yes, there will always be suppression of freedom but not to the extent that there would be the repealing of the Bill of Rights. Some people’s options would be reduced, Money can’t buy happiness as the saying goes, but the more money the more options you have, which can make for a happier person.
            Offering a millionair less option cannot be as painful as lessening a single parent already limited options example rent or food.
            I find that you are describing Washington when you said:

            “As citizens, we accept the fact that, for the benefit of the whole-which, if we did not do, the entire American enterprise would collapse into chaos with different groups and sections at war with each other-we must accept the curtailment of our individual freedoms to benefit the whole.”

          36. alevanpa says

            Thank you for your kind words. I’m not sure that I’m the only person to deserve them, but I am grateful for them. That’s my ego talking.

            I thought, trying to keep the conversation going, that it would be a good idea to take a closer look at how laws are enforced, once congress and the president sign them into law.

            I am not sure, but, I think that, once a law is passed and its enforcement passed to the controlling bureaucracy, they are rarely, if ever, revisited. Their long-term effect, whether good or bad-particularly when bad-is not determined by the law’s effects, but by the machinations of the bureaucrats who benefit by employment and legal power that affects the activity of the citizens who are the target of the law.

            Laws are further affected, through lobbyists working for those who benefit from the law. The law’s usefulness is ignored, and it is maintained, through campaign donations and voting blocks.

            I’m thinking, particularly, of the law adding 10% ethanol to gasoline. The results are that that addition does not benefit the environment-as was intended when the law was passed. In fact, the ethanol has been found to damage the environment-not to mention the cost, to the vehicle owner, of the specialized mechanical parts required to keep the engine operating while using ethanol. Yet, it continues to be used, because of lobbyists, political donations and voting blocks of those benefiting economically by the law.

            I would venture a guess that this is not the only law, still on the books, whose effects are 180 degrees from the law’s original intent. Actually, there are so many laws on the books, that they are uncountable: https://cei.org/10KC/Chapter-2. You, and I, are probably breaking some law right now. That makes the possibility of government prosecutors, or bureaucrats, or whoever making unjust arrests highly probable. In other words, it makes the government tyrannical.

            What do you think?

          37. niknar says

            The more egalitarian societies such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, France & Belgium are also the more prosperous, longer living, better educated, healthier & happier societies.

            We were doing much better when our tax system was much more progressive & our society was more equal: from FDR to LBJ. Our demise started when the gap between rich & poor started widening in the ’70s, accelerating in the ’80s & continuing to this day.

            Unbridled greed by the already filthy rich is what’s ruining America.

          38. Helga Renfro says

            Oh really LBJ was the bright light that put into law to tax our social security.
            It really hurts old people with a modest income after retiring.

          39. kbmiller says

            Those countries are homogeneous and have generally, the same religion, work ethic, family values, social mores, etc. Now that immigrants from Africa and the Middle East are pouring in, it’s not so nice, is it? Kinda like what x pres. OHOMO did here.

          40. niknar says

            Good points!

          41. DUTCHIET says

            Thank you

          42. mrpoohead says

            Oh dear; English comprehension 101 – she said “families” quite clearly.

          43. Retired says

            Look up who attends the Bilderberg annual meetings to find out some of the richest people in the world who control the money , Money Changers . Look at the different years . Now you have some of the ring leaders of the OWO/NWO .

          44. mrpoohead says

            I have better things to do than pursue conspiracy theories – they didn’t give us the Financial Crisis 2008. Stupid American politicians and bankers did – Bilderberg is at least striving for a better place for all. World government will come – it makes pragmatic sense.

          45. Retired says

            It’s funny that it also affected the banking system all over including the .01 % interest . Better go look who the Bilderberg people are . Leaders have tried to control the world for centuries and all failed , the only survivors are the Money changers . Bilderberg and IMF/IMG that control the world money .

          46. mrpoohead says

            Unfortunately being retired gives folk too much time to think – you missed your vocation; script writing or fantasy stories me thinks.

            The basic problem with your hypothesis is that the folk going to these meetings changes all the time – political power outside of the US swings from left to right, both sides of politics are often represented. Media go to – many of them are very liberal, whistle-blowing. Wide variety of business folk too. US Presidents go, but they are administrators not legislators.

            The goal is international co-operation – thrusting a depression on the world is hardly achieving that nor, in any sense, good for business. Plus, the last one gave us WWII. Results way to un-controllable – we elected a buffoon!

            Bankers lobbied for the Glass-Steagall Act to be repealed – it was, in 1999; stupidity beyond reproach. This ultimately led to the Financial Crisis 2008. Different Presidents, a number of different Congresses. A home grown idiocy but luckily we spread it around the world with dodgy investments. Has this led to a NWO? No. Has it created political unrest? Yes. Hardly heading in the direction of a world government, which will only happen via co-operation.

            You are an ignoramus, but a good base for a crazy story – with lots of gaping holes in reality. Your life is way too sad, do us a favor – find a hobby!

          47. Retired says

            Do yourself a favor and Check out the people of the IMF -IMG – World bank – Central Bank and the Fed , they play musical chairs . Where do you think Greenspan and Yellen came from ???? Check out the Bilderberg Group and the Panama papers . They list the Money changers of the world who control politics . But you do not want to see the truth because that was not taught in your economics class .

          48. mrpoohead says

            So what are you suggesting? They conspired to undermine the whole world’s economy and currency – what good would that do them? Currencies crash, interest rates crash, they had to plug holes in banks or there would have been a run on cash and the whole shebang would have collapsed. IMF – financial stability, not instability. world Bank – loans to countries for growth, not breaking up countries.

            Panama Papers list tax evaders not people who want to crash the economy so that their money is worth considerably less than it was.

            You are a joke, think things through – there was nothing to gain with another depression. Growth is gain which is why we need regulation to stop another depression happening. A few percent growth each year is a lot better than 10% for a few years, followed by a crash and thirty years to catch up.

            Stop thinking, it probably hurts.

          49. Retired says

            You did not look at the names of any group I mentioned , it is all about control . They have theirs and the hell with the rest . We did have the interest crash world wide as well as currencies going like a yoyo . But the Interest crash is still with us while the banking industry is making big profits . Funny the Panama papers lists all the big wigs that are also part of the orginizations mentioned . The USA is the worst country going after people with foreign banking for taxes . Even in the depression and the 2008 meltdown the rich lost nothing just like most stock are back and many ahead . You are defending the ones who hurt you unless you are Ultra rich , something I doubt because if you was you would not be posting . Would not hurt for you to open your eyes to see what is going on world wide . The USA is the worlds teet being milked dry .

          50. mrpoohead says

            Do they have it in some weird currency that is not going to be affected? No.

            Why is interest rate still low – debt is still going up. Not rocket science.

            Panama Papers – what is unusual? Folk who don’t like paying tax? If the currency crashes so do their assets. Duh!

            If you were a millionaire before the Great Depression and you didn’t crash and burn then it is likely you’d still be wealthy, comparatively, after the event. Duh!

            Not defending anyone, just facts. America takes in fewer refugees per capita than any other Western country, we give less per capita for disasters. Milking what teat? Facts moron, not hyperbole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          51. Retired says

            You are blowing a lot of smoke that really stinks bad and have no clue as to how the Money changers operate , they were hiding their money and not so much to avoid taxes . You never looked who and what country the were from . Everyone got burned it’s just they had enough to not suffer like the rest . I hear Obama calling you better go answer .

          52. mrpoohead says

            I do not approve of the tax evasion; however you implied these people are behind the Financial Crisis 2008. They are not! Currencies crashed, their funds would have been in US dollars, Sterling or Euro’s therefore devalued. Duh!

          53. Retired says

            Of course they were as it was going on in the EU before it hit the USA . The Dollar and the Mark were like a yoyo and after the EU was formed the Euro jumped to over E1.40 and bottomed to -E1.08 . the Euro started at E1.18 . The Dollar did the same in value like a yoyo , both currencies are used as to how the world turns . The IMF/IMG and World Central bank are the ones in control and not what you think or what the Media pounded into your head . But you refuse to look up those Groups in control .

          54. mrpoohead says

            Tax evasion has a long history. The Euro was released to be at parity with the dollar, it fell in 2002 when we thought everything was great and the US economy on a roll, it crashed in 2008 when we realised that we’d stuffed up.

            Currency rates are dependent on economies not some little man out back with a dice.

            No idea what the IMG is and think you’ll find it is the World Bank. Those “groups” aren’t in control but merely expediting progress and development. As the employees are multi-national there’d be too much conflict of interest for your “idea” to pan out especially when it takes decades to play out by which time folk have moved on.

            I am not an adherent of Climate Change – it has a reasonable premise but gaping holes here and there. By comparison, your synopsis has maybe’s, possibilities and what if’s. Get a hobby! Or some prove – you got nothing.

          55. Retired says

            If you are not going to look up the various groups that you know nothing about , why are you talking about them . The EU was established to bail out the other countries that were on the verge of going broke and many did .I gave you proof and you do NOT understand it . So why spout off ????

          56. mrpoohead says

            The EU was established in 1993 and was merely an extension of other groups – EEC and EFTA. No bailing out scenario – just more conspiracy theory from you. Trade, communication and integration.
            What proof – in your dreams perhaps. You have nothing, you are a nothing.
            I’m correcting your drivel, not spouting off.
            World Bank – three leaders from Glass-Steagall Act being repealed to Financial Crisis 2008. IMF has a board of governors – the head changed four times in that period – heaven knows how many other members of the board changed and assorted minions.
            Stick to fairy stories for the grand-kids dopey!

            Financial Crisis 2008 – European countries that suffered as a direct result of dodgy American investments. There was no winner, thankfully the EU and Chinese took the moral high ground or we’d be bust.

            Did folk make money out of the chaos? Yes. Some of us realized that stupid lending practices had a finite time to run and got out when the going was good.

            Please provide your evidence – I wait with baited breath. You list things, but have no substance. Fairy stories grand-dad.

          57. Retired says

            Well at least you are starting to get better with answers . Did you forget about the countries in the EU that got bailed out ??? The people at the IMF/IMG and World Central Bank play musical chairs and our Fed kisses their but along with the market . It is all there just look up the names for the last 40 years .The are all connected to the money changers of the world.

          58. mrpoohead says

            Actually you said that the EU was created to bail out some countries – it wasn’t having been established more than ten years previously and that had grown out of something started in the 1950’s. Duh!

            Don’t recall World Bank or IMF being involved – the European Reserve Bank dealt with it and thankfully Germany, mostly, carried it. Let us not forget that the whole problem was created solely by America! They could have collectively sued and brought down the American banking system – they chose to take the “high ground”.

            World Bank is mostly for developing nations and the IMF is for “crisis” scenarios.

            The names are mostly of people trying to avoid tax plus a few back-handers to get the Olympics or World Cup. You remain an ignoramus. Do you have any proof of anything more? Thought not!

          59. Retired says

            Why do you keep changing the subject of the people in control of these groups play Musical Chairs . I Am well aware of what they do . Look at the names of the Bilderberg Group and Panama papers and the EU countries that got bailed out . Stick with the subject .

          60. mrpoohead says

            You have no subject – Panama Papers, a list of people avoiding tax nothing more. Nothing!

            The EU bailed out it’s own countries with its the Reserve Bank of EU and Germany took the moral high ground and funded it.

            You have nothing! Did those folk create the Financial Crisis 2008? No!
            Would they have benefited from it? How – smart folk would have sold off property in 2007, there was no mass sell-off.

            I don’t change the subject you don’t have a subject with any matter other than BS and hyperbole. This is why you return with zero every-time – not rocket science. Amusing though!

          61. mrpoohead says

            Aside from a list of tax evaders what do you think you have?

            EU countries bailed out as a result of American ineptitude. US debt currently on way to $21 trillion – most EU countries currently paying off their debts and collectively maybe around half that 21 with more than double the folk to pay it off. America is stuffed – not the EU.

          62. mrpoohead says

            Both the World Bank and IMF have two ways of funding. Donations are used for “crisis” loans, which might not be repaid – depends who it is. The rest is from members dependent on an equation using their GDP’s.

            Thus the US pays more as a whole; however per capita it does not. Japan, France, Germany, UK, Canada and Australia pay more – those countries are just off the top of my head; there’s more. The same applies in NATO too.

            You need to do more research and stop cherry-picking bits of garbage that you glean from the gutter. You remain an ignoramus!

          63. Retired says

            why do you change the subject ?? I am talking about people and you talk about funding , typical signs of a democrat . Independents ain’t much better .

          64. mrpoohead says

            What people and what did they do? All you have and had is a list of people defrauding their tax systems. If, you have anything else, you don’t, please forward.

            Funding – “World Central Bank play musical chairs and our Fed kisses their but along with the market”. you implied the Federal Reserve does all the funding. It don’t.

            You remain an ignoramus.

          65. Retired says

            You sure know how to twist a subject or change it . Panama was not so much about avoiding taxes as hiding the money from their home country because Swiss were caving in on disclosure of who had money there .You never looked at the names and the countries involved .

          66. mrpoohead says

            So you’re agreeing with me – tax avoidance. You still have nothing more than tax issues. Thank you!

            No change in Switzerland – interest rates not so good though.

            Stick to Hollywood scripts. You got nothing!

          67. Retired says

            When was the last time you was in Switzerland and talked to someone over there or had a bank account there ??? Things have changed . There is no good Interest anywhere thanks to the IMF/IMG and world Central Bank .Panama did pay a little better .But you never locked at all the foreign people that had money down there and their ties to the OWO/NWO .

          68. mrpoohead says

            My neighbor is Swiss and has a bank account there along with lots of relatives. I have worked there; as did my father in law at CERN. Suggest you get out more.

            Current lousy interest is as a result of Financial Crisis 2008 – wholly a US produced idiocy.

            Tax evasion, ill-gotten gains nothing more or less. Do you actually have anything?

          69. Retired says

            Yes you are living in the past , things have changed since your false claims about living there . What I actually have is you are a big BS handler .

          70. mrpoohead says

            Legality has changed; if prosecuted and committed Swiss now play “they have this” if asked.

          71. Retired says

            But your BS never changes !!

          72. mrpoohead says

            Amusing as it is to correct your ignorance and lack of evidence, it was considerably more fun when I was being paid to do it. You’re becoming boring.

            You have nothing to say, because you are a nothing. Ciao’.

          73. Retired says

            Yes you are very ignorant and boring , that is why they hired you to be on here .

          74. mrpoohead says

            Actually I was employed to investigate what and who, plus possible scenarios of Alt-right sites.

          75. Retired says

            you sure know how to spread you poop stories . You must have bin sleeping on the job if there was such a job for you . Being a site monitor does not pay that good .

          76. mrpoohead says

            Private security firm; sold it on to GCHQ, FBI, Homeland and all that drivel – one of them would have commissioned it but don’t know who.

            I haven’t told a lie yet, only truths from my end. Doubt you’ve emitted one fact based anything.

          77. mrpoohead says

            Have decided to add you to my list of ignoramuses – Frank Taylor, Peatro Giorgio and now “Retired”. MoronsRuS! Well done! All retirees amusingly.

          78. Retired says

            But you are Number one on the list along with the Obama and Cliton followers , the rest of us do not belong to your club.

          79. mrpoohead says

            Didn’t vote for either of them – Nixon, moron. Clinton and Kennedy, scum. BushII, lackadaisical. Choice of Trump or Clinton – biggest joke ever!

            See; big picture, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/26/trump-opioids-crisis-health-emergency-funds And that’s what you get from a sales based health service as opposed to a service based system. Greed!

            You remain an ignoramus!

          80. Retired says

            The lessor of two evils has bin around for decades and as money cost involved it gets worse every cycle ,plus a third party can Not get the Electoral vote .

          81. mrpoohead says

            Plutocracy – no choice. Both parties owned by same industry bodies and conglomerates – NRA fund both sides. President immaterial, not a legislator. No change, country is, was and will be forever more a dump!

          82. Retired says

            Kind of funny how the world is changing the way people are voting all over . Take the money out of the PAC in the USA and things will change here as well .Trump is Just the beginning as it will happen at the state level . The public is tired of the Fake Media articles .Congress is our biggest problem ,will you ever admit to that ???? So tell me what you Know about the NRA ,are you on the board or Treasurer ???

          83. mrpoohead says

            Trump is nothing – President has zip power. Administrator – thus, no wall, ban, deportation or repeal. Duh!
            Tired of the fake articles – you on a site that does nothing else. Funny as!
            Congress is the plutocracy – duh!
            NRA website – has all the info on who they sponsor. Duh!

          84. Retired says

            of your poop chute as usual .

          85. mrpoohead says

            Well if you can disprove one item of that I’ll donate $10,000 to a charity of your choice. Will require reputable reference – not Alt-right gibberish!

          86. Retired says

            You ain’t got 10 k to throw around .I have given you plenty of facts you just don’t like them !!

          87. mrpoohead says

            You have supplied hyperbole and BS – not one fact! And, definitely not one fact with a reputable reference.

            I have property worth a few million. Will that do?

          88. Retired says

            Blowing poop again .

          89. Helga Renfro says

            mrpoohead, now I know you are kidding about every thing you say. America has always given more than the rest of the world. Just look at the UN contributions and if Trump hadn’t brought it to our attention we wouldn’t have known. Strange now some of the countries are paying more. Americans are always first to help in disasters, g

          90. mrpoohead says

            UN funding is based on an equation – technically per capita Japan, Germany, France, Australia, Canada, UK and a few others pay more. Duh! Same applies to NATO funding, well doesn’t include Japan or Australia obviously. Per capita a Muslim country provides the most troops for NATO

            Trump is cherry-picking drivel. Plus he’s the biggest moron ever in the history of Presidents. Me thinks you should take anything Trump says and check it – doubt he’d know a truth if it hit him.

          91. Randal Brown says

            “Per capita a Muslim country provides the most troops for NATO” LOL!!
            Easy on the corporate TV propaganda. You are the exact same as the right-wing propaganda victims who hated obama blindly.

          92. mrpoohead says

            Suggest you do a bit of reading – Turkey is the answer.

            I am fact based; detest the idiotic lies of either side and buffoons, suspect you are in that category. Don’t do TV news – sensationalist claptrap.

          93. Randal Brown says

            fact based lol!!!

          94. mrpoohead says

            Prove me in-correct then – good luck!

          95. Randal Brown says

            Don’t have to, comments like muslim nations send more troops per capita to nato destroys your own credibility

          96. mrpoohead says

            Only one Muslim nation, Turkey, is in NATO. Albania has a majority of Muslims but very lackadaisical.

            Turkey usually provides more troops for exercises, per capita, they’re cheaper! Duh!

            And not refuting merely confirms – thanks!

          97. Randal Brown says

            hey’o he figured out the only muslim nation in nato is turkey. An the per capita non-sence the low IQ dupes fall for.
            “America takes in fewer refugees per capita than any other Western country, we give less per capita for disasters.”
            Our population is twenty times most european nations. So we do give millions upon millions more than ANY other country for “disasters”. The US is the most giving nation on earth, PERIOD. If US grain shipments stopped to africa millions would die within a year. And of course we take in less “refugees”(economic migrants) than “western nations”(europeans), As they are being flooded currently because these “refugees” can simply walk in or get picked up 5miles off the african coast, and their governments and political elietes are using them for political purposes

            You like to have a charade in intellectualism, but everything you believe is low IQ propaganda.

          98. mrpoohead says

            Actually I never alluded to more than one Muslim country – comprehension not your forte’?

            Seems a tad unfair to not compare per capita – fail! US remains scum!
            Africa feeds itself dummy! They export mostly.
            EU; hardly flooded with refugees – 10,000’s in 750 million is hardly a flood. Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have born the brunt of Syrian Crisis – millions! Turkey alone has 2 million.

            My lack of intellect is still considerably greater than your idiocies. Funny as! No propaganda – don’t do the news, do like laughing at the Alt-right though.

          99. Randal Brown says

            ” fail! US remains scum!”
            This is exactly why you believe the lies you do. Preconceptions shape reality.

          100. mrpoohead says

            I’m a modest soul but I think it fair to say I have seen and lived considerably more than yourself. Especially in the travel department.

          101. Randal Brown says

            I don’t believe a thing you say. Like your baseless representation of “10’000’s” of refugees. When europe has accepted millions since the arab spring. Which is just one more example of how political hacks allow their preconceptions to shape their reality, true or not.

          102. mrpoohead says

            Arab Spring gave folk more freedom and democracy. No millions and few from Arab Spring – mostly Syrian Crisis.

            Think you’ll find your conception are tweaked by fukwit Alt-right gibberish. I like facts – you got none or prove.

          103. Randal Brown says

            “Arab Spring gave folk more freedom and democracy.” LOL!!!
            If a majority votes for theocracy that doesn’t make that theocracy “democracy”.
            Arab spring gave folk more freedom, GIVE ME A BREAK You exist in bizzaro world.
            Then again, if your dead your “free” i quess.

          104. mrpoohead says

            Only one theocracy – Saudi, our best friends. Bizarre!

            Most of the rest are democracies-ish. Eg Iran has elected government; parties of left and right with guaranteed elected representation for Christian and Jewish population – they align themselves with either side of politics.

            Whilst many vote on religious affiliation there are right or left Shia’s and Sunni’s. Life is evolving. Plus; our fault in the first place – prior to 1948 and our bullying and bribing to force Israeli State, region relatively peaceful; issues were nationalistic rather than religious.

            Please read more.

          105. Randal Brown says

            yeah yeah and Iran isn’t. Propaganda victim.

          106. mrpoohead says

            Nope; initially yes but legislation is now down to government. the Ayatollah is there to make sure laws passed sit okay with Islam a bit like the President is supposed to be a morality check on ours. Duh!

            Iran is actually much changed; it has settled down and I know of two Christians who have returned home. Is it perfect? No, but our homicide rate is higher!

          107. Randal Brown says

            What a joke, Iran is a theocracy. Notice how this proves your a propaganda victim also. Europe has been flooded with pro-iranian propaganda, and look who buys it!!

          108. mrpoohead says

            No pro-Iranian propaganda – don’t think much is said about the place unless it is bad.

            Iran worked hard to get the sanctions removed, they are the least of our concerns and technically on the same side as they too are fighting ISIS along side Iraq. Please keep up!

            I should stick to the US; your knowledge of your own country is poor. Leave the rest of the world to those that have more experience.

          109. Randal Brown says

            Nice attempted to straw man me as “alt-right” good media parrot points, but once again prove the lack of any argument.

          110. mrpoohead says

            Hardly; basic facts are out there and the only place that supports you is Alt-right who’s stories are so full of holes as to be gibberish.

          111. Randal Brown says

            Says the idiot calling Iran a democracy who protects it’s christians and jews.

          112. mrpoohead says

            They have had a marked rise in Christians arriving and returning – all three religions are part of their society and have guaranteed government representation. Jewish numbers are fairly stable and have been for a long time.

            Tourists have returned; historically a very interesting place lots of important sites.

          113. Randal Brown says

            No one on earth could think the arab spring brought anything positive. Unless your an islamic extremist

          114. mrpoohead says

            Mostly it has ushered in democracies and elections after years of dictatorships. Try again zippy! ISIS are not part of the Arab Spring – they are an extremist bunch of idiots who have the support of less than 1% of the Muslim population. Duh!

          115. Randal Brown says

            propaganda victim

          116. mrpoohead says

            Any evidence from a reliable source? Thought not!

          117. Randal Brown says

            10,000’s LOL!!! What a joke. Im sure “nazi’s” and “white supremacists” are the biggest threat to europe also. Rather than the dozens of terror incidents a week, and the islamization of europe through forced mass migration, Give me a break.

            10,000’s LOL!!

          118. mrpoohead says

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War Fail!

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe_(2014%E2%80%93present)#2017 Twelve all up and includes Russia and Turkey. Fail!

            Most of my relatives are in Europe – most have yet to see a Syrian.

          119. Randal Brown says

            Could you use Wikipedia as a source in college?? didn’t think so. niice attempt to find the first thing that pops up on a google search that you think will support your argument, but it actually proves your lack of one
            “Most of my relatives are in Europe – most have yet to see a Syrian” #1 I don’t believe a thing you say.
            #2 Because hardly any of the current “refugees” are from syria.

          120. mrpoohead says

            No need to use Wikipedia – just gives you basic story. Scroll down to bottom and check out all the references it garnered it’s facts from.

            Most of the current refugees are Syrian – where else are they from? A few Eritreans and Burmese.

          121. Randal Brown says

            “Most of the current refugees are Syrian – where else are they from? A few Eritreans and Burmese.”
            LOL!!! What a lie

          122. mrpoohead says

            Nope facts is facts – South Sudan and Afghanistan have lots of folk next door but no reason for them not to return now. In fact few are moved on now – our current arrivals are mostly from those three countries I first listed.

            Amusing how you never have any evidence of my faults other than what you think. I should give up thinking it is obviously too much of a strain for you.

          123. mrpoohead says

            PS Should I add you to my list of morons as per the other retirees?

          124. mrpoohead says

            PS Save California – petition not doing so good. 11 months and still less than 3000 signatures. Ha, ha, ha!
            PPS You can only impeach someone for doing something illegal. He hasn’t!

            Ha,. ha, ha. Back to the Zimmer frame. You were hot in the 70’s though.

          125. mrpoohead says

            Helga needs a lesson in how the country works; please call (408) 896-2231 or visit
            5654 Herma St
            San Jose, CA
            95123-2029

            She looked okay in the 70’s. The 1970’s not in her 70’s.

            Please also teach her about internet safety/security. I don’t know; these oldies don’t know how the country works or pretty much anything else. No wonder the country has gone to the dogs. With her and Trump – we’re stuffed!

          126. Retired says

            NOW name all the Democrats ????

          127. boone1 says

            aklady is lucky if she knows her own name. Let alone namie any rich democrat.

          128. Retired says

            You nailed that correct !!!

          129. boone1 says

            Thank you sir.

          130. Joey says

            once again you are full of crap!

          131. AKLady says

            Sewer language, ignorance, childish insults …
            I am so impressed.

          132. God,Family,Country says

            3 of those families give and support Democrat Hearst, Walton Du Pont

          133. gonzales27 says

            Don’t leave out the Clintons

          134. Retired says

            Obama is getting there very Quick .

          135. AKLady says

            Try writing four books that make the New York Times book list. You can be rich.
            Of curse, it requires study and hard work …

          136. lurkingwithintent says

            Or, have someone else write them for you.

          137. AKLady says

            With a Doctorate in Law degree. Are you really that ignorant?

          138. Retired says

            No but you are swallowing the empty Hook from the media .

          139. AKLady says

            You are blocked, again.

          140. Retired says

            Vicious tonight ????

          141. Retired says

            NYT is a liberal rag you depend on . He did not write the books , someone else writes he just gives the info and the writer makes it look good.

          142. AKLady says

            Well, you obviously have never attended college.
            Stop the childish lies, They simply display your ignorance, not to mention the racism which fuels it.
            One does not graduate Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude without having an excellent mind, and excellent writing ability. In college you are called upon to write at least 2-3 formal papers per subject.

          143. Retired says

            You and Obozo are the racist !!!! Your BS shows your Ignorance amongst other things. I hear your master calling for prayer time .

          144. God,Family,Country says

            I don’t comment on here I just sit back, and read to see how informed, or uninformed my fellow countrymen are. Many people don’t know much about politics, some are Well informed!! I know most people who Love America, being free, and making a decent living to provide for their families are tired of elected officials throwing this Great country to the dogs. Their tired of Crybabies Complaining, Blaming and doing everything they can to destroy this country, instead of using that energy to make something out of their lives. Then you come on here and think everyone is Racist, childish or whatever because you have a different view. You are the one who is misinformed!!! Oh you text stats, propaganda and all the Great deceptions that the Democrats use, but most of these people like me who have been around 50 60 70 years knows the Real Truth about the Democratic Party. So why you think you can come on a Conservative site and speak your nonsense is puzzling!!!

          145. AKLady says

            Assume, assume, assume….
            I lived the history, so don’t try to play the “misinformed’ game with me,
            I am very aware of the “Real Truth”.

            There is nothing “conservative” about this site, well unless you call ignorant, illiterate, misinformed. opinionated …
            (Oh, and by the way, you elect those “officials”. Maybe you should make better choices. Also, I am a member of the Alaska Independence Party, not a Democrat,

          146. Retired says

            Why do Brag about yourself and tell so many lies . You don’t live in Alaska . You are just as squirrely as Hillary and Sanders .

          147. kbmiller says

            Retired, since I blocked that fool a while ago, ask AKlady about Donna Brazille claiming she’s got proof that Hell LIAR y rigged the DumbA$$o CROOK primary and that she and the DNC funded the, proven false, Trump dossier while HillBilly Clinton himself was meeting with Putin, 1 on 1. Wonder what kind of LIE she’ll tell about this Russian collusion. Thanks

          148. Retired says

            They will try to make a fool out of Brazille like they did in the 50s with McCarthy Claiming we had Communist in our Gov. .

          149. Joey says

            Because ak is convinced that he or she is the know it all of the world. It’s pretty pathetic and excessively boring.

          150. Helga Renfro says

            God,Family,Country You are awesome I love what you wrote. These leftist seem to think they can insult us and call us names and most of all they call us racists. From what I see in my country lately is that white people are the minority and the group that is mostly discriminated against. I’m retired and America is no haven for old people any more. I would be better off being an illegal here in California I would qualify for help from the State.

          151. God,Family,Country says

            Thank you Helga Renfro I appreciate your compliment, I am just a God Fearing Family and Country Loving person, who has been around for a few days now. I get tried of seeing the same thing come out AK texts, like it has a right to disgrace us for our view. I do feel for you, I have a couple friends in California who are like you, and afraid to speak up even to Law enforcement!!! Now that is Really Bad when a person who follows the rules, and laws becomes afraid to ask for help from the police. I would have to move. I hope the best for you and I hope we can get our country back. But mostly I wish people would stop Blaming and start taking responsibility for their own actions.

          152. Joey says

            Liberal idiots graduate from there every year. Doesn’t make them intelligent in the least. Forty to fifty years ago yeah, but today, no!

          153. anibanib says

            Whats the matter guys, jealous of the rich people, whilst you live in hovels like this https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55f242057f46a83f17aa9eb1eac9be5cac1277f5a4d1e4c2cf9dda758cd59eb6.jpg

          154. rick meek says

            Remember just WHO made them this way……

          155. Retired says

            That was how Obama lived until Jarret came along , you evidently know nothing about your Muslim King .

          156. anibanib says

            What are you babbling about……who is my Muslim king???????

          157. Joey says

            Retired, you are wasting your valuable time with anianib. The idiot lives in Sweden and is just another leftist liberal fascist wanting to harrass Americans.

          158. Retired says

            That is the old Swedude that has changed names dozens of times and his line of shitsky has not changed .

          159. Joey says

            Well you pegged that perfectly! Lol!

          160. Helga Renfro says

            Retired: Obama never had to live like that remember he had a white mother and he got his education free from our generous tax payers. So did Michelle. Of course they were smart but they got plenty of government help.

          161. Retired says

            Was you ever in the south side of Chitcago where they lived before Jarret came along ????

          162. Rodney Steward says

            Is that you in the Picture??

          163. Helga Renfro says

            Obama has already arrived among the richest.

          164. Joey says

            Exactly!

          165. DUTCHIET says

            What is a “demo rat”?

          166. Rodney Steward says

            Take a good looooong look in the mirror!!!

          167. DUTCHIET says

            i DO AND i SEE BEAUTY AND INTELLIGENCE/ AND WHAT DO YOU SEE?

          168. Rodney Steward says

            I can’t see shi$ over this computer but it doesn’t sound very bright!

          169. DUTCHIET says

            That is because you are a very rude, ignorant person. Who replys to a simple question with a personal attack. No one with any intelligence /

          170. Rodney Steward says

            I wouldn’t talk of intelligence, spread the WEALTH around, sounds a lot like a Sanders Freak, known as Socialism, and the brown boy that just left our house wanted some of the same BS! If you were a so called intelligent, you would know that the rich pay 70% of all the TAXES in this country, maybe you’re the ignorant one!! 🙂

          171. DUTCHIET says

            It appears that you have fallen to Trump’s fake news Maybe you should look at some facts concerning raves world wide.
            The top income tax rate in the United States is 39.6 percent. That ranked 33rd highest on a list of the top rates in 116 nations compiled this year by KPMG, an international tax advisory corporation. Another survey – by tradingeconomics.com, a website that compiles economic data – ranks the U.S. top rate 38th highest among 155 nations and territories.

            Chad and Ivory Coast had the highest top tax rates, at 60 percent.

            Your claim of 70% seems to be very Trunpish, BS. How do you define Socialism?

          172. Rodney Steward says

            Well Douche, just which one of these countries would you choose to live in other than here, which one of the muslim infested European would you chose, or maybe Venezuela under their new socialist system they’ve went to fighting over cats, dogs and rats for supper and don’t even have toilet paper! Russia maybe, or maybe one of the sand lands, that have Shariah law!!! There’s sooo many fine places to choose, so if I were you I’d get out of this AWFUL place, I don’t care where we rank!! You seem to be a 100% brown clown lover that tried to take all this freedom away from this country for 8 years! I’d leave the Intelligent word along!!

          173. DUTCHIET says

            Rodney, You have disappointed me. Here I thought I was speaking with an intelligent thoughtful person who was ready to engage in a dialogue about the good and bad point of our arguments. Instead, you resort to the lowest form of arguments, name calling. It seems like when presented with an argument there are only two intelligent things to do. Accept or reject. But you have come up with another, name calling.
            The fact that there are other countries who have done something right and admitting it
            does not mean a migration to those countries is necessary, but it only means we should look to better this country by considering changes. All of the things you included in this posting were never mentioned by me, so why did you reference them?
            And to be sure I never said the USA was an AWFUL place, your word comrade.
            Also, I am a bit surprised to see you are a bigot, but then again you are a Trump supporter.

          174. Rodney Steward says

            And X-military! This is why you don’t want these made up refugees http://www.youtube.com/wat… and is much worse in England that now is deporting these gutter rats! Maybe you need to go to your safe space and color!

          175. DUTCHIET says

            Don’t you know that such comments go to the hart of your creditability? You are making my argument for me while at the same time you are making a fool of yourself.
            You know you may want to try an adult coloring book, once you act like one.

          176. Rodney Steward says

            Your spelling is a little off sweet lips, and what did you say you were coloring today, Hellary, Obama, Watters or Warren, all are losers but they all helped make safe places for you and so many like you!

          177. DUTCHIET says

            I am sorry I misjudged you. You are not a fool you are an ass. You cannot provide any intelligent response. I really am wasting my time thinking we could exchange ideas, when you have yet to have one. Please now go to your room .play with yourself and be happy and don’t bother me again, jerk.

          178. Rodney Steward says

            Well we all have bad days, is your mother busy later!! 🙂 🙂

          179. DUTCHIET says

            You know you and my mother would get along, seeing she is dead. But I know what kind of a guy you are. You are a good buddy. You are the kind of guy who shares things so when you get two blow jobs , you give your good buddy one.
            I would call you a name be that would only be an insult to asshole.

          180. Rodney Steward says

            From the looks of it you seem to be the forum a$$hole, and by the way, you never did say what loser you were coloring today!! 🙂

          181. DUTCHIET says

            I have already told you that you should try an adult coloring book, once you become one. Now go to your room and enjoy yourself with your tinnie, bey small hands. Then go away as I am tiring of your stupid comments.

          182. Rodney Steward says

            LOLO, LATER TATER, be sure to stay inside the lines!

          183. Grady Poteat says

            Add a “c” in the space and you will know.

          184. niknar says

            Did you forget the Kochs, the Waltons, the Mercers, the Mars, Putin…?

          185. Grady Poteat says

            Yes those people are rich but they are not the richest in the world. The richest are the ones I named and if you do not believe it then look it up in the Forbes Magazine who keeps up with who is rich. They are all demo rats just like I said

          186. niknar says

            That list is based on annual earnings on the books. There is much income & wealth that is hidden by Putin & others, partly because some don’t want their income exposed for all to see, & some because they were illicitly gained.

            In any case, they’re all corporatists from either side, & those are the people we should be concerned about turning our formerly democratic republic into a fascist corporatocracy as has already been virtually achieved.

          187. Grady Poteat says

            And what does Putin have to do with the discussion at hand. We were talking about the demo rats always trying to bring up the Rich Republicans when the most of the rich people in this country are demo rats themselves. The last I read 62% of both houses of congress are millionaires and of that number 53% are demo rats and they always holler “We don’t send millionaires to congress”. A bunch of lying hypocrites.

          188. niknar says

            The original claim was “The richest people in the world are all demo rats.”, & that claim was made by you. It so happens that Putin is part of this world, & so are a whole bunch of other very rich people whose wealth exceeds the ones you mentioned.

            I’ve never heard any claim by Democrats that they don’t send millionaires to Congress. It is well-known that Congress is heavily populated with millionaires, which is likely 1 factor in why they respond more to the very rich than to ordinary people (the other being laws equating corporations with people & money with votes, & lifting restrictions on money flowing to candidates). At least the Democrats make a better attempt at pretending they care about ordinary people’s problems. The Republicans’ contempt for regular people could hardly be more blatant: I never see a single proposal by them that does anything for anybody but corporate executives, billionaires & multimillionaires.

          189. Retired says

            You would be surprised how many rich Democrats fall into Millionaires , start with Hollywood – Bankers and some Corporations . The day of big business being republican are gone ,it started with states bargaining for Businesses to move into states from another state. Just look into southern states that have landed Auto plants . Look into the bartering of Foxconn and next is Amazon looking for a second headquarters . Corporate welfare today is higher than people welfare plus more goes to foreign aid than to people here . How much foreign AID did the USA receive with all the disasters in the last decade ????

          190. niknar says

            Millionaires & billionaires abound. They’re both Republican & Democrat & nearly all corporatist. So no surprise that corporate welfare is so high & seems to keep getting higher all the time, no matter which party is in power.

            Speaking of foreign aid, it has little to do with need, but much to do with politics. The top recipients of US aid are Israel, a relatively rich nation, Egypt & Pakistan, 2 Muslim nations with authoritarian governments who often (especially Pakistan) go against us, sometimes quite egregiously, & they all keep getting us in places we shouldn’t be.

          191. Grady Poteat says

            Putin is NOT ONE of the 8 people who control more wealth than 3.6 Billion people which is half the worlds population. And most of the rich so called celebrities are demo rats. YOU may have never heard them make the claim that demo rats do not send millionaires to congress but I HAVE. The head of the demo rat party here in Montana has made that claim several times on TV. So stuff your nitpicking.

          192. niknar says

            Most people in the know recognize Putin as the richest individual in the world. For a little over a decade he has allowed various oligarchs to skirt the law by taking half of their profit as his personal fee. This has often meant millions per person per year.

          193. Grady Poteat says

            Well I guess most people in the know are smarter than all the people who make their living keeping up with who has what. Maybe Putin has amassed a few billion dollars but the 8 people on the list has 100 billion more or less each, so if Putin was in their class he would have been listed. From what I am reading from you you should change your name from niknar to nitwit because Putin has nothing to do with the original discussion.

          194. niknar says

            The general consensus is upwards of $200 billion in wealth for Putin, which exceeds Gates & Bezos put together. Estimates are imprecise because most of his wealth is hidden & in various accounts under various names all over the world. Forbes put together the list you have from income reported publicly, which include the more honest & aboveboard salarymen like Gates & Buffett

          195. Grady Poteat says

            Ok nitwit maybe he does have that much money, that just puts him in the same class as the other 6 liberal socialist communist demo rats.

          196. niknar says

            Your reading comprehension & capacity for understanding are so lacking that it’s futile to try to reason with you.

            The only Communists I see in the top rung of wealthy people are Putin & some fellow oligarchs & some Chinese politicians & businessman. Oh, & it appears that North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un has about the same amount of wealth as his clone in the White House!

          197. Grady Poteat says

            Let me guess, you were born and educated after 1960 when the liberal politically correct started rewriting the history books to indoctrinate the young the same way Hitler did in Germany. Most of you cannot comprehend that liberalism is socialism is communism. That is why so many of you think that Bernie Sanders was such a great candidate the same way the people in Venezuela voted for Hugo Chaeveze and look what has happened to that county. It is like I told a waitress at the local café who had just finished college with a degree in teaching, if she would read the history books she studied in school and college and compare them to the real history books of this country that I read in the 40’s and 50’s she would not recognize the same country. Most of the liberal tripe taught in the colleges today is straight out of the communist manifesto that Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and all the comrades use. Just like all the so called anti-faci demonstrators do not realize they are the fascists like Hitler’s Brown Shirts that would not allow anyone to say anything they did not agree with. So my reading comprehension and capacity for understanding is on par or better than yours as when I graduated in 1962 a high school education at that time was equal to a bachelors degree today. At that time the American education system was number 1 in the world, today it is number 27 and dropping.

          198. niknar says

            Since we haven’t had a non-corporatist president since before Reagan, & no truly liberal/progressive president since FDR, who is widely considered to be the best president in the last 150 years.

            What I read about Lenin, Stalin & Mao were overwhelmingly negative. They were authoritarian & repressive. Even though they called themselves “Communist” or “Socialist”, they were more notable for their ruthless authoritarianism than anything they did on behalf of society or communities, having a lot more in common with Hitler & Mussolini than socialists that govern Europe. The US has had nothing like that ruling us until this year, when a dictator wannabe, admirer of Putin, came to power, & little by little has been trying to take more & more power for himself & discredit anybody who opposes him.

            You are totally right about us being #1 in the world in education & most other measures of prosperity & well-being right up until Reagan came to power (illicitly by the way, from undermining Carter’s negotiations with Iran to release the hostages, & instead making a side deal with the ayatollah to keep the hostages until Reagan’s inauguration, whereby Iran would be provided with military planes & have its assets unfrozen) & corporatized our government, media, economy & society; took money away from education, scientific research & the environment; gave big tax cuts to the rich, thus widening the gap between rich & poor; & got us into a major recession, some major scandals, & tripled our debt. We have steadily gone downhill ever since with corporatist government after corporatist government & our democracy has been subverted into a fascist corporatocracy. The last Republican nominee ran as a populist, but turned out to be as corporatist as any, & wants to reinstitute the same kind of tax cuts for the rich that happened in the Harding & Coolidge administrations & gave us the Great Depression, during Reagan as I mentioned above, & with Bush Jr. that gave us 2 recessions, including a near depression, & turned surpluses into record deficits.

            What we desperately need once again is a true populist progressive like Roosevelt & Sanders leading our nation to set us back on the right track.

          199. Grady Poteat says

            LOLOL.. You are blinder than a bat and totally brainwashed with liberal garbage if you think carter, Clinton, and odumbo did anything good for this country. The problems we are having in NK and Iran now are because of Clinton and odumbo. In 1995 Clinton went to NK and made a deal to stop the nuclear build up and gave them 600 million dollars for food aid because the people were starving. The people are still starving and the money was promptly put into their military program that jump started the nuclear program. Odumbo gave Iran 40 Billion and the same thing happened. Neither country has ever kept their word on any treaty they signed and carter, Clinton and odumbo backed down every time and let them get away with their crap every time. So now we have two rogue nations that care nothing about human life who have nukes and will use them. So I hope you liberal idiots enjoy what is going to happen to this world and the USA. Me I don’t care as I do not have many more years to live anyway. My ancestors came here in 1642 and some were here before Columbus. They kicked King George’s ass out and built the greatest nation on earth and I have seen it destroyed by you liberal idiots in my life time. I remember back in 58 when all the shit started down in Little Rock and I said then that America is going to fall, I said I just hope it does not happen in my life time but it has. So enjoy what you and your kids and grandkids have coming because it will not be pretty. The downfall started many years before Regan with JFK and LBJ.

          200. niknar says

            So an obscure Montana official makes that claim. Big deal!

          201. Sharon Windus says

            lol.. First thing I’ve seen your signature on that makes sense.

          202. Joey says

            yada,yada yada. AK the master of all knowledge of the universe. NOT!!!

          203. AKLady says

            Why the insult towards President Eisenhower?

        3. boone1 says

          obama and his man wife will get sixty million for a book deal about there eight years in the black house I mean white house sorry lot they be.

          1. Retired says

            That Black stain will never come off either , you had it right the first time .

          2. boone1 says

            Right that black stain will last till the end of time.

          3. Mark Clemens says

            I heard Trump still has people spraying Lysol all over the White House. It smelled so bad in January, Mrs. Trump had to stay in NYC until the funk was gone………

      2. LIVE FREE OR DIE says

        IT started with Kennedy and Medicare.

        1. StormyKnight says

          I believe it started with LBJ not Kennedy. I know- six of one, half dozen of the other.

          1. AKLady says

            You need a better history education. It began before Eisenhower.

          2. SD of AZ says

            Further back than that, look at the new deal after the great depression. The problem with freebies is cutting them off. The dem wits just keep piling on the promises. But their end has been the NWO agenda for at least half a century now. Time to do term limits and since they will not vote for this, we must give them forced term limits. Vote em out, all of them every time they run for reelection!

          3. LIVE FREE OR DIE says

            LBJ certainly discovered political steroids, that’s for sure! lol

        2. AKLady says

          It began long before Kennedy, who, by the way, gave his life for this nation.

          1. Retired says

            He Was murdered by people who think like you , communist .

          2. AKLady says

            Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough. Franklin D. Roosevelt

          3. LIVE FREE OR DIE says

            #1) Don’t be so delusionally naive.
            #2) I was referring to the philandering prick Ted – the one who was thrown out of “Hahaharvid” for cheating but “somehow” was miraculously readmitted and graduated. I’m figuring the “somehow” was either the donation for the Kennedy library or the (Ahem – phlegm attack) the Kennedy “School of Government”.

          4. AKLady says

            You must be fairly young.
            Men in power play games.
            Most do not have to resort to rape or harassment.
            Money and looks draws certain types of women like flies to honey.

          5. Joey says

            What a stupid statement! Kennedy did not give his life for this nation. He was murdered!!

          6. AKLady says

            The Commander in Chief of the Military is killed during wartime, by an assassin trained by the Russians and Cubans — is someone who has given their life for their country. Kennedy was also a highly decorated war veteran.

        3. Grady Poteat says

          No, it started in 1865 with the end of the War of Northern Aggression.

      3. kbmiller says

        Go back to LBJ. The results of his, “Great Society”, decades later have been proven to be destructive. “If we(DumbA$$ok RATS) give the niqqers a little something(Welfare) they’ll vote DumbA$$ok RAT for 150 years.” This policy alone has resulted in just what the DumbA$$ok RATS wanted….. the destruction of the African American family. It demanded the family be broken in order to be eligible for welfare benefits. What mother wouldn’t kick her ,”Baby daddy” out in exchange for free food, housing, utilities, clothing, health care, etc?

        1. AKLady says

          November 8, 1954

          “Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.” President Dwight Eisenhower, Republican