Washington State Chipping Away at Religious Freedom


Consider the case of Barronelle Stutzman of Richland, Washington. As the owner of Arlene’s Flowers, Stutzman has been hit with a lawsuit alleging that she illegally discriminated against customer Robert Ingersoll when she refused to provide floral arrangements for his same-sex wedding. Despite the fact that Ingersoll was a longtime customer and that Arlene’s Flowers has a long history of both serving and employing homosexuals in the Richland area, Washington authorities and the ACLU contend that her refusal was discriminatory and illegal.

The case won’t officially go to trial until March 23, but Benton County Superior Court Judge Alex Ackstrom has already struck a blow to the defense. In a ruling Thursday, Ackstrom said that Stutzman could be held personally liable for court costs stemming from the case should she lose the lawsuit. Her lawyers insist that the florist shop was created under a Washington law that protects personal assets except in cases where fraud, deception, or theft occur. None of the three are alleged in this case, making Ackstrom’s ruling seem more like a politically-motivated decision than one based on legal precedent.

An Assault on Religious Beliefs

But that’s par for the course when it comes to this country’s war on freedom of religion. In the fight for gay rights, judges and state officials are cherry-picking what counts as discrimination and what doesn’t. And even though there is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing the right to get gay married, homosexuals are apparently a protected group, above the law of the land.

The case against Arlene’s Flowers is only one of many examples of states cracking down on a business owner’s right to make decisions based on matters of faith and conscience. Owners of a New York farm were financially sanctioned for refusing to put on gay wedding ceremonies. Elsewhere, a photographer was sued for declining to take pictures for a same-sex wedding. Bakers, florists, wedding officials, and T-shirt makers across the country are realizing that their right to religious freedom takes a backseat to the gay agenda.

It’s stunning to see how obviously hypocritical liberals are willing to be in their pursuit of social justice. These business owners aren’t turning gay people away at the door. They aren’t refusing to hire homosexuals. They are declining to participate in a ceremony that was illegal in all 50 states only a few short years ago.

The left is trying to make this case about a bigoted Christian imposing her will in defiance of the law. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ingersoll had been a customer of Arlene’s Flowers for more than a decade prior to the “discrimination” in question. This is about the government using their powers to force religious-minded entrepreneurs to bend to the will of liberalism. And, in case after case, the liberals are winning.

Why even have a Constitution?

  1. Combatvet52 says

    More BS

  2. RMCSRET says

    More loss of freedoms by the people of this country. Last time I checked it is a right to serve who one
    pleases to serve.

    1. Mark Clemens says

      Unfortunately it’s not, because of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s. It is illegal for a restaurant or any business to turn away people based on Race or Religious preference.
      The homosexuals have abused these civil rights acts.
      I personally don’t see how the homosexual has become a race or religion. No kind of sex (homo, hetero, or mono) is guaranteed under the Constitution nor any of the civil right acts of the 1960’s.
      Sex is be a bodily function (to reproduce), but it’s not a right. It’s a habit. If you don’t have sex, you won’t die (that makes it a habit) I think the discrimination spectrum is getting too wide.
      I have read in liberal publication that CHILD MOLESTERS have “feelings” for their victims. They even try to scientifically justify the perverts actions.
      I think this will be the next group of people who will abuse the Civil Rights Acts. Since homosexuals can’t reproduce. I think they will jump on this bandwagon, in order to lower the age for sexual consent. To increase their pool of partners.
      Unfortunately if you open any kind of service business, you will have to deal w/this kind of bull shit……….
      Y’all Keep ’em Straight out there.

      1. CT Yankee says

        A florist shop isn’t a restaurant! Neither is a custom cake bakery. An eatery is a public service establishment. The contract is ‘implicit’ order-eat-pay. The bakery & the florist provide non-essential design services and the contract is explicit. Either shop owner should be able to refuse to serve a customer they do not share core beliefs with because those beliefs are significant to the service being offered.

        1. Mark Clemens says

          I agree w/you. If you spend your time and money to start and run a business. You should have the right to refuse services as you see fit. The law disagrees with this line of thinking.
          Both the restaurant and florist provide a service. Both are open to the public. The same legal thought applies to selling or renting property. I didn’t make any of these laws, just tellen’ it like it is………

        2. Mark Clemens says

          Somebody had a Muslim rant, so I reread the story (thought i missed something)
          Anyway, to me the most outrageous thing is the owner of Arline’s might have to pay court cost of some kind. Court should be FREE, except for paying for a lawyer or two. This might be a dangerous road. Charging for Justice………..

          1. john robel says

            That “road” was paved long ago, ask OJ , it has become a cash cow.

          2. Mark Clemens says

            How is court fees OJ’s fault?
            OJ did what anyone should accused of a crime should do. Make the DA Prove it. How about Zimmerman? He did the same thing. Was accused of a crime, defended himself.

          3. mohammedwasafaggot says

            What I meant was, “the presumption of innocence” depends upon the depth of your pocketbook. Anyone CAN fight city hall with the resources. The old saying ” life is like a shit sandwich, the more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat. It ain’t right, OJ was GUILTY. This flower shop is only guilty of living their convictions. MORE POWER TO THEM, I say.

        3. The Father of Satan says

          Tell that to the prosecution as they read the business permit to the jury that states the owner must serve all without bias

          1. CT Yankee says

            So the real issue is that there shouldn’t be business permits for flower shops.

          2. The Father of Satan says

            No one forced them to open a business …

          3. CT Yankee says

            What I’m trying to understand is if you truly believe that a business should be *FORCED* to perform any service some *POTENTIAL* customer desires?

            I do some ‘buying’ for my business and I get some doosies of requests. I wonder if you believe that I can use government to *FORCE* certain suppliers to provide goods to me or if I can be *FORCED* to provide goods & services to *ANY* idiot who knocks on my door?

            Because if you believe that either of those are valid then I want to know what business you own that I can *TWIST* to my needs, or what company you work for so I can yank them around by the short-n-curlies and grant you FULL CREDIT for your ‘enlightened’ attitudes.

      2. jimwilson81 says

        But business can people out who are not wearing shirts or shoes.

        1. Joe T says

          Jim………..has nothing to do with morals, race, religion etc
          just dress code…….per se
          I say if you run a public business you should be able to do business with whom you want to.
          Can you see a sign on a business door, no Democrats …or no Republicans, or no atheists, etc well if you were either one you would keep your mouth shut about what you think or do in life and go about your business.
          What do you think? There could be any number of reasons to use.

          1. jimwilson81 says

            I totally agree with you.

          2. Skip Farrow says

            This is just a campaign to destroy free enterprise. It’s called socialism.

      3. RMCSRET says

        Your exactly right the laws being used are RACE and RELIGION and not MALE on MALE
        or FEMALE on FEMALE. The age thing is aready moving, just look at the results in
        the courts where judges have said it is okay to have sex with a Fifteen year old
        or a seventeen yearold. On the seventeen year old then let the pervert run for election
        in the State House of Delegates and then have DEMOCRATIC VOTERS vote him back
        into office. Oh yea he had to were a beacon when he was release to campaign.
        This is the world of the DEMOCRATS WAR ON WOMEN.

      4. CrustyOldGeezer says

        But… “they were born this way.”


        A comment I find a wee bit short of telling the whole story.

        They were born to be nurtured by a loving family with normal moral and ethical values and behavioral codes of conduct.

        Lacking a two PARENT upbringing, or lacking either a Strong Father Figure, or a Mother with strong family values and moral codes of her own, they grew up confused by a lack of leadership, moral compass and intellectual standards.

        “I never needed a man in my life, and I don’t need one now.” is misconstrued as “I never had a Father and the lack of a strong Male role model in my life is what made me the way I am.”

        “No fault” divorce was a democrat construct to relieve any “RESPONSIBILITY” from poor behavior.
        Prior to the ‘change to achieve a political agenda’, Men that strayed outside the bonds of Matrimony found themselves without a home or family, but still paying for their needs.

        Women who strayed, found themselves without a home or family, and had to make do as best they could.

        Since men were the traditional breadwinners, they had to be punished to further the agenda, so ALL power was vested in the woman. She got the kids, SHE got the house, SHE got alimony, and SHE was permitted to use the children as weapons against the father.

        With the emergence of brain damaged youths not having a clue WHAT they were supposed to be, the democrats found another group to pit against all other groups.

        and the beat goes on…

        1. Mark Clemens says

          Homosexuality is a habit, not a birth condition. You can’t help what color or gender you are born, but you pick who you have sex with. Most homosexuals are the boys who couldn’t get a girl to date them in High School or College. So they tried homo sex to fill the lonely void……..maybe

          1. CrustyOldGeezer says

            As a direct result of not living in a two parent home with a strong male role model, as well as a strong female role model so both boys and girls have a clue how men and women are supposed to act as productive members of society.

            By college it is an outright declaration of war against the Society that golds no value in their eyes..

          2. mohammedwasafaggot says

            Yup, take Ann Heche for example, from men to Ellen Degenerate to men. Clearly she has made a choice, neither bisexual or homosexual, she is a TRYSEXUAL, she’ll try anything. Pure hedonism, that’s okay with me in the privacy of your own closet.

    2. Rick Rogers says

      I keep hearing that over and over again.. How about you give me a list of these so called Freedoms you think we have lost.. Cause I just checked the constitution and I don’t see of them with Big Red Lines drawn though them.

      1. RMCSRET says

        Freedom of Religion, look at Duke University. Freedom of Speech look at the new
        Hate Speech laws that Eric Holder has gotten implemented. Should I keep going?

        1. Rick Rogers says

          Yea you might want to because I live about an 1 hour from Duke and have a cousin that goes there. I have not seen or read anything about a Freedom of Religion issue there. Also don’t want to have to completely disagree with you but Eric Holder can’t Implement anything. He can make is views known and if he thinks an existing law covers a crime he can test that, but the courts and judges are the ones that say if his interpretation is right or wrong.

      2. mac12sam12 says

        Three of the five points of the 1st amendment have been under attack. Hobby Lobby, Freedom of speech, the IRS, and freedom of the press. The government through the Patriot Act have a search warrant for every American citizen without a judges approval. They are also pounding away at the 2nd amendment.

        1. Rick Rogers says

          Ok Mac12sam12 I am going to give you the respect you deserve since you answer. here are my replies to each one.

          Hobby Lobby… This should have been thrown out of the Supreme Court. Companies don’t have religions. When A company dies it does not have an afterlife. If Hobby Lobby is so concerned about it why did their 401k have the Drug Companies stock in it that made the drugs they were complaining about. Its ok to profit from those drugs but not allow your employees to use them? If abortion is such an issue for them why do they do business with China that has FORCED abortion.
          As for the owners Freedoms.. When you incorporate a business its for the protection or your personal assets.. So if I slip and fall on a wetspot that is not clearly marked in a Hobby Lobby and break my Arm I have to sue the company not the owners. So they give up that claim that it violates their freedom of Religion because just as they have no liability they should have no option to force their Religious choices on their employees.

          IRS.. Its not my favorite government Agency either but.. I am think you were talking about targeting. Well here is the issue. The is a classification for non Profit groups called 501c. When a group applies for non profit status and claims this then they have to meet certain requirements. http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Exemption-Requirements-Section-501(c)(3)-Organizations

          A 501C organization may not be an action organization it
          may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of activities
          and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against
          political candidates. 501(c) organizations are restricted how much
          political and legislative lobbying activities they may conduct and still
          maintain their tax-exempt status. The groups that were “targeted” were all groups that claimed 501c Tax Exempt status and there were more of them from Tea Party Groups because more of them tried and Claimed the status. In the case of Groups like Americans for Prosperity, and Crossroads, 90 percent of what they do is political which means they don’t qualify. That means they were cheating on their Taxes.. Your not going to endorse tax cheats right?
          The Patriot Act. was not signed by Barack Obama. It was signed by George Bush and when he signed it became law of the land. Some of those items in the act had deadlines and those items were allowed to expire. But you are not suggesting that a Sitting president should pick and choice what law he obeys are you? I seem to remember there is a lot of screaming that that is supposedly what he is trying to do with ACA and Immigration and no one in the Tea Party seems to think that is ok.

        2. Rick Rogers says

          As to the 2nd Amendment. There has been no bill or law suggested that would require you to turn in your guns. There has been suggested Background checks and Waiting periods which is what something like 82 % of the American People Agree with. Mac12sam12 if they wanted your guns they would not have to ban them. All they would have to do is pass a law that requires a license to pay AMMO for those guns.. No license no ammo. So you can keep your guns. Every time a democratic candidate runs this “He’s coming for your guns” gets broken out.. Clinton had a Democratic House and Senate. IF he wanted the guns he could have had the law passed. Obama had 2 years of Democratic congress.. He did not move on your guns. The NRA does not care or work for you. The NRA works for the gun Manufactures. When I was in service I took every chance I could get to go to the range. (That practice saved my life once) To me target practice was a way to focus. I still try to get to the range at least once every couple of weeks where I shoot bullseye targets and enjoy it. But I don’t have a need for a 35 round magazine loaded into an Assault Rife. I can’t hit what I shot at with a Glock 17 or Sig Sauer p226 Then Spraying 20 or 30 rounds without worrying about what I it hit if I miss is not a responsible gun owner. FYI.. the Picture BELOW IS NOT A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.

          1. RMCSRET says

            Hey Rick if you cant hit what you shoot at with a Glock then maybe you should
            not be shooting that Glock or for that matter any other weapon. Seems like you
            are saying you go to the range on a regular basis yet you still can shoot. Well
            sir I take pride in the fact that still after many, many years I can still shoot an
            iron site rifle at two to three hundred yards and hit my targets whether they be
            paper or animal. Please explain to me what applying for a piece of paper has to
            do with my rights to posses a gun. Why do I need the Govt permission. The last
            time I looked the Second Amendments states that no one should infringe on my

          2. Rick Rogers says

            maybe you should go back and Read what I said. I said If I can hit what I shoot at.. And as I said they had two years to come for your guns and no one made a move on it. But moving on Here is a quote from a Letter. Want to guess who wrote it? “We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety,”

          3. RMCSRET says

            Well Rickie maybe you had better check on the Congressional Proposals that
            were shot down and Barack Obama and his TOTAL ADMINISTRATION supported. Such as Ammunition bans, Why is the ban on manufacture of MILITARY STYLE Assault WEAPONS a matter of VITAL Importance. Gee if that
            is the case the FBI better bring forth a BAN on the Manufacture of HAMMER’s
            for Murder. Oh yea the FBI has actually documented that Hammers are actually
            the choice of most Murders in the United States, So don’t forget that Ban OKAY>

          4. Rick Rogers says

            I notice you did not say anything about the who the quote was from there RMCSRET… I save you the trouble the person that wrote “We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety.” Was Ronald Reagan..

          5. RMCSRET says

            Hey Rickie and let me tell you something I could care less. I am not so naïve to
            say that Ronald Reagan was unable to make mistakes. Mr Reagan also made
            mistakes by listening to and believing Democrats about Border Security.

          6. Rick Rogers says

            right Just like it was the Democrats fault we invaded Iraq, or that it was Obama’s fault that help was so slow to get to New Orleans for Katrina.

          7. RMCSRET says

            Yea and just like it was a Republicans fault that we invaded Libya from the Air
            and helped killed its legal ruler. It was another Republicans fault that a lie
            was perpetrated stating that a Film was the cause of Benghazi. It is a
            Republicans fault that IRAN will soon have a Nuclear Weapon to threaten the
            Middle East and the World. It was a Republicans fault that Korean is expanding
            its Nuclear Arsenal every day. Would you like to keep going Rick. I have

          8. Rick Rogers says

            Actually in each case yes it was. Because the Republican President so over Taxed our Military that the American people would not tolerate another Mid east Ground war. You need to get over the Benghazi thing.. Someone was ask a question and gave an answer based on info that had at the time. And Yes it was a Republican fault that Iran has the equipment because HALIBURTON (you know the company Cheney has all the stock in) sold Iran some of the equipment that was needed for that project.

          9. RMCSRET says

            Well gee RICKY it seems to me that BARACK OBAMA was the President when
            Libya was attacked. It was also Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton who pushed
            the Illegal Film issue. It was also Democratic Administrations who took Iran
            from a Monarchy to a Theocracy. You might also look a little deeper and find
            that it was indeed the French, Germans and Russians who have provide Iran
            with oil field Technology and Nuclear technology. So once again it seems on in
            the Liberal/Socialist mind like yours it is everyone else’s fault not the Democrats.

          10. Rick Rogers says

            And your so ready to blame the Democrats on everything that the REPUBLICANS Caused.. We had the Shah of Iran in the 1970 thru 1976 doing some of the same things we all had Saddam over thrown for. His Secret Police were jailing and torture their citizens. So you allowed a dictator who we only supported because he did not like the USSR. The “Bombing of Libya” was in support of forces that wanted to over throw someone that I believe was mention On May 6, 2002, then-Undersecretary of State John R. Bolton gave a speech entitled “Beyond the Axis of Evil”. In it he added three more nations to be grouped with the already mentioned rogue states: Cuba, Libya, and Syria. The criteria for inclusion in this grouping were: “state sponsors of terrorism that are pursuing or who have the potential to pursue weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or have the capability to do so in violation of their treaty obligations”. Oh.. And I never said Halliburton was the only one that profited but they did so while Dick Cheney still has some say in the matter. Or do you think its just by chance Halliburton got a no bid Contract worth about 39 billion dollars. Oh and last thing. It is really narrow minded to try and compare a few airstrikes against the Illegal immoral War that destroyed so much of Iraq and their People. All of which were done for Profit and for oil. And There is more then enough proof that it was done for oil and nothing else.

          11. RMCSRET says

            I do not only blame Democrats for everything. There are Republicans who also
            who should be held accountable for things, but do we hear in the MSM anything
            about Democratic Failings on the scale that we hear Republican Failings? The
            answer to that is a BIG NO. If you would look at the time frame you provided you
            will see DEMOCRATIC finger prints both in Congress and White House. Secondly
            in the Bolton warning you might also look at the fact that Barack Obama is
            opening RELATIONS WITH CUBA, one of those mentioned by Bolton. The
            Bombing of Libya was not only supported but URGED by HILLARY CLINTON.
            The reasoning was that it was in support of the EUROPEANS. You might also
            want to go back and look at the facts about Haliburton. Dick Cheney was
            not even apart of the Company at the time. A few Airstries, once again your
            lack of knowledge is over whelming. The Destruct of the GOVERNMENT of
            LIBYA is still going on. You say Iraq was done for oil, yet the oil coming out
            of IRAQ does not come to the U.S.. The majority goes to Europe and
            the FAR EAST (CHINA). The funny thing is the oil coming out of Libya goes
            almost entirely to the Europeans for which once again Hillary Clinton pushed
            to have military action started. Oh Yea Hillary Clinton is a DEMOCRAT, correct?

          12. Rick Rogers says

            You can make all the excuses you want. 39 billion dollars was given to Haliburton on a NO BID contract by the Bush Clan. Cheney had been Vice President for not even a month when he commissioned a Energy Dept study on how long and how much it would cost it would take to get the Iraq Oil Fields up and running. 8 months before 9/11

          13. RMCSRET says

            Ricky, Ricky it seems that your attention span is leaving quickly. I did not know
            Iraq was having difficulty running there Oil Fields before 9/11. In fact if the Oil
            fields where so big a deal why would we have invaded in the first place and
            secondly why have we not gotten any of that foul Iraqi Oil? Now also tell me
            who other than Haliburton would have gotten this contract?

          14. Rick Rogers says

            Love the way you selective Edit my statements. .So lets lay it out simply.. Jan 20 2001, Bush and Cheney Take office. No “war on Terrorism” at the time. No hostilities with Iraq besides Sabre rattling that has been going on for years. NO reason to Invade. Around a month Later Cheney Commission report on how fast American Companies can get the oil fields up and Running. 9/11 has not happen yet. No invasion of Iraq has been suggested by anyone in the Administration but yet he commissions a report that could only be useful if they WERE Planning an invasion. So its pretty clear what their goals were. Justify a War with Iraq. Now answer to your question Who other than Haliburton. Guess we will never know but THEY DID NOT ALLOW BIDDING ON THE CONTRACT.

          15. RMCSRET says

            Well once again Ricky you seem to leave out a FEW RELATIVE FACTS.
            1. There was an Embargo on Iraq at the time.
            2. There was a NO FLY ZONE that was being enforced by oops U.S. WARPLANES during this same period of time.
            3. STANDARD Policy for the Pentagon is in areas of the world like this is
            to fully update WAR PLANNING on a constant basis.
            4. The planning for the oil filed was done so that the EUROPEANS would not
            be put off since 90% of that oil goes into EUROPE.
            Guess you will never know eh, well if you were to really look Haliburton took the
            so called no bid contract and then farmed it out to sub-contractors who then
            provided the services. The Primary service that Haliburton provided was for
            delivery of fuel etc for U.S. Military and the primary reason behind the
            award of that contract was the fact that Haliburton already had assets in that
            theater and could stand up quickly if required.

          16. Rick Rogers says

            and the embargo with CUBA and the Frozen relations have worked out so well Right?

          17. Rick Rogers says

            Really thats your comparison.. tell you what when someone walks into a Theater armed with 6 or 7 hammers and starts Killing people at random with them then maybe I follow your point.

    3. Jim Simmons says

      When did you last check, 1776? It’s discrimination and you know it and that’s illegal. Either quit that religion or quit that business. Quitting that religion sounds like the best way to go.

      1. RMCSRET says

        Hey Jim how about showing us in the FEDERAL Law where it says that OKAY?

        1. Jim Simmons says

          “FEDERAL Law where it says that OKAY?” You’re missing a word or two so explain please, what the hell are you talking about. Please proof read before posting.

          1. RMCSRET says

            My post is fine, show us in the Federal Law where it says what you are talking
            about is Illegal and Discrimination?

    4. The vanguard of socialism says

      How is this a loss of freedom? This is more freedom for homosexuals and groups that might otherwise be subject to hate crimes such as this! Shut your douche-trap and leave the thinking to the big kids!

      1. RMCSRET says

        Hey Vanguard sure glad you said the way you did, it just proves that you and your
        friends are nothing but a group of KIDS. Why not let the Grownups run the nation
        and you guys just sit back and keep your mouths shut like good little kiddies.

        1. The vanguard of socialism says

          Why? The questioning of your bullshit by a so-called-“kid” is interfering with your nonchalant idiocy?

        2. Durango 35 says

          That is exactly the problem. They have taken the power to interfer with other peoples life because they disagree.
          I personaly don’t care what your sexual preferences are. Please don’t flaunt them me. Keep bedroom maters were they belong.
          I think there is a confusion between be decent and ????????

          1. RMCSRET says

            I can agree with you Durango but when those same folks impact the lifestyles of
            the majority then they are wrong and need to be called on it.

          2. Durango 35 says

            I never told them what happened when I was 15 years old. It is my problem and I have no right to prejudice them a gainst a group of people because a minority flaunted their choice and interferred with a growing up of a juvenile.

    5. jetmagnet says

      Let’s see WTF is religious freedom? It’s another form of discrimination. No one has mention religious freedom since the founders. It has never been brought up in 200 years. All of sudden only rightwangers need religious freedom, as if someone’s stopping them from going to church or practicing their faith. They’re racist, bigots,homophobes, and muslimphobes!

      Republicans have turned God upside down with their so-called “religious liberty.

      God understands the concept of religious freedom.

      Republicans, on the other hand, just don’t get it.

      The Republican Party is seeking to enact laws all across the country
      permitting businesses to refuse to serve LGBT people. Approximately 200 discriminatory bills have been proposed in nearly three-dozen state legislatures.

      And if you happen to work for a company with pious owners, you may be out of luck. Companies owned by religious families have denied birth control coverage to women employees under the company health insurance plans.

      This is all being done in the name of “religious liberty.”

      argue that Christian florists who are opposed to gay marriage should be
      able to deny service to gay couples seeking to obtain flowers for their
      wedding. Otherwise, devout florists would be forced to violate their
      own religious beliefs by condoning gay marriage merely by providing the

      Similarly, Republicans argue that Christian owners of
      companies should be able to refuse to provide birth control coverage to
      their female employees, otherwise, these holy owners would be forced to
      violate their own religious beliefs by facilitating birth control merely
      by providing a company health insurance plan.

      This is all utterly absurd. These Republicans have taken the concept of “religious liberty” and turned it on its head.

      “liberty” part in “religious liberty” is not intended to empower the
      believers of a dominant religion, such as, say, Christianity, to give
      them the “liberty” to impose their beliefs upon everyone else. No. This
      is a perversion of the term “religious liberty.”

      Instead, the “liberty” part is intended to protect minority NON-believers to ensure
      that they have the liberty to maintain their own independent beliefs
      without suffering any disadvantages imposed upon them by the dominant
      these people are fucked up, and the more I read their bullshit, the more it looks anti-american fascism.

      1. RMCSRET says

        Maybe one so ignorant as you should first learn how to read and then read the
        Constitution of the United States of America. Then you might and I say again only might
        since you are so ignorant just be able to understand.

  3. fred says

    I think it’s time we “chipped away” at Congress and the Executive branch’s right to lie, cheat and steal from us. The taxpayers and citizens are about to show them who’s boss with the Convention of States!

    1. Mark Clemens says

      ……..Yep it looks like the 2015 congress is going to be another DEAD DUCK Congress.
      Did you hear Boehner’s bartender tried to poison him?

      1. James Maxwell says

        What, served him Bourbon rather than his usual scotch?

        1. Mark Clemens says

          I have Dish, so I’ve got no FOX News. CNN didn’t say what the poison was, or might be.
          I personally think someone trying to poison the Speaker of the House is a bigger deal than a week old shooting.
          Did you see the video of the Terrorists making a French Cop back his car up, real fast. Because he was out gunned? I bet France starts issuing rifles to their police shortly. What would an English Bobby do in such a situation? Throw his knight stick????

          1. James Maxwell says

            I was stationed in the UK (68 – 72) the Bobby and his night stick were all that
            was needed at the time, except in special circumstances. By the time I left
            they had made the decision to arm some of the Bobbies on the street in some
            areas due a rise in crime. I was reading one of the British Papers the other
            day and that was again being discussed about arming even more of the Bobbies
            due to a rise in armed crimes and the rise of the Islamic terrorist crimes in
            the U.K. The rest of Europe has awoken to that fact it is only in America
            with the occupier of the White House that reuses to accept this fact and defend

          2. Don Berghuis says

            What would an American cop do? In too many cases, ‘shoot first and ask questions later.’

          3. Mark Clemens says

            Did you see the CNN roof top video?
            Watch it, forget your Michael Brown feelings……
            Just moments after the ‘Chit Brothers killed the Hebdo Dozen, they calmly walked to their car, reloaded, one even was yelling in the middle of the street.
            “We have avenged the prophet Mohammad”
            While dressed in body armor and ski masks.
            Don’t forget Privet French Gun ownership is very difficult at best, harder than ours, and the Terrorists ignored French Gun Laws…..go figure.
            What would you do if you were a French Cop? Wright them a parking ticket? They were double parked……
            Yes sir, after all of that most defiantly shoot first. If the ‘Chit Brothers would of been stopped there and then, four good people would be alive to day.

          4. BuddyBoy53 says

            Maybe it was just a bottom shelf liqueur served only to tax payers.

      2. curtis says

        It should be obvious to the ahole nobody except his paid for people and cronies want him there.

        1. Mark Clemens says

          ……….Maybe he was a poor tipper.
          All politicians are.

      3. BuddyBoy53 says

        Like Rome, politicians will start having to have tasters when they eat or drink. Tells you where we are headed.

        1. Mark Clemens says

          It would be ashame the greatest political idea the world has ever seen, only lasted less than 250 years……..

  4. WiSe GuY says

    The fucking nigger in the Whitehouse wants a moo-slum only nation

    1. Mark Clemens says

      You are a racist dumbass. Muslims probably agree with us, on being a homosexual is sinful, perverted, and is the devils pleasure……..
      Where do you stand, or squat on the homosexual issue? $5 says you agree w/the Muslims.

      1. WiSe GuY says

        Fuck you. you nigger loving faggot

        1. Mark Clemens says

          You probably would like to.
          Read a fucken’ dictionary, and learn some new fucken’ words. Nigger this nigger that, I bet your mama had a nigger on her back. Bitch Boy.
          I’m done here, one can only insult intelligent people.

          1. WiSe GuY says

            I’m sorry that you were born a fucking nigger

          2. Mark Clemens says

            We are all just sorry you were born, or scrapped off the abortion clinic dumpster.
            I bet you and Michael Brown were lovers………..Bill Cosby too.
            I saw a woman on TV who said Bill Cosby is your daddy!!!! And she liked it!!!!!!!!

          3. WiSe GuY says

            Where did you learn English?
            Ebonics is not a language.
            I don’t know if I should read your posts or correct the English within.
            Try using commas before your conjunctive coordinators, otherwise you inherit dangling modifiers.
            It is my guess that you write on a fifth grade level.
            Does your mother know that you are not in school, and posting on the net?

          4. Mark Clemens says

            I’m glad you took my advice and read a dictionary. I see you learned a whole bunch of new words! This might be your first post w/out the word nigger. Jesus is proud of you! Don’t blow it…………

          5. Rick Rogers says

            Maybe we will get lucky and someone will kick you in your Danglng Modifiers and keep you from breeding anymore .

          6. WiSe GuY says

            Learn English before posting, your barely legible squabble is showing your lack of education.

          7. Rick Rogers says

            Here is some English that was used up around the University of Virginia WiSe Guy… Eat shit and die. BIGOT… oh just so you know I added the Bigot part myself. But are you going to be surprised on Judgment day when you find out Jesus had Skin Darker then yours. And I will put my education and IQ up against yours any day of the week you SPOS

          8. WiSe GuY says

            What makes you think that I am white? Well, I am not white.
            Your assuming I am white, makes you the racist.
            University of Virginia? You jest, I am sure.
            Remedial English and Grammar are available for people like you.
            There are scholarships available for you slow persons.

          9. Rick Rogers says

            Oh and before I forget… Anyone that uses the N word on a regular basis has no education or any morals or ANY COMMON SENSE. In other words They should crawl back under the rock they came from.

          10. WiSe GuY says

            You failed grammar too, didn’t you?

          11. Rick Rogers says

            Where has the rest of us are Just sorry you were Born WiSe GuY

        2. Rick Rogers says

          Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.Mark 12:31.. So thank you for making it clear in a thread about Christian religion you break The Greatest commandment of them all.

    2. James Maxwell says

      What the rump rangers and carpet munchers don’t seem to understand is under moo-slum
      law the would be working hard stoning an choping the heads off the deviates in public as
      fast as they could. And the citizens would be glad to join in also.

    3. Rick Rogers says

      Really there are still morons out there using that word? I was hoping your kind (Pure evil Racist) had died off by now. There is this old guy in my neighborhood that uses words like that.. We all just shake our head and breath a sigh of relief because we know he will die soon.

      1. WiSe GuY says

        As explained to me by a Native American Wiseman:
        No one is born a nigger.
        Niggers come in every color.
        Being a nigger is a matter of choice.
        Hence, 0bama chose to be a nigger.

        1. Don Berghuis says

          Still a racist ephitet.

          1. WiSe GuY says

            There is nothing wrong with being called a racist, from a person that practices white hatred.

          2. Rick Rogers says

            You see wise guy (oh you really should change that Screen name because the irony of it is getting you laughed at). Those of us that claim not to be indoctrinated into the Tea Party and The GOP don’t have any sort of color hatred. We judge people by the words they speak and the actions they take. We would rather have someone that tries something that imporves peoples lives but fails then someone that tries nothing at all. And the only Hatred we do feel is torward those that seem to think the shade of the Skin tone makes them better then anyone else. Those people to us are the bottom of the barrel and really don’t deserve the energy it takes to type a reply to So having said that I won’t be typing to you any longer.. Do the human race a favor and Stop Breeding.

          3. Mark Clemens says

            You know Black is beautiful……….

          4. WiSe GuY says

            I never said it wasn’t

          5. Rick Rogers says

            Mark wouldn’t you give anything to see WiSe GuY face on Judgment day when he finds out that Jesus has DARK SKIN.

          6. Linda Lee says

            so is crackah

        2. Rick Rogers says

          So thank you for proving my point by using that word you are in fact an evil racist.

    4. The Father of Satan says


  5. Ronney says

    The last gay burial site I was to, was barren Hell weeds wouldn’t even grow, just goes to show ya how rotten these people are. And this Judge should be hung. People it is time to stand up and go after these corrupt courts and judges. I do not care what they call it discrimination, would be the least of their worries if they come into my shop. This country was founded on Christianity, not some law protecting a good for nothing faggot. Sharks probably wouldn’t even eat them.

    1. Rick Rogers says

      Hey Ronney.. Do me a favor.. Can you quote me the part in the Constitution that says this country was founded on Christianity.. I seem to have missed that part in all the times I have read it. Oh and could you tell exactly what John Adams, James Madison, And Thomas Jefferson actually mean when all of them said that the United States was not a Christian Nation. There are plenty of quotes out there of them saying pretty much that exact Thing.. So forgive me if I take the words of the Founding Fathers over one that is pretty clearly an unchristian like EVIL Bigot.

      1. kotoc says

        Rick Rogers… I hope you feel comfortable with your opinion enough to aver that with your Maker when your last day is at hand… justify your reasoning, and tell HIM that you were the one who is right.

        1. Rick Rogers says

          I am perfect ok with what I believe and who I am. I don’t think I will have much to answer because I follow the golden rule not the Rule of he who has the gold makes the rules. No Wiseguy the Bigot He should install a Sauna in his house. He might need to get use to HOT places.

          1. kotoc says

            Ok, Rick… I see better now what you’re saying, and yes… I can agree. My apologies. There is one little phrase that I grew up with that I still refuse to part with, though… “One Nation, Under God…” in our pledge of allegiance. I hope you feel the same way.

          2. Rick Rogers says

            I understand but I learned a The Pledge of Allegiance in a school in Maryland that Used the Original Pledge that did not have Under God in it the one before 1954.

          3. kotoc says

            Sorry…. I was born in 1959… I grew up in a nation that WAS “under God.”… in Texas. I suppose we had a difference in how we were raised, huh?

      2. john robel says

        The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an “American Founding Father.” But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.

        Religious Affiliation
        of U.S. Founding Fathers# of
        Fathers% of
        FathersEpiscopalian/Anglican8854.7%Presbyterian3018.6%Congregationalist2716.8%Quaker74.3%Dutch Reformed/German Reformed63.7%Lutheran53.1%Catholic31.9%Huguenot31.9%Unitarian31.9%Methodist21.2%Calvinist10.6% TOTAL204

        1. Rick Rogers says

          Ok so what.. that does not show me were this Mystery line I keep hearing about in the constitution is.. so again SHOW ME.. The line in the Constitution that says the United States is a Christian Nation. If people or going to claim it lets see it in writing.

      3. john robel says

        Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
        Declaration of IndependenceReligious Affiliation# of
        signers% of
        signersEpiscopalian/Anglican3257.1%Congregationalist1323.2%Presbyterian1221.4%Quaker23.6%Unitarian or Universalist23.6%Catholic11.8%TOTAL56100%
        Name of SignerStateReligious AffiliationCharles CarrollMarylandCatholicSamuel HuntingtonConnecticutCongregationalistRoger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalistWilliam WilliamsConnecticutCongregationalistOliver WolcottConnecticutCongregationalistLyman HallGeorgiaCongregationalistSamuel AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalistJohn HancockMassachusettsCongregationalistJosiah BartlettNew HampshireCongregationalistWilliam WhippleNew HampshireCongregationalistWilliam ElleryRhode IslandCongregationalistJohn AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalist; UnitarianRobert Treat PaineMassachusettsCongregationalist; UnitarianGeorge WaltonGeorgiaEpiscopalianJohn PennNorth CarolinaEpiscopalianGeorge RossPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianThomas Heyward Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalianThomas Lynch Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalianArthur MiddletonSouth CarolinaEpiscopalianEdward RutledgeSouth CarolinaEpiscopalianFrancis Lightfoot LeeVirginiaEpiscopalianRichard Henry LeeVirginiaEpiscopalianGeorge ReadDelawareEpiscopalianCaesar RodneyDelawareEpiscopalianSamuel ChaseMarylandEpiscopalianWilliam PacaMarylandEpiscopalianThomas StoneMarylandEpiscopalianElbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalianFrancis HopkinsonNew JerseyEpiscopalianFrancis LewisNew YorkEpiscopalianLewis MorrisNew YorkEpiscopalianWilliam HooperNorth CarolinaEpiscopalianRobert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianJohn MortonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianStephen HopkinsRhode IslandEpiscopalianCarter BraxtonVirginiaEpiscopalianBenjamin HarrisonVirginiaEpiscopalianThomas Nelson Jr.VirginiaEpiscopalianGeorge WytheVirginiaEpiscopalianThomas JeffersonVirginiaEpiscopalian (Deist)Benjamin FranklinPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian (Deist)Button GwinnettGeorgiaEpiscopalian; CongregationalistJames WilsonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian; PresbyterianJoseph HewesNorth CarolinaQuaker, EpiscopalianGeorge ClymerPennsylvaniaQuaker, EpiscopalianThomas McKeanDelawarePresbyterianMatthew ThorntonNew HampshirePresbyterianAbraham ClarkNew JerseyPresbyterianJohn HartNew JerseyPresbyterianRichard StocktonNew JerseyPresbyterianJohn WitherspoonNew JerseyPresbyterianWilliam FloydNew YorkPresbyterianPhilip LivingstonNew YorkPresbyterianJames SmithPennsylvaniaPresbyterianGeorge TaylorPennsylvaniaPresbyterianBenjamin RushPennsylvaniaPresbyterian

        The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s.

        These signers have long inspired deep admiration among both secularists (who appreciate the non-denominational nature of the Declaration) and by traditional religionists (who appreciate the Declaration’s recognition of God as the source of the rights enumerated by the document). Lossing’s seminal 1848 collection of biographies of the signers of the Declaration of Independence echoed widely held sentiments held then and now that there was divine intent or inspiration behind the Declaration of Independence. Lossing matter-of-factly identified the signers as “instruments of Providence” who have “gone to receive their reward in the Spirit Land.”

        1. Rick Rogers says

          I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.”
          ― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

        2. Rick Rogers says

          “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.

          [Letter objecting to the use of government land for churches, 1803]”
          ― James Madison

        3. Rick Rogers says

          “One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”
          ― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

        4. Rick Rogers says

          “I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute – where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote – where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference – and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

          I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish – where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source – where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials – and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

          [Remarks to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12 1960]”
          ― John F. Kennedy

        5. Rick Rogers says

          “There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites.”- Thomas Jefferson

        6. Rick Rogers says

          “Lighthouses are more useful than churches.”- Ben Franklin

        7. Rick Rogers says

          “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in

          it”- John Adams

        8. Rick Rogers says

          “I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.”- Thomas Paine

        9. Rick Rogers says

          Is that Enough John.. Because there are about 100 more?

      4. john robel says

        Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
        Articles of ConfederationReligious Affiliation# of
        signers% of
        signersEpiscopalian/Anglican1429%Congregationalist919%Presbyterian48%Catholic12%Quaker12%Huguenot12%Lutheran12%Protestant, denomination unknown1838%TOTAL48100%
        Name of SignerStateReligious AffiliationDaniel CarrollMarylandCatholicAndrew AdamsConnecticutCongregationalistRichard HutsonSouth CarolinaCongregationalistSamuel AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalistJosiah BartlettNew HampshireCongregationalistWilliam ElleryRhode IslandCongregationalistJohn HancockMassachusettsCongregationalistSamuel HuntingtonConnecticutCongregationalistRoger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalistOliver WolcottConnecticutCongregationalistThomas Heyward Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalianJohn PennNorth CarolinaEpiscopalianFrancis Lightfoot LeeVirginiaEpiscopalianRichard Henry LeeVirginiaEpiscopalianFrancis LewisNew YorkEpiscopalianElbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalianJohn BanisterVirginiaEpiscopalianJames DuaneNew YorkEpiscopalianEdward LangworthyGeorgiaEpiscopalianGouverneur MorrisNew YorkEpiscopalianNicholas Van DykeDelawareEpiscopalianRobert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianCornelius HarnettNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian (Deist)John DickinsonDelawareQuaker; EpiscopalianHenry LaurensSouth CarolinaHuguenotJohn HansonMarylandLutheranThomas McKeanDelawarePresbyterianJohn WitherspoonNew JerseyPresbyterianJohn WaltonGeorgiaPresbyterianNathaniel ScudderNew JerseyPresbyterianWilliam ClinganPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknownJoseph ReedPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknownDaniel RoberdeauPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknownJonathan Bayard SmithPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknownFrancis DanaMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknownSamuel HoltenMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknownJames LovellMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknownHenry MarchantRhode IslandProtestant, denomination unknownJohn CollinsRhode IslandProtestant, denomination unknownThomas AdamsVirginiaProtestant, denomination unknownJohn HarvieVirginiaProtestant, denomination unknownJohn MathewsSouth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknownWilliam Henry DraytonSouth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknownWilliam DuerNew YorkProtestant, denomination unknownTitus HosmerConnecticutProtestant, denomination unknownEdward TelfairGeorgiaProtestant, denomination unknownJohn Wentworth Jr.New HampshireProtestant, denomination unknownJohn WilliamsNorth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknown

        Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the
        Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the
        Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America

        There were 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 at which the U.S. Constitution was drafted and signed. All participated in the proceedings which resulted in the Constitution, but only 39 of these delegates were actually signers of the document.

        From: Robert G. Ferris (editor), Signers of the Constitution: Historic Places Commemorating the Signing of the Constitution, published by the United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service: Washington, D.C. (revised edition 1976), page 138:

        Most of the [signers of the Constitution] married and fathered children. Sherman sired the largest family, numbering 15 by two wives… Three (Baldwin, Gilman, and Jenifer) were lifetime bachelors. In terms of religious affiliation, the men mirrored the overwhelmingly Protestant character of American religious life at the time and were members of various denominations. Only two, Carroll and Fitzsimons, were Roman Catholics. Religious Affiliation# of
        delegates% of
        delegatesEpiscopalian/Anglican3156.4%Presbyterian1629.1%Congregationalist814.5%Quaker35.5%Catholic23.6%Methodist23.6%Lutheran23.6%Dutch Reformed23.6%TOTAL55100%
        Name of SignerStateReligious AffiliationDaniel CarrollMarylandCatholicThomas FitzsimonsPennsylvaniaCatholicRoger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalistNathaniel GorhamMassachusettsCongregationalistJohn LangdonNew HampshireCongregationalistNicholas GilmanNew HampshireCongregationalistAbraham BaldwinGeorgiaCongregationalist; EpiscopalianWilliam Samuel JohnsonConnecticutEpiscopalian; PresbyterianJames Madison Jr.VirginiaEpiscopalianGeorge ReadDelawareEpiscopalianDaniel of St. Thomas JeniferMarylandEpiscopalianDavid BrearlyNew JerseyEpiscopalianRichard Dobbs Spaight, Sr.North CarolinaEpiscopalianRobert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianGouverneur MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalianJohn RutledgeSouth CarolinaEpiscopalianCharles Cotesworth PinckneySouth CarolinaEpiscopalianCharles PinckneySouth CarolinaEpiscopalianPierce ButlerSouth CarolinaEpiscopalianGeorge WashingtonVirginiaEpiscopalianBenjamin FranklinPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian (Deist)William BlountNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian; PresbyterianJames WilsonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian; PresbyteranRufus KingMassachusettsEpiscopalian; CongregationalistJacob BroomDelawareLutheranWilliam FewGeorgiaMethodistRichard BassettDelawareMethodistGunning Bedford Jr.DelawarePresbyterianJames McHenryMarylandPresbyterianWilliam LivingstonNew JerseyPresbyterianWilliam PatersonNew JerseyPresbyterianHugh WilliamsonNorth CarolinaPresbyterianJared IngersollPennsylvaniaPresbyterianAlexander HamiltonNew YorkHuguenot; Presbyterian; EpiscopalianJonathan DaytonNew JerseyPresbyterian; EpiscopalianJohn BlairVirginiaPresbyterian; EpiscopalianJohn DickinsonDelawareQuaker; EpiscopalianGeorge ClymerPennsylvaniaQuaker; EpiscopalianThomas MifflinPennsylvaniaQuaker; Lutheran

        Name of Non-Signing DelegateStateReligious AffiliationOliver EllsworthConnecticutCongregationalistCaleb StrongMassachusettsCongregationalistJohn Lansing, Jr.New YorkDutch ReformedRobert YatesNew YorkDutch ReformedWilliam HoustounGeorgiaEpiscopalianWilliam Leigh PierceGeorgiaEpiscopalianLuther MartinMarylandEpiscopalianJohn F. MercerMarylandEpiscopalianElbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalianGeorge MasonVirginiaEpiscopalianEdmund J. RandolphVirginiaEpiscopalianGeorge WytheVirginiaEpiscopalianJames McClurgVirginiaPresbyterianWilliam C. HoustonNew JerseyPresbyterianWilliam R. DavieNorth CarolinaPresbyterianAlexander MartinNorth CarolinaPresbyterian

        Multiple Roles
        Of course, virtually all of the “Founding Fathers” had multiple roles in the formation of the country, in the broad sense that takes into account military leadership, financial sponsorship, various miscellaneous state and federal positions, etc. But there were many individuals who had multiple roles among categorie of Founding Fathers ennumerated on this page. That is, they signed more than one of the foundational documents (the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution) or they signed one (or more) of these documents and also served in the First Federal Congress. These individuals with “multiple roles” were: Abraham Baldwin; Benjamin Franklin; Charles Carroll; Daniel Carroll; Elbridge Gerry; Francis Lewis; Francis Lightfoot Lee; George Clymer; George Read; Gouverneur Morris; Hugh Williamson; James Wilson; John Dickinson; John Hancock; John Penn; John Witherspoon; Josiah Bartlett; Nicholas Gilman; Oliver Wolcott; Pierce Butler; Richard Bassett; Richard Henry Lee; Robert Morris; Roger Sherman; Rufus King; Samuel Adams; Samuel Huntington; Thomas Fitzsimons; Thomas Heyward Jr.; Thomas McKean; William Ellery; William Few; William Floyd; William Paterson; William Samuel Johnson; James Madison Jr.; John Langdon; Caleb Strong; Oliver Ellsworth; George Wythe.

        1. Rick Rogers says

          the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen

          Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary Annals of Congress, 5th Congress

    2. Don Berghuis says

      Nice attitude. I believe Christ said something about the one without sin being allowed to cast the first stone.

      1. Ronney says

        I believe those were his exact words, He was divine, I’m only human he will forgive you, I will burn you alive.

  6. BuddyBoy53 says

    Religious freedom is alive and well for Islamists and Muslims. It’s only Christians that are losing in America today…

    1. Mark Clemens says

      Well, push will come to shove. Muslims hate and KILL homosexuals in some Islamic countries. Who’s side will our the Government take? Lotta homosexual and Muslim voters out there……….

      1. BuddyBoy53 says

        When the Muslims take over, a gay marriage license will be like a star sewn on a Jews clothing in Nazi Germany.
        Beware of gifts from the government, they will be used against up you in the future..

        1. Dfm says

          Yes, I have thought this same thing. The gay people rejoice that they have won a battle, but will lose in the end. This is why gay marriage is being accepted, in order for the Muslims to know where they are. However, Muslim terrorists will kill for any reason, even when they do the same things that they say they are against. Evil does not discriminate.

          1. BuddyBoy53 says

            When people start looking at them like psychopaths rather than a religion they will get off their asses and start fighting this including the people in DC cultivating it with denial.

            Isn’t it funny how liberals demonize gun owners for wanting to protect themselves but want to bow to people that murder women and children?

      2. Linda Lee says

        our government is schizophrenic

    2. Beverly Miller says

      That’s true and I don’t understand why they defend the Muslims who have Sharia law and follow a man that was evil and raped young girls. Let them stay in their own Country and leave them alone and if they want to kill or torcher each other. be my guest.

      1. BuddyBoy53 says

        Sociopaths and psychopaths do not think the same as sane people. That’s why we have prisons and mental institutions. Now it appears we just send them to DC.

        1. john robel says

          LOL, YEAH !!

      2. Barbara Yeager says

        young girls????? they rape girls, boys, men and women and animals…muslims don’t discriminate….they take what they want sexually and it doesn’t matter if the person they are raping is nine months or ninety years, male or female.

        1. Durango 35 says

          This is complete misrepresentation and you know it. It is like saying children are being molested in the USA therefore all USA citizens are child molesters, are they? Females get rape in a country so everybody living there is a rapist, are they? People get kill hence everybody living there is a killer, are they.
          Have you ever lived in a islamic country? I have.

    3. Linda Lee says

      BuddyBoy exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. CrustyOldGeezer says

    I seem to have missed that part of the Constitution that gives government at any level to tinker with the God Given RIGHTS as Enumerated by the First Ten Amendments, conveniently named THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

    Had there been any indication that the Constitution did allow for ‘tinkering’ the First Ten Amendments would have been named the “bill of maybes”.

    1. Rick Rogers says

      Crustyoldgeezer. I understand what you saying but there is one thing you have to considered. NOTHING in the Constitution is stated as being “unchangeable”. The document lays out how it can be amended and it does not Bar changing the First Ten Amendments.. That’s one of the reason there is resistance to a 2nd Constitutional Convention. The first one was just suppose to patch holes in the Articles of Confederation. Instead they threw it out and started from scratch. There is a fear if there is a 2nd one the “special interest” of all Favors would try an have their agenda written into it.

      1. CrustyOldGeezer says

        Perhaps if you took your time to read my words you would come to the realization that I said “Governments cannot change the Constitution” on an ‘as desired’ basis.

        And I fully understand the fears that the current “Convention of States” movement detractors pretend is worth whining about.

        I harbor no such fears.

        1. Rick Rogers says

          I understood your word Crusty.. But you did not read mine.. THis Convention of States movement would be the biggest blood bath of special Interest groups this country has ever seen.. Example.and yes it is extreme but follow me.. The tobacco lobby decide there needs to be a change that says what Cititzens decide to put into their bodies does not fall under any branch of the Government. so that gets included then some smart Lawyer somewhere decides that means if they can’t control what people put in their bodies that means they can’t control the items people want to use and takes it to the Supreme Court. So right or wrong you just made Pot Legal in every state in the Country. Or The NRA decides the 2nd amendment needs to spell out that no one can limit the size or type of Firearm a citizen can buy. so you have full automatic Assault Rifles that anyone can walk into a store and buy. You can’t say there isn’t a cause to be concerned. A large number of the Actual bills that were past by the house in the last few years were put forth and actually written by ALEC.. A lobbyist.. So we have that Convention and there is nothing to stop those Lobbyist from getting their Pound of Flesh. I will agree with you that there need to be changes. This Tread that the political office goes to who ever spends the most money isn’t right. Its called buying your office. And last time I looked up the definition of the word Bribery it said Bribery is an act of giving money or gift giving that alters the behavior of the recipient. Now we have “if you vote my way we will support you next election campaign. “

          1. CrustyOldGeezer says

            In order for the ‘blood bath’ to occur, you need 38 States to agree to the wholesale destruction of the original constitution.

            Ain’t gonna happen.

      2. CrustyOldGeezer says

        Just to revisit your comments concerning the Constitution.

        “Congress Shall Make No Law” and “Shall Not Be infringed” are two phrases that set the bar very high.

        But to a corrupt politician with an agenda sits high enough on his own throne to be above mere subjects that are held to a much lower standard than they hold themselves.

        Their egos place them in a near deity position where the normal man would find the air to think to think properly.

        Which helps explain the sheer stupidity we find dribbling down from on high.

        1. Mark Clemens says

          That’s true, our standard for politicians is very low. None of these sellouts could of won a Dog Catchers race 50-100 ago……..

          1. CrustyOldGeezer says

            I would go for 20 years ago……

            The current crop is pure garbage except for a few newcomers.

            To be a democrat candidate requires an IQ of 56 or lower.

            To be a RINO requires a 65 or lower.

            To be a Conservative requires 140 or higher.

        2. Rick Rogers says

          Think you for you comments the only place I think we might not agree is who those corrupt Politicians are.. To me a man that has holdings in companies that will supply materials to the Keystone XL pipe line and cast his vote for it because of those holdings is Corrupt.

          1. CrustyOldGeezer says

            and to me, a man that has holding in the Keystone Pipeline is a Capitalist of the first order.
            A man that looks to the future and the needs of America to remove the foreign influence on energy related matters in America is nothing short of AWESOME!

            Keystone can carry North dakota Oil as well to refineries on American Soil as well as Canadian oil.

          2. Rick Rogers says

            Sorry Crusty, but to use your political office to Profit by the vote you cast is corrupt and a conflict of interest. It’s not ok for Congressman to enrich themselves with their votes.

      3. Mark Clemens says

        Will The New Founding Fathers allow us to.Purge?

        1. Fedup says

          I think 12 hours would not be long enough. It takes time to get to some people. How about an entire week?

  8. ROD38 says

    This looks like a nightmare. It’s unbelievable that so many judges are so wrong. How is it that Muslims, are allowed to keep their own life style, against all common sense social behavior, while business owners are forced to act against their convictions?. If we don’t change that trend, the USA nation as we know it is doomed. One thing is to tolerate and not discriminate those who are homosexual because of bad luck or wrong decisions, and other to impose their anti-natural and anti-social whims to the rest of Society.

    1. ipsd48 says

      Query: As muslim opinion of the gay community is well known, why have there been NO cases brought against muslim owned businesses for sexual discrimination?

    2. Rick Rogers says

      Yes because if someone wants to be able to buy some flowers and a wedding cake and they just happen to be LGBT then its going to cause civilization as we know it to come to an end.. PLEASE

      1. Mark Clemens says

        It could be the end of mankind. Think about it, if we all turn LGBT, How will we reproduce? Our little 3 million year stay, will just be another story in the rock. The world owes man nothing, it was here first………..

        1. Rick Rogers says

          Mark really.. did you have to get out your old Stretch Armstrong toy to reach that statement 🙂

    3. Don Berghuis says

      Seems to me that if the Florist didn’t want my business for any reason (my color, mygender, my life style, whatever—-then I would walk out of the shop and go elsewhere. If the business tried this too often, they woulde be out of business shortly. I’m Protestan and heterosexual, but I can do business with any faith or life style as long as I’m not forced to be in that life style. It isn’t my business to ask about your sexuality or religion if you ask to use my service.

    4. Mark Clemens says

      I have never heard of a homosexual wedding in a Mosque. I wish the ACLU would push this card. If Christians have to do it, so should the Muslims.

  9. Trisha55 says

    Thomas Jefferson fought against lifetime appointments of judges. He warned that we could end up with an oligarchy with judges unaccountable to the public. We are seeing the wisdom of his words.

  10. Thomas Dugan says

    We have to ask two questions here: 1) When does one person’s religious freedom become another person’s religious oppression? 2) Who is being harmed in this situation?

    It quickly becomes apparent that the denial of service harms the gay person as they do not receive fair service as a result of religious oppression. The shop owner would not be harmed in any way by providing the service for which they are in business in the first place. Religious bigotry that causes harm (don’t they all?) has to be pushed back and stopped in a country founded on freedom such as ours.

    As much as we hate to admit it, this seemingly minor form of bigotry is in the same category as Muslims attacking a newspaper for doing something against their religious beliefs. It is simply a matter of degree of the same intolerant thinking.

    1. Rick Rogers says

      Thomas Dugan.. Thank you .. That was the common sense statement I have seen on a site that is sorely lacking in common Sense.

    2. Lily Haley says

      Homosexual behavior is rebellion against God who created the purpose of sex. And same sex weddings are further mockery. Forcing someone to participate in the celebration of that rebellion is the real oppression. This nation was founded on the principle of liberty. The First Amendment is supposed to protect our religious liberty. There is more than one florist in town. Shop around. If you don’t like the accommodation s in one place, find another. The government should not be trying to destroy someone for their deeply help relationship with God and obedience to Him.

      1. Thomas Dugan says

        I understand that you and others have strong beliefs about this matter. That is your right. The reality is that every single one of us has their own personal beliefs regarding many different things that we may encounter in our lives. If we all used those beliefs as filters for every action or activity that we engage in, our society could come to a screeching halt. I could virtually eliminate associating with everyone else on the planet as I am certain that there is no exact clone of me that believes exactly as I do about everything. It is called tolerance of others and mutual respect for the rights and beliefs of others. It is how our society functions.

      2. Mark Clemens says

        I agree. I wouldn’t want to give my money to a business who turns me away.

  11. Joe T says



    IF THEY (muslins) believe the Qur’an/Koran……and you do NOT……you should be killed or dead as for as they are concerned. 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.3.85: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers…..from the Qur’an!

    KEEP BELIEVING THEY ARE PEACEFUL…..8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels:

    I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off (behead) their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

    The Qur’an was an oral text throughout the lifetime of Muhammad; it was also a fluid text. The complete text resided only in the memories of Muhammad and his followers. As he added verses and reorganized the text, his followers would rememorize the text in the light of the additions or edits. This means that the Qur’an was a living text during the lifetime of Muhammad. Certain verses revealed to Muhammad were later repudiated by him as “satanic” verses revealed not by Gabriel but by Satan. These verses were expunged from the text that so many had memorized.

    It’s plain to see Barack Hussein Obama has loyalties to this ideology that he can’t hide. It’s self-evident for many reasons; one of which is that he clearly avoids (refuses) to call the terrorists by their identity of followers of Islamic teachings, proven by the Qur’an (Koran) to be VIOLENT. For Manchurian* Candidate substitute the word Muslim.* This is occurring world wide at a rapid rate, due to verbiage changes by current covert leaders.

    1. skai says

      Joe T. Very good I wish more America would read evil Quran to know the truth about evil islam . Islam is NOT a religion but an evil cult. obama will NEVER condemn islam not matter how many innocent people muslims kill. either one another or non muslims Now see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

    2. Don Berghuis says

      Plain for you to see, Joe T, but not for anyone with a little sense.

      1. Joe T says

        I know….it has to hit home for them……sadly.
        This guy in the WH is a total disaster to all, not because I and others say it…it’s on the news 24/7 of his prevarications and a hidden agenda regarding USA and Muslims etc.

  12. papa doug says

    Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life here!

  13. kotoc says

    Y’all can boo-hiss all you want at what I think, but here it is: You have to make a CHOICE in whom you will serve…. God or man. Those that stand up for their religious beliefs are making that choice. God abhors the sodomy of homosexuality (or so it says in the Bible), and the business owners that refused service are standing up for what they believe in. Sure, they have to answer to MAN’S law, but it’s better to serve God and die for Him than be spineless Politically Correct wuss that bends to the influence of popularity and the pressure of losing what is only temporary. I choose eternal life in Heaven, and would also do as the business owners did. I would simply tell the ones wanting a gay marriage catering that due to my beliefs I was NOT allowed to participate. If the business owners were Muslim, would they also be punished???

  14. Jarhead says

    Chipping HELL……nuking away at our freedoms is more like it. Massive Corruption from WH on down…doubt me?
    Take a look at the VA, the IRS, the EPA, BLM, DHS, DOE, ACA to name but a few.
    Criminals are paid off when they work for the FED/GOV – – CASE IN POINT: VA lied – Disabled Vets DIED – – VA gave bonuses, perks, job security!

  15. Frick says

    If they do not want to supply you with flowers, photos, etc. find someone who wants to!!!!!

  16. skai says

    See what muslims are up to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

  17. richard ahern says

    Our Republic form of government has enimies in Washinton. IN GOD WE TRUST

  18. Joe T says

    Islamic reprint of edification of how it came to be…
    The Qur’an was an oral text throughout the lifetime of Muhammad; it was also a fluid text. The complete text resided only in the memories of Muahmmad and his followers. As he added verses and reorganized the text, his followers would rememorize the text in the light of the additions or edits. This means that the Qur’an was a living text during the lifetime of Muhammad. Certain verses revealed to Muhammad were later repudiated by him as “satanic” verses revealed not by Gabriel but by Satan. These verses were expunged from the text that so many had memorized.

  19. jimbo says

    Are the liberals really winning the fight against our religious freedoms? I think there attempts to continue this trend will not last. I don’t know of any stats that indicate that religion is dying in this country. I have to blame the individual states for giving in to the liberal agenda and legalizing gay marriage. What is working for Obama and company is the divide and conquer strategy he uses to destroy this country.

  20. Buddy Honeycutt says


  21. Gale says


  22. Linda Lee says

    The irony is that the federal and local governments are aiding and abetting Muslim Shari’a in inserting their religious laws into our own. WTF!

  23. USPatriotOne says

    These Commie/Muslim/NWO/DemoRat Evil Monster are pushing “We the People” into a Civil War II and anyone with a brain knows this…!!! All that is happening in our Nation is right out of the Communist Manifesto, I mean everything..!!!

  24. gutz22 says

    Ever since Barry The Bathhouse Punk slimed into office Christainity has been under relentless assualt.There can only be one god, the god of Goberment, with the Punk at the helm.

  25. Shauna says

    My comment is not going to go over well, but it still needs to be said…..Christians are going to have to fight harder, get louder, and push back…..I know quite a few, who always say, “God will take care of it.” then go about doing the regular fussing about the way things are going…*sigh* My question is, If it were your son, daughter, elderly parents, etc, would you let them fend for themselves? Well, God wants you to step up for him…He does it for you everyday……jus sayin…

    1. Fedup says

      You are absolutely right! We are letting them dictate what we can and cannot do. It’s time to fight back.

  26. phil62 says

    This is the VERY reason that the HATRED for the homos and lesbos will continue to increase until the balloon burst and all hell is going to break loose. They used to complain about queer bashing (and rightly so because it was and is WRONG) but FORCING their believes to override 2000 years of belief in God and HIs principles is really playing with fire. Not every Christian believes in only giving love and never making waves; many millions believe in fighting for their religious rights after they have turned their cheek a second time. And face it == we have been turning our cheeks the other way for FAR TOO LONG. And this is also the reason that there is less and less respect for the law.

  27. Fedup says

    Just start telling them you have other commitments that make it impossible for them to fulfil their request. Then suggest a business that you KNOW supports the LGBT community. Wedding? Nope, that date is booked. Flowers? Nope, too many orders to fulfil to accommodate you. T-Shirts? Nope, don’t have enough staff to fulfil the orders we currently have. Photographer? Nope, that day is booked. Cake? Nope, too many orders to fulfil and not enough staff to handle any more by that date.

  28. Margaret Longoria says

    Time to stop penalizing hard-working, decent people for an belief or ideology that they do not agree with. This politically correct garbage is taking away Americans rights. Go to a flower shop that believes as you do. This business has rights as well and should be able to practice them,.

  29. Richard Knack says

    Progressive liberalism is a cancer that must be excised from our country before it destroys everything that made the USA a great country.

  30. Francis Seibert says

    Will this insanity ever cease?

  31. WJMcCarthy says

    This is somewhat similar to the issue where Muslim cab drivers refused to serve people carrying beer, wine and alcoholic beverages because alcohol violated their religious beliefs. Do not know how that turned out. Might be sympathetic to the florist’s sensitivities. However, when you open your doors to provide a service or sell a product you do not get to choose who you serve under our laws and constitution. Especially, when the event for which the flowers are for are now a “lawful” activity in the state if that is true. I am afraid it is highly likely that the florist will lose this case.

  32. Robbert Hoekstra Azusa says

    Time to remove racist Muslim-Arab “christian” , anti America and home grown terrorist Hussein Obama from office, one way or another.

  33. MARYSWEET says

    obama is not chipping away at religious freedom. He’s using C4 and blasting it. That is unless you’re a muslim like he is. We must not give up our beliefs for an ideology that only teaches hate and promotes killing of Christians, women and children. obama is our country’s worst enemy and he must be stopped. He is NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN. HE IS KENYAN BORN.

  34. James Grey says

    Well well, so Billionaire, Democrat George Soros paid the PROTESTERS in Ferguson over $33 million to LOOT & BURN it! I believe he should be ARRESTED and put in an Institution, because he is CRAZY.

  35. william couch says

    The way I see it is that I pray that Islam gets control of the U S of A, they’ll kill all of the homo’s in the country….. Fox reported yesterday that they pushed 2 queers off a building to their deaths…. I LOL!!!

  36. adrianvance says

    The Devil hates competition for souls. It is just that simple.

    Google “Two Minute Conservative” for clarity.

  37. downs1 says

    You reap what you sow! America has sowed disaster and it will reap disaster in the near future! When you arrogantly turn away from God and go your own way, you are headed for a fall! That is true whether you are an individual or a nation! This nation has decided to go against everything God has said! The leadership is a bunch of fools! Remember: “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God!'” (Psalm 14:1) We’ve thrown out God’s Commandments, we’ve systematically disavowed His Son our Lord Jesus Christ, we’ve not listened to His repeated warnings from history nor from the present day prophets, so we really can’t complain when He causes this nation to be destroyed! The so called “gay” movement is no different today from what it was in Sodom and Gomorrah, but they didn’t listen either! You can bet they will be the ones who scream the loudest!

  38. The Father of Satan says

    “Barronelle” should have never signed the business permit that stated her business HAD TO serve all customers without bias or prejudice .. WTF .. she can’t read ? When the prosecution reads that clause to the jury that should be the end of the trial …

  39. satin85718 says

    These folks deliberately go around looking for christians and then go for the juglar.

  40. Keith says

    Religion is a constitutional right and shouldn’t be violated period! Homosexuals/homosexuality however is definitely NOT a religion! For someone to refuse a customer is their right as a business owner and they shouldn’t be punished or demonized for it!!! If you want to get real, Ive been religiously discriminated against now for almost 7 years and no one has helped me at all!!! People do not like my religion because of it being a right wing religion. Ive had my whole life destroyed, 3 attempts on my life have been taken and my son was even drugged when he was 3 years old. Funny thing the police where I live wouldn’t even let me charge people for it even when I had proof. Im not a criminal or drug addict, but the police where I live back-up/protect Anti-type groups. So eventhough they’ve made attempts on my life and drugged a child I have no help at all. Im sick of it!!! Why can’t I get attention for going through what I have been through instead of whiney homosexuals…..

  41. Rick Rogers says

    . The Constitution contains 4543 words.. None of those words are Jesus, Christianity or the Bible. If they Founders had planned on it being a “Christian Nation” don’t you think they Might have mention it in the Document that CREATED IT???

  42. Skip Farrow says

    I have no objection to “civil unions” but to call this a wedding is offensive to my faith. Leave religion out of government and then the use of religious terms is contradictory. A deviate is simply a deviate and has no other meaning, what are these people trying to force upon us. It is simply another lie.

  43. Jayde Williams says

    Heh, Im from that area and had never heard that story…

  44. JJ says

    The sorry part of the story is the gay person did not bring the lawsuit. Our stick their nose in your personal business govt. did. This story is a disgrace on so many levels, and not ONE has to do with gay discrimination.

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